KanoOnline Online Forum

General => General Board => Topic started by: moray on October 15, 2005, 10:53:13 PM

Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on October 15, 2005, 10:53:13 PM
You may be aware of the controversy surrounding the Catholic church in United States and Ireland regarding the sexual abuse of children. It is a fact that Catholic priests and in some cases nuns abused and raped vulnerable young children who they should have been helping. It is also true that spiritual leaders of the Roman Catholic church protected these child abusers and rapists. The Catholic church has been shamed in America and Ireland and many priests have gone to prison. The church has also had to pay compensation to the victims of abuse. I know Irish missionaries have had a heavy influence in the Catholic church in Nigeria. I wonder if evil practices were committed against Nigerian children. If yes, who will ensure these children get justice. Who will bring their abusers to justice. Certainly not the Catholic church who have turned a blind eye to this evil. It is surely the responsibilty of other religions in Nigeria to see justice gets done. Nothing can compensate the victims of abuse, but they can see that justice is done and also claim compensation from those who protected their abusers whereever they are.  [/list]
Title: Nigerian cotholics silent.
Post by: moray on October 18, 2005, 10:06:32 AM
Well , it looks like Nigerian catholics have learned to stay quiet.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on October 19, 2005, 12:03:41 AM
I don't believe a lot of Nigerian Catholics visit this web site. But, of course, if Moray had any sense he would have known that.

During my many years in Nigeria I met many hundreds of Nigerian Catholics. I never heard even the slightest suggestion of any of the sort of thing that Moray suggests in his wicked post.

I also knew all the Catholic priests and nuns in Kano ovet years. All I ever saw them doing was helping the Nigerian poor and teaching Nigerian children.
May I also say that the Catholic Church in Northern Nigeria always showed the highest respect for Islam.
Title: Catholic church and child abuse.
Post by: moray on October 19, 2005, 01:14:10 AM
I never said all catholics were like that. The evil ones are only a minority. I know many catholics have done good work in Nigeria. However, what I said about the catholic church in America and Ireland is completely true, its leaders did aid and protect the evildoers. If you think I am a liar, then read the online editions of American and Irish newspapers. The reason I posted this message to Kanoonline is because if such evil is happening in Nigeria, then I do not believe the catholic church will take any action against it. As I said in my message it is the responsibility of non catholics in Nigeria to expose and punish the evildoers. If you find that the Nigerian catholic church is innocent, then I will be happy, because it means that Nigerian children will not have suffered like children in America and Ireland.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Maqari on October 19, 2005, 01:34:21 AM
:lol:  :lol:  :lol: @ Mr Moray, You appear to have gotten the legal procedure backwards ! (one first needs a reason to investigate a situation) there is enough crime to prosecute as it is buddy, and no need whatsoever to invent some new ones.

the problem you referred to in your post is neither endemic nor exclusive of any set of religious belief system. it's a personal failure of an individual to triumph his/her reason and moral over desire and can be (in fact it is) found within any society regardless of its conventional princples.

at the very least though, the post was sort of amusing lol.

Peace bro, ONE
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on October 19, 2005, 11:11:16 AM
Maqari, all you need is suspicion to investigate a crime. If no crime was committed then no action needs to be taken. Of course there is other crimes that need to be investigated, but that is no excuse for turning a blind eye to child abuse. Certainly all religions are guilty of bad things, but the celibate nature of the catholic clergy makes them more likely to be child abusers.
Finally, if you think child abuse is funny, then you have a warped sense of humour.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on October 20, 2005, 12:06:16 AM
May I compliment Maqari on his excellent response. I myself could relate some very disturbing incidents I was aware of regarding Islamic Malams and female pupils whose parents had entrusted them to their care at boarding colleges in Kano State when I worked for the Min of Ed in Kano.
I would not for one minute ascribe the misbehaviour of these men to their Islamic religion or blame Islam for their individual human failings.
There is no doubt that many cases of abuse have been uncovered in the Catholic Church in America. The Church has in some cases dealt very inadequately with these cases. They do however represent the actions of a very tiny minority of the priests in the USA. In Ireland it is even smaller and a lot of it is about very harsh discipline used by nuns in orphanages and reform schools  which many people felt in those days was the correct way to deal with troublesome children.
What Moray is reacting to is the way the western newspapers and prees love to exagerate any issue which can damage religions. It is for example shocking how some cheap American and UK newspapers continually misrepresent Islam in their pages.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Maqari on October 20, 2005, 09:20:23 PM
Alright Moray, let us set the terms straight (clearly so) to avoid further complications.

First of all, I do not for an instance think that there is anything humorous about ?child abuse? whatever be its nature. Second, the practice shall and must be (for the lack of better word) condemned and punished accordingly when and where ever it occurs.

I hope we are clear? Now, what caused me to laugh was rather: the clumsy way in which you went about forming your argument. As you noted; one first needs suspicion to launch an investigation. Yet you failed to mention that this suspicion begs to be supplemented with a cause and or reasons much firmer than the inadmissible assumption that; if certain groups are known to be alike in some respect, then they must certainly Also be alike in all others, because this simply just isn?t true.

And yes sexual abstinence that is coerced from repression of natural desires could (and in many cases did) ?ironically? mutate into some gravely undesirable tendencies. And that; the many ?incidents? within The Catholic Church at the places mentioned afore are blatant examples of the problem. Still this does not provide you with enough grounds to accuse Nigerian Priests of the practice. Your point of attack is the principle of celibacy, which (from my non Christian understanding) does not always necessarily lead to ?child abuse? and when well practiced can be a respectable discipline that allows the practitioner to devout greater energy towards the service of their people.  


Assuming that by ?child abuse? you specifically mean those cases in relation to sex or (to be precise) Pedophilia. I shall add that: In decrying the practice I?m in no way pushing for one religious belief to police the other because it disagrees with some of the other?s constituent parts.

I decry it because the practice targets children, who are yet to develop any tangible understanding of the putative physical, medical, emotional, and social upshots of sexual intercourse.
Because of the terminal-damaging effects on the victim, as can only come from such inhumane abuse of position and power. Furthermore, sexual intercourse with pre-pubescent females is been strongly suspected to be linked with cervical cancer.

The above reasons then compel me to ask you; if your concern is genuine, what then do you say about our communities that often set the age of consent so low that it practically encompasses every single one of the concerns I mentioned?

Shouldn?t you be more worried about (for example) Mallam Musa who marries off his 11 year old daughter to the elderly wealthy local merchant in order to win himself some favors from the latter?

because doing otherwise will be the equivalent of saying;  "child abuse" is evil 'unless' with social and parental agreement.


Peace, ONE
Title: Catholic church and child abuse
Post by: moray on October 23, 2005, 01:12:58 PM
Maqari, I am very sorry for the accusation that you were treating child abuse as a joke. Clearly you were not and I ask your forgiveness. However, I must deal with some of your points.
Celibacy is a huge sacrifice for any human being to make, but I have to say that this strict unnatural rule has encouraged members of the catholic clergy to sexual perversion. There is nothing in the bible which prohibits sex and I believe it makes catholic clergy less sensitive when dealing with the problems of families and married couples. Normally, I would not like one religion policing another. However, the catholic church has only done the right thing when there was pressure from outside. You can read about this if you view online editions of Irish newspapers, or just put "Bishop Brendan Comiskey Ireland" in your search engine. I deplore the age of consent being prepubescent and the culture of young girls being married off. However, two wrongs hardly make a right. I am not familiar with the case of Mallam Musa, but if you are referring to a Muslim, surely this shows that the Muslims are not turning a blind eye to abuse in their religion, they are doing something about it. I wish the catholic church would learn from them.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Maqari on October 23, 2005, 03:44:56 PM
Moray, Thanks for the kind response. I'm glad we got that cleared.

I do not in any sense undermine the perversive problems concerning the issue of celibacy and the Catholic Church. however I'm not so sure that the muslim communities are innocent. the case of Mallam Musa is a fictional example of the situation not a real occurrance. but trust me, I have witnessed much more often than I'm proud of; a  prepubescent/adolescent child getting groomed and sent on her way to the dungeons of marriage in my own extended family. and YES nothing was done about it. so quite frankly, Yes. the problem of pedophilia is existent as much within the mentality of the elderly husband as it is within the mind of the lonely priest.

as you noted; Two wrongs do not make one right. but dwelling on somebody else's wrongs is; as equally distracting from correcting our own flaws.


Peace, ONE
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: _Waziri_ on October 25, 2005, 03:06:57 PM
Salam all,

While I find reason to agree with Mr. Hill on the "spoiler" attitude of the Western press when it comes to dealing with major world religions, their symbols and those personalities who represent the seemingly fainted glory of the faiths, I cannot help but to disagree with Maqari on the assumption that it is equally an "aberration" - on a very flat categorisation- to give out an 11 year old "Lady" to marriage.

This is not say that every 11 year year old can be given out on marriage ( that I may not be caught in the same pit on flat categorisation of peoples and situations). But the truth of the matter and according to Britain's official figures is 93,000 Ladies, below the age of consent get pregnant yearly in the country out of which 8000 are below 16 years of age. Last year my cousin told me how he met a thirteenth year old in Britain who had 3 children out of wedlock.

Here comes the question: If an eleven year old can have sex and conceive leading to safe delivery why must we consider it an aberration to give out an 11 year old out in marriage?

Yes, it is said these "kids" must reach the age of consent (18) but then what happened to  George Bush(Snr) who married the mother of George Bush (jnr) when she was only 16 years old?
Title: Catholic church and child abuse.
Post by: moray on October 26, 2005, 11:19:21 AM
Waziri, Even a small child can tell you two wrongs do not make a right.
It is disgraceful that 93000 girls under the age of consent get pregnant in Britain every year. I am sure alot more than that have sex or are the victims of abuse. But this does not justify 11 year old girls being forced into marriage elswhere.
If someone has sex with a girl under the age of consent in Britain, it is statutary rape and the man can go to prison, even if the girl was willing. Britain is far from perfect, but at least they recognise the problem and are trying to do something about it, they are not trying to hide behind injustices elsewhere.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: _Waziri_ on October 26, 2005, 01:33:01 PM
No. Moray. You are the ones believing that giving out an 11 year old in marriage is wrong. But what I sucessfully did above was to  question the basis of that belief which I called assumption. I may not likely  shift position until you provide me with a higher reason as to why having sex with or giving out an 11 year old in marrige should be treated as anything wrong.

Note that Britain may have her laws even though they may justifiably appear to be nonsensical to Waziri until when supported with higher claims. Note also that I did not support the idea of forcing an 11 year old into marriage but rather I stand for GIVING her out in marriage seeing no any speculative danger therein.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Maqari on October 27, 2005, 01:17:16 AM
Brother Waziri

I find myself utterly incapable of surmounting the urge to always respond to your opinions  :)  You are simply irresistible!

Shall we?
You remarked: ?But what I successfully did above was to question the basis of that belief which I called assumption.?

In contrast, the only thing you successfully did was to land yourself yet in another quagmire of contradiction, all the while failing to address any of the grave concerns I sought to bring to light.

I tried to stress the point that; I do not give two damns about where and how the practice of child abuse occurs, long as it does, that my concerns are solely and entirely rooted in the mental and physical consequences of the practice, that the molestation of an 11year old is equally (in my eyes) as condemnable in a Liverpool back alley as it is in the confines of a husband?s home in Zaria.

I also find it equally appalling and mind boggling that you question my reasons on the basis that; ?If an eleven year old can have sex and conceive leading to safe delivery why must we consider it an aberration to give out an 11 year old out in marriage??. This in itself is an alarming ?flat categorisation? a perilous one at that, because you are quite simply restricting the function of the female gender within our society to sexual pleasure and reproductive purposes. In the very same machismo manner that initially denied the woman the right to make decisions about the usage of her own body!!!.

This gives birth to many questions including;
1-   If an 11 year old can even give an informed consent on such life impacting decisions as Marriage and Sex?
2-   While an 11 year old is ?technically? able to voice consent, shall any sound thinking adult trust the 11 year olds mental and experiential capacity to process and comprehend the magnitude of what she/he is consenting to?
3-   The great Age disparities that are often characteristic of such ceremonies cause one to wonder if there can ever be justice and balance in such a relationship.
4-   (As I pointed out earlier) sexual activity in young girls has been linked to such devastating upshots like irregular pap smears, cervical cancer later in adulthood, excessive difficulty at child delivery due to poor or under development of certain body parts, undue suffering during pregnancy etc??.so are we to accept that since there are isolated cases where the above did not happen, we can qualify all 11 year olds to be eligible for sexual intercourse?
5-   Also while an 11 year old female might be physically able to accommodate an adult?s penis, does she posses the emotional development to deal with the many connotations that accompany it?
6-   Let?s not overlook the fact that social and religious settings often prevent a thorough scientific inquiry into the victims as exemplified by the condemnation of the US Congress of Rind et al.
 

 

Its amazing that you do not notice the inconsistency in your statements bro. would you please point out the difference between; ?forcing an 11 year old into marriage? and ?GIVING her out in marriage? because I see no difference whatsoever. Both you and I are aware that; 11 year olds in Nigeria are not customarily allowed the privilege to be as defiant as to refuse a chosen husband. And to ?give out? something suggest ownership of that thing. So why pretend that 11 year old girls have any rights to self determination? Why not just come out and say: Yes our society grants no rights to 11 year old girls? including the right to determine the direction of their lives.  

Another thing is (and this is absolutely besides the point) I notice how you repeatedly seek to find flaws in the so called ?Western? way of life and highlight them for me in our many discourses. I have said this before, and will continue saying it for as long as it persists; Maqari does not represent or advocate any cultural ideology or condone such easy tendencies. I simply take and try to use what I find virtuous, and denounce what is contrary, from the diverse cultures I?m exposed to, be it Western, Eastern, Confucian or Slavic, point blank.

And of course I apologize if I?m mistaken in the above assumption.

Peace, One.

PS. As much as I despise the bush Family (and would have loved your claim above to be true 8) ) I must point out that public records have the marriage date of George Herbert Walker Bush and Barbara Pierce (the mother of George W Bush) as; January 6, 1945. while a different entry has her birth date as June 8, 1925. Making her exactly one year the former president?s junior. You do the math.

Aright this is starting to feel more like a Trivial Pursuit than a convo? so??????


Peace ya?ll, ONE. mo? time
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Maqari on October 27, 2005, 01:26:16 AM
:D  :D  :D , C'mon admin !!!!!!  talk about censorship !!!!! who says P?nis is a curse word? I cant believe ya'll altered that ?????????? I think we are all adults in here right ?  :D  :D  :D  :D this beats me. Hey I challenge that. I want my rights to self expression  :lol:  :lol: I meen ya'll need to take things in context.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


I think the word "thingy" is much more vulgar than "P?nis"  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: _Waziri_ on October 27, 2005, 12:19:41 PM
Well Usman,

I do not know whether to accept your definition or assertion of what is a quagmire or not as my position above is very clear. No flat categorisation that all 11 year olds are the same regardless of other psychological and physiological considerations. This is the reason why jurists in Islam do not consider age as a peg but tenure of puberty and peoples culture.

Taking the reality of physiology and psychology  into consideration, we will find ourselves coming out of that flat categorisation. You will discover the truth that individuals differ and in that while some 11 year olds can, relish and exploit the most in the celebration sexual communion, marry, conceive and deliver safely, some cannot. It is therefore my considered opinion that a state will be wrong to peg sex or marriage to every 11 year old is a wrong thing as is obtained in Britain and other Western countries, since  in effect this law leaves them with 93, 000 "under age" mothers yearly, with 8000 below 16 years of age. I feel with these numbers I will be justified in my claim even when others find it an article of faith to disagree with me on anything debate under the sun.

Yes, there is a wide gap of difference between giving an 11 year old, who can willingly and joyfully give herself unto sex, into marriage  and forcing her into marriage. The gap is like two consenting adults having sex and one forcing the other into it.


You may claim that my information about Bushes is not correct even when you do not provide a source of your data though you may rightly claim that I did not do so either. But the truth of the matter is: Albayanu lil mudaiy wal yaminu alaa man ankara

Even if we do not find it easy agreeing on that I can find it exteremely pleasurable to tell the public how my mother married my father while she was 14 years of age. We are now 15 children out of her womb with my self being the 9th. But  within all these years she has never had cause to go to hospital before delivery, every thing used to be at home. My mother is now eighty years old and is still strong just like Aisha the wife of the Holy Prophet who married him at the of 9 according to some records and was able live another 73 years in good health.

Finally, it is important for us always to to try to increase the region of our mental independence by always putting every idea coming from the West or our mediaval past.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on October 27, 2005, 11:34:04 PM
I find Waziri's views on this matter utterly repugnant. They belong to a savage age which we should have left well behind.
A girl of 11 years has sexual organs fairly well developed so it is possible to have sex with her. She is however still a child and not yet fully grown in any of her organs so though some may find the sexual experience acceptable  many will not and many will find it very difficult, painful and mentally traumatic.
I don't suppose that matters at all to some men.
(The difference beween a girl at 11 who is still a child and a girl at 14 who is probably physically an adult is very plain).
In Scotland traditionally a girl could marry at 14 (and a young man at 16) though this has been made 16 yrs for both.
If you have sex with a 11 year old girl in UK you will go to jail for a very long time.
When I was in Kano I helped raise money for a clinic being run near Katsina by a Dutch doctor who was doing reconstructive surgery on little girls who had been married at ten or eleven, had been made pregnant and who had been ripped apart in the vaginal area in giving birth before they were fully developed in that area. He was doing thirty to forty operations a week and was running also a hostel which housed up to sixty of these little girls awaiting help. Most of them hasd been thrown out by their "husbands" because they smelled badly from a constant running issue from their wounded organs.
That is the disgusting reality of having sex with little children.
I would like to be assured that progressive elements in Nigerian society do not find Waziri's views acceptable.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on October 27, 2005, 11:40:42 PM
I presume the readers of this forum will understand what "thingy" means in the context of my post. I used the correct term for the female sexual organ in the post which was not indecent in any way so I don't understand why it was replaced with the word "thingy".  Surely  when a matter is being seriously discussed it is appropriate to use the correct terminology.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on October 28, 2005, 12:06:39 PM
This discussion has shown me that evil happens in all religions. However, at least the Muslims are accepting that bad things are happening and they are trying to do something about it. I wish the catholic church would learn from them.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: _Waziri_ on October 30, 2005, 01:05:18 PM
Quote from: "Dave_McEwan_Hill"

I would like to be assured that progressive elements in Nigerian society do not find Waziri's views acceptable.


Well I think this kind of label Mr. Hill peg on people is part of the problem of every discussion. It should be understood that an idea is an idea in as much as it can be substantiated and  prove beneficial to people, NOT necessarily labeled progressive or savage.

What I said is clear NO FLAT CATEGORISATION. I believe while some 11 year olds can conceive leading to safe delivery some cannot. But this is different from believing that ALL cannot or ALL can. This is the premise of the discourse. We have our societal norms and values and it is that which can be supported based on scientific realities that we are not ready to compromise. So Britain can have her laws and let us have our own.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on October 31, 2005, 12:34:37 PM
This is supposed to be a discussion about the Catholic Church and Child Abuse. Could the other people who are discussing child brides and underage sex please start your own discussion group.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: kitkat on November 01, 2005, 09:32:16 AM
Quote from: "Dave_McEwan_Hill"
I presume the readers of this forum will understand what "thingy" means in the context of my post. I used the correct term for the female sexual organ in the post which was not indecent in any way so I don't understand why it was replaced with the word "thingy".  Surely  when a matter is being seriously discussed it is appropriate to use the correct terminology.


I believe the forum software is responsible for replacing certain words not admin. I found out that you cant even even write Phagge (as in the area in kano) with an "fa" without running foul of the built in censor
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: mallamt on November 01, 2005, 02:29:33 PM
moray

the problem is that you made a very sweeping and prejudicial statement on catholics, that is why you are getting the type of response you are getting and also they may appear not to be addressing the issue you are raising.  You have to provide with your statement, facts and figures.  For instance what is child abuse? what are the different types of child abuses that can take place and which is specifically your interest? how many catholic priests are there in nigeria?, how many cases of child abuse have been recorded?, what internal policy/document or statement of the catholic church in nigeria sets out to hide/suppress child abuse in the catholic church? on what basis can you say that muslims do not hide/suppress abuse in nigeria? how many cases of child abuse do we have in nigeria amongst muslims? what % of child abuse cases do they constitute?
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on November 02, 2005, 01:09:51 AM
mallamt,
Please read my messages before you respond to me. I never said I knew how many priests and nuns abused children in Nigeria, for all I know they may all be innocent. However, if you had asked a similar question in America or Ireland 15 years ago, you would believe all the clergy there were innocent. The catholic church only reacted to outside pressure, they are unable or unwilling to police themselves. I know Nigerian christians are very religious, so if the catholic church is doing evil, it will not be stopped by catholics.
Also, I have no knowledge of muslims, but from what I have learned on this message board, I know there are sinners in Islam, but there are also muslims who are trying to stop it. Catholics could learn from this.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on December 27, 2005, 04:51:25 AM
If the victims of abuse by catholic clergy cannot get justice in Nigeria and it seems they never will, then perhaps they can seek redress in other countries. If the victims can prove they were abused by foreign missionaries who worked in Nigeria, then perhaps they can bring civil actions against those clergy in their own countries. If for example an Irish missionary abused a child in Nigeria and then returned to Ireland, they could be prosecuted under Irish law. The same goes for an American missionary. If someone who reads this was a victim, I would advise them to contact the Irish or American embassy, to get a list of solicitors that can help in those countries, or simply to get advice.
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on December 28, 2005, 02:33:47 AM
You appear to be completely fixated on this issue. Were you abused by a Roman Catholic clergy?
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on January 17, 2006, 02:00:22 PM
If anyone is interested, I have pasted a news article below regarding an evil man who abused children in Ghana, but was arrested and jailed in Britain under British law. So you see, it is possible for non Nigerians who abuse Nigerian children to be punished in their own countries. Of course it would be better if they were tried and punished in Nigeria, but if you people don't love your children enough to do this, then at least the victims can still get justice.


"LONDON (Reuters) - A 56-year-old man described by prosecutors as the worst "sex tourist" ever to be tried in London was jailed on Friday for abusing boys in Africa and the Britain.

Alexander Kilpatrick was given an open-ended sentence at Middlesex Guildhall Crown Court after he pleaded guilty to 16 charges ranging from possession of indecent images to rape of a child under 13 years.

Judge Roger Chapple placed no limit on the sentence to protect the public, police said.

Kilpatrick must serve a minimum of five years and four months before he can be considered for parole and can then only be released when he is no longer considered dangerous.

"He will be monitored, should he ever be released from prison, for the rest of his life," Detective Sergeant Nick Duffield said outside the court.

Police said Kilpatrick had sexually abused two 12-year-old local boys in Ghana while visiting a relative in the west African country during 2004 and 2005.

They said he also committed further sexual offences against another 12-year-old boy over a period of weeks in Staffordshire.

Customs officers arrested Kilpatrick in May 2005 at Heathrow Airport as he returned from Ghana after they found indecent images of children in his luggage.

The Crown Prosecution Service believed Kilpatrick to be the worst sex tourist ever to be prosecuted in London, police said."

Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: mallamt on January 17, 2006, 03:04:16 PM
I believe we can get hundreds of such stories on thw behaviour of some people in africa, but what I do not see is 1) the connection with the ctholic church in nigeria 2) what about the questiona sked by Dave how does this in put answer the question raised by Dave?
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on January 18, 2006, 02:21:43 AM
These evil people are to be found in every country. Many travel from Europe and America because they can do what they like in to children in parts of Africa and the Far East but they would be jailed for many years in their own countries if they did the same.
Perhaps Moray should also pay some attention to the fact that in some African countries many children are kidnapped and sacrificed for ritual circumstances and that this is even happening in London. At the moment the London Police are trailing a group of mainly Nigerians who have killed and dismembered children in London.
A bit worse than sexual abuse I think but I would not blame "Nigeria" for it.
Can we concentrate on the good in the world and the hope I will always cling to that  one day "Man to man the world over will brothers be, for a' that" in the words of Robert Burns, Scotland and the worlds national poet.

Dave McEwan Hill
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on January 18, 2006, 07:39:42 PM
To Dave McEwan Hill,

I cannot believe you said what you did.

I am trying to raise the issue of child abuse in Nigeria. What is your response.
You ask if I have some psychological problems, am I fixated, was I abused by a child. Either deal with the issue or keep quiet.
The question I have for you is why do you attack me personally?
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on January 19, 2006, 01:27:08 AM
The question I have for you Moray is  - where in my post did I attack you personally?
(Moray is a district in the North East of Scotland - where did you get that name?)

You seem to have missed the point of my remarks.
There have been indeed instances of child abuse by some members of the Catholic Church.
There have been instances of child abuse in many places, in every country of the world, which have nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
There are paedophiles in every country, in every profession, from all walks of life and belonging to every different religion.
We all know this.
I'm sure the Catholic Church is absolutely horrified at every case of child abuse it finds among its clergy.
Just as every decent Nigerian is horrified by examples of child kidnap and ritual killing.
Only a fool would blame all of Nigeria for this.
Only a fool blames the whole Catholic Church for the wicked behaviour of a very small minority of its clergy.
If you know of some abuse of children by the Catholic Church in Nigeria please give us examples.
If you don't, what are you talking about?
Title: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: moray on January 19, 2006, 08:14:29 AM
Would you please please read my comments before you reply.
I never blamed all of the catholic church for child abuse by its clergy. I do blame them for turning a blind eye to it and defending those of its clergy who abused children, this is not my prejudice speaking, this is fact.  The catholic church only dealt with child abuse by its clergy when people outside the catholic church forced it to do so.
I never ever blamed all of Nigeria for child abuse, but like the catholic church it does not seem to be taking the issue seriously, why not?
I have shown Nigerians through this discussion group that if foreigners abuse their children, the victims can seek redress in the abusers own country.
Finally, what is the point of mentioning the my name Moray. Does my choice of name affect this discussion.
Title: Re: Roman Catholic Church and child sex abuse.
Post by: Maqari on September 16, 2019, 01:16:29 AM
hey