Author Topic: Obama: 'I'm not a Muslim, I'm against Hamas and Arabs, and I'll protect Jews'  (Read 29509 times)

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Offline _Waziri_

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Muhsin, it is not on everything you must comment please, just allow it flow like the rest of the members are doing. Each among us know where to begin or stop please do not give us the impression that it is you who only know when to calm others as if they don't know when to calm themselves!

This may mean some sort of an insult to some. You make peace when two parties agree they are on a war not when they believe they are enjoying the sports. You can't judge people by your standard afterall this discussion is not meant for you alone even though you are the one who started the thread. The subject was yours only before you took it to public arena but once there it is no longer yours but public's.

Offline Cekenah

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Okay, let's not try debasing ourselves by calling names like 'Muslim apologist' or 'Muslim hater' as you risk being branded here. But then if by saying what I said you still want to insist I denied the Holocaust why would you want to insist that even after attempting to compare Islam and Nazism all should try to see it as not so? Same standard for you and same standard for Muhsin or Myself.
First of all, I don't know what you think the term 'apologist' means. Webster's disctionary describes it as 'one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something'. Does this not describe your relationship with Islam? I'm not aware of any pejorative usage of the word and I'm sorry if that is your experience. No offense intended.

Secondly, anyone who thinks I am a 'Muslim hater' needs to have his head examined!

Thirdly, I have already responded to your charges above; perhaps you missed it. If you are still unconvinced, then hear this: I put NO link between Islam and Nazism, and as I have shown, the rest of my post kicks against such an idea. My redaction of Hitler's views on Islam do not represent my own views anymore than my redaction (and that of sherrif et al) of Hitler's abhorence for blacks constitutes our hatred for the black race!

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Why must you wish your explanation to be accepted without reading motives and come round to claim that mine shouldn't be so accepted?

Let's say same standards be applied you take me clearly on my words and I do that to you. You insist on reading meanings out of mine, I read meaning out of yours!

There is no basis for comparison between us, Waziri. Unlike you, I'm not imposing my own pretext on your posts and quoting you out of context. Rather, I'm conveying the consensus of scholarly opinion on your Holocaust views. Unsurprisingly, you don't see your position as a 'denial' of the Holocaust - well, most scholars do! That's not just my pretext; that's academic opinion - which of course you are free to disagree with.

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After all you said you can establish your comparison of Islam and Nazism from serious points of reference and I wish you do that.
I said no such thing!

Offline Cekenah

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BTW Muhsin,

I sheath my sword. All is forgiven!

Offline _Waziri_

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First of all, I don't know what you think the term 'apologist' means. Webster's disctionary describes it as 'one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something'. Does this not describe your relationship with Islam? I'm not aware of any pejorative usage of the word and I'm sorry if that is your experience. No offense intended.

Cekenah, the problem up there is not the word apologist but the descriptive as you put it, "Muslim apologist", Yes I am "Islam apologist", that's defender of Islam. But I am not a "Muslim apologist" which means defender of Muslim or just Muslim who defends but nothing is put to denote what he defends, "Muslim apologist", That was why I said you too risk being branded "Muslim hater", that's he who hates Muslim, not Islam.

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Secondly, anyone who thinks I am a 'Muslim hater' needs to have his head examined!

Hope you got why in the first place I used that in demonstration.

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Thirdly, I have already responded to your charges above; perhaps you missed it. If you are still unconvinced, then hear this: I put NO link between Islam and Nazism, and as I have shown, the rest of my post kicks against such an idea. My redaction of Hitler's views on Islam do not represent my own views anymore than my redaction (and that of sherrif et al) of Hitler's abhorence for blacks constitutes our hatred for the black race!

Well accept this and hope you should accept my stance as not denying the Holocaust but rather saying there are reasons why we should believe the outcome of such event may have been exaggerated.

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There is no basis for comparison between us, Waziri. Unlike you, I'm not imposing my own pretext on your posts and quoting you out of context. Rather, I'm conveying the consensus of scholarly opinion on your Holocaust views. Unsurprisingly, you don't see your position as a 'denial' of the Holocaust - well, most scholars do! That's not just my pretext; that's academic opinion - which of course you are free to disagree with.

Fine, there are also other scholars who believe position like mine do not constitute Holocaust denial after all you did not site any scholar for your claims for us to scrutinize for he may belong to a school of thought we don't approve of.

Safe?

Offline lionger

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Some of you are jokers, for real  ;D. Why was my name mentioned in this thread?? Muhsin and Ibro, I'm talking to you! ;D

Offline Muhsin

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Lionger,

Go back and read the texts. Guess you'll know why. 8)
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline Muhsin

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Obama Bn "Laden".
http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-electi...788281739.html
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline *~MuDa~*

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I saw in the news the day before yesterday, Obama, i think it was a campaign in New Orleans, were he publicly chanllenged McCain to a debate on the policy that the US is suppose to take after the assuming in power of the new regime. He accused McCain that he is planning to continue with the Bush policies, and that he Obama, will be introducing a new policy, and that the Bush policy is democracy of the past, and his own policy will be democracy of the future....lol! i had to laugh due to the growing number of supporters he was easily summoning! He seems to have the upper hand.
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Offline Muhsin

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Muda,

Obama is very good oratory. He swiftly attracts people towards him. Have you listened to his debate with Mrs Clinton yesterday? He was very tricky at the same time very intelligent. He won it seventy five percent, I believe. Maybe this guy...though only God knows.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline Jack Fulcher

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Well, hello again my friends.  Boy, I've been off-line for some time now, but it seems this forum is still lively and people are still addressing the major issues of the day.  This is an interesting topic to me, being an American and following the presidential race daily.  I used to visit here often, but gave up for a while for several reasons.  First, this job is eating my brain and I find it hard to take any time to write - I like to write but find I write too much so that every time I do so it's a major comittment of time. 

Second, I found that there is a significant difference in attitude regarding free speech and expression on this board.  I came here originally because of the Amina Lawal case - that poor woman who was condemned to death by stoning because she wanted the father of her baby to take responsibility for it.  Shari'ah law apparently doesn't make provision for such actions by the woman - all the man had to do is swear he didn't do it (father the baby) and, since it was clear that the baby was born out of wedlock, the shari'ah courts convicted her of adultry and sentenced her to die.  Good grief!!!  What sort of ninth century world is this?  So I found you folks and demanded an explanation and hoped you would listen to reason.  Apparently few here were used to this sort of approach, and I was accused of disrespect and other crimes, and I even got a note from the admin guy threatening me with expulsion if I didn't tone it down, etc.  It's as though the Enlightenment never happened, or so it seemed.

In any event, we came to a tense compromise and I thought there were some very good exchanges including Mr. Waziri, Dave McEwan, Lionger, and some rather over-the-top guy named al-Hamza (who would end many of his posts saying "jihad! jihad! jihad!").  So I'm glad to see the forum hasn't changed all that much - many old timers still here, along with some new folks who sound very sharp.  Except for the occasional cheerleaders for Hitler, which I hope you agree was one of the worst people of modern times.

But I no sooner get started, but I see I have to stop because I need to go brief my boss on something before he leaves.  I hope to be able to discuss more with you nice people next week.  Be sure to wear your debate shoes.  Sincerely, Jack Fulcher

Offline HUSNAA

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Isnt it an irony that had Hitler not massacred the Jews to the extent that he did, and  David Ben Gurion had not connived with Hitler in the extermination of the Jews (although he never realized the extent to which Hitler would go, but it served his purposes just the same), there would be no Palestinian - Israeli issue today. Did you know that the west was fully aware of jewish extermination under Hitler during the second world war but did little about it? Did you know that the majority of Jews before the second world war NEVER wanted to go and settle in Palestine due to some obscure religious command in the TORAH? There is much more.. just listen to these lectures: 'History of Palestine'  and 'Impact of Zionism on the Three Faiths'..
You will find them at www.edars.com
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Nice to see Jack back.
maigemu

Offline King

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If your claim is that Ben Gurion had connived with Hitler to exterminate fellow Jews, then it would make sense to provide evidence from credible and independent sources. I find it rather strange and even odd that you use the ludicrous claims of an Islamic website to support your own baseless assertions. Think about it for a second. When it comes to the topic of Israel, all Islamic websites and news outlets do is engage in anti Israeli propaganda. They manufacture all kinds of dubious stories and tell those stories over and over until gullible people believe them as truths. It is called propaganda. I hope you know that Nazi Germany had a Ministry of Propaganda, and they used it so well to poison the minds of German people until the became practical zombies of the Fuhrer.

Now, there is however, evidence linking Muslims with the Nazis prior to and during World War 11. History has it that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem had met with Hitler to carve out a genocidal plan on how to destroy the  Jewish people in Palestine. This is particularly interesting keeping in mind that prior to the second World War, the Jews did not have a state of Israel. The existence of Israel is the pretense for which Arabs/Muslims continually conflict with Israel. Yet, when the Jewish population in Palestine were just co settlers in Palestine, the Muslims were still antagonizing, and far from peaceful. 

Here is a video on youtube that clearly shows the grand mufti meeting with Hitler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd5aA_kIDzY&feature=related

Also, for your information, please check out the below website as well for a more comprehensive history of the Grand Mufti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni

Here is a small quote from the above report.......

"In his memoirs after the war, Husayni noted that "Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours'.'[46]

In September 1943, intense negotiations to rescue 500 Jewish children from the town of Arbe in Croatia collapsed due to the objection of the Mufti who blocked the children's departure to Turkey because they would end up in Palestine.[47]

Recent Nazi documents uncovered in the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Military Archive Service in Freiburg [3] by two researchers, Klaus Michael Mallmann from Stuttgart University and Martin Cüppers from the University of Ludwigsburg, indicated that in the event of the British being defeated in Egypt by Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps the Nazis had planned to deploy a special unit called Einsatzkommando Ägypten to exterminate Palestinian Jews and that they wanted Arab support to prevent the emergence of a Jewish state. In their book the researchers concluded that, "the most important collaborator with the Nazis and an absolute Arab anti-Semite was Haj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem.'[48]


Here is another excerpt...

"Propaganda and recruitment
Mufti Hajj Amin al-Husayni inspecting Waffen SS recruits from Bosnia.
Mufti Hajj Amin al-Husayni inspecting Waffen SS recruits from Bosnia.

Toward the end of the World War II, al-Husayni worked for Nazi Germany as a propagandist targeting Arab public opinion and a recruiter of Muslim volunteers for the German armed forces. Beginning in 1941, Al-Husayni visited Bosnia, and convinced Muslim leaders that a Muslim S.S. division would be in the interest of Islam. In spite of these and other propaganda efforts, only half of the expected 20,000 to 25,000 Muslims volunteered."[49] Al-Husayni was involved in the organization and recruitment of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th "Handschar" division of 21,065 men, which conducted operations against Communist partisans in the Balkans from February 1944[50] and participated in the genocide of Yugoslav Jews.[51]

On March 1, 1944, while speaking on Radio Berlin, al-Husayni said:

    'Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you.'[52][53][54]


Feel free to do your own independent research about this report. It comes with footnotes and references.


Offline King

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To see more photos of Al Husseini and Muslim collaboration with Nazi Germany, please check out the site below and then make your own conclusions.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/

Offline HUSNAA

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To see more photos of Al Husseini and Muslim collaboration with Nazi Germany, please check out the site below and then make your own conclusions.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/
Who says that my sources are not credible? YOU! and why am i not surprised? By the same token why should yr sources of information be legitimate since they are Pro jewish and anti islamic. Whats good for the goose is also good for the gander king. You havent even checked the website before making such libelous assumptions. FYI there are lectures in which JEWISH RABBIS came out to talk about the israeli occupation of Palestine  all in these lecture series so just put the blinkers and prejudice aside and go to the website and listen up to them...... it wont hurt you.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 04:12:09 PM by HUSNAA »
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