Author Topic: Big Picture or Small Picture?  (Read 13745 times)

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Anonymous

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2003, 05:50:07 AM »
bismillah

   Assalamu alaykum and greetings to all. Brother Al-Hamza you still have not replied to some very interesting questions.  I don't actually understand your cleary. It is said in your topic: when we talk of Arabs we are talking of Muslims. I would like to know how is that so? And really who are the infidels you are talking of. Because there are many Christians and also people of the Jewish faith who have become wonderful Muslims, we must give people a chance to understand faith, and help our fellow neighbour when they have followed evil. And this is how the truth from God will always succeed, through mutual understanding.  

Offline Egede1

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2003, 07:47:26 PM »
Ummita, I did know where you lifted the fact that Afghans are top terrorist. However, Osama Bin Laden is an Arabic man who went to Afghanistan with his band of terrorists from the Arab world. I honestly believed that Afghans fell for his crap because of their religious affiliation. I can sense your bias tendency toward non-Muslims as you have decided to sidestep the major issue in the Middle East, thus, creation of Israeli State. The Arabs and the Islamic movement should face fact that Jewish state has come exist. I still insist that Israelis have no business negotiating over parcels of land captured from the Arab armies with Palestinians who ran away on the instigation of the Arab league. The Americans have every justification to go war against any Arab state that supports terrorism. It is not coincidence that 19 people who partook in the bombing of world trade center in New York are all Arabs and staunch followers of Islamic religion. I am not surprise about your defensive stand on this issue.            

Offline Blaqueen

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2003, 09:02:59 PM »
Quote



Ok wat was the main problem with respect to Palestines & Isralites? You can ask a million ppl and you will still get the same reply.........its over that piece of land!!! & when you speak of arabs dragging Islam into the mess of terrorism & black mail.........I say that it total crap........

Think deep and rominate......Theres no point of going up & down and looking for meaningless clauses to bck up your opinion for this war crisis....Its common sense! Judgements shud always come from a two sided weighed facts..... not your one sided opinion story
? ?

one sided kam!!!!

na gode ma sista! i wonder why people always highlight the fact that its the "muslims" against "innocent jews" in the conflict!! hullo!! its land! and also water is involved!!!!... it juss happens that the two parties involved are jews and muslims... :-/ it coulda been any nation!...

ok so maybe they cry out "God is Great"... but it's ARABIC!! and arabs use those kinda phrases aaaaalllllll the time!!!.. EVEN WHEN THEY ARE JUST MUSLIMS BY NAME!!!!!.. but then again i'm in no position to say palestinians who commit the bombings are not muslims...
but how many people commit such suicide? and how many of the palestinians are out of the country fighting the other way (education)?...
besides, they were provoked.. and then they end up provoking the jews.. and then they keep on poking each other like kids.... and they should all GROW UP!

and the reason why north koreans dont go around killing.. is because they have not been oppressed to the extent that they will retaliate... face it, the palestinians are in a tight spot (i feel sorry for both sides tho)... take ur time to sit with a palestinian and ask about his/her history...

plus i was sayin'.. americans are quick to label people... and i'm wondering wut they'll label koreans "if" the beef sparks up...
since almost every race or nation had their go with such "religious/racial/tribal PROFILING"... it's a pattern... ::)
hey (lionger)... those were juss thots flowing and there were many sarcastic remarks there... iiiiiiiiii dont think u get it tho!... it was juss random thot... (i.e. not that i believe catholics are killers ofcourse, i was juss sayin..)


and then.....
arab state that supports terrorism?... ok oh.. US supported terrorism and coups and assasinations... soooooooooooooooo...? wheytin next? a beg, u think if they were 100% honest, they would be in this mess?? HONESTY IS DA BEST POLICY!...

for e.g.... they are saying saddam oppresses kurds.. well ironically, turkey does too, and US has THREE bases in turkey.. i mean c'mon! where is dee justice? juss leave america land of the brave... they have money for wars but cant feed the poor in their country...


wuts up with that country Central Republic of Africa.. or sumthin like that... do they have any conflict there?
and people wonder why i soooo love Niger.. they may only have red sand there... but the place is sooooo peaceful!
da Hunniez Gettin Money Playin Niggaz Like Dummy

Offline Blaqueen

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2003, 09:12:57 PM »
i have an innocent question.... :-/

ok.. i was wondering...

whats the difference b/w a legal war and an illegal war?

US and Taliban.... friends...
some how they betrayed each other... enemies
so dont u think the taliban are waging war against the US, "legally"? since the US went to war with talibans "legally"
or does it have to be the US who confirms wut a "legal" war is and wut an "illegal" war is?

and... innocent people get killed in "any kind of war"...
e.g. americans wiped out villages in vietman, b'cuz there MIGHT be a POSSIBILTY that a rebel/figher was living in the village...
same as 9/11?

or am i missing out on sumthing?


plus one more thing... when blacks were demanding rights and PROTECTING themselves thru black panthers, they were treated like terrorists... even the teen members were shot on sight  :-/ when all they did was PROTECT blacks ...i.e. escorted them around to make sure they were not harrassed... NEVER did they lynch a white person..
yet the KKK were allowed to roam free lynching any black they please...

history repeating itself on a larger scale? bigger picture? international level?


mind u i'm not taking sides.. i have to say, i'm a product of the all the nations in conflict now.. and i dont like it at all  >:(
da Hunniez Gettin Money Playin Niggaz Like Dummy

Offline lionger

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2003, 03:04:20 AM »
Terrific points on the U.S. double standards, FDQ. Couldn't have said it better. G.W. Bush and his folk have made such a mess of things...and they NEVER learn from past mistakes. Now they are thinking of supporting Iraq's opposition leaders under 'regime change'. Twenty years from now they'll become the new 'axis of evil'. I've come to the conclusion that the rest of the world should have a stake in electing the president of the United States of America, so that the rest of us can hear word.

Egede1 I beg to disagree with the notion that the U.S. has every right to attack any Arab country that supports terrorism. You should know very well that their double standards coupled with scrappy and very foolish short-term planning created some of the terrorists that they are making noise about today!

Offline Borg

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2003, 05:58:56 AM »
Lionger i agree with u... the US is the direct cause of most of the problems the world finds itself in today. They armed Saddam, they armed and trained Bin Laden and the taliban, the truth is whenever anyone opposes them, they become the bad guys, it has nothing to do with anything else.

Does the US recognise the UN only when it bows its head to thier grand agenda? The US actually has the guts to say they are gonna form there own international coalition if the UN security council doesnt pass their next resolution on forcefully disarming Iraq. And there is so much noise on France using its veto power to block any such vote.... pple tell me, between France and the US, which has used its veto power the most?
The last time France used its veto was in 1976, over a resolution to recognize the tiny island of Mayotte as part of the newly independent state of Comoros. For the US, it was three months ago, over a resolution condemning violence in the Middle East, specifically the killing of U.N. employees by Israeli soldiers and the destruction of a U.N. warehouse filled with food for needy Palestinians.

If by any chance the US does go to war with Iraq without the backing of the security council, then i guess it will be very clear to the whole world what the US is all about

Offline lionger

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2003, 12:47:43 PM »
hi Borg..

U know the U.S. is not the only country guilty of double standards; many other countries are, especially those others that possess veto power in the Security Council: China, Russia, France and the U.K. These countries at times, have made the Security council very ineffective in cases where fast decision-making was sorely needed.

In an attempt to bring balance to the ever-growing anti-americanism on this forum, let me remind you guys of the Kosovo crisis a couple of years ago. Do you guys remember that occasion? Then, the Kosovar muslim albanians were being heavily persecuted by serbs in Slobodan Milsevic's quest for 'greater Serbia'. People screamed for U.N. action, but it was clear that China and especially Russia (being the 'father of all slavic peoples') would boycott any proposed use of force. Milosevic would still be conducting the same genocide today had the U.S. and NATO not taken the initiative, and without U.N. permission. Without their 'unilateral' bypass of the Security Council, your muslim brothers in Kosovo would still be persecuted today.

So its not just the U.S.; all other veto-wielding members are guilty also; they all pursue individual interests instead of collective responsibility. It's just that they are not so stupid as to be openly brazen about it, as the U.S. is. Afterall, aren't the Russians commiting atrocities against the muslim Chechnyans? Who is going to challeng them on that?

Offline Borg

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2003, 01:29:35 PM »
Agreed lionger... Yes they have done the right things 'sometimes' in fact they started with some very noble goals, but thats no excuse, for what the US has become today.

The arrogance they show, especially this current administration is just so out of this world. They are still the root cause of most of the problems today.

One question that bothers me more than most is - if they break the world coalition that exists now, how will the war on terrorism be fought from now on?

Offline ummita

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2003, 04:50:13 PM »
Quote
Ummita, I did know where you lifted the fact that Afghans are top terrorist.  I can sense your bias tendency toward non-Muslims as you have decided to sidestep the major issue in the Middle East, thus, creation of Israeli State. The Arabs and the Islamic movement should face fact that Jewish state has come exist. I am not surprise about your defensive stand on this issue.

Egey, and I didnt know where you lifted the fact that I am in defense of these two-logger heads.......I will attend to you later.....lemme juss go sleep, afta my siesta, I will put u in2 light, but in the main time do a lilttle home work? When & wat tym have the jews had had claim ova d land? where did you hear that.......? Defence.......she laffs Have u senn me in Israel or Plastines or have u spotted me..on d Gaza borders?..I will b bck. Look at you, Afghans have since been labelled top terrorist.....it has even b'come an old wives tale.....& those givin Afghanz that top label who r they? U surely know who am tlkin about
Despite ur slammin, am still jammin!!!

Offline al_hamza

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2003, 10:28:07 PM »
well,
sorry for my absence my cable was spoilt.
let me start then,
someone talked of jordan and other nations bieng created in 1940....? thats total gibberish saying palestinians were to go there.
Palasteni's and jordani's are totally different arabs and they belong to thier respective teritories. i personally have a palestini friend that happens to be the gr8 grandson of a king from Gaza. they were thrown out how? well jews came all of a sudden bought desert lands in chunks for "big money" and then threw the arabs out, now excuse me we have a lot of labanese in kano and they own "Massive" properties. now how would it feel if they decide "ok our property is lebanon"? and no government can rule in it except lebanese. talk sense amigo!
then Ebrahim Hamza.... to tell u a fact i was very excited to see this name since i have allways wished to name my son Ibrahim (thats if i get to have one) well talkin of infidles i mean our enemies. an american out there isnt my enemy infact even a priest isnt... that is if he doesnt preach against my religion. You said we should give them a chance, do u know how Satan was driven out of the heavens? your plea is exactly like saying God should forgive shatan.(AxtaghfurAllahul azeem).
Ummita you talked of me going to jihad. Well jihad is allowed only if your Emir/ Khalifa gives you the right. Now bring in an Islamic government in Nigeria and let them ask me to do that. Insha'Allah every drop of my blood will be sacrifised for Allah (S.W.T).
commin again someone spoke of history and said that area belonged to jews originally. ok. aryans lived in that so called jewish teritory b4 the jews and had thier empire over the middle east and northern africa. With time the empire vanished and people of the aryan race migrated to today Europe,central Asia,Afghanistan,kashmir and lower northern africa. i think then both the jews and palestini's should leave in that case and make way for the aryans..... that includes me!

then again someone mentioned pan-arabism well painfully thats true and i have mentioned it alot of times to palastini friends of mine and they do accept it. Its utterly jahilanci but it doesnt mean just because the arabs are fools we continue to let them do as they wish. Islam is our religion not someone's personal property. If they do wrong we suppose to show them right.

Look its not going to be easy to change all of a sudden. for instance the boys that killed anwar sadat(he recognised israel) in Egypt... what happend to them? did they achieve? no! who came in place? the boys that co-ordinated the coup to bring back Islam or hosni mubarak? uncle Osama is clearly wise enough to know the arab cream at the moment isnt ready for a change and i guess he finds it better to do so from the outside.

Someone said america trained Taliban... give me a break.

What proof do we have that sept 11th was  master minded by osama? the taliban ambasador time and again asked for proof that Osama did it and said "We will hand him over if he is responsible" but ... NO where was the proof.

then again we have a very intresting person speakin of Islamic states unifying. well do u think that over the next ten years if we merge and progress, Uncle Sam (USA) will like it? we have to fight in small units to destroy the giant. make little hurdles and belive me if you read about the afghan occupation by the red army you will surely understand.

then again someone says that Allah has Said we will win. thats very true but let me tell you of a hadith.
Prophet Mohammed (S.A.W) said "PREPARE YOUR HORSES AND WEAPONS EVERY TIME" which means we are to be prepared and armed at all time. ok yes i dont have a gun or even a knife.... whose mistake is it?

there are alot of things that i still havent talked about... am kinda tired actually but let me mention one more hadith b4 i leave.
the Nobel Prophet(S.A.W) prayed to Allah that His Ummah should not face the kind of punishments other Prophet's Ummahs did. Allah Accepted the Nobel Prayer.
then the Prophet(S.A.W) asked "Ya  Allah what punishment will my Ummah face?" and Allah Replied "Money, We will give them money"
today we muslims run more for what this world has to offer and forget about the basics or at-least are not well aware of what our religion demands
ABILUNAH? SABILUNAH? AL-JIHAD! AL-JIHAD!

Anonymous

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2003, 06:29:07 AM »
Bismillah

   Assalamu alaykum and greetings to all.  Al Hamza, my brother your reply is appreciated, and may Allah subhana wa ta'ala grant you peace and many blessings.
   Many Muslims and non-muslims alike do not clearly understand the message of Islam. The real struggle is within ourselfes to purify our hearts from sin. Remember prophet Muhammed(sallalaho alaihi wa sallam) and phrophet Isa(Jesus)(alahies salam) remember the forgiveness they had for there brothers after they had been ridiculed and humiliated by them. There behavior was not violent, but it was kind, merciful and compassionate. We must follow their example. And that is why we have faith in one God today, because someone has told us.
   Al-Hamza the shayton was driven from heaven because of his deliberate disobediance. He understood very clearly what God(Allah subhana wa ta'ala) was asking of him. Many non-Musllims and also Muslims do not understand what they are doing.

Offline al_hamza

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2003, 08:50:36 AM »
Assalam,
Ebrahim, you must understand, Islam is all about the society and not just one person. Though the Prophet (S.A.W) was a Highly important figure in Islam, He still did not retaliate when He was attacked. Why? thats because The Nobel one wanted to show us tolerance. But when muslims in general were attacked there was allways a jihad that followed.

Edge1 when did USA support arabs? can you please tell?
it was Britain that did, and to me it isnt HELP  they did, by breaking the sultanate and liberating the arabs of the turks.
both muslims. the final breaking of the othoman empire happened about 100years ago. B4 then it had allways been a threat and had even marched deep into europe. You see britain helped itself not the arabs by finishing turkey and putting Kamal ata turk in place. PLEASE GO BACK TO YOUR HISTORY CLASSES.
ABILUNAH? SABILUNAH? AL-JIHAD! AL-JIHAD!

Offline al_hamza

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2003, 08:58:40 AM »
OH YES,
dear lionger,
America helped the bosnians well thats very true, did u hear of the internatinal pressure excerted? because bosnia saw the worst kind of muslim bloodshed in history. i dont need to tell you of the kinds of human rights abuse's that went on.
Now who was on the other side supporting milosovic? Russia true or false? the U.S will do anything to show Russia down and this helped the bosnians, thats it pure luck! what does america have to do with korea? especially back then when they didnt even know what economy is(the koreans)? but USA still went in because Russia was involved, so today we have two koreas, the USSR version and the USA version.
ABILUNAH? SABILUNAH? AL-JIHAD! AL-JIHAD!

Offline lionger

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2003, 01:51:36 PM »
al hamza

lol are you sure you don't need to hit the history books as well? Your analysis of history is always ridiculously one-sided and incomplete. I hope you remember that the Ottoman empire was dismantled because they, along with Germany and Austria-hungary, were losers of WWI. Thier legacy in Europe is the Balkans, which ever since the demise of the empire has remained the most politically unstable part of Europe.

Your theory on milosevic holds no water, because the kosovo conflict happened in 1999, ten years after the Soviet Union collapsed and with it the Cold War. I won't say the U.S. and Russia are paddies now, but that sort of Cold war rivalry no longer exists, so your point is invalid. It might explain why the U.S. gave bin Laden, the mujaheedin and the would-be Taliban money and weapons to fight the Soviet invaders in the 1980s, without thinking about the long-term effects.

Finally I must beg you to stop preaching bigotism, intolerance and hatred on this forum. Reading some of your posts is almost like reading manifestos of islamic extremist groups like the Hamas, Hizbollah and Al Quaeda. Your reference to bin Laden as 'uncle osama' is quite shocking. You make absolute rubbish of the fact that jewish and american muslims exist in large numbers by saying that giving them a chance would amount to saying God should forgive Satan. You indirectly preach 'jihad' war against the U.S. by saying that that islamic states have to fight together to destroy the giant (U.S.) and that victory would be just like it was to the afghans against the soviets ( as if they wouldn't still be the soviets backyard if not for the U.S.). I'm surprised no-one has come out to quash this kind of thinking. The biggest problem with the people of the middle east, ?arabs and jews, is intolerance and hatred for each other. They are not ready to live in harmony and SHARE with each other. If not, how can militant Islamic groups and Ariel Sharon still enjoy overwhelming support in their respective sides? There is no love lost b/w the two. As long as that is the case, palestine will never know peace. We have got to dump this stupid war and 'us vs. them' antics. As I said on another forum, our world is getting smaller and smaller. This is not the time to divide and scatter; this is the time to unite!

Offline Borg

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Re: Big Picture or Small Picture?
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2003, 03:27:11 PM »
Guys, guys... chillout for a sec. I can see sparks beginning to fly all over, take it easy a beg ooo!!! I dont think statements like 'go back to your history classes' are for this place, irrespective of how opposed you are to a point of view, you need to show a little restraint.

These are very sensitive topics where one poorly chosen word could smere the entire meaning of the entire argument, so before i proceed to comment, I have a few questions:

For Al Hamza
- Who do you define as a kufar and who do you term as an enemy of Islam?
- Is Bin Laden/Al Qaeda responsible for the Sept 11th attacks and the attacks on the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania? If yes were they legit targets?
- Who is the bigger enemy, the US govt  or the Arab states that bow unconditionally to whatever the US wants?

For Loinger
- The term 'extremist' is relative, i depends on who is saying it. Your extremist is someones libral, your 'terrorist' is someones freedom fighter.
- If the Othman empire was desmantled along with Germany, Austria and Hungary after WWI, how come they are soveriegn nations now but not the Islamic Caliphate, is there another reason apart from WWI that the Caliphate was dimantled for?

 


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