Hanging 'makes martyr of Saddam'

[bamalli]

The circumstances of the hanging of Saddam Hussein have turned the former Iraqi leader into a martyr, Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak has said.

Mr Mubarak said the unofficial pictures that emerged of the event were revolting and barbaric.

The chaotic scenes at the execution, during which Saddam was taunted, have been condemned across the world.

Egypt is a key regional ally of the US and one of only two Arab states to have signed a peace deal with Israel.

"No-one will ever forget the way in which Saddam was executed - they turned him into a martyr, and the problems in Iraq remained"
Hosni Mubarak

Mr Mubarak also revealed that he had sent a message to US President George W Bush to urge him not to allow the execution to take place during the Eid al-Adha, the Islamic feast that marks the end of the Hajj.

US officials, including Mr Bush, have distanced themselves from the way in which the execution was carried out, but insisted that justice was served.

The Egyptian president's comments came in an interview with Israel's best-selling daily newspaper, Yediot Ahronot daily. They were also published by the official Egyptian news agency.

Holiday prayers

"People are executed all over the world, but what happened in Baghdad on the first day of Eid al-Adha was unthinkable. I didn't believe it was happening," he said.

Hosni Mubarak (left), Saddam Hussein and Yasser Arafat in 1988

"Why did they have to hurry? Why hang him when people are reciting their holiday prayers? Then the pictures of the execution were revolting and barbaric.

"I am not saying whether Saddam did or did not deserve the death penalty. I am also not getting into the question of whether this court is lawful under occupation."

Relations between Egypt and Iraq were friendly until the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

Egypt participated militarily in the international coalition that drove Iraqi forces out of Kuwait.

Hosni Mubarak strongly advised the United States not to lead the invasion of Iraq in 2003 in which Saddam Hussein was overthrown.

[Mai neman Ilimi har China]

Before we are quick to give Saddam a title he may well be unworthy of, divorce Islam from politics here. This is a man who was responsible for the extrajudicial executions of circa 30,000 muslims, and who put statues up to himself!

His manner of death may not have been what we would have liked to see happen, and the american involvement despicable, but this does not confer on to him a title for the worthy.

[HUSNAA]

I beg to differ. Allah Is the Best Judge of Saddam's actions. The fact that Saddam was able to say the kalimatus shahada as his last words entitles all of us to keep our opinions of his atrocities in check....
Allah Ya jikan sa amin

[Dan-Borno]

Before we are quick to give Saddam a title he may well be unworthy of, divorce Islam from politics here. This is a man who was responsible for the extrajudicial executions of circa 30,000 muslims, and who put statues up to himself!

His manner of death may not have been what we would have liked to see happen, and the american involvement despicable, but this does not confer on to him a title for the worthy.

I think, i agree with you Mai neman Ilmi has Sin, Islam is a complete way of life, there is no any Islamic injunction (Qur'an, Hadith or Salafiyya) stating that their is no execution on Eid day (with presumption that his execution is done by an Islamic State).  Except their is an absolute injunction, then nothing was done to the Muslim Ummah in executing a wrong doer on that day (on presumption that he was found guilty by an Islamic State).

As for his kalimatush-shahada, this reminds me of the Qur'anic story of Prophet Musa (AS) and Pharoah when Pharoah was drawn in the sea, he said (Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim) "Inni Tubtu" meaning I repent to God, then Allah replied him saying "Al an, wa kad asaitu min kablu......"  meaning, is it only now that you wanted to repent, after all you have done? WE (Allah) are going to preserve you, so that you will be an aya (sign) to those coming behind you.

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) has said "Man kana akhiru kalamihi Lailaha Illallahu, dakhalal janna" meaning "whoever his last word is the kalimatush-shahada, enters paradise.  There is no conflict between this saying and the above Qur'anic verse.

The mere utterance of the word will be meaningless if the heart does not accept it.

As for my opinion, Saddam is not a martyr and no one is offended as to his execution time.

[HUSNAA]

Dan Borno, you are forgetting that Firaun was proud, obstinate and in contest with Allah SWT. He refused to obey Allah in the face of all evidences. Allah Manifested Himself to Firaun, and Firaun knew that there was no Deity worth worshipping except Allah, but he was arrogant. His utterance of shahadah as it were, came only after he saw death. Even moments before it, he was in contest with Allah's Commands.. that is chasing after Musa (AS). There is no way u can compare him with Saddam Hussein, who, what ever his atrocities were, he was a believer, didnt disrespect Allah SWT, the religion etc. You must remember that the purpose of man on this earth is to know and worship Allah. That is his primary purpose of beign created. Everything else he does is secondary to that. Firaun refused to submit to his primary function on earth. He also never gave thought to the fact that he might die while chasing Prophet Musa AS.  On the contrary, Saddam Hussein has had time to reflect on his life and past actions etc and probably with regret and repentance. Whether that would do him any good in the hereafter lies only with Allah's Knowledge. But he prepared to die at any rate, (the Qur'an he carried is testimony to that).
Remember another thing as well, that the premise under which Iraq a muslim nation,  was attacked by the western nations was false and Saddam as a muslim defended his nation. A kufr nation attacking a muslim nation is something that automatically guarantees the protectors of the muslim nation matyrdom if killed in action. Saddam was murdered. He murdered and he was also murdered. So his atrocities are automatically transferred on to his murderers the western conquerors, Bush and Co.
You are also wrong to suggest that Saddam's Kalimatushahadah was meaningless. Allah Does not Give the permission for everyone to utter that kalimattusshahadah at the time of their death. It is a priviledge remember that. One of the greatest fitnahs that a person can experience occurs just at the moment before the soul departs the body. That is the time that Shaytan comes and tempts a person for the final time. At the time of death, one feels terribly thirsty, and Shatan comes and tempts a person with a mirage of water teasing the person with the water and asking for sujdah for him shaytan in exchange for a drink. If a person concedes, he is lost forever. So one has to contend with this fitnah as well as trying to say the Kalimatusshahadah. This is why we have to read

"Allahumma inni audhu bika minal azhabal kabri, wa azhaban nar wa fitnatal masihad dajjal, wafitnatal mamati wa mahya, wa ma'thami wa maghrami" after tasshahud of every prayer.
If you say his kalimattusshadah was meaningless unless from the heart, how do you know it wasnt from his heart. I think anyone who knows 100% that he is going to meet with his Maker, must feel subdued, must turn towards Him with the hope for His Mercy. Allah always Reminds us in the Qur'an that when we are in difficulty, we turn to Him in humility and submissiveness asking for His Help and Pardon. When He Grants us our wishes, we turn away arrogantly and attribute success or deliverance to something other than HIM.  So how about if one knows that one's final hour has approached, dont you think that one would be all submissive, humble, apprehensive of what awaits one? Wouldnt that put one in the frame of mind for uttering the shahadah in all ernestness? I think so.
Another thing, what about all those ppl who are half in and half out of their senses at the time of death, but the relatives sit there reciting the kalimat in the hope that the dying person will mimic the words? This is a hadeeth in which it is said that if a person is dying, you should be uttering the kalimatusshahadah so that the dying person may eventually repeat what is being said in the hope that his last dying words is the shahada. A person in that condition can not be said to know what he/she is saying, so the intent is not there. Nevertheless it doesnt render the utterance meaningless.

If Allah Had not Willed for Saddam to say the kalimat, he could have died arguing with those ppl who came to watch him because the trap door would just open beneath his feet while he was unaware of it. But that didnt happen to him. Remember also, that what u are used to uttering is what will probably be yr final words on this earth. So those who love to curse at every opportunity, should take heed

And what about Hajjaj bin Yusuf, he who has a 'kwamasho' every time u read a word of the holy Quran, but was one of the greatest tyrants of the Islamic world? What can u say about him viz a viz his fate in the hereafter? No one knows Except Allah. That is why Allah is Al Lateef, the subtle.....Al Hakam the Judge and Al Hakeem the Wise.

[lionger]

Husnaa, Husnaa, Husnaa, you are defending the indefensible.

Put aside all sentiment and face up squarely to the facts of Saddam Hussein's tragic life. Do not hide or run away from them in any way. In my humble opinion, your post above seriously detracts from the good Islamic image that you would obviously have the whole world see.

Dan Borno, you are forgetting that Firaun was proud, obstinate and in contest with Allah SWT. He refused to obey Allah in the face of all evidences. Allah Manifested Himself to Firaun, and Firaun knew that there was no Deity worth worshipping except Allah, but he was arrogant. His utterance of shahadah as it were, came only after he saw death. Even moments before it, he was in contest with Allah's Commands.. that is chasing after Musa (AS). There is no way u can compare him with Saddam Hussein, who, what ever his atrocities were, he was a believer, didnt disrespect Allah SWT, the religion etc. You must remember that the purpose of man on this earth is to know and worship Allah. That is his primary purpose of beign created. Everything else he does is secondary to that. Firaun refused to submit to his primary function on earth. He also never gave thought to the fact that he might die while chasing Prophet Musa AS. On the contrary, Saddam Hussein has had time to reflect on his life and past actions etc and probably with regret and repentance. Whether that would do him any good in the hereafter lies only with Allah's Knowledge. But he prepared to die at any rate, (the Qur'an he carried is testimony to that).

Husnaa, what is your definition of worship? Is it just prayer, reading, reciting the Quran/holy verses or does it involve your whole life? I've had many muslims tell me that worship and Islam is their whole life; we Christians believe the same. Now was Saddam Hussein worshipping God when he brutally supressed all internal opposition in bloody fashion? Was Saddam respecting the religion of Islam when he colluded with the 'kufr' americans to wage war on Iran and later when he invaded Kuwait? Did he show respect for God during the Anfal campaign during which up to 100,000 kurds died, or the Dujail massacres of '82? You really mean to tell us, Husnaa, that Saddam could do such horrible things while still honoring Islam?

Btw, what proof do you have that Saddam experienced a 'change of heart' after his capture? He 'probably' did, because he had the time? Why would you think so? It certainly didn't show in his fiery rhetoric in court. The first time I heard Saddam express any form of Islamic solidarity was when America invaded. Anyone can clutch a Quran on his deathbed and recite holy verses but that cannot infer true repentance as Dan Borno has aleady said.

Remember another thing as well, that the premise under which Iraq a muslim nation, was attacked by the western nations was false and Saddam as a muslim defended his nation. A kufr nation attacking a muslim nation is something that automatically guarantees the protectors of the muslim nation matyrdom if killed in action. Saddam was murdered. He murdered and he was also murdered. So his atrocities are automatically transferred on to his murderers the western conquerors, Bush and Co.

Of course this is the real problem: American involvement. Because of America's illegal invasion of Iraq, some of us seem confused in our attitude to Saddam. But this is no excuse. We must not be lazy and learn to divide issues properly. Saddam was not 'killed in action', he was executed for crimes he committed. Do not let the wider specter of the U.S. confuse you. He was not murdered, he was a murderer. His execution was a disgraceful spectacle but that doesn't make it murder.The highlighted statement about Saddam's atrocities being transfered to Bush is most astounding. Does the Quran support this view? Please bring up the relevant verses so we can know more.

If you say his kalimattusshadah was meaningless unless from the heart, how do you know it wasnt from his heart. I think anyone who knows 100% that he is going to meet with his Maker, must feel subdued, must turn towards Him with the hope for His Mercy. Allah always Reminds us in the Qur'an that when we are in difficulty, we turn to Him in humility and submissiveness asking for His Help and Pardon. When He Grants us our wishes, we turn away arrogantly and attribute success or deliverance to something other than HIM. So how about if one knows that one's final hour has approached, dont you think that one would be all submissive, humble, apprehensive of what awaits one? Wouldnt that put one in the frame of mind for uttering the shahadah in all ernestness? I think so.....
If Allah Had not Willed for Saddam to say the kalimat, he could have died arguing with those ppl who came to watch him because the trap door would just open beneath his feet while he was unaware of it. But that didnt happen to him. Remember also, that what u are used to uttering is what will probably be yr final words on this earth. So those who love to curse at every opportunity, should take heed

Again how do you know that Saddam truly repented? If he knew 100% that he was going to die, then perhaps he would have verbally acknowledged his crimesand asked for forgiveness from the people. Instead, he preferred to rile against Persians and Americans, among other things.

No one knows Except Allah. That is why Allah is Al Lateef, the subtle.....Al Hakam the Judge and Al Hakeem the Wise.

Yes God is the final judge. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander. God is also the final judge for Bush and Co., not so?

In any case, consider carefully the implications of your statements. The idea that Saddam could afford to be a murderous despot and still be true to Islam could be construed to mean that Islam is a religion of violent, hypocritical people. You have not been slow in rebutting Ete when he expressed similar sentiments, but these comments will only serve to lend credence to such arguments.  :(

[Dan-Borno]

Thank you Lionger, you saved me a lot.

[MySeLf]

Siding with the kafirun?
Saddam was a killer not a killer only Allah can judge that, and he too will judge you, me, bush, blair and all......
All we know the american get to iraq based on lies not to save the Iraqis from saddam killing and torture.
We all know long b4 now the american/britain are very thirsty of saddam blood and that of his children, many assassination attempt failed
The trial wasn't a trial at all, is just a way of getting people attention, look we are killing him because so so reason, and want you to believe that.
If they have lied to us b4 why are we now believing in their judgement?......
Saddam guilty or not guilty, they want him dead anyway.

I just pray saddam is in perfect peace now in everyone final destination.
Martyr or not martyr only Allah know that..........
Allah ya jikansa!

[Dan-Borno]

I just pray saddam is in perfect peace now in everyone final destination.
Martyr or not martyr only Allah know that..........
Allah ya jikansa!

Yanzu kayi magana, lets forget what happened before and pray for all the soul of our dead brothers. 

[MySeLf]

kayi
 

kikayi dai

[Dan-Borno]

with due apology please, lamarin akwai hijabine shiyasa.

[NewEte]

Dang! My friend Dan Borno is being reproached for 'siding' with the kafiruns.
He has quickly and wisely changed his tone.  ::)

[Dan-Borno]

Dang! My friend Dan Borno is being reproached for 'siding' with the kafiruns.
He has quickly and wisely changed his tone.  ::)

is it this one:

lamarin akwai hijabine shiyasa.

or this one

Siding with the kafirun?

Malam Sabo Ete, i know you are just curious to know those meanings:

1.  The first quote from Myself, i used the word "

Yanzu kayi magana, lets forget what happened before and pray for all the soul of our dead brothers. 

using the word kayi is wrong here, because the person i am refering here is supposed to be a lady not a man, so she now corrected me, that i should use the word "kikayi" instead of "kayi".  I hope this one has been cleared, the change of intonation was because i am embarassed by my address.

Secondly, 

Siding with the kafirun?

if you look carefully, you will notice a question mark, the word kafirun in arabic language is "disbelievers", Myself should explain more.  But to my understanding she is 100% refering to the America and Brittish (with due apology to the innocent ones please) as she explains further in her post:

....... bush, blair........
All we know the american get to iraq based on lies not to save the Iraqis from saddam killing and torture.
We all know long b4 now the american/britain are very thirsty of saddam blood and that of his children, many assassination attempt failed

So Malam Sabo Ete, over to you

[HUSNAA]

Lionger,
I am in sha Allah going to address the issues u raise in my post. It will not be soon though cos I am really busy at the moment and each time I write copiously on this forum, it takes a lot of strenuous effort in terms of time and thought. So I will in sha Allah address these issues and the one on the other thread where I said I was sleepy.

Btw, Dan Borno, I am beginning to get a bit riled by u. You wait until someone has answered a query then u turn around and say its been answered and u've no need to add anything further. Come on contribute yr mite please. Another thing, I am truly amazed that u found nothing to agree with from my last post on. I really find that strange coming from a fellow muslim.......... :(  :-\

[Dan-Borno]

Babbar Auntyna kenan, haba, i thought we are trying to understand each other, there is no problem in having divergent views in Islam, you know it.

What we differ upon is that, you continue portraying Saddam as a Muslim Hero, while to me, Saddam is not a Muslim Hero.

Haba Aunty you quiet knew the history of Saddam better than I do, instead of him to stay and face his enemies (friends before) instead, he ran away hiding inside a hole like a rat.  I  will hardly forget those pictures of Saddam attended to by American soldiers after his capture, pointing at his tooth, looking more like a monkey than a human being. Neither will I forget the press conference when the Americans announced his capture. "Ladies and gentlemen," their spokesman greeted the crowd of journalists waiting for the breaking news, "we got him.

The famous Aliyu Tilde wrote:

We know very little of what happened to him thereafter (after he was caught), until he was charged to court. There, only two of his atrocities were mentioned, not even the biggest ones. We watched him behave unruly, reminiscent of the bandit he was at Al-Ouja. He did all he could to appeal to the sentiments of Muslims, by quoting the Qur'an, by shouting Allahu Akbar, and so on. Finally, the death sentence was passed on him, which was confirmed on appeal.

But just before the confirmation, he wished to die honourably and revered thereafter. He carried his manipulation further. He wrote a letter claiming that he intends to die as a martyr on behalf of his people. What a pity! That was the limit of defeat. Why did not he choose to confront the Americans? Saddam, whose name means "confronter", could not confront his enemies in a dignified manner. He fled, just as he had fled from death many times before, though he readily inflicted it on millions of people. His martyrdom would have been more spectacular were he killed by American bombs in his palace. For him to imagine martyrdom only after a death sentence was passed on him suggests a contemplation made too late, an afterthought too cheap to be taken seriously.

He knew his D-day would be Saturday. On Friday, the Americans handed him over to the Iraqis. The people who would taunt him at the gallows could not miss the opportunity of intimating him that he had less than 24 hours to shake hands with death, if only to subject him to a trauma.

Friday night must have been the most extraordinary for the tyrant. He must have reviewed his entire life, since he was born to an unknown father sometime in the 1930s, a date he was not sure of. He must have recalled the different categories of people he betrayed and executed: beginning from the murders of thousands of communists at the Palace of the End in 1963, to the scores of friends and relations he killed to acquire and maintain power, to the thousands of Iraqi Kurds and Shi'ites whose populations he wiped out through using tanks and poisons, to the Iranians whom he caused over 1.5million to perish in a protracted eight year war, to his cul-de-sac, the Kuwaitis whose land he invaded and property he looted.

That night he must have regretted being a CIA agent. He became their wild dogm they set after who communism and Islamic revivalism. People like Donald Rumsfeld were his frequent visitors and suppliers of arms; the Arab regimes of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt and Jordan supplied funds and soldiers in a confederation against the Islam. But as his countryman, al-Mutanabbi, once said, the lion turned to hunt its master. The Americans and Arab leaders had to confederate once more to destroy Saddam. The same Donald Rumsfeld headed the troops that invaded Iraq, deposed Saddam, captured him and handed him over to the people he once oppressed. He is now in their hands. What a mess! They will hang him the following morning.

And there he was. With the rope tied around his neck, just loose enough to allow him breathe. He could not flee anymore. I thought he will utter some words of courage, condemning America or al-Maliki, as he used to do in the courts. No. He gave up. But before the rope could do its job, Saddam muttered, "Allahu Akbar, there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God." Then, I remembered the Pharoah of Moses, who made a similar profession: "Now I believe that there is no god save the God in whom the Children of Israel believe. To Him I give up myself."

We often think we can fool God, thinking that a reverse gear at the point of hopelessness will acquit us of our atrocities. God said, "But God will not forgive those who do evil and, when death comes to them, say: 'Now I repent!" Hence, God rejected the above quoted repentance of Pharoah, saying, "Now (you believe)! But before this you disobeyed and were a wrongdoer."
I would not have written this article if it were not for the reaction of some people to the hanging of Saddam. I can understand the unease of other Arab leaders because, like Saddam, they are living specimens of tyranny. I can also understand the protest of the Sunni minority in Iraq, for Saddam was their last opportunity to lead the country. In democracy, unlike in totalitarianism, number counts. The Palestinians may also show support to Saddam simply to hurt America.

However, what I fail to understand is the sympathy that some Muslims developed for the tyrant. They said he was executed on the day of Eid. And so what? I have never come across any injunction prohibiting so. I disagree with Jabir al- Alwani of the OIC who faulted the execution because it fell within the ashhurul hurum, the four sacred months. Is Saddam's life better than the thirty-five Iraqis killed by Sunnis on the same day? In any case, Saddam never respected the sanctity of any month during his war with Iran or invasion of Kuwait. God was specific on what should not be done in the sacred months, and he did not include the execution of Saddam: "Do not wrong yourselves in them," He said.

Then came the mobile phone video depicting how Saddam was taunted at the gallows when he was called a tyrant, or when he was reminded of Muhammed Baqir Sadr, the famous cleric he murdered twenty-six years ago, and his living son, Muqtada. Saddam appealed to them to be men. His sympathisers now claimed that this was not in accordance with the spirit of Islam and Arab tradition, as al-Anbari, the Editor of London based al-Quds claimed on al-Jazeerah. But at that point God himself would have taunted Saddam, saying, as he said in the Qur'an, "Taste it, you are certainly the powerful and great."

In any case, which Arab tradition was al-Anbari referring to? One, Did not Yazid bin Mu'awiyya once bought Iraqis and got them to massacre over 300 members of the Holy Prophet's family, among them was the Prophet's, Husein, whose head was cut-off and kicked openly in the streets of Iraq, during a holy month?

Two, if they claim that Saddam was a leader and, so, deserved some measure of respect, why did not he and members of the Baath Party respect President Qasim, when they executed him in 1963. In Saddam, the Secret Life, Con Coughlin narrated that "to assure the doubting Iraqi public that the president was indeed dead, Qassem's bullet-ridden body was featured in a grotesque film that was shown repeatedly on Iraqi television."

http://amanaonline.com/Articles/Tilde/Tilde_227.htm

If you say his kalimattusshadah was meaningless unless from the heart, how do you know it wasnt from his heart.

I didnt conclusively say that his kalimatushshada was meaningless, this is what i say:

The mere utterance of the word will be meaningless if the heart does not accept it.

That is in the general sense, just like what happened to Fir'aun before his death.

We might differ in our opinion, but that does not mean that we dont share the same belief!