Frankly, what these two plastinian factions are presently doing is absolutely heart-rending and mind boggling- beyond my perspicacity. What a shameless action, despite the external pressure they are being, for decades, recieving from their great adversory Israel. :shock:
Days ago, there was cease fire aggrement, but today, sadly enough it's heavy fire shooting from every nook and cranny of the Gaza, I heard in BBC Worl Today: 1 person dead, and a number wounded. Kai Jama'a kujifa; between muslims who are alwaays saying La'ila ha'illa Allah.
Subsequently, I now no longer have an iota of symphathy upon them since they too have none upon themselves. Koba hakaba?
Allah ya kiyaye-Ameen!
U know the principle of divide and conquer??
Has it ever occurred to anyone that Israel might be behind the hargitsi between Hamas and Fatah? Couldnt Israeli snipers have been sent to kill those poor little tikes (whose father is a Fatah stalwart maybe he was the target we will never know)on their way to sch, thus setting off a chain reaction of counter attacks? Hamas has denied being behind the murder of the kids. Maybe they will deny it seeing that the condemnation for killing tiny tots is more than Hamas can handle. But I think Israel is probably behind this. In any case, it is very embarrassing. Israel and America must be laughing their bowels out at this Palestinian predicament.
Quote from: "Muhsin"Kai Jama'a kujifa; between muslims who are alwaays saying La'ila ha'illa Allah.
Kai you have missed the worst culprits- the Iraqis.
QuoteU know the principle of divide and conquer??
Has it ever occurred to anyone that Israel might be behind the hargitsi between Hamas and Fatah? Couldnt Israeli snipers have been sent to kill those poor little tikes (whose father is a Fatah stalwart maybe he was the target we will never know)on their way to sch, thus setting off a chain reaction of counter attacks? Hamas has denied being behind the murder of the kids. Maybe they will deny it seeing that the condemnation for killing tiny tots is more than Hamas can handle. But I think Israel is probably behind this. In any case, it is very embarrassing. Israel and America must be laughing their bowels out at this Palestinian predicament.
Well yes it did occur to me that some might assume that Israel is somewhat responsible behind the scenes - not surprising. But let's forget about Israel for a bit. When has 'condemnation for killing tiny tots' ever restrained the Hamas or any of the Fatah-associated militant groups in their violent struggle against Israel? It has not. So is it any surprise that now they seek to consume each other in a similar manner? They are only being themselves. Hatred and unbridled violence always bring ruin to those that harbour them as well as others. Therefore, these groups are squarely responsible for the recent misery in Gaza and deserve our widespread condemnation.
Israel's complicity in all this is the economic squeeze it, the EU and the US have imposed on the Hamas govt for its refusal to recognise the state of Israel. This action has made the govt unable to pay the salaries of over 100,000 of its workers, leading to civil unrest an putting the Hamas govt under pressure.
QuoteKai you have missed the worst culprits- the Iraqis.
Very true! Muhsin the Iraqi situiation is much worse; much, much worse. Do you know that the vast majority of violent Iraqi deaths in the past three years (over 400,000 lives)has actually been due to sunni-shia violence? Think about it :?
Groan.... here we go again.... Zionism, Lionger and (where is that fireball :shock: Ete?) versus Husnaa Muhsin, Waziri and a few others.... Lol I havent the energy for a long drawn out combat
:lol:. I cave in... what ever u say Lionger!!!!! :D
Lol Husnaa, what an amusing response! Here Muhsin started a thread on the Hamas-Fatah skirmishes, and the first thing you said is that Israel must be behind this somehow. So I say, why must Israel be directly responsible? Why not start with the facts that are immediately obvious - which is Hamas and Fatah? You barely contemplated that.
Now you have concluded that I'm arguing on the side of Zionism!! :lol: how could that be? What does Zionism have to do with this?? Why must I be arguing for Zionism because I said Hamas and Fatah are squarely to blame? Never mind the fact that I provided an avenue for Israeli complicity, which was your argument anyways!
No wonder these discussions wear us out. Months back when we discussed the Israel-Hezbollah conflict, the same thing happened: some sidelined the immediate facts and just lashed out at Israel. Waziri went a step further to attack Zionism, Judaism and the Jewish scriptures and we all know how that discussion ended. Seriously this obsession with Zionism will do no good. To allow ourselves to be consistently distracted by this specter simply obfuscates objective evaluation, which in this case starts nowhere else but with the Hamas and Fatah!
Don't worry, I ain't looking forward to another drawn-out debate here either. And I very much doubt that Ete will reappear any time soon. Wouldn't really be surprised if he disappeared in the same way that those Yerima threads did...
Why don't you look at something much closer to home. It has now been established that the arabic janjaweed militia in Darfur is actually killing and raping black Darfur refugees who have fled into refugee camps in Chad. They don't even have the Sunni v Shiite excuse. It is quite simply arab Moslems killing black Moslems with the connivance of the government of Sudan. The tiny Chad army is trying to guard the refugees in its area with little success.The latest figures from the UN put the death toll at about 250,000.
The African nations force sent into the Sudan to try to stop this is underfunded, under equipped and getting no funds from the UN or the USA which means they are almost powerless to intervene and do something about this - though it is hugely to Nigeria's credit that Nigeria provides most of these troops.
Obansanjo's pleas to the Un and the US for serious help are being ignored.
Much of this information is available on the web.
It's nearly as serious a matter as me posting rude jokes (sarcasm).
Quote from: "HUSNAA"Groan.... here we go again.... Zionism, Lionger and (where is that fireball :shock: Ete?) versus Husnaa Muhsin, Waziri and a few others.... Lol I havent the energy for a long drawn out combat
:lol:. I cave in... what ever u say Lionger!!!!! :D
C'mon Husnaa, how could you let lionger's words make your blood run cold? Don't you know their part? Remember...... :idea:
Quote from: "Dave_McEwan_Hill"Why don't you look at something much closer to home. It has now been established that the arabic janjaweed militia in Darfur is actually killing and raping black Darfur refugees who have fled into refugee camps in Chad. They don't even have the Sunni v Shiite excuse. It is quite simply arab Moslems killing black Moslems with the connivance of the government of Sudan. The tiny Chad army is trying to guard the refugees in its area with little success.The latest figures from the UN put the death toll at about 250,000.
The African nations force sent into the Sudan to try to stop this is underfunded, under equipped and getting no funds from the UN or the USA which means they are almost powerless to intervene and do something about this - though it is hugely to Nigeria's credit that Nigeria provides most of these troops.
Obansanjo's pleas to the Un and the US for serious help are being ignored.
Much of this information is available on the web.
It's nearly as serious a matter as me posting rude jokes (sarcasm).
Dave, you don't know the actual happenings there,I think. But those that are saying to have being killed by Janjawid are not Muslims. And that's why UN, US, UK and host of other external 'friends' of Muslims are worried. And as everyone is aware, Arabs are very racial; they (whites) can even murder the black ones 'cuz of colour difference. If that is the case. But God knows the best.
And moreover, I'll like you to understand; ones belief does't reveal his morality, decency, thoughtfulness, etc. Whatsoever they are doing to whoever, Allah is watching and He only can judge accordingly.
OBJ's has, to me, done nothing to call this off. What a person who fails restore peace in his home could have done so in others? What's happening nowadays in Niger-Delta oil region?
.
Quote from: "Muhsin"Kai Jama'a kujifa; between muslims who are alwaays saying La'ila ha'illa Allah.
Kai you have missed the worst culprits- the Iraqis.[/quote]
Yes I know its but there is thick line of demacation between the two. Eg You know how Shiites are; and you know their beliefs towards many true Islmaic fundementals. Thus no need to say much on that, ok?
Sincerely, I don't like to be too much 'blabber' on our religios internal affair while 'others' are onlooking, hearing with every fibre of their being. Hope you got it Husnaa.
Dave,
Stop worrying over that thing, life is multidimensional while we discuss the inappropriatness of your so-called crude joke we also discuss other things. I just came out of a political meeting that lasted 14 hours, another thing of life.
Concerning the subject of discourse here I must say that America and her Zionist policies must carry the blood of the Muslims killing themselves in Iraqi and recently in the places mentioned by Muhsin. Why? one may ask.
Anywhere in the world where there is a government, law and order and a foreign occupaying power came to topple that government leading the state to anarchy, the ppl in that state would not behave normally regardless of the faith they profess. Their will be crimes as much as armed robbery, sexual assaults on women and even killings of no proportions. Those among us trained in the social sciences know about this realism. So it is not new Muhsin.
Concerning Darfur, the Janjaweed are not killing the blacks in the interest of the government and that is why we are not worried. Janjaweed is a rebel wing just like Maitatsine of Kano in the 1980s which was a disaster to all not only Muslims.
Rubbish!
The janajweed is doing the will of the Sudan Government and everybody knows that except apologists with their heads in the sand.
The Sudan Governm,ent is preventing anybody stopping the killing.
I heard the general in charge of the Nigerian troops in Darfur say this in a live interview.
This bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Maitasine distrurbances in Kano.
The fact of the matter is that you only see what you want to see on any matter.
You seem to find the killing of ehnically black people in hundreds of thousands a matter of no importance. If it was the Americans or other bad white folk you'd be up in arms. Because it is moslem Arabs you'd rather just ignore it.
Then, it would have been treated by the International Communities like a war between the Darfurians and the Government. But instead the story is always like since the government of Sudan cannot handle the Janjaweed - a Maitatsine sort of, out of control of the government - then an International coalition is needed. This is the colour of the discourse even in media houses across the globe.
Remember, if the Nigerian soldier would accuse the government of Sudan of complicity, he did that expressing his own opinion about the crisis not the official position of Nigerian government. Whatevet the case maybe, we've said it here many times that what is happening in Sudan is wrong as we've been saying it in regard to Palestine, Iraq, Lebanon and Niger-Delta region in Nigeria. What else do you want?
General Colin Powell addressed the UN on this matter and described what is being done to the black people of Darfur as "genocide".
Muhsin,
QuoteC'mon Husnaa, how could you let lionger's words make your blood run cold? Don't you know their part? Remember......
Please point out what I said that would make Husnaa's blood boil. And what do you mean by 'our part'? Making the same mistake Husnaa did?
QuoteDave, you don't know the actual happenings there,I think. But those that are saying to have being killed by Janjawid are not Muslims. And that's why UN, US, UK and host of other external 'friends' of Muslims are worried. And as everyone is aware, Arabs are very racial; they (whites) can even murder the black ones 'cuz of colour difference. If that is the case. But God knows the best.
I think you really need to get your facts right, not Dave. Firstly,
the people of Darfur are overwhelmingly muslim. Look it up! This is not like the sudanese civil war that pitted the muslim north against the christian/animist south. The Darfurians are all muslim, African (for the most part, there are some Arab ethnicities) and they all speak Arabic. So you ought to be very concerned about Darfur - even more so than Palestine.
According to the UN and other NGO sources, over 400,000 Darfurian civillians are dead and over 2 million have left their homes in the 3+ years of fighting. Isn't that something to be concerned about? Never mind the fact that their being non-muslim should not make you apathetic!
UN and intl community concern has to do with the escalating humanitarian crisis, not the religious affiliation of Darfur victims.
Secondly,
QuoteOBJ's has, to me, done nothing to call this off. What a person who fails restore peace in his home could have done so in others? What's happening nowadays in Niger-Delta oil region?
What do you mean, 'OBJ has done nothing'? Nigerian troops make up a significant fraction of the 7000 AU peacekeeping forces currently in Darfur, and Nigeria has hosted peace talks between the rivalling parties. Nigeria and the AU have fallen short because they are ill-equipped and underfunded. The AU force was to be replaced by a much stronger and larger UN force long ago, but that didn't happen due to Sudanese opposition. Worse, the newly estabished UN Human Rights Council would rather discuss Israel and nothing else. It has taken increased pressure and clamoring from human rights groups, the international community and even Kofi Annan, for the Council to 'send a fact-finding team of experts' to the Sudan. Yet amazingly, this Council has 13 African members and over a third of its membership are OIC members! Shouldn't these nations know better?
Now concerning the Iraq situation you said
QuoteYes I know its but there is thick line of demacation between the two. Eg You know how Shiites are; and you know their beliefs towards many true Islmaic fundementals. Thus no need to say much on that, ok?
Haba Muhsin, are you implying that the Shiites are the only guilty sect in Iraq? Nothing could be farther from the truth! Please don't fall victim to an 'us vs. them' mentality; this ruins objectivity. I fear that this attitude is partly responsible for the apathetic response to Darfur. International pressure from the West on Sudan is obviously perceived by some as a an attack on Sudan's Islamic image/identity. Coupled with widespread ignorance of what is really happening there, this has goaded many into passing off what is infact an urgent humanitarian crises. This is indeed a tragedy!
Wel said, Lionger.
We have a saying in Scotland
"There's nane sae blind as thaim that willna see"
meaning
"There is nobody as blind as a person who refuses to see what is in front of him."
Waziri
This conflict cannot in any way be compared to the Maitatsine riots of the 80s. Such comparisons only serve to heavily understate the Darfur crisis. The Maitatsine movement was a rebel Muslim sect that violently challenged all established authorities, secular(state) and islamic, in Northern Nigeria; seeking to establish their 'Maitatsine' as absolute leader. The Janjaweed, on the other hand, are not a religious sect, nor are they a 'rebel wing' of any sort. They are a militia group derived from nomadic Arab ethnicities of the region, armed by the Sudanese government to resist the rebel groups in Darfur, against whom the regular army had previously suffered serious reverses when the conflict escalated in early 2003.
So the difference is clear:
1.One was a religious sect, the other mainly ethnic militia;
2. One sprang up outside the government and against the government; the other was established by and wages war with government forces.
3. And last but not least, the Janjaweed has caused far more misery that the Maitatsine riots did.
Contrary to what the Sudanese government says, the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other human rights groups have all declared that the Janjaweed is government-backed. They all agree with the Nigerian general. I've never heard any group or media describe the Janjaweed as a rebel group out of control - what are they rebelling against? They arent. The argument over whether this constitutes as genocide or not, over 400,000 people are dead, another 2.5 million homeless. That should be enough.
Quote from: "Dave_McEwan_Hill"Wel said, Lionger.
We have a saying in Scotland
"There's nane sae blind as thaim that willna see"
meaning
"There is nobody as blind as a person who refuses to see what is in front of him."
Let me first of all start by thanking our heavy-weight Forum member. Thanks for your brusqueness.
No enough time. Hope to reply fully on your comments.....hold on!
No enough time. Hope to reply fully on your comments when i came back.....hold on!
Quote from: "lionger"Lol Husnaa, what an amusing response! And I very much doubt that Ete will reappear any time soon. Wouldn't really be surprised if he disappeared in the same way that those Yerima threads did...
(http://freeweb.supereva.com/esorciccio2002/smilies/omg.gif)!!!YOU MEAN ETE WAS DELETED LIKE THE YERIMA THREADS??!!!(http://camou.net/udg/smilie/e021.gif)
i'M OUTTA HERE PRONTO!!(http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/MemoryLane/bolt.gif)
I still stand by my understanding that Darfur's crisis is a rebellion that has no blessing from the government of Sudan just like Maitatsine crisis of the early 80's of Nigeria that was way out of the control of the government.
Again, for us Muslims following the Western Media with keen interest and its war on Islam vis a vis the West's long standing antagonism to the Sudanese Government on issues of foreing policies and laws, we find it very difficult to agree with them now when they accuse the Sudanese government of complicity in the crisis bedeviling Darfur. Infact, we would not be suprised if it is said the Janjaweed gets some covert aproval and support from the West in carrying its activities. That the government of Sudan maybe black painted and that the West may find reason to bring to bear on another Arab soil, the presence of its heavy military machinary.
Quote from: Dave_McEwan_Hill on December 23, 2006, 01:04:33 AM
General Colin Powell addressed the UN on this matter and described what is being done to the black people of Darfur as "genocide".
Let me start by you old Dave.
Question: Who is Colin Powel that his words would be taken as that of saint?
Remember where he's now. And why is he there? Simply its because of groundless allegation against Iraq, isn't it? And this is something that everybody has already seen its bare bone. C'mon, stop saying that as a
mere reason. Ok? If not............ :-[ ???
Lionger,
To be honest, I can simply say a bit well said. But with lots of miscosntrues.
Quote from: lionger on December 23, 2006, 12:11:35 PM
Muhsin,
QuoteC'mon Husnaa, how could you let lionger's words make your blood run cold? Don't you know their part? Remember......
Please point out what I said that would make Husnaa's blood boil. And what do you mean by 'our part'? Making the same mistake Husnaa did?
Well, I here don't know what mistake you actually are talking of. Need to clarify. And my meaning by your part is plainly your belief. Hope I didn't sound too .......
QuoteDave, you don't know the actual happenings there,I think. But those that are saying to have being killed by Janjawid are not Muslims. And that's why UN, US, UK and host of other external 'friends' of Muslims are worried. And as everyone is aware, Arabs are very racial; they (whites) can even murder the black ones 'cuz of colour difference. If that is the case. But God knows the best.
I think you really need to get your facts right, not Dave. Firstly, the people of Darfur are overwhelmingly muslim. Look it up! This is not like the sudanese civil war that pitted the muslim north against the christian/animist south. The Darfurians are all muslim, African (for the most part, there are some Arab ethnicities) and they all speak Arabic. So you ought to be very concerned about Darfur - even more so than Palestine. According to the UN and other NGO sources, over 400,000 Darfurian civillians are dead and over 2 million have left their homes in the 3+ years of fighting. Isn't that something to be concerned about? Never mind the fact that their being non-muslim should not make you apathetic!
UN and intl community concern has to do with the escalating humanitarian crisis, not the religious affiliation of Darfur victims.
Sincerely, I now come to understanding that they really are almost all Muslims. But again,UN, US or others has a concealed agenda towards that undeveloped counrty which has 'ocean' of petrol. I think thats what they eventually want more that peace there. Thats why Umar Al-bashar is agaist sending their troops to his country as peacekeepers. I'm just conjecturing here!
Secondly,
QuoteOBJ's has, to me, done nothing to call this off. What a person who fails restore peace in his home could have done so in others? What's happening nowadays in Niger-Delta oil region?
What do you mean, 'OBJ has done nothing'? Nigerian troops make up a significant fraction of the 7000 AU peacekeeping forces currently in Darfur, and Nigeria has hosted peace talks between the rivalling parties. Nigeria and the AU have fallen short because they are ill-equipped and underfunded. The AU force was to be replaced by a much stronger and larger UN force long ago, but that didn't happen due to Sudanese opposition. Worse, the newly estabished UN Human Rights Council would rather discuss Israel and nothing else. It has taken increased pressure and clamoring from human rights groups, the international community and even Kofi Annan, for the Council to 'send a fact-finding team of experts' to the Sudan. Yet amazingly, this Council has 13 African members and over a third of its membership are OIC members! Shouldn't these nations know better?
Catagorically yes! Are the so-called Nigerian troops you were talking of send there under Nigerian flag? No! They are send under AU, but OBJ maintain the facade that they are under his country. I have heard that all their finance is in dollars. Thus do you think OBJ can do that? And hosting peace talk. When did it started? And what position is OBJ's then in AU? So, its something that he must do he did.
Now concerning the Iraq situation you said
QuoteYes I know its but there is thick line of demacation between the two. Eg You know how Shiites are; and you know their beliefs towards many true Islmaic fundementals. Thus no need to say much on that, ok?
Haba Muhsin, are you implying that the Shiites are the only guilty sect in Iraq? Nothing could be farther from the truth! Please don't fall victim to an 'us vs. them' mentality; this ruins objectivity. I fear that this attitude is partly responsible for the apathetic response to Darfur. International pressure from the West on Sudan is obviously perceived by some as a an attack on Sudan's Islamic image/identity. Coupled with widespread ignorance of what is really happening there, this has goaded many into passing off what is infact an urgent humanitarian crises. This is indeed a tragedy!
Even if Shiites aren't they are the keys. And I doubt if you know who presicely is Shiites in Islam. If you do, you wouldn't have expressed you support for whatsoever they commited. I think I would have to post a thread on who is Shiites or you would have to search for that since you frequent the Internet.Thanks for your interest on such affair. 8)
Muhsin
QuoteSincerely, I now come to understanding that they really are almost all Muslims. But again,UN, US or others has a concealed agenda towards that undeveloped counrty which has 'ocean' of petrol. I think thats what they eventually want more that peace there. Thats why Umar Al-bashar is agaist sending their troops to his country as peacekeepers. I'm just conjecturing here!
Well of course this is all conjecture; and of questionable basis. Before you said the UN was only interested because the victims were non-Muslim. Now that has been debunked, you're saying the UN is only interested because of oil. Obviously your stern belief is that the UN cannot have pure motives in drawing attention to Darfur. Is there basis for such reasoning?
QuoteCatagorically yes! Are the so-called Nigerian troops you were talking of send there under Nigerian flag? No! They are send under AU, but OBJ maintain the facade that they are under his country. I have heard that all their finance is in dollars. Thus do you think OBJ can do that? And hosting peace talk. When did it started? And what position is OBJ's then in AU? So, its something that he must do he did.
OBJ's efforts in Darfur may be solely the result his responsibilities as AU head, but that is besides the point. If you accept that he indeed acted through the AU, then how can you still claim that he has 'done nothing'? Nigeria has supplied more troops than anyone else, haven't they? Has OBJ not done more through the AU than others? Your statement makes no sense.
QuoteEven if Shiites aren't they are the keys. And I doubt if you know who presicely is Shiites in Islam. If you do, you wouldn't have expressed you support for whatsoever they commited. I think I would have to post a thread on who is Shiites or you would have to search for that since you frequent the Internet.
You completely misunderstood my words! Nowhere did I express any support whatsoever for the Shiites. What I'm saying is that it is very wrong and thoroughly incorrect of anyone to claim that the sectarian violence in Iraq is solely because of the Shiites and not the Sunnis. Precise knowledge of the Shiites and their beliefs is not the point. The point is that both the Sunnis and the Shiites have contributed much to the misery in Iraq. Once again I suspect that your facts are not quite in order.
QuoteI still stand by my understanding that Darfur's crisis is a rebellion that has no blessing from the government of Sudan just like Maitatsine crisis of the early 80's of Nigeria that was way out of the control of the government.
This does not address in any way the concerns I brought up. Thus, I'm afraid your argument remains in the awkward position of being groundless.
Quote
Again, for us Muslims following the Western Media with keen interest and its war on Islam vis a vis the West's long standing antagonism to the Sudanese Government on issues of foreing policies and laws, we find it very difficult to agree with them now when they accuse the Sudanese government of complicity in the crisis bedeviling Darfur. Infact, we would not be suprised if it is said the Janjaweed gets some covert aproval and support from the West in carrying its activities. That the government of Sudan maybe black painted and that the West may find reason to bring to bear on another Arab soil, the presence of its heavy military machinary.
This 'Western/media bias' argument is a much overused, and in this case, utterly tragic excuse.
Must the Darfurian civillians be abandoned to die just so we can score a meaningless point of defiance against the West? This validates what I said to Muhsin earlier:
QuoteInternational pressure from the West on Sudan is obviously perceived by some as a an attack on Sudan's Islamic image/identity. Coupled with widespread ignorance of what is really happening there, this has goaded many into passing off what is infact an urgent humanitarian crises. This is indeed a tragedy!
I sympathise completely with you on this one, Lionger. As I pointed out in an earlier post ther are some in this forum who are blind on this issue - and deliberately so. They refuse to see.
Dave,
For it is the hard truth. Many a times you too have expressed doubts on certain reports given by the Western Media even when you do not have better means of verifying their claims. For Muslim world, the West is worst. We have lost confidence in their tone of objective reporting to the extent that we do not know when to believe them or not. What is not without political connotation in their reporting and what is.
In as much as we unanimouly condemn what is happening in Darfur, we also can't not agree with the West on every reporting it makes about the complicity of the Sudanese Government on the crisis. In Iraq we saw a claim of WMD that was not so also in Sudan we may see a claim of something that is not. We can't allow ourselves to be fooled always.
I have stopped responding at Lionger long ago, since after he attacked my personality on the other issues confirming my assertion that he is not my mate in any discourse concerning the politics, sociology and other indices of human deveplopment across the globe.
I am perfectly happy to take the word of the leader of the African peace keeping troops in Darfur, though of course you will probably imagine that he is a poodle of the West as well.
There is no point in me continuing this thread with you.
The death toll in the Darfur region is now estimated to be 400,000 black people.
It is probably more comfortable to pretend they did not exist.
Husnaa, you need to calm down and not get overly excited over my extended absence from this forum.
Ok, I am back. Now what? ;D
Ete
Suit ya self Dave, it is fine with me.
Hello,
Ete, now NewEte, you are welcome back on board. Hope this time....... ;D.
Sincerely, I begin to lose my train of thought concerning such affairs. What a detestable they are growing into. My people, in order to set my heart free, this is what should rightly be done, I believe. Isn't it? For, I have one rotten feeling, and thats of taking things that are below my ankle to the high of mountain. Thus as far as I don't do that; anything can happen.
For instance; I was yesterday watching CNN, and today listening to BBC WorldToday and Hausa Site, when I disheartenly heard/saw somethings very, very horrible. I.e
1-Islamic faction Fatah vowed to continue almost fighting with its counterpart-Hamas.They even abducted one 'big' member of the latter.2- Few, fresh fighting in Somalia. Thus discussion going on how to take peacekeepers (probably US troops) to there. 3- Sudanees-Dafurian in worst situation. 4- Bombs blasted in Irag, where tens had died. Hence, Bush is thinking of sending more marines there. etc. What a more demoralising?
I'm dead tired from hearing these. Fighting between........everywhere? Kai!
Waziri, Dave, lionger, Husnaa please forget this. Lets talk about our country.And other issues. And let them fend for thier own. Though, some of us mentioned are muslims, so please feel sympathy just for our brothers and sisters. Even this is quiet enough!
Your youngest bro.
Muhsin
My prayer is that; the ongoing discussion in Syria between these two faction group is gonna end up with a good harvest-Ameen.
Yeah Mushin, you are right. Those news reports are demoralising. Stop watching CNN and stop listening to BBC English or hausa service. It is the same thing. You don't need to hear these sad stories. You need to watch something that will make you laugh and uplift your spirit. Watch Tom and Jerry cartoon instead. It may make you laugh, and laughter is good for your soul.
Malam Sabo Ete, this advice is not only for Muhsin, I think I also need it.
Quote from: NewEte on January 24, 2007, 07:42:18 PM
Yeah Mushin, you are right. Those news reports are demoralising. Stop watching CNN and stop listening to BBC English or hausa service. It is the same thing. You don't need to hear these sad stories. You need to watch something that will make you laugh and uplift your spirit. Watch Tom and Jerry cartoon instead. It may make you laugh, and laughter is good for your soul.
Lol :)
But why shan't I be worried about them? Their affair is mine as they are muslims. Their being far away from me matters not. I can't excape!
Though, your hint is welcome. I'll soon start mixing-up the two. So, there then, my depression will likely be minimized, isn't it?
Quote from: Dan-Borno on January 24, 2007, 10:38:38 PM
Malam Sabo Ete, this advice is not only for Muhsin, I think I also need it.
Lol Dan Borno (http://ide.li/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif)
Ete is being his usual sarcastic self, he doesnt mean it as genuine advice to l'l Muhsin. He's making fun of him.
(http://graphicheaven.homestead.com/files/ironmaideonavatar.gif)
Nima na dawo daga rakiyarsa
lol
Alan gubro na so in yi maka magana akan sa amma na ce ba dai in kyale ka.Basu da hankali ko kadan,ga raina mutane da addinin mu da dabi'un mu.Ba a girma ma su sai su dauka dan sun fi mu ne.ka zo kana kiran sa Yaya, bakin ciki kamar ya kashe ni.Na san su kamar wutar cikina kuma ba su san komai ba.
NEW DEVELOPMENT
I yesterday heard in the news that Isma'il Haniyah, Palastinian Leader and his government resigned. He did so to restore the peace and establish a new government of both Hamas and Fatah representatives. Great Kudus to King Abdallah for giving birth to this new dev. He (Abdallah) is the person who through every thick and thin called on the two Islamic factions to table. And now it ends with a good harvest.
We are always praying for eternal unity among our Muslims sis&bros. Allah ya kara bamu zaman lafiya-Ameem!
Have you yesterday heard there thoughtless poeple have resume with their bloody almost sectarian violance? Wallah basu da tunani kwata-kwata in my own view.
What's yours?
I think it is the effect of the sanctions da aka samusu by the West. They are so frustrated, they are taking it out on each other in lieu of anyone nearby. I think under ordinary circumstances with the economy going smoothly, they wouldnt turn on each other. Tunda ai Fatah and Hamas have been around each other for a long time and this has never happened even if they didnt trust one other and eye each other warily.
personally, while I believe the sanctions played and are still playing a part in this present escalation, I think the underlying problem is an old one. Hamas and fatah have always been silent rivals in the palestinian lands. Peace prevailed because up until now, Hamas did not stake any claim to political power.. (as my friend waziri wisely points out, when there exists and underlying interest, even friends can become enemies)..
The point of friction arose when Hamas vied for political power as well... they're both fighting for supremacy n they're using the avenue they both knw best.. where no straight rules exist and where only the last man standing shall take it all... The palestinian problem as deep and complex as it is, is further saddening when you see them turn on themselves and destroy what little they have. They fight themselves and their percieved common enemy laughs. They loose sympathy daily from those who thought genuine development may be possible in Palestine. I wonder how, despite the donations and funding they get from the Arab nations (evidence proves they do get a lot), there doesnt seem to be an idea for long term development. they blame Isreal continously, bt how much of that blame really belongs to Isreal? When the Prophet (S.A.W) was forced from Makkah, to madinah, what did he do?.. He consolidated his power base in Madinah, developed the city, its people and the city's overall capabilities, gradually expanding to recapture his home.. While I genuinely respect Arab courage, they have to realise that sometimes Pride is stupidity and sometimes you have to accept defeat whole hertedly today in order to win tomorrow...
This may sound naive, but shouldnt Hamas and Fatah channel the funds they use to acquire amunition to pay their people and develop there communities or even equip a national army, Palestine woul've been a much better place..
Its not hamas and its stubborn leadership that I am worried about, neither is it Fatah and there curropt and weak officials I am concerned about..
My concern is for the poor palestinian woman who wants nothing more than food to feed her children. I close my eyes and I imagine her tears n prayers, day and night, hoping that maybe, just may be, one blessed day, her children may see a better day...
Well said Sheriff 05. If you continue tailing the news, you must have heard that it now almost completely changes form. It's now Israelis that are fighting them. And, they don't have any to pick-out but they fight both Hamas and Fatah people including even civilians.
But, one surprising news; some world political heavy-weights are claiming that Israelis are backing Fatah. What do you know about this thought?
To be honest Alhaji Muhsin, I haven't heard this theory. But it seems very plausible. Think about it.
The Palestinian people predominantly back Hamas.
As a joint force, Hamas and Fatah speaking with one voice would signify Palestinian unity.
The election victory of Hamas means that should they obtain and maintain political dominance and decide to use their mandate to further their cause, they would give their plight a lot more legitimacy in the international arena.
Therefore, all effort could be channelled to deny hamas the opportunity to rule in peace, by instigating fatah against them. It actually makes sense because it forces Hamas to fight back, therefore, loosing its' standing in the international world, and ensures that in the absence of law and order, chaos will reign, further crippling the government and giving credence to the theory that Hamas is a violent and terrorist organisation.
This is however completely conjecture and has no factual backing what-so-ever.
I have to also say that it should've been fairly obvious to Hamas that without making concessions, they cannot with their present motto, continue to receive funding from the powers. That much was obvious. How can Israel collect tax and on behalf of the Palestinian government and give it to that same government to build up capability to fight them? Come on? You don't have to be an Israeli to understand why that will never happen.
While it is easy to blame Israel or the "powers that be", I think a more productive approach would be, to Question the tactics of Hamas in dealing with this onslaught. Hamas should've known that judging by its reputation and the fierce nature of opposition from the international as well as the Israeli community, all efforts would be made to frustrate them. I have to say that was fairly obvious. Therefore, (as difficult as it may be), I feel, they should've thought about this and therefore planned how to effectively circumvent these powers, and introduce greater diplomacy and dynamic governance. The concept should've been to prove to the world that contrary to what you may think, we are indeed capable of building a successful government that can cater to the needs of our people. The idea is to appreciate the fact that all hope would be on the government to fail and therefore aim to prove them wrong.
I am no politician and to be honest I've lost all interested in politics. I just feel though, that Hamas ought to appreciate the value of long term planning, and to know, that the best chess players are great, not because they think well about their move before they make it, but because they anticipate their opponents' move and then counter it before it happens.... and through the eyes of the global powers, what else is global politics, if not a game?
The only way Hamas can continue to defy Israel and the rest of the western communities and build a successful government is with the backing of the rich Arabian gulf nations. Otherwise there is no other option open for them except to backtrack and recognize the sovereignty of Israel. Barring that, in so far as Hamas is in power, the Palestinian ppl will continue to suffer. It is rather unfortunate, given that Hamas is genuinely a ppl oriented party rather than Fatah, which has a history of curruption taintint its image.
One other thing about Israel backing Fatah, it may not be so, but I do remember in one thread I brought up the notion that some of the provocations that happened like the killing of a Hamas or Fatah stalwart and a denial by either of the accused parties could have been the handywork of the Israelis to stir up trouble between the two factions and ensure that they dont unite as a single entity. It is not a difficult scenario to set up since both Israelis and Palestinians carry out clandestine operations in each others' territory.
Another thing that is really amazing me is the way some 'Islamic' nations publicly capitulate to the western demands of secularization by publicly denouncing Islam. One of these nations is Turkey which tried to eliminate Islam under Ataturk, but succeeded in partitioning the religion from Politics. Now all of a sudden there is a public outcry against a politician who is deemed to be pro islam and the ppl dont want him in office because of that! I mean I shake my head. This to me is almost tantamount to denying Islam itself. Anyway the turkish govt is desperate to be part of the EU. It wants all the appurtenances that come with being part of the union. What they are forgetting is that arziki na Allah ne and He Is the Giver of it not the EU. Kuma they are willing to disregard fadar Ubangiji in the holy Quran that the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with us until we follow their religion. About two yrs ago, something exactly like this happened quit literally when some Afghan refugees were stranded in Australian waters looking for asylum. The govt of Mr Howard refused to grant them. The Afghans announced that they were renouncing Islam and converting to christianity. Believe me they were granted the asylum and Howard told the world that it wasnt because they renounced islam that they were given asylum.. I shake my head again. Now what is happening is this Lebanese fiasco whereby the Lebanese army is killing civilians in a Palestinian refugee camp all in the name of trying to flush out islamic fundametalists hiding in the camps. Who are they kidding?
And Bush sent his approval of the killings from Air Force One en route to some destination or other..... I shake my head.......
The ever ending suffering!
Allah ya kawo sauki, yayi musu ruwan sanyi.
Have you heard that at tail end,after killing themselves, demolishing their own houses, abducting their own sons, friends, fathers, etc. that they are now jubilating that Hamas win the battle? What a joke?
Wai kuma, Mahmud Abbas sacked Isma'el Haniya?
Can dai! Wishing someday, I'll out-and-out forget everything about those jerks.
I once told some arab friends of mine that when ever the issue of Fatah and Hamas came up, or like the sunnis and Shiites in Iraq or Lebanon, I cringe in embarrassment. I mean I am not an arab, but because of the affinity we have bcos of Islam, I really become embarrassed when discussing the Palestinian issue with westerners. Arabs turn round and kill themselves which is a big shame. Who would then sympathise with them? They just protray themselves as trigger happy and bloodthirsty. And countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states just sit on their fat asses and look on. All so that they wont lose any of their assets in the process of helping their brothers. What kind of a ppl are these? Look at us in Africa, Africans try and help each other in times of stress at least. Kuffour just offered to send troops into somalia; Uganda has already sent some troops there. Nigeria was involved with ecomog and got Charles Taylor out of Liberia and paved the way for ellen Johnson sirleaf. The AU looks at the issues at least even if it is an impotent organization to say the least :-\
PS I am really happy for Ghana which has just struck the black gold also. Lets see what Kuffour can do in five yrs to put Nigeria to shame. Maybe then we will start to behave ourselves.
Now Tony Blair is a peace broker in the middle east.
The Arabs should be ashamed of themselves.this attitude of theirs gives Islam a bad image.
The same reason Husnaa mentioned was why Gaddafi abandoned the "Arab league".
I dont know of any issue in the middle east which the Arab league has contributed in solving rather they always call on America and Britain to broker peace.
Honestly Africans are far better than them.
I just wish that the Palestinian Arabs will accept a peace settlement with Israel and just live peacefully side by side. This war for territory has dragged on for so long. The Israelis are not a bad bunch of ppl in reality. They are just ordinary scared individuals just like the Palestinians. When I see an Israeli citizen on TV hurt (which isnt often) I feel just as bad as when I see a Palestinian citizen hurt (which is quite often). I only hate the Israeli army, but I feel sorry for gilat shallot or what ever his name is. He is in the israeli army, but he is also a pitiful human being if u divorce him from the army, and must be feeling really scared and miserable as his captors must keep him in constant misery, just as the israelis keep those thousands of Palestinian women and children incarcerated in their jails in constant misery. What a tragedy!!
Aunty wallahi abin takaici, these people are really
suffering, just watched a documentary by Aljazeera
International.