Assalamu Alaikum,
This is a message to all Muslims including our scholars, traditional and civilian leaders that it is an obligatory duty upon everyone to uplift our religion with our votes in the forth coming elections especially the presidential which is the most controversial one. We must strive to see our president is a Muslim. Surely, with our prayers, campaign, preaching Allah shal be with us.
Brother in Islam
Nabeel B. Sa'id
Assalamu Alaikum
First of all Nabeelu what you wrote is very true and it remains to be seen whether the muslim voters will be disillusioned once more by OBJ's muslim stooges. We must elect Muslims because they think like we do.
Allah ya taimakemu.
PS: Nabilu B Sa'id are shafiu's brother from BUK. If yes then I am Muhammad kanin Ismail your classmate in BUK staff secondary school. I look foward to hearing from you soon.
Bissalam
I higly disagree........in some way he is ryt but d opposite of ryt has 2 b wrong.
U c if d place where d election is 2 b takin place is a muslim dominated country then I can say trully a muslims leader shud b on d lead. On d other hand, we have d christians & other religion that r not really widely known in Africa. R we 2 ignore d fact that they 2 wud love 2 have their president worshippin d same God as they du?
We can have muslim leaders & elect our leaders not only in politics.!!!!!!!!!!!!! There r so many wayz we can uplift our religion. U can make a big difference, (dont gimme that look) Yes u........d author....... get a mike go out preach, donate 2 muslim charities, indulge Muslims in Islamic activities so on.....etc etc.
So ppl like Ahmad Deedat, who I can call a muslim leader, who has made a difference in ppls life, who has indeed uplifted Islam, shud in no way, have been elected rather than thru politics!!!!!!!!!!
Votin muslim leaders as politicians with other religious rivals!!!! That wud have been a ludacris decision. By doin so........it might land us in jeopardy, another chaos, another trouble riots!!! in d sense that all muslims shud vote 4 no other than muslim>>>..Haba it will cause so many calamities.
Politics r almost as xcitin as war & quite dangerous. In war u can only b killed once, but in politics- many tyms.
So wat makes u think if we shud vote & @ d end of d day a muslim gets 2 b elected as d nxt president. Wat makes u think 2morow a mulsim will still b voted 4, & other religion will will not think like we du (in ur words)?
Of course 1 wud b happy 2 c a muslim leader. Lets b considerate though. Idan hekar ne, then christians will want theirs 2....
wat nxt? categorisin Muslim presidents as 4 d sunnis, Shi'ah only or roman catholics president.
All we need is a gud leader. Religon shudnt cum in2 this. Politics vs religon kuma :o Show!!!
Puhleeeeeeeeeeeeez keep our religion out of this. Juss maintain d religion as a muslim. Election shud carry on, whoeva win it. He shud b a gud leader & we shud b gud followers.
D lurd almighty knows best
Ummita I'm with U. But if we think that the muslim person that we are electing is going to do the right thing then that should be our target. there are some muslim politician who claim the religion but some of the things they do a muslim person will not do it. politics is not an easy thing especally for muslim people because there's justice and you cannot yaudari people just because you find politics to be your way of having a good living. if you look clearly in the history of nigeria we have more muslim president than any other religion, but have they done anything according to their religion? I doubt, it seems as if they are in power they forget that there's somebody above them ALLAH is there but they just don't get it. so all I am saying is that you always have to understand a politician to see if he's really what he said he is. if not dukka za ayi biyu babu ne.
allah ya zabar mana mafi alheri a gare mu baki daya
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This message was initially in the Islamic column, I don't know for what reason it was moved to the general board by the admin. Please check and see..
But you should remember that if there are a thousand people who are non-Muslims and only one happens to be a Muslim the only Muslim is supposed to be their leader..
Who so ever votes a non-Muslim must be held for it in the hereafter..
These are not my sayings..but very sorry to say that..
You gurls no sey its unIslamic for a person to vote a nonMuslim as his leader, and yur talkn bout population Nija is over 50% muslim dominated , HAba ai ko domin iskancin da Obas' yake yi baza mu zabi Arne ba. Nigeria sai Buhari da Yardan Allah.
Goodfella you are so tight. I'm not a good fan for obasanjo either. I still didn't see the dramactic change people are talking about.
Change.. u mean uve not noticed any change or maybe u dont live in Nigeria,lemmi tell u A liter of Petrol is now Around N38 (no stable price) it was N11 during Abachas regime,excluding Abuja All other cities in Northern Nigeria face problems of fuel scarcity cos i cant recall when last i bought fuel from the fillin station in bauchi.The Budget allocation to the educational sector is under 2% it was 12% under the military so now all the Universities are on strike, Prices o ffood stuffs have hiked up so I hear cos i dont buy,but lemmi give u an examle with Coke, in 1999 a bottle of Coke sold btw N10-N15 depending on the place but now it sells for N25-N30.
Nepa is worse than ever ,a few weeks back the transformer in our area got blown we had to spend two weeks in total darkness.
To be continued.......
sorry godfella, there was a mis spelling in my comment above, I meant to say that you are so right. everything right now is going bad :'( instead of better. so I just pray to Allah(SWT) to help our nation :'(
Allah Ya bamu zaman lafiya da wadata akasar nan tamu Nigeria. Allah Ya bamu Shugabanni na gari. Allah Ya bamu Musulmai a cikin su. Wanda ba musulmai bane kuma Allah Ya musultar dasu. Allah Ya kade mana tsautsayi da asara kuma Ya kara mana fahimtar juna. Masifu da bala'i da suke addabar Nigeria Allah Ya kade mana su.
Allahumma Salli ala Mohammadin wa ala ahlihi wa as habihi wa sallim.
Quote
Who so ever votes a non-Muslim must be held for it in the hereafter..
These are not my sayings..but very sorry to say that..
are u sure?? ?? ?? ?? where in the Qur'an does it state so?...
i'm sorry... but if i see Nigeria is going to elevate with a xtian leader.. i'll vote for him..
most of these "muslim" leaders are juss muslim "by name"..
i dunno much about nigerian history and the presidents (ok, i know close to nuthin), but wasnt buhari one of the people tryin' to supress Islam during his rule?? ba ya so a hana yin wa'azi or sumthing like that ba? abeg.. no crucify meeh... i'm juss askin' and want to clarify....
Quote? ?You gurls no sey its unIslamic for a person to vote a nonMuslim as his leader, and yur talkn bout population Nija is over 50% muslim dominated , HAba ai ko domin iskancin da Obas' yake yi baza mu zabi Arne ba. Nigeria sai Buhari da Yardan Allah.
correction... Obasanjo is
not an "arne".. he's
not an unbeliever... he's xtian, meaning "People of the Scriptures"...{People of the Book}
some Muslims really need to be AWARE of that...
u could get commision of al-haqqi fa!
no where in the Qur'an does it say not to vote for a non-muslim... how are u so sure that the muslim u voted for is all we need...
plz.. na tolerance we dey aim for... something the Qur'an preaches!
Yes i made a mistake callin him an arne but no way should a muslim choose an unbeliever as his leader.A person that will compromise his religious beliefs .and ?ure juss tryin to side with this guy cos u dont know the true situation of things down here.
U cant juss stand up & say "ryt everybody...I mean all muslims...u either vote 4 a muslim....or I will see or call u an unbeliever"!!!!
As I have stated earlier on, there r about 3 or so diff types of religion in Nija & Nija is not only a muslim dominated country.
So...say if I want 2 vote 4 say........Jessiah & not Mallam Garba it makes me an unbeliever.... I have neva come across eni verse in d Qur'an which speaks of vote 4 muslims only 2 uplift Islam talkless of if u vote 4 a non muslim U r an unbeliever or a phegan?!!!
Gracious Lurd, when will ppl juss practise ISLAM as it is without associatin it with social, political & wateva mattas.
If Kano was only 4 muslims by muslims then a muslim shud lead, but as their are other religion apart from Islam then I say we reconsider.........
ISLAM - POLITICS = ISLAM ON ITS OWN
i'm quite bemused at what i'm hearing on this thread. "We must strive to see our president is a Muslim". We've had a good number of 'muslim' rulers, and what fantastic job did they do for Nigeria in their time? maybe those don't qualify because they were dictators. Shagari was a 'muslim' president, and what did he do for naija?
Amin said, "we must elect Muslims because they think like we do". Really? So i guess buhari, being a ' muslim' automatically gets your vote? Assuming self-declared evil genius IBB was running, u'd vote for him too, right? So if it was good old Abacha vs. OBJ, you'd like to see Abacha back in office, since he is (or should i say, was) a 'muslim'? So IBB, Abacha and all their 'muslim' cohorts, were thinking just like you when they jointly looted the national treasury, scattered it all over the world, killed and tortured innocent people, clamped down on human rights, squashed opposition, and helped bring Nigeria into the mess it is in now? Or aren't these people 'muslims'?
Maybe christians should likewise vote en masse for 'born-again christian' OBJ regardless of his record. pscheew >:(
Guys, when are we going to learn that religion + politics is a very bad idea, esp. when the country is multireligious? Should we wait until Nigeria becomes another Sudan b4 we realize that religion in politics is just a platform for a greedy, power-hungry politician to manipulate the poverty-stricken, illitereate masses? Half of the political conflict we find in our world today is as a result of religious conflict. Maybe some of us should go and see what's happening in Sudan. This is a presidential election we're talking about. It not a race for Pope, or Imam or some religious title. Why should the candidate's faith be of importance?
Let's ditch this idea for good. After countless wars in the Middle Ages the Europeans came to the same conclusion and dumped the idea. It's high time we did the same.
P.S. Note that i used the word muslim in quote marks.
I think the ruling on the election of a non-muslim is such that when faced with no option but non-muslims you chose the one that is more linient and religious tolerant and vote him but in the event of a muslim amongst non-muslims or muslims and christians you must vote the muslim. For only a muslim can protect your faith. Ask people that work in OPA other pilgrim agencies and you'll know why voting a muslim is essential. No subsidy is given to any pilgrim now.
I seriuosly believe that it is unIslamic to vote a non-muslim. Boomer comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
QuoteI think the ruling on the election of a non-muslim is such that when faced with no option but non-muslims you chose the one that is more linient and religious tolerant and vote him but in the event of a muslim amongst non-muslims or muslims and christians you must vote the muslim. For only a muslim can protect your faith. Ask people that work in OPA other pilgrim agencies and you'll know why voting a muslim is essential. No subsidy is given to any pilgrim now.
I seriuosly believe that it is unIslamic to vote a non-muslim. Boomer comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have two questions for you. Firstly, if in an election you had a 'muslim' and a 'christian' candidate and the best man happens to be the 'christian', wouldn't Allah want the best man to rule? or is the 'muslim' better by default?
Secondly, how would you rank the following issues in order of importance? corruption, the economy, privatization, resource control and pilgrimage subsidies?
No matter how good a Christian may be there is no way he will prefer your religion to his, hence that judgement. Furthermore there have been evidences world over that Muslims leading a multi religious state are more tolerant than their Christian counterparts. Perharps you need to know that no matter how secular a state is religion plays a role and there are situations where the state interferes into religious matters. In such instances the average tendency of any human being is to identify with his side.
Killing or removing subsidies does not mean econmic recovery and even the biggest advocates of capitalism support their people with subsidies. I think subsidy is used to help the people and for pilgrims especially Nigerians it reduces their being converted to beggers in the streets of Makka and Madina. Similarly the subsidies may not be in cash or fare but also in ensuring that adequate administrative backing is given to ensure a hitch free Hajj programme. This Government is the first to completely hands off Hajj Programa dn since then it has become increasingly difficult for muslims to fulfill one of the pillars of their faith.
If you have been on Hajj recently you'll agree with me that Nigeria's is the most diorganised and disarranged contingent especially when it is time to come back home. I believe it is wiser to vote the person you know and as a Muslim it is most appropriate to vote your brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
QuoteFurthermore there have been evidences world over that Muslims leading a multi religious state are more tolerant than their Christian counterparts. Perharps you need to know that no matter how secular a state is religion plays a role and there are situations where the state interferes into religious matters. In such instances the average tendency of any human being is to identify with his side.
Killing or removing subsidies does not mean econmic recovery and even the biggest advocates of capitalism support their people with subsidies. I think subsidy is used to help the people and for pilgrims especially Nigerians it reduces their being converted to beggers in the streets of Makka and Madina. Similarly the subsidies may not be in cash or fare but also in ensuring that adequate administrative backing is given to ensure a hitch free Hajj programme. This Government is the first to completely hands off Hajj Programa dn since then it has become increasingly difficult for muslims to fulfill one of the pillars of their faith.
If you have been on Hajj recently you'll agree with me that Nigeria's is the most diorganised and disarranged contingent especially when it is time to come back home. I believe it is wiser to vote the person you know and as a Muslim it is most appropriate to vote your brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Can you please cite the 'evidences world over' that show that 'Muslims in multi-religious states are more tolerant than their Christian counterparts'? Because I can mention off the top of my head several countries - some of which i've actually lived in - where that is not quite the case. and btw, that includes Nigeria!
Also, i don't think you need to go to Hajj to know that our continent is in very bad shape. btw, you never directly answered my two questions; however i will ask you more: are there any other important issues to you besides Hajj? Secondly, would you willingly usher in another buhari, IBB or Abacha, just because they, being 'muslim' would be more favorable to Hajj subsidies?
p.s. i would like you to read this article http://odili.net/news/source/2003/jan/14/121.html
cuz i noticed you said in another thread that no-one can prove Abacha was a bad man and that since he is dead no-one should speak ill of him! >:(
I am a muslim, I dont know what you are. As a muslim I believe my primary role as a creature of the Almighty Allah is to Worship Him. Hajj is partof worship like Prayer, Fasting and Zakkat (stipulated alms muslims give yearly). Hajj is just an example I am giving, I want to vote for a leader that will not just to fulfill my role as a creature of the Almighty Allah but to also assist me in whatever way possible towards that either through subsidies or anything and it is my believe that a Muslim will do more, go to any lenght to ensure that I am pushed towards my life objective than a Christian. PERIOD!!!!!!
I have already answered your last question but to say it cartegorically for you to understand I'll rather have Abacha, IBB or Buhari than Obasanjo. And by the Grace of the Almighty Allah and if I am alive I'll vote for Buhari except if somebody comes to the scene that I think is better than him.
I have read the story on the loot recovery. I understand that all it takes to be bad is to die and come from the North not to steal Government Funds. What about all the other people that are alive today why is Switzerland silent. I get frustrated by the attempt to paint all Northerners as thieves or corrupt as if we dont know what is happenning now that the Southerners have come. Please cool down take it easy the swiss are still suspecting let them prove something first!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gee. u'd rather have Abacha, Buhari, or IBB. unbelievable :o
ok... things are heating up.. u do realize all of u can go on and on and on and frustrate urself for nuthing right?
so plz stop this bickering...
voting a non-muslim is NOT unislamic... and if i see nigeria better with a xtian leader... i'll vote for him...
i'm wit' ummita on this one.
if a xtian is prez.. it wont stop u from praying, wont stop u from going to the mosque, wont stop u from raising ur family right, it just wont stop u from performing ur religious duties...
as for whut abu stated about the hajj.. why wont the muslims in the govt do something about it?... dont blame it on the president alone.
i mean c'mon.. a good person is a good person... every religion got good and bad people... let's pray for the best!
ALL OF US!
i strongly believe that reliong and politics must be separated in the interest of peace and stability in this country.those clamouring for buharis presidency shud bear in mind that if muslims were to vote for only muslims and vice varsa,then thier candidate cannot win the elections bcos he also needs nonmuslim votes to enable him gain absolute majority.i strongly advise that we shud not islamise this elections,weshud make sure people are voted into office based on credibility and not religion.
Quotei strongly believe that reliong and politics must be separated in the interest of peace and stability in this country.those clamouring for buharis presidency shud bear in mind that if muslims were to vote for only muslims and vice varsa,then thier candidate cannot win the elections bcos he also needs nonmuslim votes to enable him gain absolute majority.i strongly advise that we shud not islamise this elections,weshud make sure people are voted into office based on credibility and not religion.
hear, hear!
Sorry Sir Bash, I cant agree with you. My religion-Islam is sent to me via the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) as a complete way of life. This means that there is no separation between politics and religion. You cant separate religion from politics. That's why the Holy Prophet (SAW) was a the Head of the Muslim State and the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces as well as the Chief Imam that leads the prayers and the overall religious leader. And all the Caliphs that lead the muslim state after him acted the same way. And they governed as commanded by Allah (SWT) in the Holy Qur'an. Islam cannot be isolated from politics.
Intersting indeed...
I think you are all missing the point here.
Democracy in the first place is a system of the unbelievers! It has no connection whatsoever with Islam. It completely contradicts the rules of Islam whether in the comprehensive or partial issues, in the source from which it came, in the 'Aqeedah from which it emanated, in the basis on which it is established and in the thoughts and systems it has brought. It is a system whose source is human beings and it has no connection to devine revelation or religion.
The people are masters over themselves such that they can exercise their sovereignty and run thier will entirely by themselves by enacting laws and systems of life and choosing thier rulers without any pressure or compulsion. The general freedoms are the foundations and democracy obliges that they are provided for every individual of the community in order to realise his sovereignty, exercise his will and run himself with absolute freedom and without any pressure or compulsion.
The general freedoms are represented in the 4 freedoms which are:
- Freedom of belief
- Freedom of opinion
- Freedom of ownership
- Personal freedom
So in the strict Islamic sense it is forbidden for muslims to adopt, implement or call for it. The question of voting for a muslim or non-muslim becomes irrelivant since he shouldn't be there in the first place, and if he is he isn't there because of islam.
In total agreement. As muslims therefore we must reject the system but does that mean we should not vote and even get a registration card?
The question of what a muslim should or should not do is a different ball game entirely and I dont think we should go into it in this part of the forum.
Well.....I c alot have contributed immensly.....But we all gat to stop all this ranting........We can sit and talk it over all day long....But wat good will it do? Is there anyone of you here that can make a difference with the politics thing going on? B it Abacha, Obj OR WHUEVA we'd had as leaders...........they've ruled & their life span on being leaders is ova or myt b ova. DEPOSED & DISPOSED!!!!!!
All I know is that afta this election is done & dusted with...........only d one with a high vote will turn out to b d president, whether we like it or not.Wherther we are in support or not. Its not up to just an individual to judge who he or she wants to b as d president of Nigeria. So I say we adjust & accept d fact that only one president will take to sit..........whether buhari followers or Obj followers agree or diagree with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I say you all need to calm down!!!
And I still stand on my grounds............this is with regards to voting 4 muslims..... b/4 others diversified d subject matter ::)
How on earth.....or where was it stated that if I vote 4 a christian it makes me an unbeliver or if a christian votes 4 a muslim it makes he or she an unbeliver. When will such issues; such as putting religion with so many ridiculous thing like this socalled politics come to a halt?
Cant we just maintain our religion as it is.
MHMMM dont b suprised to see anoda topic saying that "u either lower d price of food stuff or it makes u an unbeliver"..................
Ummita, take it or leave it the way we are governed and the rules we are subjected to are parts of the religion, they cannot be separated ( a way of life, remember???) thats just the way the religion is!!
Agree 2 disagree, d way we r governed & all its subjection, which cannot b seperated...as u've stated is by no means d way Nija is governed. Tell me as how????
If u say.........Our regilion governs or shud govern Nija.........say Kano 4 instance where by it is ONLY a muslim dominated state.........& not where we have about 2-3 practised religons...then I myt reconsider. If @ all r livin in a state r ONLY muslims then of course, y not have a muslim leader........ U know 4 a fact that obviously all religions or any religion wud not oblige 2 see that a leader who gets that presidential position is of d same practisin groups as they themselves r...........Anywayz y bother........whu eva gets 2 b president.........is d PRESIDENT......
Nefink can change that!!!! So let election continue......those in support of a candidate fyn....those that r not in support...fyn!!! It still works out 2.........some1 will b d president. So as I said CALM DOWN PPL :D
Hehehehehe... Ummita if you read my 1st posting on this topic you will see that i said maganar zaben muslim or non-muslim in this case bata taso ba, because democracy is not approved of in islam. Which implies choose a muslim or non-muslim you are on your own.
Secondly separating state from religion is a different thing. In Islam state and religion are one.... if you are disapproving of this then its another issue. I think we are all calm here... ;)
The idea of politics and religion being one in islam is a thought that occured to me a long time ago. Perhaps that explains why a good deal of all religious conflicts in the world involve islam.
Anyone having a hard time rationalizing ummita's position on religion and politics should ?go and ?find out what is happening in Sudan today and how it all started. Go to yahoo.com, type in 'the Lost Boys of Sudan' and read articles about them. their story is enough to make you cry. Then ask yourselves if this is what you want Nigeria to be 20 yrs from now.
(p.s. there's a movie coming out march 7 called 'tears in the sun' starring bruce willis; it's based in nigeria and is quite demeaning to the country's image. however, it seems this story is somewhat based on the story of the lost boys of sudan, except that instead of using sudan, the story is applied to Nigeria!)
If you love Nigeria, you'd vote for either Gani Fawehinmi or Ojukwu(well i guess his biafra legacy hurts his chances here, unfortunately).
I have to agree with Lionger on one hand and Abu Mujahid on the other.
Islam is a religion that recognizes NO separation between Mosque and state. That is a fact. One can challenge it but that changes nothing.
I have to agree also with Lionger's view of voting out of one's religious constituency. A bad muslim ruler is not better than a just christian leader and vice versa. For those who disagree, it is good to review our Islamic history and see where the first Muslim migrants were sent to?
Thirdly, I am of the opinion that Abacha should not be included in the list of those who have contributed to the advancement of the northerner. Perhaps in the category of those who governed Nigeria- rightly or wrongly ?
Lastly, to compare Nigeria's situation to Sudan is an utter disregard for impartial analysis. The problem in Sudan depends on who tells the story and ascertaining what the actual causes for countenance of the war is everyones guess. No matter what happens- regrading Shariah agitation or the incorporation of religion into politics, Nigeria will never degenerate into the kind of melee that's going on over there. At least I hope the military is there to strike at the right moment. GOD forbid.
i read very little of what has been posted,
so pls dont think am on anyones side,
but lemme tell u some history,
the last khalifa of spain said.....
I'll prefer the rule of a donkey than a pig's.
note-
donkey was declared Halal in one of the wars during Prophet Mohd (PBHU) but pig was never
ok...incase some of u havent noticed... u can practice Shariah in ur own homes... we've been doing that for a looooong time now....
American Muslims, German Muslims, British Muslims, Venezuelan Muslims, Trini Muslims, Jamaican Muslims, Kenyan Muslims, South African Muslims, Burkinabe Muslims, Korean Muslims, Albanian Muslims... etc etc.... are all living and practicing their religion.... so..... with or without Shariah as a gov't in Nigeria.... we CAN survive... its juss a way of life! WE ARE LIVING IT!!!!
QuoteIntersting indeed...
Democracy in the first place is a system of the unbelievers! It has no connection whatsoever with Islam. It completely contradicts the rules of Islam whether in the comprehensive or partial issues,
It is a system whose source is human beings and it has no connection to devine revelation or religion.
"And their business is (conducted) through consultation among themselves."(Qur'an 42:38)
Islamic system of gov't.....based on consultation, freedom of expression, equality and serving the interests of the community.
having a xtian leader will do nothing to hurt the Muslims... as long as we have someone representing us... and we also carry out our duties according to Islam... no need to vex!
and Lionger... God Forbid! i will never vote for those two... especially ojukookooindacabeza!!!!!!!!!!!....
and i cant see meeh voting for buhari... ::)... maybe i should run sef...
lol FDQ listen to yourself..on another thread you said Nigeria needs new leaders. yet, now u say you'll never vote for gani or ojukwu. well i guess i understand ur rejection of ojukwu but what do u have against mr. gani fawehinmi?
btw its 'ojukwu' surely it isn't that hard to spell? ;D? i know u n many others on this forum don't even want to hear his name, cuz of the civil war. well that was a war of self-defense, of Ojukwu's ppl - the Igbo. It would never have happened if not for the genocide against the Igbos in the North and Gowon's treachery in renaging form the Aburi accord. the one thing i'd say against ojukwu is that he is a very proud man. anyways, this thread is not for defending him..if u hate corruption in nigeria, and want new leadership unconnected with our sorry past. vote for gani.
amin
Quote
Lastly, to compare Nigeria's situation to Sudan is an utter disregard for impartial analysis. The problem in Sudan depends on who tells the story and ascertaining what the actual causes for countenance of the war is everyones guess. No matter what happens- regrading Shariah agitation or the incorporation of religion into politics, Nigeria will never degenerate into the kind of melee that's going on over there. At least I hope the military is there to strike at the right moment. GOD forbid. ? ?
i think the problem in sudan is quite clear: the arab muslim north tried to impose sharia on the largely christain african south, leading to civil war that has been going on for over 20 years. its a sad story of death, starvation, refugee crisis and slavery(??). Unfortunately the int'l community has largely ignored the conflict going on there. nigeria may never degenerate into a Sudan largely because regional armies no longer exist (like they did in pre-civil war Nigeria). however, enough lives have been wasted already. must we wait until war knocks at our door b4 we decide to fix the situation (albeit way too late by then)?
Guys, unfortunately or not, the words 'sharia' and 'one nigeria' do not make sense together and therefore should not be in the same sentence. Look at Nigeria today - is it any more united today than it was under Abacha? No! And the reason is because the sharia of today was not introduced in Northern Nigeria by the political elite as tool for reform, order and development. It was brought up as a tool for deceiving and usurping power from the largely impoverished and uneducated masses, as well as destabilizing the 'southern-dominated' government of nigeria.
For those of you who disagree (and for those who use the statement 'sharia's always been there' as its validation) think about this: Sharia was introduced to the constitution in 1978 under the supervision of Obasanjo, who in 1979 handed over to the president-elect Shagari. In all of shagari's four years as president, nobody clamored for sharia. in fact the topic did not even come up for discussion, despite the fact that Shagari was one of the muslims that walked out of the 1978 Constituent Assembly during the sharia debate. After he became president the matter was buried. Compare that to today's situation. Why?
Quote
btw its 'ojukwu' surely it isn't that hard to spell?
OJUKOOKOOINDACABEZA!!!!!!!!!!!... and so i stress..... and..by new leaders.. i mean, "cant wait till all the old people generation commot and hand over to fresh minds"...
and xtian southerners and others... berra recognise and understand Shariah... i dunno whut they fear... its not like we'll chop off their heads or bulala them for no praticular reason...
and all that conspiracy theory most of u have cloggin' ur brains... ah pues.. ya'll should remain paranoid and ignorant... ya'll keep runnin' ur moufs... we'll keep running our bizness...khalas! ;D
QuoteUmmita, take it or leave it the way we are governed and the rules we are subjected to are parts of the religion, they cannot be separated ( a way of life, remember???) thats just the way the religion is!!
There are far off better things and better ways we can relate iIslam to and not just politics. We can all say who we prefer to be the president but it oesnt come down to a few ppls response...infact have you sticked your votes in the ballot boxes that you all are hailing about who should be the president?
I find it an irrelevant topic to associate religion with political crisis.
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OJUKOOKOOINDACABEZA!!!!!!!!!!!... and so i stress..... and..by new leaders.. i mean, "cant wait till all the old people generation commot and hand over to fresh minds"...
hehe FDQ u see yourself? obviously (and i guess understandably) u have no respect for Ojukwu. He is still viewed as a hero by many in Nigeria, for standing up to the gross injustice metted against them by the Hausa-fulani ?at the time. I'm sure many of you won't be happy if i proceeded to insult the late Sir Ahmadu Bello. to you he is a hero, ?however some 'southerners' hold him and awolowo jointly responsible for the ethnicised nature of Nigerian politics today. others also believe he used Akintola (a christian-turned alhaji) to start "wahala" in the western region which was then spreading like a desert fire that will invariable engulf the whole nation. if true, i guess it partly explains why both akintola and the sardauna were killed in the 1st coup.
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and xtian southerners and others... berra recognise and understand Shariah... i dunno whut they fear... its not like we'll chop off their heads or bulala them for no praticular reason...
and all that conspiracy theory most of u have cloggin' ur brains... ah pues.. ya'll should remain paranoid and ignorant... ya'll keep runnin' ur moufs... we'll keep running our bizness...khalas! ;D
That is not a very useful statement. Dr. Adegbite expressed the same sentiments when, after the Miss World riots, he said, "Now everyone knows that Islam is a religion to be taken seriously". Saying southerners and christians should 'berra recognise Sharia' does not really show respect for the christians and southerners, who definitely have a right to be upset about sharia. They been 'bulala-ed' and killed, their churches burned and their property looted in over 20 years of ethnic/religious spats in the North. Sorry FDQ, but Northern muslims do not have a very good tolerance record, and ?they are clearly not serious about restricting sharia to Muslims, thus Christians are not prepared to listen to any arguments for sharia.
I see you deliberately skirted my question on sharia's 'disappearance' under its champion shagari but not under obasanjo. dismissing it as a 'conspiracy theory' holds no water and only shows that you do not want to admit the obvious. the awkwardness of sharia is such that it cannot be enforced by the Nigerian police, hence the advent of local vigilante groups. What kind of society is that? FDQ, Sharia may not harm christians, as you say, but it will not help them either. Sharia will not and is not meant to help anyone in Nigeria except those who installed it. The northern masses do not need sharia, they need improved social amenities and infrastructures, health care, education, and freedom from poverty; and they need it more than anyone else in Nigeria!
*yawn*............. nexxxxt! this is gettin' old...!
lol?;D
desert fire? :D
correct me if am wrong lionger.
maybe my english aint that good buddy.
but mmmm pictures i have seen and on tv seem to represent large sandy areas as desert.
I think from the years i have lived, that sand doesnt catch fire.
does it in ojukwu land?
wow
man u gotto let me know.
am intrested in wierd scientology.
Adious
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"And their business is (conducted) through consultation among themselves."(Qur'an 42:38)
Islamic system of gov't.....based on consultation, freedom of expression, equality and serving the interests of the community.
having a xtian leader will do nothing to hurt the Muslims... as long as we have someone representing us... and we also carry out our duties according to Islam... no need to vex!
I am sorry to say that the aya you quote above does not prove that democracy is Islamic. In fact I believe that and another person supported this position, the Islamic Government is a compassionate dictatorship as the leader is dictatorial subject to the provisions of the Qur'an and Sunnah The leader in an Islamic Government is not elected but chosen in fact if you solicit for the position you are disqualified. Furthermore in democracy there has to be a constitution drafted by wisemen, in Islam there is only one constitution, the Holy Qur'an. A woman cannot rule under Islamic constitution and there is no freedom of speech outside the bounds of what Allah and the Holy Prophet have decreed, for instance you can not slander a prophet of Allah like in the western democracies where it is free to write and publish books like The Last Temptations of Jesus or Satanic Verses.
Please be careful in the interpretations of Qur'anic Verses always consult the tafsir before quoting it to support any argument.
May Allah guide us. Amin
:o kai kai kai....whut are u sayin?? ?? the Islamic gov't runs on the BEST interest of the PEOPLE it governs.... therefore people should have FREEDOM of SPEECH!! no matter WHUT gender!!!!!!!! (but ofcourse akwai limits...like every society)
During the rein of Omar (2nd successor to the Prophet p.b.u.h.), women participated in law making. Omar made a proposal of a certain regulation concerning marriage. A woman in the mosque stood up and said, "Omar, you can't do that."
Omar did not tell her, "Shut up, you are a woman, you have nothing to do with politics!"
He asked, "Why?" She made her argument on the basis of Qur'an. In front of everybody, he stood up and said, "The woman is right and Omar is wrong," and he withdrew his proposal.
That was the spirit in the early days of Islam. In the collection of Hadith's by Bukhari a section is devoted to the participation of women, not only in public affairs, but in the battlefield too. Women carried arms and when there was great danger to the Muslims, they volunteered to participate even in the battlefield.
According to this principle it is the right of every Muslim either to have a direct way in the affairs of the state or to have a representative chosen by him and other Muslims to participate in the running of the state.*
*Mawlana Abul A’la Mawdudi
SALAM
ps.. how do u know i neva check wit' tafsir? enh?
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A woman cannot rule under Islamic constitution
... ok, so i might not be able to wear the crown when it comes to ruling (b'cuz some juss wont allow it)... but BEST recognize, when it concerns women issues or the well being of anything... i'll be there to holla at the top of my voice (meeh and a couple of my sisters)... You men have to realize we nurture the society... so berra lend us ur ears....
FDQ ai AbuMujahid didnt say women should be suppressed or are supposed to be suppressed in an Islamic government. You will agree with me that Islam is a religion that sees both men and women as equals, there are just dfferent responsibilities preferred for each. There are many reasons why a woman cannot be the leader of an islamic ummah, physical, emotional and those that we dont know... Allah knows best.
It beats me why for instance most women are very much against the idea of being at home and raising a family. You should remember whoever leads must have been born by a woman and his Jannah lies in his pleasing her to her last days. Women are the foundation of the islamic ummah.
for sure Islam sees us as EQUALS... (i probably preach that more than anyone)
but some bigots juss dont see it that way... we are all aware that it's cultural to oppress women... not ISLAMIC...
i personally will vote for a woman in office if i know she'll do better than a man.
and nooooooooo one said.. a woman cannot be the leader of an Islamic society...
dont forget...Queen Amina achieved much much much much moooorrrrrre than her "male" ancestors...
its about best interests and who's capable...
but i agree with ur emotional thingie, that indeed is a very strong point... but as for physical... i dont like that arguement at aaaaalll...
and ayyah.. i really dont mind house wifeys :)... actually Islam gives a woman the right to work AND the right not to work... i see it as a privilege..
so a man cant force a woman to work.. and he cant force her to not to work. 8)
but the reason why many females prefer to have work is more of a social issue... SECURITY and R-E-S-P-E-C-T!!!!...
Maza sun iya wulaqanchi... and they disrespect any woman who shows she is dependent on them... men (especially nowadays) shld keep in mind that if they decide to act shady... we can always walk out the door (or kick 'em out ::) ;D) and continue to maintain...
wait... back to whut uncle abu said....we cant elect a leader? says who?
constitution?... so ur sayin... we cant have people with their opinions and suggestions representing a district come foward and express their views?
FDQ
Anybody that presents himself for nomination or election is disqualified in an islamic setting. Leaders in Islam are elected by the people from among the most learned, the most religious, the most moral, etc but they dont present themselves and dont campaign, they are presented. In actual fact it is not everybody that can vote!!!!!!!
The western democracy as it is today is not Islamic, people are presenting themselves and campaigning for votes. In Islam no campaigns, nothing like that. If you want to rule there is something you want there but not really because you want to lead as the leader has more responsibilities and more questions to answer on the day of judgement and idel one therefore is that one that runs away from leadership
i thot campaigning wasnt good because the candidates make false promises and u know.. they lie a lot... and decieve
so basically, ur saying the people (or a number of people who have a decent background) will select a leader . . but the leader shouldnt be like "a zabe ni, a zabe ni"... ok, so it's still kinda like democracy.. cuz its the people who'll point out who they want!
but as for opinions and suggestions.. the people should get involved... and with mass media, that shld be easily carried out.
yanzu idan an che ka fito da wani a nigeria... wa zaka kira? i think it'll be difficult to point out a person...
AbuMujahid,
Maybe you don't know, but your posts on this thread is presenting the notion that Muslims cannot peacefully share a country with ppl of other faiths. Do you really expect non-muslims to accept islamic theocracy? So Islamic countries like Turkey and Malaysia have erred big time since they practise democracy? Would you be willing to be live a Vatican-like state?
Look at what religion and politics have brought countries like Sudan. AbuMujahid can you think of any country in the world today, with ethnic and religious diversity, that practises Islamic rule without any brouhaha?
aaaahh.. come oh! mr lion... have u been to turkey?? ?? :o
the muslims there are HEAVILY oppressed... i should know, cuz i went to uni in istanbul for a year!... juss fashy that one... dont use it as an example...
plus.. whut's wrong with living in a vatican like state?
FDQ..muslims in Turkey are oppressed? By who? The military? That's an interesting; i never really thought about that. I have many friends from Turkey here and they never told me aobut oppression. well perhaps, but i think its good for turkey that religious radicalism is not tolerated there..they already have enough problems with the cyprus and the kurds.
Oh there's nothing at all wrong with living in the Vatican - except that it is a Christian autocracy, with the Pope as its head. I wonder how AbuMujahid would feel if Nigeria decided to establish a Vatican-like government.
Forget about tolerance. We have failed that test woefully in Nigeria time and time again, lately to our international embarassment. I've asked AbuMujahid to name any other Nigeria-like countries in the world that peacefully practise without problems what he proposes. If he's saying Nigeiran can be used as a guinea-pig, then i strongly beg to differ. We have too many problems already, thank you.
Btw, FDQ, since u obviously disagree with AbuMujahid, yet don't consider Turkey as a good example of an Islamic democracy, can you then explain why most Middle Eastern and infact, most Islamic countries, are not democracies?
see dis man!! :o!! so its ok to opress muslims? good thing for turkey? *tsaki!* i must say u need to check urself ooooooooo
aniwayz.. i'll juss IGNORE that comment...
Turks are mostly muslims by "NAMES"... ask ur friends about the human rights records in turkey... (like they'll come all of a sudden and start gisiting u of wahala in their kontri) A BEG!
and i know muslim turks.. they have one of the most PEACEFUL ways of practicing Islam... mhm.. Turkey is lucky the dont have people like Bin Laden...
if the Turks were "radicals", trust meeh.. Turkey woulda been a lot more of fuss and fights...
but the Muslims in Turkey are probably the MOST PATIENT i have encountered... they are taking everything step by step.. and are also progressing.. more grease to their elbows!
they dont have any radicals in turkiye...hepsi cok guzel!
ps.. wut is ur definition of radicals? :-/
Quotebut i think its good for turkey that religious radicalism is not tolerated there..they already have enough problems with the cyprus and the kurds.
why did u jump to this conclusion?... look, just because there's beef b/w israel and palestine (i assume thats where u got it from), it does NOT represent wut EVERY jew will do, and certainly does NOT represent wut every muslim will do.
u really need to get ur head out of the gutter and breathe in the fresh air...
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Btw, FDQ, since u obviously disagree with AbuMujahid, yet don't consider Turkey as a good example of an Islamic democracy, can you then explain why most Middle Eastern and infact, most Islamic countries, are not democracies?
...oya! list them countries lemme 'ear...
..sigh ?::)
lol FDQ you did not have to insult me..my head has not been in a gutter since an unfortunate incident almost ten years ago..don't wanna go back there..hehe
however i must ask if you really read my post, cuz i have no idea what your response is based on. in fact i'm beginning to think you rarely understand my posts at all! Where did I even hint in any of my posts that I support violence against muslims? Show me that sentence and I will remove it; thank you! FDQ do you know what 'religous radicalism' means? Maybe that's not the right word to use maybe i should say, 'religious extremism'! If you're saying that it doesn't exist in Turkey period, then that's great! What argument do we have with me in that case? Why are you telling me that muslims in Turkey are peaceful, FDQ? Isn't that the case for Muslims everywhere - in Saudi Arabia, from North Africa, thru the Middle East, the Indian Subcontinent, to Southeast Asia? Why do you always go on the defensive REGARDLESS of what I say on any issue regarding Islam or Northern Nigeria?
I know about the Abdullah Occalan saga and Turkey's bleak human rights record; that's has been on of its biggest obstacles to joining the E.U. Exactly why I said that they wouldn't want the added wahala of religious fanaticism on their backs. Though of course they would remain staunch allies of the U.S. regardless..talk about double standards.
FDQ for goodness sake: when I say that islamic fanaticism (like that of ANY other religion) is not acceptable, I am not attacking Islam. When I say that Islamic extremism has badly damaged the palestinian credibility, I am not attacking Islam. When I say I do not support Sharia in Nigeria, I am NOT attacking Islam (well I guess you and AbuMujahid will never agree with me on that one). Fundamentalism in any faith is BAD.. and unfortunately today when the words 'religious fundamentalism' is mentioned, unfortunately Islam steals the headlines, (i guess thanks to the biased western media). I know that is awkward for you; in fact on another thread i've expressed my sympathy towards innocent muslims who have been needlessly caught in the crossfire. But we're not all idiots. We don't all have to go and 'get our education.' Some of us are educated. Try to understand us sometimes.
I'm not sure I want to answer your question on listing Islamic countries, cuz on another thread you gave me the idea that countries that I think are Islamic, are not. So in order to 'get my education' ..hehe.. I will turn that question over to you. Being a muslim you'd know better than myself.
Then we can see what sort of governments these countries have. This was the crux of your argument with Abumujahid. I was merely prodding the practicality of your argument.
Let me say something..............Ya'all need to take a hike, take a break on this issue, ku sanye kaden.......madallah yayyi kyau......You have all contributed immensly as I can see and ya'all are good politicians ya kamata ne....ok for better suggestion..juss go and climb drums & get a loud speaker...yadda nager wani politician yayi...& keep tlkin but gaskiya I suggest a break it will do all of you good......wannan irin...... I say, you say........sannu ku da aiki! kai (she laffs) duz life get eni beta than this!!
ok sir.. it was juss the way u said that its good they deal with radicalism...
and i guess i made some assuptions...
so where were we?
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so where were we?
nace a huta hakanan, all this rantin is takin us no where......idan anyi kadan akan beri ne........
LOL ni ma dai politics..if talked about too much it gets boring
QuoteFDQ..muslims in Turkey are oppressed? By who? The military? ?That's an interesting; i never really thought about that. I have many friends from Turkey here and they never told me aobut oppression. well perhaps, but i think its good for turkey that religious radicalism is not tolerated there..they already have enough problems with the cyprus and the kurds.
Oh there's nothing at all wrong with living in the Vatican - except that it is a Christian autocracy, with the Pope as its head. I wonder how AbuMujahid would feel if Nigeria decided to establish a Vatican-like government.
Forget about tolerance. We have failed that test woefully in Nigeria time and time again, lately to our international embarassment. I've asked AbuMujahid to name any other Nigeria-like countries in the world that peacefully practise without problems what he proposes. If he's saying Nigeiran can be used as a guinea-pig, then i strongly beg to differ. We have too many problems already, thank you.
Btw, FDQ, since u obviously disagree with AbuMujahid, yet don't consider Turkey as a good example of an Islamic democracy, can you then explain why most Middle Eastern and infact, most Islamic countries, are not democracies?
Hello Friend,
Let me update you, not only that the military oppresses muslims they oppress your beloved democracy too. on more than 3 occassions they brought down a democratically elected government, similarly the sacred rights of democracy are not upheld in that country. They have rights to walk around naked but they have no right to muslim dress codes, a woman cannot cover her head. The men cannot keep beared and there is o right to free speech, you can say whatever you like but you cannot support any Islamic injunction. This is the type of democracy that you people want for us. Is the muslim not a human being, you can only say that the Turkish military is not oppressive if you are not aware of these abuses. What amazes one anyway is where the human right organisations have gone.
And like your Turkish friends who are may be together with you in the US or UK or somewhere in Europe, the Turkish Establishment wants to belong and wants aid from the developed economies, they want to join the EU and to stay in NATO for more economic prosperity. Is it not amazing also that the so called champion of democracy, America and the western countries are looking at the abuse of the Kurdish population without any remorse.
Before the end of the Iraq - Iran war, Saddam Hussien used Nerve and Mustard gas on the Kurdish and Shiite's population in his country and nobody said anything, in fact they gave him more (the west) but what happened later he is a threat to humanity. So anytime Turkey recognises its Islamic roots it will become public enemy No. 1.
And for you information there is nothing like Islamic Democracy, like I said there is nothing like Democracy in Islam. So for that reason most Islamic countries are not democracies. But that does not mean the middle eastern countries are not repressive regimes.
Thank you.
lol lol there he goes again......kai duniya!! lol lol. Well done Uncle politician. Wallahi Allah kana aiki, mun gamzu sosai da bayaninka
hi AbuMujahid
I have to agree with you on your comments about Turkey. I knew very well of their presecution of kurds and the power of the military, but not so much of the disenfranchisement of muslims. On closer inspection I'd have to say that Turkey is definitely not an example of a good democracy, let alone Islamic. Nobody deserves that kind of democracy, muslims, christians, whoever.
However your statement about Turkey becoming a public enemy if it discovers its islamic roots are curious. I don't see how/why that should be the case, unless you're saying that Islamic revival automatically means rise of anti-western sentiments and religious extremism. In that case then I must say its hardly surprising, but unfortunate.
I'm also beginning to feel sorry for americans living abroad who now practically fear for their safety.
yo FDQ and ummita i guess my reply was a bit hot-headed, and it wasn't meant to be. u'll have to excuse me... :)
ANY RIGHT THINKING PERSON WITH AN IOTA OF COMMON SENSE OR REASONING LEFT IN HIS HEAD WILL NOT NEVER EVER EVER VOTE FOR OBASANJO! HE IS THE MOST INCOMPETENT COWARD,SELFISH,BACKSTABBING,ARROGANT,MOST USELESS PRESIDENT I PRAY NIGERIA WILL EVER HAVE! HE HAS SOLD US OFF ALREADY. DONT B SURPRISED IF U FIND 1 WHITE MAN TRYING TO DRAG U OFF TO WHEREVER ONE DAY.THE ONLY THING HE HASNT DONE IS PHYSICALLY SHOOT ALL OF US DOWN,BUT HE HAS DONE WORSE MENTALLY AND ECONOMICALLY SO PLEASE...VOTE OFF OBJ....ANYONE ELSE BUT HIM....IF YOU LIKE VOTE FOR ME,U'LL BE BETTER OFF....DONT SIGN YOUR DEATH WARRANT,DONT VOTE FOR OBJ....WE'RE FED UP!
Alhamdulillah, I could say a leader could be what so ever, what isonly need a good ladership from a good leader.
for this presidential election, i dont know who is goin to win, but i juss pray for the best. its juss that i think if a yoruba person wins, they will be LESS trouble between northerners and southerners.
and one more thing.....wat do u guys think about the country bein divided??
Quotefor this presidential election, i dont know who is goin to win, but i juss pray for the best. its juss that i think if a yoruba person wins, they will be LESS trouble between northerners and southerners.
and one more thing.....wat do u guys think about the country bein divided??
obasanjo is a yoruba man and i think we've experienced a lot more trouble, rioting and civil unrest under his rule than under the immediate past military rulers; the north/south enmity is pretty much the same if not worse; don't you think so?
as for the elections itself, well, my choice would be gani (and to a less extent ojukwu); but their chances of winning are close to nil. The race goes to obj and buhari, and as i've said b4, its a choice b/w the devil and the deep blue sea. So what's the use? in any case, nigerians in diaspora cannot vote, thanks to our prestigious lawmakers. i just hope/pray for minimal violence.
well.....we all pray there will be no violence....
i'm all for sarah jibril anyways.....POWA TO THA LADIEZ!! ;D
SARAH!!!! SARAH!!!! SARAH!!!! SARAH!!!!