Author Topic: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?  (Read 8890 times)

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Offline usman11

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Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« on: March 17, 2009, 03:33:25 PM »
CAN scribe alleges terrorists' invasion
From Saxone Akhaine, Kaduna.

THE Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) in the 19 Northern states and the Federal Capital Territory (FCT) at the weekend raised an alarm over the alleged invasion of the country by terrorists . General Secretary of CAN in the North, Saidu Dogo, warned in an interview with journalists in Kaduna that Nigerians should soon expect more crises, alleging that some of the terrorists were receiving training in the bush. He said: "We should be expecting more crises because there is training going on in the bush and the security people know about this. There are terrorists and fundamentalists that have invaded this country and if care is not taken, definitely this country may not remain one....We are leaving in a dynamic society. Many of our youths today are becoming educated and that is a potential time bomb because most of them are jobless. "They may become an easy tool in the hands of those who are bent on destabilizing this country. The government must take urgent steps to address this. I don't have to tell you where this thing is going on, but definitely there is training going on in the bush. Go and investigate what I am telling you...you will see over 100 people in a trailer or a truck saying they are going on hunting, they are not going for any hunting, they are gong for training in the bush to learn how to fight." Dogo continued: "In Kaduna, the governor had to order that those going for the so-called hunting should stop. That is what is happening all over the North. Reports have been reaching security agencies. Some of them are from Niger Republic; some of them are from Chad . If care is not taken, these people will destabilise this country. The government must do something about this." According to him, some of those operating as commercial motorcyclists in some cities, especially in the North were among those who have been brought into the country and were being trained in the bush. "We discovered that some of those people doing Okada are not Nigerians; they don't understand any Nigerian language. Who gave them these motorcycles? They are very easy to be detected. They cannot speak any of the Nigerian languages and they don't know the name of any street or place within the town where they stay. "These are the people who are imported into this country to cause confusion. This was very evident in the Jos crisis of November last year. So, as long as the security of this country is not taken seriously, we will continue to have crises. But the security agents must investigate and do something about these people training in the bush," the CAN scribe said further Dogo, who said he led a delegation to visit displaced victims of the recent religious violence in Bauchi also lamented the conditions of the victims who were being camped at the military barracks in Bauchi. "We visited Bauchi last week and discovered that many of those who were displaced, those whose houses were burnt were still in the army barracks and other places where they are being camped. "To our greatest surprise, we discovered that since the crisis, neither the Bauchi State governor nor even any official of the government had visited the camp. In the army barracks, we discovered that there are over 2,000 displaced people still there. Some of them were taken away by their relations. The presence of the State Emergency Management Agency (SEMA) was yet to be felt. "Many of the displaced victims of the crisis have no mattresses, no blankets, they sleep on bare floor. We also discovered to our dismay that they don't have enough food to eat. This is very unfortunate. We don't know why they are treating Christians like this. This is a glaring case of discrimination. " We had to mobilize some relief materials for them. Many of the victims, including children have no clothes to wear. The children cannot go back to school because they have no uniforms to wear."

Offline usman11

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2009, 04:03:52 PM »
Before I react to this troubling reality, I still want to know what happened to the topic posted by Aliyi Ammani a few weeks ago tieing religious violence to unemployment? What happened to that thread? I ask because I responded in detail challenging the assertions made by the author. Thereafter, that discussion got yanked off the forum. What was the reason behind pulling such an important discussion?

Now, the issue has resurfaced, just like I predicted that this issue will not go away until and unless it is addressed as it should be. From what we see above, religious fanatism which the government ignored and which others like Aliyu Ammani downplayed has taken a different and more dangerous dimension. It is now and has always been a national security issue. These are issues I have raised before on this forum but unfortunately, it has raised alarm from quaters other than the government. The government whose role it is to engage this threat are just there doing nothing as usual. Useless country.

Offline EMTL

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 12:28:11 PM »
Assalamu alaikum,
No wonder this is coming from Usma11 and CAN- it is consistent with CAN's out-burst, fabrications, black mail, spreading hatred, etc. How I wish other places of workship will emulate the Masjid and preach PEACE.

Let me give an example of what happened sometimes ago:
1. During the life time of Abubakar Gumi- a Christian came to him and coverted to Islam, the man stayed in his house for almost a year and one day- in the presence of many people, while Mallam was preaching, he stood-up and said he wanted to make a very important confessing:
" I came here under the pretence of converting to Islam from chirstanity last year but TODAY wish to actually become a MUSLIM." People around where shocked and asked for explanation. he continued:

"I was actually sent by christian associan of neigeria (CAN) officials to pretend converting to Islam but only to gather intellegence- find out the secrets of Muslims- we (christians) were told by our leaders that Muslims are stockpiling weapons and allways planning to attack and harm non-Muslims but having stayed here for the last one year and after my thorough investigation I discovered that the assertion was FALSE- rather I found that Islam is actually the religion of Allah, religion of peace and brotherhood, that is why am now whole-heartedly converting to Islam". .

Mr. Usman if your mission is actually to find the TRUE RELIGION of ALLAH you would surely one day stop these blind rant and ramblings and become a Muslim; my Beloved Brother. 

How I wish other places of workship will emulate the Masjid and ONLY preach PEACE.

Have u ever come across this...
"God sacrificed his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their own sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but is an obcene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us." (page 145-146) and "Actually, the fact that we have four gospels lies at the very heart of our problem. Because we read particular parables or sayings or stories in several different versions, we can't miss the disagreements between them" (page 3-4), From "Who is Jesus" by John Dominic Crossan (35 years of searching for the historical Jesus and former Catholic priest)

JA AL HAQ WA ZAHAQAL BADINU INNA BADNU KANA ZAHUQA.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 12:54:43 PM by EMTL »
In the Affairs of People Fear Allah (SWT). In the Matters Relating to Allah (SWT) Do not be Afraid of Anybody. Ibn Katthab (RA).

Offline usman11

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 02:27:03 PM »
EMTL,
I don't think you even comprehend what the issue at stake is here. Where in my write up did I mention that I am searching for any religion of peace or any religion for that matter? I am talking about about national security being ignored by the lameduck Nigerian government. I am talking about our country becoming an haven for religious terrorists that cross our borders into our country with no good intentions. Every civilized country on earth today is so protective of its borders. It is called territorial intergrity. As a nation of laws, it is imperative that we have an efficient immigration department and border patrol unit that accounts for anybody that comes our borders. This is the primary responsibility of any sound government. You need to know what kinds of people are entering and leaving your country and what their mission in your country is. If you fail in that primary obligation, then your nation is open to all kinds of illegal cross border activities that over time put that safety and stability of your nation at great risk. Is this a concept so difficult for you to understand? This is the core of the issue that CAN and other concerned Nigerians have raised, but for some rather mindbuggling reason you see it differently.

Here is what you wrote EMTL...."

Let me give an example of what happened sometimes ago:
1. During the life time of Abubakar Gumi- a Christian came to him and coverted to Islam, the man stayed in his house for almost a year and one day- in the presence of many people, while Mallam was preaching, he stood-up and said he wanted to make a very important confessing:
" I came here under the pretence of converting to Islam from chirstanity last year but TODAY wish to actually become a MUSLIM." People around where shocked and asked for explanation. he continued:

"I was actually sent by christian associan of neigeria (CAN) officials to pretend converting to Islam but only to gather intellegence- find out the secrets of Muslims- we (christians) were told by our leaders that Muslims are stockpiling weapons and allways planning to attack and harm non-Muslims but having stayed here for the last one year and after my thorough investigation I discovered that the assertion was FALSE- rather I found that Islam is actually the religion of Allah, religion of peace and brotherhood, that is why am now whole-heartedly converting to Islam". .

Mr. Usman if your mission is actually to find the TRUE RELIGION of ALLAH you would surely one day stop these blind rant and ramblings and become a Muslim; my Beloved Brother.


As the article clearly points out, year in and year out, there have been religious violence in the north perpertrated by the very Islamic extremists that this article warns about. You cannot deny that, however, rather than own up to the issue, you duck as usual by presenting this unsubstantiated story. Am I supposed to believe this bogus story?

Listen, if you want to have a discussion about the 'true' religion of allah, believe me, that is a discussion I can have with you on a different thread, and I will not throw in pointless made up and unverifiable stories to score points. I'll use your own Koran, Sunna, and the Hadith to make my point. Are you up for that challenge? Yes or NO? If not, I suggest you keep this discussion within its proper context.

Offline waduz

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 10:57:07 AM »
Usman11, I do not like engaging any one on religious matters, they are very sensitive matters, especially you, who it appears, hardly understands what is the real issue on the ground in the north of Nigeria. Let me quickly point out to you here, that ALL moslem believe that only Allah SWT gives His religion to whoever he wants. There is no power on earth that can convert any one to Islam by whatever means, unless if the Almighty Allah Wills! Preachers do not go about preaching inorder to get converts, but to educate the followers on the tenets of the religion.
Here in the north, the christians are falling on one another in a very aggressive and desperate way to get converts to their fold. In Islam, you only convert to it voluntarily and there after struggle on your own to continue being one or not. There is NO compulsion in religion. All this talk of moslems trying to Islamize any where here n the north, I swear, is just diversionary tactics. Majority of the christians errorneously believe that one day the whole population of the north will become moslems because of the daily rising number of converts coming to the fold. They therefore employ all manner of propaganda, un dicerphable and utter crass publications just to smear the Islamic religion. Infact, if moslems were to openly counter such crass lies of hues that cannot be substantiated, it will be like engaging the idle minds.
The most lamentable thing is that moslems are being denied recruitment into so many uniform jobs by our christians brothers for the only fear that they may become the majority in those formations, while they recruit their wards in their hundreds. Look at the numbers usually pulished in newspapers of successful intakes. We all know why this is so. It is because your people think that one day these uniformed men will be used to kill all moslems and thereby stopping the rapid spread of the religion. But what they do not know is that moslems are true believers of the WILL of the Almighty and destiny. No amount of abuse, denigration or intimidation can shake our belief in the MOST HIGH, ALLAH SWT. HE alone we worship, and to HIM we shall all return.
As for religious crisis in the north, I will disagree with you totally that moslems are killing christians unabated. If you look at the records of religious crisis in the north you will inadvertently discover that they start in areas where the moslem are in the minority. Look at the jos plateau that has overwhelming christians majority. It has witnessed, at least to my knowledge three chrisis, 2 in jos and 1 in shendam. Do you believe sincerely that moslems in those places started those crisis? How about kaduna? It is the same scenerio with the jos. Christians detest moslems living with them and their organized manner and way of life.
Have you heard, Usman11, reports have it that even the recent crisis in Bauchi organized just to divert attention and the heat from the jos crisis where fake soldiers and police used guns in killing moslems, including women and kids, and also to paint the innocent Bauchi moslems black.
Whenever a religious crisis erupts in places like kaduna, jos, shendam, numan, tafawa balewa etc, where christians are in the majority, the heavy moslem casualties attract repraisal attacks in moslem dominated areas of kano, bauchi etc. I have never heard about any crisis that emanates from these places, except a spill over. Let me tell you something, if such negative thinking published by CAN is true, then by now the whole christians comfortably living in the north would have hurriedly returned to the south and the moslems living there also returning in their thousands back to the north! But none is happenning! Please always believe in the truth and shame the devil!
That merceneries are are coming into Nigeria from Niger and Chad to help moslems fight christians is a whimsical illussion of a tiny black, religiously biased and racially oriented mind. It is also the thinking of a confused and unintelligent souls that have exhausted all avenues of defending themselves for the attrocities committed on the moslems in jos and are talking glibberishly in misconcieved tunes. They, ofcourse, like their fore-fathers are bound to fail. Every one knows, even the elderly christians know that northern nigeria moslems are arganized and vigorously pursuing their religious obligations as demanded of them. The moslems have better dressing codes for the females, they have organized and extensive system of learning, they marry with religious dedication and raise families to the dismay of those whose wish is to see their downfall.
What is truly needed in this country is understanding among religious adherents that religions are a way of morals and spritual wisdom. They teach harmony among peoples. They teach brotherhood and good neighborliness. We must realize that this country is the only we have, therefore we must cherish what we have and live harmoniously with one another. The christians tend to equate the moslem from the north of Nigeria with those in the middle east. Doing that will be a mistake of profound degree. First all, we are blacks and therefore generically, our thought and conducts differ a lot. Secondly, those in the mideast are dealing with political and land matters and not religion. Thirdly, we here are conservertives and sometimes uncivilized in our thinking and conduct. Forthly, our governments have total control on us, the law enforcement agents, the courts and the defence of our territorial boundries. We cannot, by any standards, be compared or labelled as terrorists like those in the mideast.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 11:00:08 AM by waduz »

Offline Lawwali

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 12:59:51 PM »
Welcome back Usman11,
I believe Usman11 you are highly interested in seeing Nigeria prospers as a developing economy free of Violence irrespective of whether religious or ethnic. Your contributions in this forum atleast portrays that.
  Really, the issues raised in the interview with Mr. Sa'idu Dogo did not bother in any way, because that is typical of Him, Rev. Fr Hassan Kukah and their likes in the CAN. Although, i must quickly add that many good spirited men and women of god are also part of CAN leadership.
 
I know that, the word terrorism though not new in the English Dictionery, cropped up in the wake of september 11 attack, and now every other person uses it to intimidate a seeming rival or rather Black-paint him- this is what exactly what Dogo tries to do in that interview ( i have no came across it). We should ask Question thus: why is it that it is only the kaduna axis CAN find faults in muslims in  Nigeria?.
 Usmam11, I just felt obliged to respond here because i Know you are not residing in Nigeria, and am not ready to allow any body to use any slight opportunity to paint the Northern Nigerian muslims Black.

1. The majority of population in Lagos, Ogun,Oyo and Ekiti states (all in the south) are muslims, But we have never had any religious crisis there, if you have any opportunity ask Mr. sa'idu Dogo.

2. To know some facts about the claims of Mr. Dogo on Youth being employed to be trained as terrorists from Niger,Chad and any west African muslims dominated country and that most of the okada operators in the north are purposely imported for training, and that all or most of them cannot understand any of the Nigerian language, then you to visit any of the Northern nIgerian states. I will here, just as you said, we have a useless country,( Sa'idu Dogo knows this fact better) for if the country's security is serious Dogo will have been called upon to make statement because he might have lead to these imaginary merceneries. May be as Waduz said, they (Dogo & CO) wanted to neutralises the cries that some fake security operatives were used in Jos against the muslims.

3.On Bauchi issues, if i were the governor, i will sue Dogo and whoever is behind the claims that the state government did nothing for thge displaced persons in various camps, and tht SEMA's presence was not felt. Because it was a BIGGEST LIE. I am currently in Bauchi, and i have in Bauchi since the monday which followed the weekend of the crisis. I also went through streets and seen what happened in the affected areas, and even blind man knows that NEMA,SEMA, Nigeria Red Cross are busy taking care of the displaced. where ever you go you will see them with their vehicles filled with either food items, fire wood, e.t.c. I went to a restaurant for lunch on hike of the crisis, there i met some officials of NEME & SEMA eating, i over heard some of them saying, "If not the selfishness of a man, how will fight with somebody and then cook for him when you found yourselves in refugee camps?" one of them commented further, "They kill one another and feed one another". If the presence of these relief agencies was not there how will these officials Know what happens on camps. Here also, Dogo tries to shows that it is not only plateau Governor who antagonizes citizens that are in the fold of his religion.

4. You recalled, i once said (in a thread on Ethnic & Religious crisis in the North) that some religious & ethnic leaders are promoting these differences to gain cheap popularity. You ask True Believers of Christ, they will tell you Who is Sa'idu Dogo? in politicizing religion.

 I want to believe that the whole issue boils down to the fact that they want to NEutralise the atrocities of Jos metted on muslims.
 May ALLAH save Nigeria.
it takes oppressed and oppressor for oppression to occur

Offline usman11

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 05:12:38 PM »
Waduz, you keep missing the point. I DO NOT CARE who or what you worship. I have made this clear over and over again, yet you don't get it. Your religious belief or non belief is of no consequence to me. I respect your right to worship. I respect your right to assemble, and to practise your faith. I don't have to agree with any of it, and you don't have to agree with my beliefs or non beliefs either. The crux of the matter is when your actions put the lives of other people at risk, especially when those actions are inspired by your beliefs. I said previously that Nigeria is a nation of laws. Many people obviously do not want Nigeria to be a nation governed by laws because their preference is anarchy. Maybe you are one of those people, but I am not. Let me state here again, that I believe in the rights of all man whether Muslim, Christian, Buddhists, Animist, African Traditionists, etc. The life of everyone of those people are precious, and they all deserve to live peacefully without fear or intimidation from anyone. I do not care if a man converts from Islam to paganism or vice versa. The Nigerian people deserve to live in peace. They also deserve to live in a progressive society that actually functions. They deserve a society where they live and pursue their dreams and aspirations to the best of their ability. These may not be expressed ideas you are used to hearing, but these are guiding principles of the more successful societies and you should want the same success for your country.

Lawwali, the term terrorism predates 9/11. The Europeans have had their fair share of terrorism going back to the 70s and even 80s when Middle East terrorists would often hijack planes in European Airspace, set off bombs in buildings, or Kidnapp Westerners for ransome. September 5th, 1972, Palestinian terrorists broke into the Olympic village in Munich, killed Israeli 2 Israeli Olympians, and kidnapped 9 others. Later on, they killed 4 of the hostages before being killed by German police. Two months later, a German Airliner was hijacked. So the idea that prior to 9/11, terrorism never existed is a wash. The difference is that 9/11 opened a lot of eyes and changed national security policies not just in America, but in most of the civlized World.

The Kaduna axis CAN as you refer to them are not finding fault in the Muslims. This organization raised an important alarm over what it sees to be dangerous development in the north. For one, the organization is based right there, and given the murderous history of the religious establishment in the north, I am not surprised at the sense of awareness they've adopted.

And you are right, you should not allow anyone to use situations to paint Northern Nigerian Muslims black. But they are black....(lol) However, your very next paragraph referencing the populations of Lagos, Ogun, etc. underscores your comment about Northern Muslims. Like you pointed out, there is a significant Muslim population in the Western states of Lagos, Ogun, Oyo, Ekiti, but there's hardly any conflict with non Muslims. This has always been the case going back several decades. So what is the logical conclusion? I would conclude that the Southern Muslims are not fanatical, they are not insane, they are not prone to violence, they can actually coexist with non Muslims, they can agree to disagree without physical confrontation. They, the southern Muslims understand those ideals of personal liberty that I listed in my first paragraph. This is why I make the distinction when I accuse Northern Muslims of spearheading violence and intolerance. Now, maybe they are not all guilty, but they sure are responsible given their denial and collective complacency like I have witnessed in this forum where people try to put a spin on crimes against humanity.

And let's be honest here for a second, do Northern Muslims really consider their southern brothers/sisters to be "real" Muslims? But you helped make my point by pointing out that religious violence is rare in those southern states even though there is a 'majority' Muslim population.

In regards to your second point, the security forces cannot demand that Dogo produce proof of his claims.  That is not his job. They've not come out to refute his claims have they? The issue of dangerous illegal immigrants from Niger and Chad crossing our borders into Nigerian territory cannot be refuted. This is a known fact that has been going on for years. Several papers have published stories of criminal misconduct perpetrated on our soil by foreigners from Chad and Niger. I posted a story here a while ago where Herdsmen from Niger had ransacked 10 villages in Ogun, raped 2 women, and set farms on fire, terrorising the villagers who became displaced as a result of the violence. None of you bothered to respond or comment on that story. I wonder why. Lawwali, if people from Niger are crossing over to Nigerian states in the north in droves, does it bother you or not? I understand that these people are ethnic hausa or fulanis, but they are from a different country. Why is it ok for them to freely enter our country? Can you as a Nigerian freely enter any country?

You said if you were Governor of Bauchi, you would sue Mr. Dogo for what? Defamation? Lies? Listen, have you sued any of those persons responsible for the conflict in the first place? Do you not think your moral priorities are out of sync by going after a citizen that accuses you of non action, rather than the ones that created the chaos in the first place? I am not sure what the acronym SEMA and NEME represent but I imagine they are some type of emergency response organization. If that's what they, they are being misutilized. The Governor of the state cannot under any moral imperative order anyone's arrest except the perpetrators of the carnage.

I think you need to understand, and Waduz (I'll respond to you seperately) needs to understand that irrespective of who manipulates who or what, there has to be accountability and consequencies for ones actions. To simply always present the redundant argument that some behind the scene character is pulling the strings on these conflict is old argument. That logic has not changed anything, and the violence continues. Then have that shady character and all his/her accomplices arrested. Have all those involved arrested, tried, and executed if found gulty to taking someone's life. Let law and order previal and let's set aside all these pointless nuances. How about that? How about it Lawwali? Do you agree with that?

You know I shared my frustration of the Northern Nigerian situation with other equally frustrated Nigerians. I told them, I am at a loss why you guys cannot see why it is absolutely insane to go through this cycle of vicious killings over and over rather than settling grievance in the law courts if there are grievances at all. Some opined that you guys cannot understand because your holy books mandates you to make war with non Muslims, and to never be at peace with them. They also say those that fail to uphold this mandate are not considered true Muslims.

Now, I would let you respond to that. Maybe they those opinions took things out of context, but explain to me why you and others cannot just condemn killing and demand that all perpetrators of religious violence christian or Muslim, pagan or animist, be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law regardless of personality, position, influence, wealth, power, etc.

I look forward to reading your response. Thank you in advance.

Usman11

Offline MySeLf

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 12:49:46 AM »
Welcome back Usman11,
I believe Usman11 you are highly interested in seeing Nigeria prospers as a developing economy free of Violence irrespective of whether religious or ethnic. Your contributions in this forum atleast portrays that.
  

Hahaha lol Lawwali.... If the above statement is true then I reckon usman should pack and move to nigeria and make great contribution in his area of speciality....
For now the nigeria that he care so much for is not benefiting from his ranting behind a computer screen in his comfy chair from secure US lol...
His repetitive ranting is nothing but chin fuska and rashin kunya :P,, "Get your friend waduz to translate for you ete" ;D....(Allah yasa waduz!! >:() ...........;D ;D
Gradually you will get to know that if he is new to you lawwali....
!!!........................I STAND 4 ISLAM..........................!!!

Offline usman11

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 04:06:45 PM »
Interesting reaction Myself. It is typical of you though to always focus your cynism on personalities rather than on responding to issues raised. Is it that you have nothing to contribute or that you lack meaningful ideas to share? Show me the rants that you ascribe to my writings? Is it ranting to denounce violence and repeat violence? Is it ranting for wanting Nigeria to be transformed into truly functional society where people can live without fear and are able to pursue their aspirations? Is it ranting to want a society where public safety and security are of great priority? Is than ranting? Yes, I care about Nigeria because what happens in Nigeria impacts me and other Nigerians abroad one way or the other. But you don't understand that connection because you can't see beyond your nose. Well, let me help you understand why and how I am impacted. Imagine if a friend or family member of mine is murdered in one of those religious genocides, and their homes destroyed by the rampaging mob (the ones that believe their actions are in defense of their faith), I and many of others are left to grieve with them, and to assist the remaining survivors in picking up the pieces. Aside from the emotional distress, I have to cough up my hard earned money to help them get back on their feet and rebuild their lives. If as a result of the senseless attack, someone I know lands in hospital, who do you think they contact for assistance with the medical bills? To make matters worse, your hospitals are not even very functional, and as such, there is a real possibility that they brutalized victim may never make it. Are you begining to get the picture or am I still ranting?

I do not have to relocate to Nigeria to help make it work. You are there, yet you can't make it work. If anything, you make it worse with some of the logic I've seen you express here. I along with other Nigerians do travel to Nigeria as often as we can, but we are not the ones screwing up the country. When some of your elected representatives visit the US, we do consult with them as individuals and as an organization. We also in very clear terms express our disgust at many of the failures under their watch. The issue is not about going back to contribute one's ideas or expertise. The real question is whether the country is ready to change and chart a different course. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. That is Nigeria for you. You guys do the same things repeatedly and wonder why nothing changes for the better. Obviously you are insane based on the above definition. 

3 Nigerian doctors from Atlanta left their lucrative practices here and went back to Nigeria with the hope of 'changing' things. All three became so frustrated with the static and resistant system that they eventually returned to the US. These are not isolated cases mind you. It appears that many Nigerians are fine with the status quo and with the dysfunctional nature of the Nigerian society. Since that is the case, the redundant notion that 'going back' will solve anything is simply false.

Just to give you an example, Myself, you don't seem to comprehend why it is detrimental to your country to continually remain rooted in religious and ethnic tormoil. You think it is justifiable for people to kill others if they feel their religion has been trampled on. You obviously think conflict is ok, and despite the very clear reasons I have given why such criminal behavior should not be condoned, I have not been able to help you see the light. So what exactly will my going home accomplish? If I were to 'go home' what kind of initiatives do you think would make up my agenda if not the ones I have been expressing here?
Now, are you still lauging? Your President recently attempted to demonstrate his marketing skills when he opined that Nigeria was rebranding. His sales pitch was this "Good people, great nation". Can you sell anyone with such a lame sales pitch? Again, like a dog chasing its tail, you fail to eliminate the repeat conflicts in your country. You fail to hold violent religious offenders to account. You have the recent Jos incident. You have corruption in high places, Kidnappings, defficient law enforcement department, inefficient public service system, and all other issues that ought to be fixed, yet your President embarks on a PR campaign that makes no sense given the fact that the situations responsible for the nation's negative image are very real and unresolved. What's the definition of insanity again?

So Myself, are you still laughing? Or do you need an interpreter to explain what I just written to you? Perhaps you should ask my good friend Lawwali. I'm sure he'll be kind enough to break it down for you in small doses.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2009, 12:29:18 AM »
Usman. You speak a lot of truth but you'll not get many sensible answers . There are too many people in Nigeria who cannot face these truths and think that anyone telling the truth about Nigeria has to be attacked.
maigemu

Offline MySeLf

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2009, 03:36:59 PM »
Usman11
Unfortunately  Nigeria will not develop when people like you who has this huge interest on it progress decided to desert it for what ever reasons...

Unfortunately repeating yourself over and over on computer screen will not do that either...... People are getting tired of your ranting and not replying if you notice.

And this denouncing violence that you keep repeating, we too had denounced it same way you do, many people here had done that am sure,,,check the archive I'm sure you will find many condemnation,,,, So?

And next time write in Ibibio then you can send your B**** to translate for me ;) :P ;D ;D
!!!........................I STAND 4 ISLAM..........................!!!

Offline Lawwali

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2009, 05:23:18 PM »
USMAN11,
 I am about to highlight to you why the Southern christians have no much problem with muslims over there when it is time for me to leave office and eventually travel out of Bauchi.

You may be interested to know that Northern Christian clerics (not all, Dogo & his likes) use religion as a business, they thinks their relevance remains only when they make noise or fake claims and crying wolf where there is none.Also i am not saying it was his job to to show the security agencies these merceneries, but as a Nigerian who first made the claim should substantiate it. Because it is a serious security issue.

Unfortunately, I did not found your last response (to me in particular) lopsided, Because; You showed absolute agreement with what Dogo Claims; for your insistance that mercenaries crosses from Niger and chad republics who are Hausa & fulanis (and ofcourse muslims?). We knew as everybody did, that neighbouring citizens croses our porous boarders including those of camerouns,e.t.c who are eventually not Hausas or fulanis and ofcourse not muslims. But my denial is that somebody here imported those guys in the name islamic terrorism(sic), and that all the Okada operators in the north forms large part of these imported terrorists(sic). That is why i said you needed to come down to Nigeria with free mind such that you can be able to figure things out for yourself. I equally found your position on this discourse strange. Because, you already shown as if you are out for something.

With regard to Your question whether Northern muslims regard southern muslims as brothers and sisters, If i said yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it is under statement, Because in islam nobody decides who is a muslim but oneself, you also needed to come down and see for yourself.

I will use medium to invite you to come to Nigeria at my entire expense, to conduct a thorough research on issues we discusses in this forum just for you to see things. Unlike myself, i will not ask you to pack down home untill you are ready to so. But as she said Nigeria needs you badly. I will cap by Quoting General Buhari " THIS GENERATION OF NIGERIANS, AND INDEED THE FUTURE GENERATIONS HAVE NO ANY OTHER COUNTRY THAN NIGERIA, LET'S PUT HEAD AND SALVAGE IT TOGETHER"
it takes oppressed and oppressor for oppression to occur

Offline usman11

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 04:43:59 PM »
David, thanks for your views. Myself, why should I write in Ibibio? I write in simple English yet you fail to comprehend my writings, what then is the point of writing in a second language that would confuse you even further? And due to your gross inability to comprehend, you resort to using vulgarities. It sure says a lot about your maturity.

Lawwali, sorry for the late response, and thank you by the way for your generous offer. I will take it into consideration. To also highlight some of the assertions you made about Northern Christians being religious opportunists, I cannot speak to that charge Lawwali. I cannot presume to know the motives behind someone's religious expressions and practises. That is not the point however. As I have stated several times, I support everyone's right to practise what they believe, and I would defend that right even if I do not believe in what they believe in. What I have a problem with is when one person or group of persons use persons commit violence on others and justify that violence in the name of their belief or religion.

I would disagree with you that the Northern Christian leadership is seeking relevance by raising alarm over suspicious activities they witness in the region. In the past several decades, we've had an average of 1.2 religious conflicts. This trend is not declining. You and others often try to downplay the seriousness and impact of these incidents claiming that politicians with ulterior agendas are really behind it. Keep in mind however, that under Military dictatorships in Nigeria, religious attacks and violence did not cease. They were just as prevailent then as they are under civlian rule. Am I wrong?

I am with you that we ought to work together for the good of ALL Nigerians irrespective of our ethnic origins, religious affiliations, backgrounds, etc. We ought to think fairness for all parties. But we cannot achieve this important first step if we are complacent on the very serious issue of public safety. In reference to my border comment, I have a strong feelings about that because it ties directly to national security. If militants are allowed free passage into our territories, what good can possibly come out of that? If the militants are to engage in criminal behavior on our territory, who will they be hurting? Nigerians of course. We need to learn to set aside all these tribal and religious biase and really begin to respect and value one another. The reason why the rest of the World has little regard for Nigerians within and without has a lot to do with how we treat each other. Religion and ethnicity has so robbed Nigerians of common sense and of their identity to the point that fairness, unity, and reason has been thrown out the window.

Not too long ago, a young Nigerian student in East Europe was brutally murdered by racist skin heads. I posted that news here, and not many people bothered to comment. That incident wasn't isolated. A buddy I used to correspond with named Yanzu who lived in Ukraine at the time detailed the kind of abuses Nigerian and other African students suffer in the hands of locals. What has been the response of our government? I hear that even in Western Europe, the treatment of Nigerians isn't much different either. So I ask myself in retrospect, why would others respect us anyway when we have no problems killing and maiming our own people because of differences or misunderstanding over religion or ethnicity? How can we complain and be taken seriously when we've shown through our actions that we don't care about our own people?

I think we have to be honest with ourselves Lawwali if we are to make any progress. We need to have workable solutions to all situations of differences. That is absolutely possible. This is core of my ideology. Some people may like to think of it as 'noise' or 'ranting'. If they have better ideas on how to engage the problems we face, I'll be more than happy to hear those ideas.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 12:17:48 AM »
The wise old men who set up amd ruled the first repulic understood how important it was for Nigeria, with all its religious tensions, to be a secular state. Too many zealots have ignored the wisdom of their actions.
maigemu

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Re: Northern Nigeria becoming haven for extremist and terrorist?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 10:50:27 AM »
I really enjoyed reading this thread.

Usman11, I like your writings. Keep it up.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

 


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