RELIGION :Problem Of Mankind

[Waziri]

Intolerance is the great evil in the world. Religious intolerance is the greatest of these and has caused more death and destruction in this world than any other thing. Religious intolerance is probably a greater danger to Nigeria than tribalism.

Just while scanning thru' the posts as made in the chit-chat angle of this forum, I came across the above assertion by one of our most respected elders and mentors in this forum. While I maintain the maximum respect I have for his intellectual ability, I cannot hide the fact that I was set a bit offline by his above comments. Cetainly they sound like the propagandist's. They are not only general but sweeping. They are devoid of sufficient data and statistics but sound typical of statements made to spite religions nowadays. It is unfortunate that todays media is full of such sweeping statements that the entire populace take them to be true without second thought.

I hereby appeal to the good sense of judgement of our noble mentor to provide us with the proof of the above statement in whatever way. Atleast we can find cause to discuss the issue with maximum brevity.

Sir, I remain most loyal

[EMTL]

Assalamu alaikum,
Exactly a week ago i happen to watch a Christian program/sermon on the television. I was shocked with the way the sermoner sounded so excessively incitive against Islam and Arabs, i then realised why Bush had to deceive the Americans and tell lies to the rest of the World to justify his crime (war) against Islam: Afganistan, Iraq, etc, etc.

[Guduma]

The in-thing in the Bush's war game plan, really is to denigrate and hit Islam by falsely claiming that Iraq had WMD. Now that has been found to be a fluke by the discerning World community, some how, and bravely too, someone(s) have to check Bush's excesses.
Secondly the U.S pushes for democratic rule every where so that she may extend her tentacles and yoke of imperialism all over the globe.
But come to think of it this way, why can't the U.S offer the same type of democracy to China and Russia. Why is it that the U.S only pick on countries it despises for experimenting its democracy? I look at that democracy as a new tool of colonization, the one that seems only good in the eyes of the U.S. Islam ofcourse must be understood, and not to be fought.

[Anonymous]

all out of context...please respond to the topic!

[lionger]

I second the above opinion  ::)

[EMTL]

Islam ofcourse must be understood, and not to be fought.

Mr. Guest and Lionger should not turn a blind eye to the truth. The above three contributions are coherent and consistent, all aimed at explicating the fact that the adverseries of Islam commits lots more attrocities against the believers and make the loudest noises making complains and claims.

Islam is a religion of peace. The Muslims today are being made endengered species and have to, seeking for survival, protect themselves.

Despite these monumental persecutions and condemnations Allah (SWT) will make His true religion dominate all others with time.

[Muhammad]

salam
i understood the quote to mean religious intolerance is a bad thing not religion itself. If this is what the writer meant to convey then he is not far from the truth.
What i do know is that 'religion', islam to be specific, in of itself is not problematic.
For me, the one thing i can really say iam proud and passionate about is islam, my religion.
For non-muslims, they have since isolated their religion so much so that they consider its implementation non sacrosant.
I hope what i said made sense.
bissalam

[lionger]

Waziri,
I think you read a little too much into Dave's comments. He said religious intolerance was the greatest of evils, not religion itself. Perhaps u are uncomfortable w/ his choice of religious intolerance as the worst form of intolerance, ahead of tribalism. Nevertheless I still think u may have extracted what wasn't there..

EMTL,

Mr. Guest and Lionger should not turn a blind eye to the truth. The above three contributions are coherent and consistent, all aimed at explicating the fact that the adverseries of Islam commits lots more attrocities against the believers and make the loudest noises making complains and claims.

Islam is a religion of peace. The Muslims today are being made endengered species and have to, seeking for survival, protect themselves.

Despite these monumental persecutions and condemnations Allah (SWT) will make His true religion dominate all others with time.

Mr. Dave is talking about getting rid of religious intolerance in the world. What I get from your comments is an attempt to exonerate Islam's adherents from this offense, and shift most of the blame to other faiths like Christianity. Well that is certainly an amusing but thoroughly ineffective attitude that defeats the purpose IMO. They say the first step to solving a problem is admitting it.

So let's talk about the truth. I have a question for you sir: What is the state of religious tolerance in what most of us would consider the 'muslim world'?

[Eskimo]

So let's talk about the truth. I have a question for you sir: What is the state of religious tolerance in what most of us would consider the 'muslim world'?

SO LET US TALK ABOUT THE TRUTH!

I am in no position to tell you whether Islam preaches tolerance or terrorism. But a little walk back to history and the fact on ground may ring the bell.

Let us look at the map of the so called Muslim countries.

A map of the Middle East provides estimates of religious affiliation for sixteen officially recognized countries and territories in that region. Fifteen have a majority Muslim population while Lebanon has Majority Christians. All (including Saudi Arabia) have significant Christian minorities. Those Christian communities are perfectly free to practice their religion. (except in Saudia Arabia, they still claim 100% muslim majority)

In many countries Christians are members of the political and economic elite. For example the church in Damascus were St Paul was said to have been saved by being let down out of a window in a basket is still very much there - and still an active church. And prior to 1948, most had substantial Jewish communities.

If Islam is intolerant, how can this be? How could such communities continue to exist after Muslim rule for over 1,000 years? (Exception: Turkey has been completely under Muslim rule for about 500 years.) The answer is simple: mainstream Islam and Muslim governments do not persecute Christians or Jews. Those who preach such are a tiny minority. I know there are extremist as in all religions.

[Eskimo]

SO LET US TALK ABOUT THE TRUTH! STILL ON THE TRUTH

I know this may not suggest anything to somebody who is determine to derive the formular:

Christianity = Tolerance, Islam = Terror

What is the record of Christianity?

Looking at the map of Western Europe (Eastern Europe was under muslim rule for about half a century...yet they have christian majority!...despite the 'terror' of Islam!). The survey will show a uni religious society with zero tolerance to even a sect in the same religion. Southern France, Spain, Portugal, Sicily in Italy (...was under Islam for 400 years) are all catholics. Likewise France and Italy. Where are they minority muslims and jews. and even protestants. Northern Europe, UK and Germany are protestants with the exception of some part of Northern Ireland (pls get the History of Britain to see how the manage to be). Remember the massacre of st Bartholomew in france, the like of which is not in any religion.

In England for a period the punishment for being a Catholic was death. One Swiss Canton passed a law that any adult male wrong believer (Baptists in this case - the canton was Calvinist) who refused to reform would be arrested and sold as a galley slave to Venice. Some peoples are called church minders. Their job was to identify people not appearing at church services. If friendly persuasion was not enough, there were other means of ensuring compliance.

This christians against christian not to mention the christian jihad (CRUSADE) which continued up to these days.

Even President George W Bush said on 12 September 2001 that there would be a Crusade against those who were behind the attacks on 11 September. He was immediately told to not use that word, and has not since. Yet some actions of his government seem to follow the theme anyhow.

[Eskimo]

This is continuation of the above two post.

HONESTLY AND STRICTLY SPEAKING...

I know nowadays Muslims are more intolerant than the rest...may be the christians regretted their deeds in the past at the same time the muslims are tired of persecution from the west after the lost their once strong kingdom abd defender.

...The argument is the main stream Islam does not support intolerance. while I cant vouch for christianity and judaism.

The middle eastern country with the lowest percentage and nearly lowest number of Christians is Israel. The Zionist state has managed to eliminate most of the native Christians from the birthplace of Christianity. Paying Christian tourists and the foreign Christian groups who run the holy sites are of course welcomed as long as they do not make waves. (Perhaps this is simply the wheel coming full circle. The first claimed case of ethnic cleansing is in the book of Exodus - by the Jews as they entered the "promised land.")

Today, There are many Christians and Jews who still have religious intolerance. We need to join forces to stop the small minorities in each religion that say that only they know the "truth," and who would use that "truth" to surpress or eliminate any who do not agree. The majority need to work together to ensure equal rights for all, regardless of religion or sex.

[Anonymous]

Waziri,
I think you read a little too much into Dave's comments. He said religious intolerance was the greatest of evils, not religion itself. Perhaps u are uncomfortable w/ his choice of religious intolerance as the worst form of intolerance, ahead of tribalism. Nevertheless I still think u may have extracted what wasn't there..

Don't think Waziri read too much outta that. He only wants more explanation from Dave. And onething I notice is Dave made a claim that intolerence is somewhat the greatest evil or what.... which needs more data and statistics to support. But nobody seems to  be disscussing it in that light.

[Anonymous]

Hi

Before I address the main topic may I assure forumites that Valentine's day is NOT a christian practice and has nothing to do with religion at all. It's harmless nonsense named after a St Valentine who was the patron of lovers like about 1600 years ago or something like that but it has nothing to do with religion at all nowadays. (Valentine's bones are held in a church in my home city of Glasgow, Scotland.)

On the main topic I stand firmly by my previous remarks. I am a catholic Christian by birth, though sadly not a very enthusiastic one.
I suspect that human error and human weakness damages most organised religions and God's word is not fully understood by any of us.
I note that the essential beliefs of all the world's major religions are the same and recognise that this is the result of Divine intervention by God (Allah)who has sent among us great prophets to carry His word and tell us His will.
His will is that we should not kill each other, should love and forgive our enemies,should not steal, should show charity to the poor and the sick and kindness to those who are sad, unfortunate and in difficulty.
That we should not judge others harshly is another important aspect of His divine revelation to us and the promise is that if we follow this we shall not be judged harshly ourselves by God on judgement day.
I try to follow my religion which means I do not interfere in other persons religions - as long as their religion does not try to interfere with my freedom to follow my own.
It is not always like this and there is along history of zealots and misguided followers of all the world's major religions persecuting people of other religions.
Murder and persecution in the name of God is the greatest insult to God. It is the complete contradiction of all God tells us.
That is why I believe religious intolerance is a great evil.
And I believe Nigeria will not be at peace with itself until the Christians respect the rights of the Moslems and the Moslems respect the rights of the Christians across the whole of the Federation, and they both respect the rights of others to be neither Christian or Moslem - as religion is a completely personal matter and we, all of us, answer only to God on these matters.

[EMTL]

Hi

That is why I believe religious intolerance is a great evil.
And I believe Nigeria will not be at peace with itself until the Christians respect the rights of the Moslems and the Moslems respect the rights of the Christians across the whole of the Federation, and they both respect the rights of others to be neither Christian or Moslem - as religion is a completely personal matter and we, all of us, answer only to God on these matters.

Thanks Eskimo.

[Waziri]

Sir,

Thank you for your kind response. But as you could have noted. My problem is not with Valentine's Day but rather  your statement above where you said:

Religious intolerance is the greatest of these and has caused more death and destruction in this world than any other thing.

One wonders when and where all these destructions happened? And whether religious intolerence is truly our hounting evil.

For example, in the preceding century, all the signatories of mass destruction, poverty hate and evil machinations were people that propagate the startling phrase that religion is the problem of mankind and intolerance in religion is the greatest evil. These ppl were Hitler, Trostky, Lenin, Mao, Polpot, Stalin, Franco, Mussolini and those behind the bombing of Hiroshima and the invasion of  Vietnem. They killed millions of ppl and destroyed many homes, set brothers against brothers rendered many homeless and many others dying of hunger all for the pursuit of ideologies that maintain the claim that religion and intolerence of its kind is the greatest evil that had beffallen mankind.

One wonders if even this religious intolerence exists in itself as they say. Because we here in Nigeria have never known anything like religious wars or intolerence until when we became secular. Before in nothern Nigeria it was religion that was ruling and there were populations that were not Muslims but yet we never knew anything like religious wars and riots.

To sum everything up, every religion believes and accomodates others that do not belong to its fold. This is a clear fact of history. But when the secularist want to map his way into the power corners he persecutes religion, makes unfounded claims, and later we see his system coming up with destructions he attaches to religion. The truth of the matter is if there is religious intolerence   then it is a flame fired by irreligion. Secularism has failed mankind.

Sorry pls I was not very much organised, was in haste. Will write more if there is need.