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ALEXANDER LITVINENKO DIES A MUSLIM

Started by HUSNAA, December 11, 2006, 05:48:29 AM

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MySeLf

Ete for sure you are very very ignorant about islam, therefore arguing with you is complete waste of time, because we will never understand each other.

You are completely blind, desperately searching in complete darkness to talk about islam and muslim, therefore do it ALONE!

You no nothing about Alexander litvinenko either....... i recommend you read about him and all the work he does for the chechenians, then you will know his connection with islam and muslims long b4 his illness.



GENTLE APPROACH TO WHAT IS CLOSE TO OTHER PPL HEART!
!!!........................I STAND 4 ISLAM..........................!!!

NewEte

Mr. Myself, 
I wasn't arguing with you. I was in a discuss with Dan Borno where I clarified my views on an earlier comment I made. He understood after reading through my commentary. What am I so ignorant about in Islam? Can you be more specific? I have said Islam is not just any religion to be toyed with. Is that ignorance?
I also said becoming a muslim is not just a game or a casual decision without serious intent. Is that ignorance?
I also said Islam should be taken seriously. Is that false, and is that ignorance? Please help me out here.

Regarding ALEXANDER LITVINENKO, nobody on this site knew, including you Mr. Myself, knew a thing about this guy. The only reason why he came to limelight was because he was an Russian spy that got poisioned under very suspicious circumstance. The British government and media ran with the story pointing accusing fingers at Moscow. The only thing we both know about Alexander is what we read period.  But I did do a background search on him on the net, and the dude was a Russian spy for most of his career. The Russians believe he's a damn traitor for being in league with chechen rebels/'terrorists' and they hate his guts.

There are others that believe also that if Moscow was involved in the slaying of Alexander Litvinenko, that it may in retrospect, have been a good move since Litvinenko's support for chechnya may have been putting Russia at risk of a terrorist attack. As a matter of fact, there was heightened security this past week in Moscow because of a potential terror attack. 

So Mr. Myself, before you go on declaring that I know nothing about Litvinenko, perhaps you can tell me how well you know him and then educate me about the facts surrounding this man. But I will leave you with this piece of advice, l скажет это Вам на русском языке. Вы никогда не должны утверждать, что знали кое-что, что Вы не имеете никакого знания о. Я сомневаюсь, были ли Вы когда-либо к России или имеете какую-нибудь идею относительно ее политики. Если Вы желаете дебатировать со мной, я предлагаю, чтобы Вы придерживались того, что Вы знаете. Это не один из них

HUSNAA

Quote from: NewEte on January 17, 2007, 04:59:04 AM
But I have to question this entire conversion story. First off, I don't know what the whole excitement is all about. Are death bed conversions sybolic or something?

Conversions to Islam, especially a genuine death bed conversion are an exciting thing for muslims Ete. The reason for this is can only be understood and appreciated by muslims. I wish I can convey to you a little of what muslims feel and why. It all has to do with our belief in the hereafter and the fact that the hereafter is a haven of eternal pleasure for those who earn the pleasure of God and also a pit of eternal suffering for those who earned His Displeasure. It also has to do with the fact that God is very Merciful and we all anticipate His Mercy. The best  analogy I can give you is that the excitement Muslims feel at a death bed conversion is akin to winning the lottery, say a fifty million pound or dollar lottery. That buzz that excitement that such a win generates is not confined to only the winner. It affects those close to him/her as well as those who hear about it whether on TV or Radio because every one wishes it was him that won that lottery. With a conversion to Islam, especially a deathbed conversion, it is not that the person wishes it was him converting at that moment, no it is the certainty of the forgiveness and the huge huge EVENT (a life of eternal bliss certainly worth more than any amount of money) that awaits the person. Furthermore, because the person is dying shortly after, then he has no queries to answer in the hereafter. He is not going to face the torments of the grave which are very real and will afflict even muslims, he is not going to sweat it out on the Plain of Ressurection, where bcos of dread of God's reckoning and Judgement, ppl will sweat so profusely in proportion to their dread and their sins. He will be under the Umbrella of God's Mercy on that terrible day. He will probably scale the bridge that lies between the plain of resurrection and paradise in the blink of an eye.  His book of bad deeds will be light, because God Has Forgiven him. He will not be under any apprehension because he will not be interrogated. Only those ppl destined for the fire of hell will be interrogated on the day of judgement. And then he will enter paradise which has gardens beneath which rivers flow to dwell therein for all eternity. To have all that you have ever wanted, to have every wish fulfilled, every desire anything..... and live in peace. Peace that is the word one hears perpetually in paradise. Peace on you oh dwellers of paradise!!!! 

The angels' first greetings to the dwellers of Paradise is peace:
  'And those who keep their duty to their Lord are driven unto the Garden in troops till, when they reach it, and the gates thereof are opened, and the warders thereof say unto them: peace be unto you! Ye are good, so enter ye (the Garden of delight),to dwell therein;  
( Az-Zumar, Verse 37)

Then in Surah Qaf, verses 31 to 34
31   And the Garden is brought nigh for those who kept from evil, no longer distant.
32   (And it is said): This is that which ye were promised. (It is) for every penitent and heedful one,
33   Who feareth the Beneficent in secret and cometh with a contrite heart.
34   Enter it in peace. This, the day of immortality.


God (SWT)'s Salutation on the dwellers of His paradise will be peace:

58   The word from a Merciful Lord (for them)is Peace! (Surah Yaseen verse 58


As everyone wishes it was him that won the lottery and sighs whimsically at the thought, so every muslim wishes it was him that is going to get all that massive heavenly lollypop coming the way of the converter, because essentially, the new convert has served his time and is shortly going off onto something better, while the muslims around him still have to answer for their deeds, still have to tow the path to salvation which is not an easy one and one is just not sure of one's record or performance. But this deathbed confession, that one is witnessing is a guaranteed success.
I think essentially I have conveyed the reason why Muslims are filled with an uncontrollable buzz when a conversion especially a deathbed conversion takes place.

The comforting thing is that any muslim who dies upon the utterance the Kalimat Shahada, gets a reward greater than the deathbed convert, gets all the benefits accruing to the convert and much more. The Kalimatus Shahada is professing the oneness of Allah and the truth of Prophet Mohammad's status as Allah's messenger, (or just the profession of the Oneness alone, if one is not destined to utter the whole of it, at least there was the intention).


Quote from: NewEte on January 17, 2007, 04:59:04 AMIt is quite apparent that ALEXANDER LITVINENKO was not himself. The poison that afflicted him had eaten deep into his brain cells and he had no control over what he was saying or what he wanted. This man was suffering from demential at this point and clearly was not with his faculties intact.  Given his degraded condition, I can understand how he could have been talking in a confused mindset and not knowing what he was saying.
I am surprised people here actually rejoiced over this. Let's just hope Mr Litvinenko rests in peace, but it is clear he never converted to anything. He was just sick.



Keep wishing Ete. That is what u'd like to believe. The reality on the other hand is far from yr sentiments. Litvinenko had the full function of his faculties when he passed away. The poson afflicted his physiology, but it didn't damage an iota of his brain. He never went mad as u stated.
His wife Marina stated in an interview that his last words to her were:
'Marina, I love you so much'. She said that he could only say a few words and they were coming singly. Do those loving words to a wife sound like the rantings of a mad man?
Furthermore his last words to another friend of his, a film maker Andrei Nekrasov, were 
'The bastards got me but they won't get everybody. I want to survive, just to show them". Do these sound like the words of a man out of his mind?
Still yet, another friend told the press that Alexander died with a 'clear conscience, a clear heart and with dignity'

Anyone looking at Litvinenko's picture as he lay on his hospital bed will never conclude that they were looking at an incoherent man. He was able to talk and communicate with his family. His condition worsened when he had a heart attack four days before he died. He was put on a ventilator, and sedated, but he never recovered. What ever he had to say, he said it possibly before he went into intensive care.   He released a kind of press statement which was read after his death. Would a demented person think like that? That is plan for the eventuality of the inevitable (by dictating a press briefing) and even pinpoint his possible murderers?
As it was his father who revealed the death bed conversion to the world, I don't see how Ete can have a reason to denounce the conversion. I doubt that Ete knows Litvinenko better than his Litvinenko's father knows his own son. Or can this statement be refuted? In which case if Litvinenko's father who had first hand information on the conversion,  also had confidence in his son's sanity and frame of mind when he, Litvinenko converted and requested to be buried according to Islamic rites, then how could Ete possibly raise objections?

The only conclusion I can draw from Ete's reaction is that he went into denial, brought about by a subconscious disdain of anything purported to be muslim. I say subconscious disdain, since Ete wrote in another response that he hadn't said what he did about Litvinenko in order to offend Dan Borno or Islam (or any other muslim, I presume). I am inclined to believe you on that score Ete. At least, you are making an effort to integrate harmoniously with the majority  of the forumnites, from yr recent posts. That pugilistic stance has worn off somewhat. Even that subconscious disdain of muslims will wear away. Just stick with us kid. You will be our next convert before long. 
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

NewEte

Perhaps you should re-read my last post. But let me clarify your misconception that I am "effort to integrate harmoniously with the majority  of the forumites". What on earth gives you that impression? Lsten kido, I speak or write my mind objectively and independently, and above all, I do so without reservations. Majority view point is of little relevance to me because I am not a conformist. I would imagine you'd know that by now.

In reference to me being your 'next convert', I seriously have to ask you if you are delusional (no disrespect intended by the way). On second thoughts, What the hell! Let's have a wager here. I'll convert to whatever it is you want me to convert to IF   you can produce one convert that has returned from this magnificent paradise to attest to its reality. Do this, and I'll convert.

Till then, the Litvinenko's story is what it is, and my position is the same.

HUSNAA

So as u are not trying to integrate harmoniously with the majority of muslims, you are out to cause confusion? It seems so from yr german hijab thread.
Anyway no need to get too upset about my saying you will convert. I aint going to drag u and make u a convert lol. So cool it kiddo.
The test of true faith is to believe in the unseen. Which of course you cannot do. Well I cant resurrect the dead. It is not with in my means and power. So U and I will just have to wait until we are both dead and resurrected then we will see about the magnificent paradise. So how about that?
As to Litvinenko's story, u are perfectly welcome to yr point of view. History will be the best the judge eventually.
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

alkanawi

Look at it this way Ete
if someone is in that "magnificent paradise" he would certainly not be willing to come out even for a nanosecond(i for one)
and if he is in the other side,those demons and devils wouldn't allow him one second of respite to come out and shout a warning.
So there you go.For those who believe they have nothing to loose even if when they die there is no afterlife,but what if there is and you only realise when it is too late.
which one you go gamble on?
"corgito ergo sum"