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General => General Board => Topic started by: Dan-Borno on January 07, 2010, 01:20:54 PM

Title: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on January 07, 2010, 01:20:54 PM
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/busuguma/NigerianPilgrims.jpg)
I have been desiring to write my memoirs of the 2009 hajj which by
the will of the Almighty Allah i successfully performed.

the above picture should be my starting point before proceeding to
the most interesting and exploring part of the journey of faith as
riz khan once tagged hajj pilgrim when he was with CNN.

this picture, which i personally snapped was on the day of arafat,
one of the most holiest and an important pillar of hajj.  the three
pilgrims in this picture as you can see are undisputably nigerians
and from their tongue i can attest they are nigerians couple with the
fact that the car park allocated to nigerian pilgrims is where the
picture was taken.

when you look very well, you will notice that first pilgrim was
carrying 2 cartons of juice, while the middle guy was carrying
3 cartons of juice and the last pilgrim was carrying a carton of
assorted snacks and a carton of juice also.

initially and how the saudi charity organizations and wealthy philantropist
arranged it is that these juice is meant for the pilgrims and each
one for one, it is not expected that one pilgrim can finish a whole
carton of a juice which contains 24 pieces, but as you can see and
(may be Bakangizo) can also attest the greediness of our fellow
country men, i still cant imagine how they are going to finish drinking
these juice considering the time i snapped this picture which is
around 5:45pm when arafat was folding up.

my intention is not to embarass my country man but create awareness
on how we should be behaving whenever we go out to other peoples
country.

other interesting stories will follow with their pictures.

what do you think are the causes of this attitude(s)
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on January 07, 2010, 06:17:43 PM
Thank you very much, DB. Ai wallahi irin halin da naga mutanen mu suke nunawa abin da takaici. It is nothing short of shameful. I have heard of this show of shame at home even before I went to Saudia. Wallahi wani lokacin, kar kaso kaga yadda ake dambe da kokawa wajen karbar "sabil". Grown-up men fighting over dabino/juice/food that is not more than 5 riyal.  You see one person collecting and cornering a carton of juice, or 5 plates of food, instead of one, while some haven't gotten anything. Theere's this mosque close to our hotel, and they sometimes give out bread after subh prayers. Each person is supposed to collect a wrap, which contains 3 pieces. Zo kaga yadda ake kokawa. After Arafat/Muna, I came to our hotel to find out that the occupants of the room next to ours had brought out a "sack" of spoilt, fungi-infested bread, which they dumped in the trashbins. Which means they've been collecting, and hiding the bread given out in that mosque :( Why would you be stashing out food that you don't,or can't even finish?

Can you imagine that some pilgrims even hid some these food items, with the intention of bringing them home :o So I believe it goes to portray how shameless, indiscplined, and greedy we are as a people.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: gogannaka on January 08, 2010, 12:02:16 PM
Kawai lack of indicipline ne. Ni ban da abun mutanen mu,juice fa ruwa ne da suga da flavour,barin ma irin na saudi,ba wani dadi gareshi ba amma kaga bawan Allan nan na hoton DB har katon uku,lol.
Handama ce kawai da babakere. Ni ina ga shiyasa Allah yake bamu shuwagabanni daidai mu.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: maikyau on January 08, 2010, 12:36:32 PM
Allah ya kyauta DB

This explained the kind of ppl we are in Nigeria wani ma ko bazai shanye ba zai diba don ace nasa ne.Just take a look at our ruling class kaga mutum daya ya saci billions of Naira i keep wondering ko me zai saya,and atimes they  end up sending this monies to forieng land su mutu kudi ya zama na turawa.I agree with Farida Waziri da tace duk wani mai neman political office a masa psychatric test. Wallahi atimes idan mutum ya zauna ya assessing din irin halin da muke ciki a kasan nan you feel lyk crying,and d worst situation is an daina zabe balle ka ce zaka zabi nagari Elites sun riga sun yi ganging up selection sukeyi.Another prob.is mu ma lower class din baa bar mu a baya ba wajen irin wadanna munananan halayen ba. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Muhsin on January 08, 2010, 02:39:19 PM
Hmm. Nice post, DB.

The case in point is wider than you all think; its not only in SA our people unabashedly behave that way. We They do it everywhere. I am a witness of that show of shame.

It was during a dinner organized for Governor Shekarau after his re-election at Indoor Stadium. As usual, I was the tiniest fish there--actually invited by the Speaker's protocol. I was feeling too much "shy" and uneasy seeing majority who's who I heard of on Radio. I felt the real shame when its time for guests to "serve themselves". Plenty foods of types I had never seen were packed aside. Am sure as hell many of the invitees have in one place or another eaten that sort of food. But--wish you were not there--how they (many of them) started pushing, struggling, over-loading their plates and all sorts of hullabaloo over that food erupted. In minutes the floor was dirtied will spilled food.

I stayed beside, mouth agape imagining. From that day onset I never blame Almajiris fighting over "gajala". They inherited that from their fathers. Thus, if Nigerian Pilgrims do the same, again, in SA there is absolutely nothing surprising. Who knows many of them there? For example, who knows any of those depicted on that photo you pasted here? Nobody.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: EMTL on January 08, 2010, 03:27:57 PM
Assalamu alaikum,
Alhaji Dan Barno- are you sure these hajjis were not intending to share these cartons with other hajjis in the camps. lol.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on January 08, 2010, 04:50:38 PM
yeah, you are right emtl, we should give them the benefit of
doubt.  but you are not a new visitor to the holy land,
you quite knew what i am talking about, however, what
do you say about this second picture?

(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/busuguma/Beggars3.jpg)

the picture above which i snapped after a friday prayer
in mecca at ummul qura road, shows as you can vividly
see two little girls, the first one in red while the second
one in brownish abaya, while the third one, though still
unidentified but the presumption is that she is a grown
up woman and in this, the girls mother.

for the information of my readers, they are beggars on
the street of mecca, it is either they are from niger
republic or definitely nigerians.  these people constitute
a great nuisance in the holy land.

as i keep on saying, i am not portraying islam or muslims
in bad picture, rather we should be well informed of what
our brothers, sisters, parents etc do at the holy land
without necessarily knowing.  It is still our responsibility
(as a community) to keep on enlightening our people on
the adverse effect of this type of life.

my next picture will be stunning, full of story and a great
challenge to saudi government itself - the raise of saudi
niggers.

watch out latest on monday.

happy weekend my brothers.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on January 10, 2010, 03:49:25 PM
What a coincidence! DB, I also snapped similar pictures (of those beggers). They are Nigerians. The woman you sitting down is the "supervisor". She places the kids in strategic positions, watches and waits until the kids were given sadaka. Then she collects and keep. While we were taking shots with my friend, one of them looked up, saw us, and confronted us. Ka ji irin zagin da ta rika shirga mana? ;D Saura kadan da ta kai mari. She wanted to physically challenge us. Ni dai na janye abokina, muka wuce. I don't know how to upload pics here, dana sako muku kun gani.

It is shameful. A Pakistani asked my friend what's the problem with Nigerians? Unknown to him, "bara" is an exclusive monopoly of northern nigeria.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: HUSNAA on January 11, 2010, 01:14:42 AM
Lol DB ai ni da na fara ganin hotunan na dauka kaine mai cartons ukun nan, har ina "Kaga Dan Barno da himma!!"   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
To Allah Ya Kyauta. Maybe if the standard of living of Nigerians is raised somewhat, they wont behave so atrociously. Kasan in ka koshi, da abu, ginsar ka yakeyi. Ni'ima suka je suka tarar wanda suna ganin if they dont take advantage of it, they will live to regret acting with dignity over scraps so they decide to be undignified; afterall "they will think ai ba garin uban su bane balle a ce kaico wane!! sai ka ce mayunwaci? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on January 13, 2010, 03:10:36 PM
Lol @ Bakangizo, ai ko kadan bana saurara musu. 
Lallai ma Auntyn Muhsin, shine tsaraba na ko? na gode.

Bakangizo, follow the following to enable you upload
pictures in Kanoonline or somewhere else.

1.  Go to www.photobucket.com (http://www.photobucket.com)
2.  Register to enable you log in
3.  Upload as many pictures as you can on your HOME PAGE
4.  Any picture you want to upload to the forum, the photobucket
     site will give you the HTML code as you choose your picture
5.  Copy the HTML image code and place it inside your post
     ...and its done.

Option B

Send me air ticket MAIDUGURI-ABUJA-KANO (Return), hotel accomodation
for myself and two wives at Tahir.

No. Option C
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: IBB on January 13, 2010, 03:26:11 PM

No. Option C

LOL, there is Option C Alhaji is call "Decline"

Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on January 13, 2010, 03:39:38 PM
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/busuguma/DirtyAfricans.jpg)
i took this picture at muna (mina), you can vividly see how
dirty the environment is.  i observed that almost all the dirty
places you see at muna are places where nigerians or africans
are occupying and those selling local foods are also nigerians.

i deliberately refused to put up the situation of our toilets and
tents.  this and other issues are the fault of the national hajj
commission and the states pilgrims welfare boards who cannot
adequately provide better accomodation to its pilgrims despite
the exercise not been free.

my observation is that, the federal government of nigeria should
scrap off the national hajj commission and states government
should also scrap states pilgrims welfare board and allow private
touring agencies to handle hajj stuff just as indonesia and other
countries are doing.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on January 14, 2010, 01:34:00 PM
Lol @ Bakangizo, ai ko kadan bana saurara musu. 
Lallai ma Auntyn Muhsin, shine tsaraba na ko? na gode.

Bakangizo, follow the following to enable you upload
pictures in Kanoonline or somewhere else.

1.  Go to www.photobucket.com (http://www.photobucket.com)
2.  Register to enable you log in
3.  Upload as many pictures as you can on your HOME PAGE
4.  Any picture you want to upload to the forum, the photobucket
     site will give you the HTML code as you choose your picture
5.  Copy the HTML image code and place it inside your post
     ...and its done.

Option B

Send me air ticket MAIDUGURI-ABUJA-KANO (Return), hotel accomodation
for myself and two wives at Tahir.

No. Option C

Thanks. I will try it.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on January 14, 2010, 02:01:55 PM
DB,

I'm really happy reading these from you. I have observed all these things and I, or precisely I and my friends, came back really concerned about what we saw in Saudia. In fact we are thinking of articulating our ideas/suggestions/observations and presenting them to the state government. Alternatively, we may publish pamphlets or leaflets on the critical issues and distribute to intending pilgrims as our contributions. Whatever, we've not finalised on what to do. May I invite you? I have no doubt your contribution would prove invaluable. If you are interested, I will contact the others. One is a HOD in B.U.K, while the other is a Customs Officer.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on January 14, 2010, 03:26:46 PM
Testing. Our almajirai at home are ably represented in Saudia by these:

(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae161/sanimuhammad/Myalbum1/Bara4.jpg)

(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae161/sanimuhammad/Myalbum1/Bara1.jpg)

(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae161/sanimuhammad/Myalbum1/Bara3.jpg)
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on January 15, 2010, 12:24:02 PM
thanks Sarkin Bakan Kline, i am very interested, waiting for
your invitation.

Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: HUSNAA on January 18, 2010, 02:26:37 AM
Those pics are disgraceful. Wallahi gara ai scrapping the Hajj board and let private entrepreneurs take over. Kunsan ma keeping the hajj pilgrim boards is just one more way of enriching ill deserving govt officials.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on January 18, 2010, 11:29:12 AM
Those pics are disgraceful. Wallahi gara ai scrapping the Hajj board and let private entrepreneurs take over. Kunsan ma keeping the hajj pilgrim boards is just one more way of enriching ill deserving govt officials.

auntyn muhsin, ki bari kawai, kinga, before the actual hajj period,
pilgrim official at least visits the holy land 4x all in the name of
preparatory to the hajj and in the cause of the travelling, they spend
huge sums of money as all expenses is build up on foreign currency
and in this case dollar.

after the successful pre-hajj visits Nigerian pilgrims still suffer with
no improvement.  the worst thing is that the pilgrims board don't take
cognisance of a problem and taking care of it in the next coming
hajj.

the picture below  is where I stayed during our stay at Mina, because
the tents allocated to us is grossly inadequate and cannot accommodate
more than 40% of us, this is something you have paid for.  Bakangizo
basu labarin irin ruwan saman da aka tafka, to wallahi half a kanmu because
the tent couldn't accommodate us.

(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/busuguma/RefugeCampatMina.jpg)

we have even reached a stage where you must see the Land Officer before
you are even allocated a space as you can see above.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Abdalla on January 18, 2010, 01:18:53 PM
I was privileged to perform the Hajj twice (2000, and 2001), though not as a government official ;D, but with the fruits of my almajirci. I even wrote a small book about it which I called The Pilgrim's Progress. I was prevented from publishing it -- or even excerpts of it -- because it'd tantamount to "dabawa kai wuka" as the officials admonished me; they'd rather I give them the manuscript so that they can correct the lapses I pointed out at a policy level. I refused because I wrote the manuscript in the form of a personal diary -- detailing every single process of the Hajj operation from Kano to Saudia, and the return process -- including the first ever demonstration by the stranded pilgrims at Makka and Jeddah airport (where we were dumped by Kabo Air for over three days). Back in the early 2000s, it was very common for pilgrims to be stranded for weeks at the Jeddah airport. Kabo Air – perhaps the worst airline in the history of aviation, next to Nigeria Airways (now Virgin Nigeria) – would just follow the instincts of a typical dan koli and dump Nigerians and begin to ferry West African pilgrims, and then returns to Nigerians (and those from Kano received the worst treatment). Funny, I would have thought Kano, then Nigeria, then West Africa would have been their priority; or at least they should stick to the schedule of arrival and departure. This caused so much problem at the airport that later the Jeddah airport authorities shifted all Black pilgrims to a disused part of the airport with little facilities – “ku je can ku karata!”

From my experience, the over-crowding at Mina that Alhaji (ahem) Dan Barno pointed out was actually caused by the large number of un-registered, and therefore illegal adventurers who crash-landed into tents that contain either Blacks or Nigerians. Many of them are "international", while others are "Tukolor (Tukaru)" who did not pay any form of tent fees and just simply gate crashed into the tents -- overstretching their habitation limits and putting further stress on health and restroom facilities. When I did the Hajj, the cleaners (mainly Bengalis) rarely come to the Nigerian side at Mina because it’d always be messy. So we resorted to using the public restrooms along the pathways of the tent city. Of course you dare not enter into the tent areas of Arabs – they have fierce custodians who shoo you away as if you are some kind of animal.

Of course the blame has to go on the officials of the Pilgrims Suffering  Welfare Boards. The ones in Kano used to be terrible; but the Jigawa ones are fantastic – courteous, focused and highly organized, which accounts for why many Kano intending pilgrims prefer to go via Jigawa. In Jigawa, for instance, they label the tents of “others”, i.e. non-Jigawa indigenes who follow the Jigawa route, which makes it easy to trace people (traced two friends that way, and kicked myself for not going via Jigawa). Thus a strict register of who should be in the tents ought to be kept, and someone should monitor it; but they could not be bothered to do that – everyone was busy shopping for one Chinese rubbish or other.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: _Waziri_ on January 18, 2010, 02:07:56 PM
The scenario as painted is quite pathetic. I think there was a time when FGN considered pulling out from the exercise at every level. What happened to that consideration, I don't know.

  On a different note. I would want to hear your observations regarding the popular "Tukaro" forming the segment of our people who live there permanetly. What we hear is they are living in a ghetto or a slum there.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on January 18, 2010, 02:43:57 PM
@ DB

Yeah. I remember the rain. What saved me was that we were among the first to get to Muna (middle of hte night). So we even had to choose tent 8). Amma gaskiya na tausaya wa wadanda basu samu wurin a ciki ba. It is a pity, and unfortunate. Wallahi tausayi yasa dole we had to make out space for those outside. We ended up about 30 of us in the tent.  

@ Abdalla

I think Kabo Air has "improved" from their previous performances. At least the criteria of 'first come, first go' was followed to a certain extend. But they do still abandon Nigerian Pilgrims, turning their attention instead to other countries. I was opportuned to speak with a pilot with the Nigerian Police, who's a friend to one of their pilots. He informed us that Kabo Air ferried pilgrims from Indonesia, Malaysia and Senegal. Probably why they were stretched. Hadama ce kawai. We spent about 24 hrs at Jedda. When I got tired of rumours and called a friend of mine to confirm to me if actually one of Kabo's plane that we were  told had left Kano and is on its way to Jeddah, he told me that the plane actually diverted to Dubai with some passengers. They just don't handle nigerian pilgrims with the seriousness with which they handle those of other countries. Talk of charity begins abroad ;D
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Abdalla on January 18, 2010, 03:22:03 PM
On a different note. I would want to hear your observations regarding the popular "Tukaro" forming the segment of our people who live there permanetly. What we hear is they are living in a ghetto or a slum there.

Oooh, you got me there! When I did the Hajj, I did notice the appalling conditions the Tukolor lived in -- including the pathetic sights of amputee children being peddled around by their parents, the runs they had with authorities who confiscate their wares etc. If they know you are Hausa, they ignore you – and target their begging at a more Whiter skin. To the Pakistani and Indian merchants who control the trade systems in Makka and Madina, all Blacks are the same, and rarely do they bother to distinguish between genuine Hajjis and Tukolor – preferring to treat all with the usual contempt of someone who is Brown. And as for the Arabs (Saudi and all) – their racism is the worst; e.g. putting a physical barrier between you and them so that you don’t rub shoulders during  prayers; ignoring you when you enter their designer shops (because they thought you can’t afford to buy Polo, Armani, YSL or Chanel items).  So yes, the Tukolor in Saudia (at least in Makka and Madina) live in ghettos, slums and are the underdogs; but then they do things no White Arab will do – wash cars, carry loads, and their women do menial jobs around the house, often leading harrowing stories of sexual abuse. Their often illegal status means they are worse off than Asians (e.g. Filipinos, Bengalis, Pakistani, and the new Russians from Azerbaijan).

Based on these observations, and conversations with a few Tukolor who came close enough to be interacted with, I started outlining a book on the lives of Hausa Diaspora, purely as an ethnographic account of how people live in a strange land and how they negotiate their culture and identity (although many of the Tukolor were Hausa, their mindset was rather different from your typical Hausa). This is actually a sub-set of another project, Hausa Arabs: The Arabs in Northern Nigeria that I am still working, and which looked at how Arab immigrants integrated (or refused to integrate) with the dominant Hausa cultural identity.

 A series of obstacles put paid to the project. First was lack of access to the Hausa Tukolor in Saudia. As many were illegal immigrants, they were too afraid to talk and thus betray themselves. Most hid out until during the Hajj when they emerge and mingle with Hajjis, as to the Arabs, all Blacks are the same. A further variable of this lack of access is their lack of structured research-based education. They simply don’t understand they have stories to tell that teach lessons about racial integration and tolerance, and how they could use new media to explain themselves.

Second was lack of funding. There is simply no agency that can house this kind of research for its anthropological significance – at least that I know of. Agencies sponsoring research usually do so on the basis of their own agendas – not the researchers.  Third, I don’t have the kind of personal funds needed to conduct the study (for it involves residency in Saudia for at least six months – a prospect I don’t relish, for once you take away Makka to Madina, Saudi cities are is just like any third rate American city, and I have had enough of those).

But availability of funds from whatever source is overshadowed by the first obstacle – negotiating access to the Tukolor. The moment they see you with pen and paper, they clam up, and often become suspicious and hostile. I remember drawing hostile stares as I walked through the back alleys of Makka – far away from the Harami – with a notebook and pencil, trying to record the stench and  filth (including a dead cat on a rubbish heap!) which contrasts with the false ultra-modern façade of the Harami area.

Waziri, since you are a whizz at obtaining funds (I have seen you in action), maybe you can take this up with some “big shots” who might be interested in a research for its own purpose (as a contribution towards understanding human nature) rather than as other means? The obvious clients are the Saudis themselves – for it will provide them with a  mechanism of dealing with foreigners, though understanding them. But their structured and institutionalized racism is enough to put anyone off.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on January 18, 2010, 03:49:26 PM
Ashe 'Tukari' ya samo asali ne daga 'Tucolor'. What does it mean? Two Color?

It is a pity really the type of life our people live there. Left you wondering why on earth someone would leave here only to end up living a life where he/she is a constant target of harrasement, rasism, abuse, subjugation.

Prof, you mentioned that you've written a book on the Hajj process. What do you think of our intention to our proposal? Advice.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Abdalla on January 18, 2010, 06:02:46 PM
@BKZ

For full information about the Tucolor, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toucouleur. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toucouleur.) I understand the term was used to refer to Blacks in Hijaz -- apparently because the Futa Jallon Blacks were earlier arrivals in Hijaz. Now it's used in the same way Americans use "nigger" to refer to any Black person in Hijaz.

About the book, yes, I think it is a fantastic idea. My own diary is quite dated, but I could contribute a chapter or so if needed.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: HUSNAA on January 19, 2010, 01:58:33 AM
@BKZ

For full information about the Tucolor, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toucouleur. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toucouleur.) I understand the term was used to refer to Blacks in Hijaz -- apparently because the Futa Jallon Blacks were earlier arrivals in Hijaz. Now it's used in the same way Americans use "nigger" to refer to any Black person in Hijaz.

About the book, yes, I think it is a fantastic idea. My own diary is quite dated, but I could contribute a chapter or so if needed.

Yr Hajj memoirs of 2000/2001 and what ever research u did in that area cant be dated at all unless the situation there has changed which from all indications is not the case. I urge that u do not selectively edit the material when u write it.Rather do a comparative study if u like of what was then and now and see what changes have been implemented if any, since the whole exercise is geared towards getting the concerned authorities to implement some meaningful welfare policies.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: _Waziri_ on January 19, 2010, 12:07:01 PM
Prof,

This is interesting and sad at the same time. On the part of Saudi Arabia I see a show of insensitivity inconsistent with Islamic provision (at least for a state which claims to be Islamic). For Saudi has only succeeded in creating black ghettos similar to what was obtained in the USA of the 1960's(drawing the line from my reading of Alex Haley's Autobiography of Malcom X). But while the USA has invested in liberating the ghettoed environments, to a degree, since the blacks are treated as American citizens, Saudi Arabia is yet to be seen making efforts to consider the ghettos and their inhabitants as official part of what makes Saudi Arabia. The blacks are still seen as foreigners. Or who says the country belongs to the Arabs only, especially considering the fact that Islam does not put a criteria for becoming a national of any nation on race or color. The Ulama there will not muster the courage to tell the leaders this hard truth.

Among the Tukaru I learnt are many whose parents were born there and still they are denied privileges, they are tagged foreigners. And it appears that the Saudi government is not ready to kick start a policy process that'll look into what these ghettos are and what to do with them. This is why they may not be interested in the type of research you may want to undertake.

On our part, Nigeria doesn't think there's the need to negotiate a policy with Saudi, that will make sure the ghettos and their ppl are seen as part of the Saudi nation/nationals. Nigeria doesn't have a defining philosophy  that compels it to protect  its ppl anywhere.

Also as Hausa, rich men here do not care. Even religious organisations and those individuals who wear religion on their arms and shoulders will not see this as a worthy endeavor.

But truly research as this you are proposing coupled with a catchy well captured  video documentary, for all to view, in Hausa, English and Arabic,  is needed for the sake of the information it can provide not even for policy guidance and implementation.

Well, Prof. if you are not able to generate funds for this work with all the NGOs and the abundant network of ppl you know how can a Waziri be able to do anything? Maybe Sanusi Lamido Sanusi will like the idea if contacted and help talk to some ppl who'll provide for such kind of research. Or Kano State through its Adaidata Sahu outlet.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Abdalla on January 19, 2010, 02:08:30 PM
Prof,

The Ulama there will not muster the courage to tell the leaders this hard truth.
....
And it appears that the Saudi government is not ready to kick start a policy process that'll look into what these ghettos are and what to do with them. This is why they may not be interested in the type of research you may want to undertake.
...
Also as Hausa, rich men here do not care. Even religious organisations and those individuals who wear religion on their arms and shoulders will not see this as a worthy endeavor.
...
Maybe Sanusi Lamido Sanusi will like the idea if contacted and help talk to some ppl who'll provide for such kind of research. Or Kano State through its Adaidata Sahu outlet.

Now with all these "maybes" and uncertainties, how can it be possible? Nah, I'll just troddle along on my own, hoping to be left some legacy from a rich patron ;D

Abdalla
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: _Waziri_ on January 19, 2010, 03:36:16 PM
Prof,

The Ulama there will not muster the courage to tell the leaders this hard truth.
....
And it appears that the Saudi government is not ready to kick start a policy process that'll look into what these ghettos are and what to do with them. This is why they may not be interested in the type of research you may want to undertake.
...
Also as Hausa, rich men here do not care. Even religious organisations and those individuals who wear religion on their arms and shoulders will not see this as a worthy endeavor.

...
Maybe Sanusi Lamido Sanusi will like the idea if contacted and help talk to some ppl who'll provide for such kind of research. Or Kano State through its Adaidata Sahu outlet.


Now with all these "maybes" and uncertainties, how can it be possible? Nah, I'll just troddle along on my own, hoping to be left some legacy from a rich patron ;D

Abdalla

Lol, @Prof  tis beta we start on a pessimistic note but I surely have some "big shots" I can talk to who may be interested. There is a possibility that we can even reach the Saudi embassy. But can one trust a Bakano with such a massive fund? ;D ::) :)

Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Abdalla on January 19, 2010, 06:57:29 PM
Hehehe! Ka manta mu ke da Kundila da Alhassan Dantata daDangote? Zariya ko sai rimaye kawai -- wadda sun fi matayen su alkhwari ;D ;D

I know you'd come through -- maybe we can go to the fieldwork together, since you speak Arabic and I don't!

Abdalla
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: IBB on January 19, 2010, 08:30:51 PM
Prof,

Among the Tukaru I learnt are many whose parents were born there and still they are denied privileges, they are tagged foreigners. And it appears that the Saudi government is not ready to kick start a policy process that'll look into what these ghettos are and what to do with them. This is why they may not be interested in the type of research you may want to undertake.


I dont think Saudi ghetto are any cause of concern for me. Because I think thats their own issues. We have our own problem to deal with here at home.

Dont you think the ghetto in Saudi is better than mud houses (that would prob not survive this Aug rain) in Kano and those pollution of open gutters, and those pile of rubbish in the centre of  inhabitants.

Well they would have come back if Nig is better.


Prof,

On our part, Nigeria doesn't think there's the need to negotiate a policy with Saudi, that will make sure the ghettos and their ppl are seen as part of the Saudi nation/nationals. Nigeria doesn't have a defining philosophy  that compels it to protect  its ppl anywhere.

Also as Hausa, rich men here do not care. Even religious organisations and those individuals who wear religion on their arms and shoulders will not see this as a worthy endeavor.


I wonder why should Nigeria negotiate with Saudi. This people choose to live like that, morever you dont expect another country to tell another how to run its country because its citizen migrate to theirs.

If you suggest negotiating with Saudis on how to bring them bck that will be great.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Abdalla on January 19, 2010, 11:05:15 PM
I agree many people would hold your view that they probably brought it upon themselves -- just like any other immigrant who gets rough treatment in a foreign land. But other immigrants in Saudia are not treated that way -- and if the Blacks misbehave it is because of denied opportunities due to their skin color, plain as that, and that's wrong.

I really wouldn't go far to "negotiate" as that is too political. I am not even interested in the Saudis or their thoughts on the matter -- they neither impress me nor interest me; and certainly won't surprise me in whatever they do in the name of racism, it's part of their mindset.

My original purpose is to document an anthropological story of a people caught up in a land that is not theirs in terms of their own construction of their identity and denied visibility (pretending a group does not exist because it simply could not exist in the community by virtue of its skin color). In studying Hausa Arabs in  northern Nigeria, I am interested in a masked visibility (wearing black masks to hide white faces) -- so you see, it's purely anthropological, not even social (in terms of remediating programs -- although the book/film could initiate remediating actions) or political (in terms of getting governments to talk) -- because as Waziri says, neither the Nigerians nor the Saudis would care about these marginized people; yet both could use them as internal ambassadors of goodwill -- but probably too blinkered to see beyond both their snub and hawked noses.

I really have no other policy implications aside from documentation. My classic model of sub-cultural analysis is Abner Cohen's brilliant study of the Hausa in Shagamu as recorded in his Custom and Politics in Urban Africa: a Study of Hausa Migrants in Yoruba Towns, 1969, and available at Amazon. So Waziri, go ahead, make my day; talk to your "big shots", and have a stab at contribution to knowledge!

Abdalla
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on June 18, 2010, 11:35:09 AM
DB,

I'm really happy reading these from you. I have observed all these things and I, or precisely I and my friends, came back really concerned about what we saw in Saudia. In fact we are thinking of articulating our ideas/suggestions/observations and presenting them to the state government. Alternatively, we may publish pamphlets or leaflets on the critical issues and distribute to intending pilgrims as our contributions. Whatever, we've not finalised on what to do. May I invite you? I have no doubt your contribution would prove invaluable. If you are interested, I will contact the others. One is a HOD in B.U.K, while the other is a Customs Officer.

Hey, Bakangizo, time is not on our side, its Rajab now it seems
arrangements are at top gear for the 2010 hajj exercise and
haven't heard from you about the 'concerned friends of hajj'
so that we could come up with something, at least a guide
for the intending pilgrims this year.

rumours is spreading that his excellency, goodluck ebele
jonathan is planning to reduce the hajj fare.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on June 18, 2010, 04:47:13 PM
Yeah, I know. I tried contacting them about the issue but couldn't get through their lines. I was told that the BUK chap (who's the spearhead) was not in town and is on holiday. I'll keep trying. But if you think there's something we can start, I'm in.

I also heard the rumours that Jatau Mai Sa'a would reduce the fares. Good. Even though it might be politically motivaated.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on June 23, 2010, 12:01:23 PM
there is nothing that is not politically motivated, this one will
give him a plus.  There is this argument as to why should
a pilgrim from lagos or porthacourt pay same with that of
some1 from sokoto or maiduguri where there is a great diff
of about N70,000.00 (Return ticket) and it is never reflected
in the hajj fare!

I am thinking of coming up with a step by step manual, just
like the one they gave us at madina on our way to makka.
all we need is to sponsor the publication and give it as sabil
for intending pilgrims.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: gogannaka on June 23, 2010, 01:09:07 PM
The hajj fares have not been reduced.
What the government did was to peg the Exchange rate for the Hajj at N135 to the Dollar.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on June 24, 2010, 05:37:04 PM
there is nothing that is not politically motivated, this one will
give him a plus.  There is this argument as to why should
a pilgrim from lagos or porthacourt pay same with that of
some1 from sokoto or maiduguri where there is a great diff
of about N70,000.00 (Return ticket) and it is never reflected
in the hajj fare!

Not everything is politically motivated. Somethings are done bassed on their merits.

Quote
I am thinking of coming up with a step by step manual, just
like the one they gave us at madina on our way to makka.
all we need is to sponsor the publication and give it as sabil
for intending pilgrims.

Good idea, although I feel there's no scarcity of such materials for pilgrims.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: ummutameem on June 24, 2010, 09:12:43 PM
materials on how to conduct hajj are not scarse, some are just not self explanatory, or filled wit unnecessary explanations.

once u get to jidda, time for explanation has passed, just make sure u do wat is right, d time for explanation is at home before going, n i think dat is a task for our govt. but any help is will be appreciated. however i think u should target ppl at home, where they are comfortable n can get someone to read for them if they cant read, alot of ppl dont know what to do, they go mess up n come back, n i dont think there is 'let my ppl go' in hajj is either 'ta karbu or not', in dat case there is a whole lot of money being wasted.

db its a good u want to do, Allah ya bada sa'a.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on October 29, 2010, 10:02:26 AM
expect fresh reports from this year's hajj Insha Allah
sai mun dawo.
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: bakangizo on November 09, 2010, 09:41:43 AM
You dey go again? Haba DB! A kyale talakawa suma su samu su je mana. What happened to the 5 years time limit policy by the Saudi authorities?
Title: Re: NIGERIAN PILGRIMS - WHICH WAY FORWARD
Post by: Dan-Borno on December 20, 2010, 11:21:38 AM
Alhamdu lillah, i am back, amma da kyar na iso.
report will be ready after Christmas, off to Awka