"The Negro more than any other human types, have been marked out by his MENTAL and physical characteristics as the servant of other races. There are of course exceptions...But the Negro in a primitive state is born slave. He is possesed of great physical strength, DOCILITY, cheerfulness of disposition, A SHORT MEMORY FOR SORROWS AND CRUELTIES, and an easily grattitude for kindness and fast dealing....Above all he can toil hard under the hot sun and in the unhealthy climates of the Torrid Zone. He has little or no race -fellowship- that is to say he has no sympathy for other Negroes...And as he is a usually strong man and a good fighter, he has come into request not only as a labourer but also as a soldier." ( Emphasis added)
Sir Harry Hamilton Johnston,
A History of Colonisation of Africa by Alien Races [pp 151-152]
Cambridge, England, 1899
the person that wrote this suck! ;)
(Sir___)
the person that wrote this suck! ;) (I'm sorry)
(sir---)
Disgusting cr*p, but in those days the arrogant English believed they were so,so superior to everybody else in God's world. Some of them (a few) still do. You should read what they thought of the Irish. And as for us Scots they called us "the very bastards of creation" and always sent Scottish
soldiers into battle at the very front on the basis that if they got killed it was of no importance. At least Nigeria got free. Some of us in Scotland are trying very hard to get free of English rule.
Hi Papa. Take it your online then? Is that you ranting about Independence again?!
Waziri why did you post this excerpt?
Lionger,
I may be doing the wrong thing.... But I only thought... may be we should discuss it... You know... maybe we can refute it or reaffirm it... I just dunno
QuoteDisgusting cr*p, but in those days the arrogant English believed they were so,so superior to everybody else in God's world. Some of them (a few) still do. You should read what they thought of the Irish. And as for us Scots they called us "the very bastards of creation" and always sent Scottish
soldiers into battle at the very front on the basis that if they got killed it was of no importance. At least Nigeria got free. Some of us in Scotland are trying very hard to get free of English rule.
Sir,
Your comment are indeed helpful, but it appears like what they say in regard to the black race is worst. And unfortunately they sometimes use passages from the Holy Bible like Genesis Chapter 9 to justify their claims, believing that the black race are the decent of Ham the son of Noah who was cursed by God and was proclaimed to remain the servant of the other two sons forever. This theory is known to our students of history to be HAMITIC theory.
It is still unfortunate that recorded history has not in anyway favoured the Black race with anything of sagacity, technology or the art of time management and effective policy implementation. But the same recorded history has given races like Scots prominence. For in the book The 100 a ranking of The Most Influencial Men In History, written by Michael H. Hart, you will find that no fewer than five persons are Scots and the rest are ppl from Asia, Europe, America and North Africa but none is from Black Africa.
I dunno Sir, some group, Ku Klux Klan, speak also of the superiority of the Aryan race in particular, are Scots also part of the Aryan race?
I am not an anthropologist by training, it is only that I am curious, I only want to know what others think about all these stuff. Maybe that will help me form an opinion of myself.
NOTE.
I am full blooded Negro
Sir,
I also think that the British may have some justification also in Darwin's Theory of Evolution, which spoke largely on some favoured races, that some races are more evolved than others.
Waziri
The "Aryan" concept was nonsense genetics invented to justify deeply wicked behaviour by the Nazis. It excluded not only black people from the "master race" but also semitics, caucasians,gypsies and other peoples who didn't suit their lunatic theory. I am a white and a Scot. But I don't believe that all whites and all Scots are good people. That's not the way the world is. Blacks, whites, browns and yellows, we are all a mixture of good people and bad people and most of us somewhere in between. I am proud of Scotland but very ashamed that some people of Scots descent were involved in the Ku Klux Klan. As the whole human race is descended from Africans the evolution question is a complicated one. We all have the same DNA which proves our common descent. I suspect different stages of development were probably due to factors like different and difficult environments and climate.
i think this is a racist room. C'mon peep this things had passed let's forget all this we want to live in peace. i know u have the freedom of speach but think of something better and forget about u r a negro he is white God made all the same and we are equal. the Brits that u are blaming have died hundred years back. this is the new millen plsssssss :)
This is how you see it IBB n ERROr but in reality thats wrong. Those ppl that you said are dead had passed the trait down to their children and their childrens' children so the issue is still on and YES they still think they are superior than us. Hope you don't mind but this is it. ;D ;D ;D
This topic is very intersting. There is still racism, no doubt. All people are not good or wise. Most racists are inferior or stupid people who need to find somebody to look down on or hate. Racism will not be defeated if we pretend it doesn't happen but we can discuss the matter with calm. But most people are not racists. Most Brits are OK. Interesting thought. If you did a vote in Europe who is the greatest man of the 20th century Nelson Mandela would probably win. If you asked who was the wickedist many would vote Idi Amin. Does this tell us anything?
First of all, Ibb `n error, u got this all wrong...u r wrong.
Mr.David, we r glad to have u here.
QuoteAs the whole human race is descended from Africans the evolution question is a complicated one. We all have the same DNA which proves our common descent. I suspect different stages of development were probably due to factors like different and difficult environments and climate. ?
I think we could solve this using history...[/color]
It is believed that mankind started at one point, of a very few number and the point is believed to be somewhere in Asia. Now all the people in the world were(hope they still are) equal, before the migrations... As people migrated to different and farther locations at different times, language and skin colour, beliefs and traditions chage along. The african people were all believed to come from Asia, even the negroids. The people lattitudes negative and possitive 0-20 degrees all over the world are blacks...as a result of excessive heat and sun exposure than any other region on earth. This means that the skin color also defers by ecological and other natural factors.
This should explain the reason why we have the same dna`s and stuff, we are the same, a dog in asia is a dog in america, simple as such.
Quote
l, but it appears like what they say in regard to the black race is worst.
All I know iz that we are black and proud. But common Waz, that was then!!!!! Racism was in one way or d other walking hand in hand with slavery.......but now can they du that? Absolutely not, even wen ppl r still racist.......cummon!!! we have rights!!!. This is not back then!!!
Anyways I will b bck
Quote
All I know iz that we are black and proud. But common Waz, that was then!!!!! Racism was in one way or d other walking hand in hand with slavery.......but now can they du that? Absolutely not, even wen ppl r still racist.......cummon!!! we have rights!!!. This is not back then!!!
Anyways I will b bck
Slavery is still going on ,but in a different dimension through their agents like the IMF and WORLD BANK.
I agree that IMFand World Bank are often agents of American foreign policy. Over many years they have loaned huge sums of money to poor countries who will never be able to pay the loan back and then the IMF starts to tell that country what to grow and what to produce to pay the interest on the loan. In short, the IMF and World Bank colonises these countries' economies and they then do what America wants. I remember Nigeria resisting loans like this because Nigeria understood.
But there is another question to be faced. In many, many cases the rulers of these countries have grabbed most of the loan money for themselves and their family and friends for their foreign bank accounts in London, Switzerland and America. (Does this sound familiar vis Nigerian Oil Revenues?)But it is the poor workers and farmers of that country who have to work for almost no wages to produce to pay the loan back. Who then is to blame for the "slavery"?
Assalamu alaikum
I must say i am in sharp disagreement with what Sir Harry Hamilton said, but you will also agree with me that there is an element of truth to the argument even though the premise and intent that brought about his thesis is entirely false.
I am saying this because if one looks at the backward nature and barbarity of the animist black people of sudan and else where, you cannot but agree that the mental capacity of the bush man is certainly inferior to that of the urban black man or any other.
That is not to say the caucasian is at the apex of the mental pyramid. It can be shown by emphirical evidence that semites, both Jews and Arabs, are much smarter fundamentally.
I hate to say this but if one disagrees with me, then he must justify why everyday people kill others in this continent of ours.
Allah ya sawwake.
Amin
salam.....PEOPLE....what we need in this continent of ours is more LUV towards each other.....
soooooo we are here complaining "that white dude is racist"...."man, i was just discriminated".......
dude....how do u xpect someone else to start showing u LUV while within urselves u dont show love!!!!
now thats mah beef with black peeps! u ocasionally hear black folx saying "Man he's so black...why u wanna marry him"
man im tired.... I am so sick and tired....u want somebody else to respect u..... how about start within urselves!
thanx for da thought sis myadadu
peace peeps and remember...1 LUV
QuoteWaziri
The "Aryan" concept was nonsense genetics invented to justify deeply wicked behaviour by the Nazis. It excluded not only black people from the "master race" but also semitics, caucasians,gypsies and other peoples who didn't suit their lunatic theory. I am a white and a Scot. But I don't believe that all whites and all Scots are good people. That's not the way the world is. Blacks, whites, browns and yellows, we are all a mixture of good people and bad people and most of us somewhere in between. I am proud of Scotland but very ashamed that some people of Scots descent were involved in the Ku Klux Klan. As the whole human race is descended from Africans the evolution question is a complicated one. We all have the same DNA which proves our common descent. I suspect different stages of development were probably due to factors like different and difficult environments and climate. ?
You see, to the evolutionists, the truth that all human beings have the same DNA is no enough reason to believe that all human beings are equal. "There are many other factors that are responsible to human character and disposition", he would say. "After all the Negro represents the 'missing link' the very point at which gorilla turned to human being." Now, you see why is it that as long as theory of evolution remains legitimate in the world of science, the Negro will never be able to secure an escape route.
And again, it appears like some of us have forgotten that racists are and were never peculiar to some ages of our history. It was at the turn of the millennium that Tommy Hilfiger, the world-class fashion designer made his statements that are even worst than what Harry Hamilton said. If you can still remember it was on a show like that of Winfrey Oprah. Sincerely speaking I don't want to be quoting these millennium racists, because my self cannot bear the pains of repeating what they say, but I think we can try this link: www.stormfront.org, that is if we really want to have a soured evening. One can even get to download the book, that racist's manual: MEIN KAMF, written by the master racist, the chief architect of the genocide blue print: Adolf Hitler.
Yes, Pa David has it right; we can discuss race issue with some calm. And I on my part do not really believe that all Whites are bad, NO. Remember it was David Duke, the former president of the Ku Klux Klan that gave the most objective analysis of the September 11 attack. And I personally respect the years of imperial Britain and France more than these years of imperial Israel. At least imperial Britain has had something of morality to offer to those it had contact with, unlike imperial Israel, which offers only blackmail and terror, with materialism to buttress.
Mr David, Klan's men hate not only Negroes but also the Semites, Caucasians and other races, but yet they always do have course to respect them or credit them with some intelligence. Even the master racist saw reasons why the Prophet of Islam can qualify to be a great man of his own class (pls see Mein Kamf). And it is amid them that the worship of Christ who is a devout Jew of even the Essene group is being done by their very race. But when it comes to the Black African, they say he is cursed in theology and in science they say he is the "missing link" at which gorilla turned to human being. Wherever the tip turns he loses in huge amounts. It is unfortunate.
Britons, believing Mandela to be the greatest man of the century, I really would have doubted this, had it been it was from someone else other than Mr David. I know Ukites(as in ppl from UK) to be highly cultured, remember what they did to Jeffrey Archer, their own son when they learnt of his illicit affairs. Remember also they said about Clinton over Lewinsky issue. And yet they believe Mandela to be the greatest man of the century after having had all sorts of crises with Winnie? Well, whatever the case may be, I think I am not in a very good position to access the situation.
Wait a minute! Some guest has something here:
QuoteAssalamu alaikum
I must say i am in sharp disagreement with what Sir Harry Hamilton said, but you will also agree with me that there is an element of truth to the argument even though the premise and intent that brought about his thesis is entirely false.
I am saying this because if one looks at the backward nature and barbarity of the animist black people of sudan and else where, you cannot but agree that the mental capacity of the bush man is certainly inferior to that of the urban black man or any other.
That is not to say the caucasian is at the apex of the mental pyramid. It can be shown by emphirical evidence that semites, both Jews and Arabs, are much smarter fundamentally.
I hate to say this but if one disagrees with me, then he must justify why everyday people kill others in this continent of ours.
Allah ya sawwake.
Amin
I think he is making sense and Mr David has even concurred with what he said adding that Negro is the one "slaving" his brothers, in the words of Harry Hamilton, Negro has no "Race Fellowship". I will here add that it was the same Negroes that killed Malcom X and ( I am not concrete sure, I am 20 miles away from my library ) Martin Luther King (Jnr), who have spared everything thing they do in life to fight for Negroes. May be we should start looking at what Hamilton Johston said from another viewpoint. May be we should be more objective applying more reason at the expense of emotions. Maybe we should forget that it was one white man that wrote that and just look straight at the substance of the argument. Maybe we should look inward again.
The ever provocative Waziri again! Personally I believe the theory of evolution is a still "theory" and not yet a completely understood fact. There are still too many unexplained puzzles. No reputable scientist suggests the negro is the "missing link". This is the sort of evil talk of the Ku Klux Klan.The missing link is still missing. What we are looking for is the explanation for how the human brain is so very much larger than even the most intelligent of the ape family. Evolution alone cannot yet explain this huge difference. Did God intervene? I read today they have found the earliest known remains of mankind near Addis Ababa. The bones are 160,000 years old.
As to questions of slavery etc.
Europe has much to apologise for in Africa. But remember the Arabs from the north were taking slaves (from the slave market in Zaria for instance) long before the Europeans arrived. And Africans were selling the slaves! As they sold also to the Portuegese and other Europeans who came later to the south. So I think we can say there were many to share blame for slavery. The bigger damage the Europeans did was to draw countries on the map of Africa that bore no relationship to the traditional or tribal layout of the continent. This has caused trouble ever since in civil wars and unrest in many of these "countries" ever since.
But as several correspondents to this debate have pointed out it is essential that Africans look at their problems in the continent with open eyes. It is not correct or useful to blame Europe or the white man or the World Bank for all of Africas problems. Most of Africa's troubles today are the result of greed and corruption in many of the ruling classes and these problems will not be solved by blaming others for them. The next generations in Nigeria have a heavy task ahead of them if Nigeria is to realise its potential.
We have so far agreed with Hamilton Johnston in part. The Negro has no "race fellowship"; he has no sympathy 4 other Negroes. What remain now are 4 us 2 see whether he?s "docile", mentally deficient and a "slave" to other races. Of course, of these, there are strong arguments 4, if recorded history is anything to go by. The Negro of today also can be said to have qualified 4 all d above definitions. Yes, at least when judged by the disposition of his leaders and the fact that wherever u see Negro at home or in the Diaspora u will find that even in white collar job he is only a technical staff: Engineer, Medical Doctor, Computer System Analyst or a Lawyer. "There are of course (few) exceptions" but you rarely see him achieving much in the art of management. In short, the role of a Negro in this modern world remains that of a slave who doesn't own but earns. It is unfortunate.
I am not pretty sure as to whether I am "ever provocative". I only feel I am saddled with the responsibility of bringing to notice ? to my generation of African youths - how they are being looked at in this modern world in spite of its claim of being a global village where all human beings are seen to be "equal". I also try to talk about the unspeakable crime committed by some races against the Negro race over the centuries. Those races who have taken advantage of the "mental and physical character" of the Negro to inflict immeasurable injuries on him; those who have used suggestive interpretation of the existence of man as the organic part of this universe under the cloak of rationality in forged scientific mask to perpetrate all sorts of assault on the Negro race. It should be clear here that it is not the races we do not like, but the ideas they have espoused and the intellectual treason they have committed against humanity under the false scientific legitimacy they and their governments knowingly accorded the theory of evolution.
In 1904, an evolutionist American researcher: Samuel Verner caught one Black African in Central Africa and caged him like animal to be transported to USA where his colleagues, evolutionary scientists, displayed him in a cage with various species of monkeys at the St. Louis World Fair and exhibited him as "the nearest link to man" not even "missing link". After some years they took him to Bronx Zoo in New York and displayed him there with other chimpanzees. The book: Ota Benga, The Pigmy in the Zoo, by Phillps Verner Bradford carries the details. It should be noted here that it was Charles Darwin himself who first harboured the notion that the Negro is the "missing link" or even "nearest link to man" (see his Origin of Species). My problem with the modern scholars and the leaders of the world today, is how they continued to believe in this notion of evolution to have even created a virus in the confines of their so-called corporate laboratories to eliminate a good percentage of the Black race. So they financed the production of the HIV; so they planted it somewhere in Central Africa again. It is unfortunate.
Yes, among the races that ruled the world or had chance to preside over the destiny of mankind was the Arab race. They too in their literature have painted the Negro adding the blackness of his skin to produce a human being of a very ignoble ancestry and unworthy status. But the bulk of Islamic literature, which had profound influence on the disposition of imperial Arabia, was in constant fortification of Blackman from the attack of the Arabic literature. That was why the slave trade of the Arab in Africa was by far much healthier than the one by the imperial Aryan. Arabians treated black Africa with courtesy and maximum chivalry as directed by their code of conduct. This code of conduct always tells them about the virtues that accompany the act of freeing slaves. It certainly did not tell them to use melted iron on the skin of "the nearest link to man" for easier identification.
It really looks one kind. When you ask every Jewish young man of not more than 16 yrs old about the number of the lives of the Jews lost in the holocaust he will quickly pick to tell u agonizingly: "SIX MILLIONS!!!!!!" And he may even proceed to tell you the details about how they are faring in international courts in an attempt to get compensation. Thanks to the Jewish lobby. The Black African cannot remember the lost he has recorded talk less of taking the matter to any international court. Maybe he has "a short memory for sorrows and cruelties".
My fear is the Negro does not know what future has in store for him now. With the laboratory creation of AIDS virus, Black Africa is faced with another hurricane of insurmountable momentum. The norm has always been for the race that is conferred with the leadership of the world to engage in the service of the common good of mankind. Though the empire of the Aryan race have excelled in creativeness and invention; have crushed the monsters of poverty; have conquered outer spaces and liberalised the educational institutions. It has truly gone ahead to compress its achievements with not only the compartmentalisation of Africa but also the false legitimacy it accorded the Theory of Evolution. It is indeed one thing that history will find too difficult to forgive.
Waziri - There is no point in throwing about outdated scientific theories that are not taken seriously by anyone in this day and age. We used to believe the world was flat. But that was centuries ago. Now we know better. Darwin's theories are nearly two hundred years old and selecting bits and pieces of Darwinism and other opinions now long out of date doesn't make for progress. And why argue about whether the white man or the Arabs were better to black people? There is plenty of evidence of both groups being bad to black people and plenty of evidence of both white people and Arab people being very good friends to black people. As I said before there are good people and bad people in every race and most of us are somewhere in between. And racism runs both ways! I was deeply conscious of the debt that my people owed to Africa - which is part of the reason I came to Kano as a teacher. It is easy to dwell on wrongs of the past but putting the future right is the important thing. This is why I have enjoyed Kano Online. Many who contribute to Kano Online can see very clearly that if Nigeria and Africa is to go ahead it is no use blaming the whites or the US or any other people for all the problems. That kind of thinking is a very convenient cover for some of the corrupt elements who are stealing Africa's future every day and who are doing to their own people worse than the colonisers ever did. Nigeria has been independent for nearly forty years. Any mistakes it makes now are its own mistakes. Better to try to deal properly with them than to waste time pointing fingers back into history.
Sai angima
QuoteWaziri - There is no point in throwing about outdated scientific theories that are not taken seriously by anyone in this day and age. We used to believe the world was flat. But that was centuries ago. Now we know better. Darwin's theories are nearly two hundred years old and selecting bits and pieces of Darwinism and other opinions now long out of date doesn't make for progress. And why argue about whether the white man or the Arabs were better to black people? There is plenty of evidence of both groups being bad to black people and plenty of evidence of both white people and Arab people being very good friends to black people. As I said before there are good people and bad people in every race and most of us are somewhere in between. And racism runs both ways! ?I was deeply conscious of the debt that my people owed to Africa - which is part of the reason I came to Kano as a teacher. It is easy to dwell on wrongs of the past ?but putting the future right is the important thing. This is why I have enjoyed Kano Online. Many who contribute to Kano Online can see very clearly that if Nigeria and Africa is to go ahead it is no use blaming the whites or the US or any other people for all the problems. That kind of thinking is a very convenient cover for some of the corrupt elements who are stealing Africa's future every day and who are doing to their own people worse than the colonisers ever did. Nigeria has been independent for nearly forty years. Any mistakes it makes now are its own mistakes. Better to try to deal properly with them than to waste time pointing fingers back into history.
Sai angima
Hear, hear, everyone! These are points I have repeated on this forum back when I had enough time to do so. For too many of us, castigation of the 'Western' bogeyman and its omnipresent henchman, the media - is a reflex response to almost all Nigerian, African or Muslim woes - be it the Zimbabwean crisis, Nigeria's continuous intl. embarassment like last year's Miss World riots, or the 9-11 saga. And the opportunity for proper self-analysis and correction is lost. Waziri if u remember, I asked y u posted Sir Johnson's opinions. It's funny that we should lose sleep over racism, when the devil within - tribalism - is alive and well in Nigeria. That fact and others would seem enough to prove Sir Johnson's point that Negros lack sympathy towards each other. So if we are so concerned, y don't we prove them wrong by putting our house in order? 'A house divided cannot stand' (a Bible verse ;)) let alone withstand external forces; simple logic.
QuoteAnd why argue about whether the white man or the Arabs were better to black people?
Hahahaha ;D. For very obvious reasons, the vintage kano-online opinion is that the arabs were better friends to the africans that the whites. It is a point that has to be made, no matter how off-topic it is, lol ;D.
Quote
Hahahaha ?;D. For very obvious reasons, the vintage kano-online opinion is that the arabs were better friends to the africans that the whites. It is a point that has to be made, no matter how off-topic it is, lol ?;D.
SAYS WHO.......Bro you have got it totally wrong. That opinion came from only one person. I for a fact didt think or perceived it that way. Who said or who personally taut that we kanawa treat or their behaviour towards arabs are super superior. Maybe you misjudged them wrongly.
And for this longgggggggg responses. All I know is no one will cme to my face and say what Waziri wrote. As ma blad ummita said.......THAT IS A THING OF A PAST!!!!!!!!!!!. WUNA GET TIME. WAZIRI IT TOOK ME EXCATLY 1HR 25MINS TO FINISH READING ALL THIS UP :-/ As if I ever did ::) But I do agree with you Ibro, all true
1/2 s_y,
Yes u may be right about, but this is certainly not the first time i've seen Waziri's arab-white comparison here. About long posts, 1hour 25 mins? haba, lol.
Interesting one, Mr David, I found reason to speak about the Arabians because you brought in their version of the slave trade in your uncalled for defence of the Europeans:
Quote
Europe has much to apologise for in Africa. But remember the Arabs from the north were taking slaves (from the slave market in Zaria for instance) long before the Europeans arrived.
It was then I felt we have to compare and see, for that may help us in deciding where to start in our demand for compensation. I think the argument is not the slave trade only, but the injuries inflicted on the slaves (which were at many times stolen not bought). And on that, the Arabs will pay less than the Europeans, for in Arabia the son of a slave woman is a legal son not a slave, and slaves are to be legally bought or come from prisoners of war not stolen from the population of the "resistant-to-ailment" species of Africa. Those who read the book, The Roots by Alex Haley or watched the movie will see the point clearly.
I just don't know, but I think I deserve some fair treatment. When I resurrected the monster of colonialism, I did not give it a single bed to recline upon, NO, but a double decker where the Negro who helped and is still helping the white man to perpetrate his crime by his seemingly "natural" disposition will lie on one side and the white man who did and is still doing the crime will lie on the other side. I also made it clear that we blame the whiteman only for using his God-given oportunity to rule the world in commiting intelectual crimes against humanity instead of helping the Negro, the most "backward" race to attain a level close to that of "humanbeings".So he went ahead and gave legitimacy to a false theory that justifies the "masacre" of innocent souls.
It is here to note that the documented activities of those evolutionary scientist which I cited, which you dismissed as obsolate where never agreed upon by all scientists even at the time they were espoused. Even before then there where arguments by ppl like Louis Pasteur, that French scientist which were in direct opposition to evolution theory. But for some reasons the west chose to sanction that of the evolutionists, it simply agreed with the conspiracy and abandoned the science. That is why even today after the complete collapse of the evolution theory their are still scientists who believe in it, they are famous and are still alive one of them is the famous geneticists from Harvard University, Richard Lewonton, the author of the Demon-haunted world, 1997 and paleontologists like Stephen a Gould the author of the Ever Since Darwin, 1996, and score of others. There are also other emininent scholars in the Ku Klux Klan and the Neo-Nazi movements who still support that theory. Not to talk of those in the Eugenics societies across europe and America.
Add to the above, theory of evolution and Darwinism has been given legitimacy by the Europeans to the extent that it left the areas of biology to the areas of social sciences; it formed the bedrock of many social theorems that are till today being used. It wouldn't be wrong to believe that the concept of Nationalism as a philosophy that should guide nations and nation states emerged from Darwinism. This can inevitably move us in to the conclusion that the world of today is a product of Darwinists' materialist's philosophy and is being run thus. So Mr David, can you see how some ppl have succeeded in keeping this world flat in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the fact of contrary?
As the saying goes: He who forgets history is deemed to repeat it.
Certainly, in times to come, Darwin will be resurrected, after all he did not even die, and his was not science but 'intellectual' conspiracy. Our worry is we are not in a better position today to gauge the amount of influence the updated version of the book of the conspiracy will exert. What is that thing the revised book of the conspiracy will say about the Negro? Since the author when "resurrected" will see them already being lynched by laboratory-created viruses like HIV even though the HIV was drawn from the last chapter of the older version of the book of the conspiracy. Yes, we can conclude thus, even if we are not sure of the belief of the vehicle of the HIV: Dr Michael A. Gallo, he too may be an evolutionist.
Finally, Mr David, I really have to admit the fact that I learn from your comments. Maybe that is why I feel compelled to respond whenever you comment. I also appreciate your role here as a teacher. But I also think it natural for different people to disagree. As such, I believe, we only disagree here to find another platform tomorrow where we will agree. This will certainly come to pass if we continued to reflect on situations and circumstances with a higher objective, for it is in nobler motives we make resentment turn into mirth.
Waziri
In the best tradition of intellectual debate I will stay cool. It is difficult however when you suggest that Africa has been deliberately infected by "whites" with HIV Aids. The HIV virus has been traced back to 1959 in California. Several theories are put forward as to how it came about. It appears to have crossed the species barrier - i.e. it is an animal disease which has mutated into a killer disease in human beings (as has syphilis). I have heard that scientists who had found out that some of the great ape species were immune to malaria were trying to make a anti-malaria serum out of blood drawn from great apes (chimps, I think) and injected this serum into volunteers in Los Angeles. Unfortunately they also injected an unnoticed virus (which was giving the apes a mild fever only) and this crashed through the immune systems of the human volunteers and became what we know as HIV. This is one theory.
What is certain is that over the next 40 years Aids has spread throughout the world. It has killed hundreds of thousands of Europeans and Americans, including very many prominent people. It effect in Europe and America has been lessened by the vast sums of money being spent in research and medicine which controls the HIV virus. AIDS presently threatens 25million people in Africa. The tragedy is the lack of resources in medicine across most of Africa which means that most who become infected do not get the medicine they need.
Aids is spread mainly by promiscuous sexual activity. A husband and wife who stay together and do not "stray" to other sexual partners cannot get AIDS. In Western society those most at risk from AIDS have been prostitutes,active homosexual men and people (particularly young people) who do not adhere to traditional moral values about sex. In the West a huge sexual education programme is being mounted to encourage people into safe and clean sexual practice. But it has to be firmly stated that no person is responsible for spreading AIDS except the person whose careless behaviour gives himself the infection or gives the infection to an innocent victim. The "white people" have no reason to want to give AIDS to Africa, so please Waziri, don't make such dangerous accusations. It weakens the rest of your debate.
Mr David, I am really happy, now that you picked the motive behind my persistent "noise": Intellectual debate.
I will be very glad if you can spare sometime and read the following "understanding" I gave to AIDS in my disagreement with Dr Hussain Yahya some time last year.Though the subject of the disagreement was about the efficacy of using CONDOMS, something about AIDS and its origin was discussed there. I strongly believe that an intervention like that of yours will certainly help clarify issues.Like I said earlier in this debate: "it is opinion", ofcourse a cogent one, I want to form about everything. I only think AIDS has to do with that biological warfare stuff, read me pls:
http://www.amanaonline.com/Articles/art_216.htm
Waziri
Have read your interesting paper. The consensus seems to be that AIDS is laboratory born in US whether by accident or intention.It is of course possible that AIDs was developed by US as a biological weapon. If that was the case it will have been done to provide a weapon against the Soviets or China which American governments and military saw as huge threats to the US. I cannot accept in any way that AIDS might have been devised to damage black people. Black people worldwide and African states present no serious threat to anyone so what would be the point?
I repeat that Africa's biggest challenge is to provide stable, democratic, uncorrupt governments to allow social progress for Africa's people (which will of course include providing decent public medical provision to combat scourges like AIDS).
Racism has always been there wether its an article written a hundred years ago or not. I have witnessed it talkless of some white man trying to show me that a 100yrs back.
winston Churchill said
"these colored people can achieve nothing because they have a nil IQ level."
well it should amaze this winston guy that websites were designed and made by a black man from NIGERIA.
and then you see in the US more and more African americans are accepting Islam..... Why?
kai infact its so hard for me to write on this topic without relating things to Islam that i would just stop writing immediately. Kar in jawo wa kai na masifa daga matan da suke duniyar gizon nan.
I think its best that lionger sheds some light on this stuff, since he would be in the best position to tell us about his masters
Okay, Mr David, that maybe the sole intention, to attack the russians or the chinese, apparently not the Black Africans as you suggested. But why is that it is the Black Africa that is more vulnerable to it? And why is it that the first cases of Aids were recorded first in Black Africa? May be the ethnic weapon was truly meant to Attack the Chinese and the Russians. But Black Africa was used first as a testing ground.
Add to that also I think the sole intention was to curb the population of the world in order to make it remain easily managed, as explicitly stated in the paper : "...These scholars harbour the belief that HIV is a biological warfare agent created by the biological warfare wing of the United States Army. It serves as an ethnic weapon designed in a laboratory to infect and kill the non-white people in order to maintain WESTERN SUPREMACY ACCROSS THE GLOBE."
Since this is the goal, then they have no reason to take it to China or Russia first, they believed they had better taken it to Black Africa where the "nearest link to man". Remember the issue is that of world-population-control and thefore the least important in the hierachy of MAN is the most appropriate one to be eliminated.
Mr David I quite agree with you that Black Africa has its internal problems but the question is why is it that some ppl somewhere must maintain a tradition of adding to the problems of Black Africa instead of helping Black Africa to solve them? As I said earlier:
"The norm has always been for the race that is conferred with the leadership of the world to engage in the service of the common good of mankind."
soon we'll have the chinese claiming SARS was an invention of bush
Quote? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
I think its best that lionger sheds some light on this stuff, since he would be in the best position to tell us about his masters
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
lol u don come again with ya own wahala. Why can't u just make a useful contribution instead of yeye misyarning?
As for the AIDS argument, well I once again agree with Mr. Hill. Waziri, do you really believe those HIV conspiracy theories?
ppl like Waziri and myself will continue to believe the conspiracy theory until when proved otherwise.
I have hesitated to reply to the remark by "guest" because there is nothing that can be said to convince someone who believes something strongly even though there is no proof and no evidence to support their belief. I have a dislike of USA but even I cannot believe that the USA developed AIDS to kill black people.For what reason would they do so? Perhaps Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice can explain.
Believing insulting,demeaning or dangerous theories without proof is exactly what racists do. There are still plenty of racists in the US and Europe but you don't deal with the issue by proposing really silly conspiracy theories (which just gives the racists encouragement).
I have been following the raging debate on the origin of AIDS etc and although it has been interesting and also educative I cannot see the point of its continuation. As a matter of fact I don share Waziri's view and I think he and others on his side are short of becoming racists by accusing every whiteman and white state of plans against blacks or africa. I dont see what america, UK or Europe will gain by invening AIDS and sending it to Africa or to the blackman and like Mr. David said what about people like Condelezza and Powell.
If the west designed AIDS to control population why did they then bring it here it is best place will be in China or India. And come what do they stand to gain from it anyway, is not like we have brains that have developed Nuclear Weapons or we have visionary leaders that can change our situation or we are richer. This is the poorest continent in the world with no immediate future or ambition. A continent with more than 50% of their people living below the poverty line. If they just allow us with our poverty and selfish politicians is enough punishment.
I believe AIDS and the HIV virus were a creation of the Almighty God to punish fornicators and adulterers. That's why they cannot create a vaccine, the best vaccine is ABSCENSION and STAYING FAITHFULLY TO OUR PARTNERS.
what a perfet discription of his own self
I am back Mr Hill, Errr... I now really have gone through Waziri's arguments.... May be they have reasons to believe whiteman is that bad. After all when did he really change to be good again? This HIV thing... here him:
"Where AIDS Began
One of the recent popular theories about the Origin of AIDS is what BBC English service would say on the 11th September 2000, at about 14:43 GMT: “….Scientists are generally agreed that Aids jumped the species barrier from chimpanzees to humans. Chimpanzees host a virus called SIV which is regarded as being similar to HIV.” But in similar breath they continued to say: “However, scientists are divided on how this might have happened. They have rejected one theory that the virus jumped from chimpanzees to humans as a result of a botched experiment in the 1950s.”
Another popular and of course more plausible theory is the one that suggests that HIV virus is man made. Far back in 1986, the Sunday Express Newspaper carried an article titled “AIDS Made in Lab Shocks” in which Dr. John Seal and Prof. Jacob Seagall , the retired director of The Institute of Biology at Berlin University both concluded that the AIDS virus was man made. This opinion has been expressed more recently by well known medical researchers like Dr. Alan Cantwell jr. M.D. (the author of AIDS & The Doctors of Death, and Queer Blood both published by Aries Press, Los Angeles, CA 90029, USA). Also Dr. Boyd Ed Graves J.D. of The Zygote Media, KS 67410-0332, USA( Who went to the extent of filing a court case against American government; his own country, in the year 1999) and Dr. Gary Glum, the author of the highly acclaimed book about the subject: Full Disclosure. And many other medical professionals, scholars of Virology, Epidemiology, Immunology and Genetic engineering; who testified to the veracity of the claim.
These scholars harbour the belief that HIV is a biological warfare agent created by the biological warfare wing of the United States Army. It serves as an ethnic weapon designed in a laboratory to infect and kill the non-white people in order to maintain western supremacy across the globe. The evidence of this is overwhelming. According to Waves Forest, in the year 1969, the United States’ Defence Department’s Biological Warfare division requested funds (that were later approved) to develop through gene-splicing a new disease that would both resist and break down a victim’s immune system. In the words of J. Paxman and R. Harris: “ within the next 5 to 10 years it would probably be possible to make a new infective micro-organism which could differ in certain important respects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious diseases.” (A Higher Form of Killing: The Secret Story of Chemical and Biological Warfare, Page 266, Hill and Wang Publication).
On October 18, 1971, President Richard Nixon announced that some of the army’s biological warfare laboratories would be converted in connection to National Cancer Institute to research, in its Special Cancer Virus Program on the cause, prevention and treatment of cancer disease. Under this project many different animals (monkeys, chimpanzees, mice and cats) where collected from various parts across this planet.
Subsequently, in the year 1972 World Health Organization as if supporting the intentions of the American military, published a similar proposal: “ An attempt should be made to ascertain whether viruses can in fact exert selective effects on immune function, e.g., by… affecting T cell function as opposed to B cell function. The possibility should also be looked into that the immune response to the virus itself may be impaired if the infecting virus damages more or less selectively the cells responding to the viral antigens.”(Bulletin of the W.H.O., vol. 47, p 257-274.) This is an active and laboratory description of AIDS.
The American Special Virus Cancer Program (SVCP) ended in 1977; without any concluding report tendered to the public. And it was not until later in 1981 that Dr. Robert Gallo, the project officer of the primate study in SVCP project, announced the existence of the deadly virus which was later named HIV. Therefore if HIV virus truly jumped species (as the BBC report claimed) or was made to jump species from chimpanzees to humans, then it was as a result of SVCP.
The First Cases of AIDS
Funnily enough the first cases of AIDS infections in Africa coincided exactly with the locations of the W.H.O. smallpox vaccination program in the 1970s. The prestigious London Times, May 11th 1987 published an article titled “Small Pox Vaccine Triggered AIDS.” In the article strong evidence was drawn between the smallpox vaccines program administered and carried out by the World Health Organization on about 60-70 millions people in different central African countries and the incidence of AIDS infection in those regions. One thing that is soul striking about AIDS is its ethno-selective tendencies. Even after AIDS had spread in places like the United States, where the black there seldom come to Africa, the rate of AIDS infections among the blacks and Native Americans is twice as high compared to the white Americans, with death coming more swiftly. It is believed that more than 80% of the children with AIDS and 90% infants born with it are among these minorities (Paxman and Harris). It will be more awful when we remember what the white minority South African President, P. W. Botha announced on August 18, 1985:
“...Our Combat Unity is now training special White girls in the use of slow poisoning drugs. Ours is not a war we can use the atomic bomb to destroy the Blacks, so we must use our intelligence to affect this. The person-to-person encounter can be very effective. As the records show that the Black man is dying to go to bed with the White woman, here is our unique opportunity...We have received a new supply of prostitutes from Europe and America...”
Also Dr. Robert Gallo, the AIDS doctor himself, when asked about the future of AIDS in America in an interview with David Blank Playboy (A New York Magazine) reporter, in the year 1987. He answered: “AIDS will never become an overwhelming danger to the public.” When asked about its rapid spread in Africa, he said it is because there is “… more promiscuity or greater incidence of venereal diseases”
It was indeed this attitude of the white Euro-American leaders and the selective interpretation of AIDS and HIV virus by some white scientists that led some bona-fide Americans to cry:
"We have all of the information we need to prove our case against the United States. It is our nation state who is guilty of the highest crime. We have found the well-spring of the genesis of AIDS. It is our nation state, it is US."
Dr. Boyd Ed Graves J.D. (World War AIDS, 20:12:2000) "
I am really confused.
lallai guest you ought to be really confused.
u r really loaded ...huh where did u get this stuff?
now i'm getting confused also..
We all know AIDS is a man made disease - whether by accident or intention. We know it jumped the species barrier - whether by accident or intention. It is indeed possible it is the result of experiments to make biological weapons. USA, USSR, China, UK, France - even Saddam Hussein - were experimenting in biological weapons. I cannot see, however, what threat the black people are to the white people in this world so I can see no reason for the white people (aka USA) going to the trouble of inventing a disease to kill black people - especially as the disease is pretty good at killing white people as well and has, to date, killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and Europeans, the majority of whom have been homo-sexual. The only reasons the disease has slowed down in US and Europe are safer sexual practices and the availability of very expensive medicines which do not cure but control the HIV symptoms. I wouldn't believe a word Mr Botha said about anything. Like most racists he was nuts.
Well David has said it all, OF WHAT THREAT IS BLACK MAN TO WHITES? Brothers and sisters I am a black man and African, I have never been in Europe or anywhere sef apart from Middle East but honestly The Black Race is the most backward in the world apart from musicians and sport stars what else do we have? I am sorry to say this argument is not of any benefit to the blackrace. Why are we wasting time on the origin of AIDS and why or how it was created? Why dont us concentrate on finding the cure scientifically or anyother wise and how to control the scrouge instead of tracing the ancestry of the disease and who its creator is, of course God created AIDS like everything.
Please let's profer solutions instead of turning this forum to a race war zone. Remeber the blackman can be a racist too. And please lets not say what we cannot prove.
A lot of good sense from "guest". There will always be racists and bigots and people who hate. But most of us are better at loving each other. Africa and Nigeria need to go forward. There is no need for Africa to be so backward. It is full of good people, people prepared to work and plenty of natural resources. It needs proper democracy, honest leaders and good government. Only the people of Africa can provide the power to make these things happen. It will not be easy. In reality much of Europe only got those things about 250 years ago. Before then there was lots of rich murdering noblity, greedy despotic kings, poor peasants and no government for the benefit of the people. Social reformers fought long and hard to make Europe democratic. The job is just beginning in Africa.
Yes, ofcourse Mr Hill, Waziri has never disagreed with you on that note but what really makes me think his arguments cannot be dismissed just like that is this world polulation control stuff. And also if magazine like prestigious London Times will carry an article that suggest so, then Africa has to learn to be careful.
Quote
The First Cases of AIDS
Funnily enough the first cases of AIDS infections in Africa coincided exactly with the locations of the W.H.O. smallpox vaccination program in the 1970s. The prestigious London Times, May 11th 1987 published an article titled “Small Pox Vaccine Triggered AIDS.” In the article strong evidence was drawn between the smallpox vaccines program administered and carried out by the World Health Organization on about 60-70 millions people in different central African countries and the incidence of AIDS infection in those regions. One thing that is soul striking about AIDS is its ethno-selective tendencies. Even after AIDS had spread in places like the United States, where the black there seldom come to Africa, the rate of AIDS infections among the blacks and Native Americans is twice as high compared to the white Americans, with death coming more swiftly. It is believed that more than 80% of the children with AIDS and 90% infants born with it are among these minorities (Paxman and Harris). It will be more awful when we remember what the white minority South African President, P. W. Botha announced on August 18, 1985:
“...Our Combat Unity is now training special White girls in the use of slow poisoning drugs. Ours is not a war we can use the atomic bomb to destroy the Blacks, so we must use our intelligence to affect this. The person-to-person encounter can be very effective. As the records show that the Black man is dying to go to bed with the White woman, here is our unique opportunity...We have received a new supply of prostitutes from Europe and America...”
Also Dr. Robert Gallo, the AIDS doctor himself, when asked about the future of AIDS in America in an interview with David Blank Playboy (A New York Magazine) reporter, in the year 1987. He answered: “AIDS will never become an overwhelming danger to the public.” When asked about its rapid spread in Africa, he said it is because there is “… more promiscuity or greater incidence of venereal diseases”
It was indeed this attitude of the white Euro-American leaders and the selective interpretation of AIDS and HIV virus by some white scientists that led some bona-fide Americans to cry:
"We have all of the information we need to prove our case against the United States. It is our nation state who is guilty of the highest crime. We have found the well-spring of the genesis of AIDS. It is our nation state, it is US."
Dr. Boyd Ed Graves J.D. (World War AIDS, 20:12:2000) "
Whatever the case maybe, this discussion will serve as an eye opener to other young mind, we will watchful since we are not as learned as Waziri is and we have never been to Europe before.
Gogannaka you can read that paper Waziri gave Mr Hill you can find reason too to keep changing position as I am doing.
Yes, ofcourse Mr Hill, Waziri has never disagreed with you on that note but what really makes me think his arguments cannot be dismissed just like that is this world polulation control stuff. And also if magazines like prestigious London Times will carry an article that suggest so, then Africa has to learn to be careful.
Quote
The First Cases of AIDS
Funnily enough the first cases of AIDS infections in Africa coincided exactly with the locations of the W.H.O. smallpox vaccination program in the 1970s. The prestigious London Times, May 11th 1987 published an article titled “Small Pox Vaccine Triggered AIDS.” In the article strong evidence was drawn between the smallpox vaccines program administered and carried out by the World Health Organization on about 60-70 millions people in different central African countries and the incidence of AIDS infection in those regions. One thing that is soul striking about AIDS is its ethno-selective tendencies. Even after AIDS had spread in places like the United States, where the black there seldom come to Africa, the rate of AIDS infections among the blacks and Native Americans is twice as high compared to the white Americans, with death coming more swiftly. It is believed that more than 80% of the children with AIDS and 90% infants born with it are among these minorities (Paxman and Harris). It will be more awful when we remember what the white minority South African President, P. W. Botha announced on August 18, 1985:
“...Our Combat Unity is now training special White girls in the use of slow poisoning drugs. Ours is not a war we can use the atomic bomb to destroy the Blacks, so we must use our intelligence to affect this. The person-to-person encounter can be very effective. As the records show that the Black man is dying to go to bed with the White woman, here is our unique opportunity...We have received a new supply of prostitutes from Europe and America...”
Also Dr. Robert Gallo, the AIDS doctor himself, when asked about the future of AIDS in America in an interview with David Blank Playboy (A New York Magazine) reporter, in the year 1987. He answered: “AIDS will never become an overwhelming danger to the public.” When asked about its rapid spread in Africa, he said it is because there is “… more promiscuity or greater incidence of venereal diseases”
It was indeed this attitude of the white Euro-American leaders and the selective interpretation of AIDS and HIV virus by some white scientists that led some bona-fide Americans to cry:
"We have all of the information we need to prove our case against the United States. It is our nation state who is guilty of the highest crime. We have found the well-spring of the genesis of AIDS. It is our nation state, it is US."
Dr. Boyd Ed Graves J.D. (World War AIDS, 20:12:2000) "
Whatever the case maybe, this discussion will serve as an eye opener to other young minds, we will be watchful since we are not as learned as Waziri is and we have never been to Europe before.
Gogannaka you can read that paper Waziri gave Mr Hill you can find reason too to keep changing position as I am doing.
QuoteI have hesitated to reply to the remark by "guest" because there is nothing that can be said to convince someone who believes something strongly even though there is no proof and no evidence to support their belief. I have a dislike of USA but even I cannot believe that the USA developed AIDS to kill black people.For what reason would they do so? Perhaps Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice can explain.
Believing insulting,demeaning or dangerous theories without proof is exactly what racists do. There are still plenty of racists in the US and Europe but you don't deal with the issue by proposing really silly conspiracy theories (which just gives the racists encouragement).
I really wonder why Mr David has gone too emotional on this. We have not insulted anybody here and our intention has never been to insult anybody but to decipher d problems of d world with the view of making those resposible 4 its misery to eye exactly at the springboard of such problems.
The fact the Nigeria has problems does not exclude us from discussing problems of the world, and issues like this I believe were not moved or started by myself. Till this day Samuel P. Hutington is still writing about civilisations, and there is nothing bad that he did not say about Black Africa in the name of objectivity. I think the dicipline in scholarship is: "Truth is not a respecter of sensibilities".
Concerning proofs and theories I think I can not claim any expertise 4 now.
The truth in courts of law is facts are not synonymous to opinions, so expert opinions do not matter most.
But yet when America chose to attack Afghanistan, it was expert opinion she used not FACTS. She is yet, till today to show us facts of the involvement of Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda network not to talk of Afghanistan peasants in the famous September 11 attack.
And if we are down with the current, as per news , we must have heard by now how Britain and US used forged facts to justify their recent war in Iraq.
Going by all these Mr David, why do you think I should be condemned when I use expert opinion to conclude that whitemen created HIV virus?
After all, there is this plan about world-population -control and they know that if they used HIV to attack Chinese, Chinese have the wisdom and the technical know-how to retaliate appropriately.
Logic says that they can only survive if they plant it somewhere in Africa.
Sincery speaking, Mr David I did not mean to trouble your calm. I only thought you would be able to discuss the topic with maximum indifference. By God had I known it would turn out to be insult, I would'nt have pursuied it this far. But all the same, I am heartily sorry for all inconviniences caused.
So Long
Waziri
I am
Waziri I don't get it. What is so emotional in Mr. Hill's response? I'm not sure you have answered his question: for what purpose? Population control? Lol if world population is such a problem, the logical place to start would be the Far East and the Indian subcontinent, not Africa. Africa's problem is not quite population control, contrary to popular belief; but it the great lack of useful human resources. Why?
I think some of us are taking this anti-american sentiment way too far. We'd much rather believe that the 9-11 saga is a big hoax created by America and Israel as an excuse to attack every Arab/Muslim country, instead of the the idea that 19 Saudis did the job with backing from Al quaeda and Osama bin laden. We'd rather ignore the Taliban's notoriety in shielding Osama bin laden, or Saddam's many sins, all because 'American muscle' has been exerted on them. And now we want to pin the AIDS disaster in Africa on the white man. Come on, what has happened to our objectivity? Waziri, no you shouldn't be condemned, but then, neither should Sir Hamilton. His ideas were considered intellectual in his time( and he sure had proof), but today we all know it's true value. Replying one wack OUTDATED theory with an equally wack theory of our own does not make us any better. Obviously anyone can talk rubbish and ignorance in the name of intellectual debate.
There's no benefit in wasting time and energy trying to prove that the white man started AIDS to finish us off. What do we want, a present? Pity? That is not going to help, howeer, this will!
http://www.kanoonline.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=chit-chat;action=display;num=1039027740
lionger,
Actually I have never seen reason to respond to your comments bacause they seem to be imformed by a pre-conceived notion.
I can remember when u complained about the length of my posts which showed that you found it difficult to spare time and readm, but yet proceeded to take position on the discourse. Now if you did not read my comments how comes u concluded I was wrong?? Unless if ur motive was to make mischief.
Okay, no, u read them inspite of their length. But then why complain at all of their length since even if I typed one million words you would be able to spare time to read them?? Unless if ur intention was just to make mischief. ?
lionger, the above comments by u also is of the same colour with earlier ones. I comment only, because I want draw ur attention to the essentials of intellectual debates: Try to be objective, if you cannot, then try to pretend you are. If u cannot then u will never ever earn response from ppl like my humble self .
For a purpose of clarification: Everyone who is current on the affairs of this our world knows that the POWERS have been complaining about world population since late sixties. Here these words: They did not say it is the problem of Africa, but the problem of the world and needed to be controlled.
And any body who follows this discourse carefully and OBJECTIVELY knows that we have made our points with expert opinions. This is another understanding of an expert about this world population stuff ?if u r really interested in the truth of the claim:
http://www.mtrustonline.com/dailytrust/world5072003.htm
Another thing again, I think u r doing injustice to many including ur self if u say the theories we are making reference to are outdated. Read our "lengthy" posts again and see how we have sited many other modern scholars who believe in these theories.
Lionger, u don't read us u only make ur conclusions on your own prejudices. If u want discuss 9/11 or our own identity i.e Islam and solidarity with Arabs then u can pursue that in another thread. Then we can come around and speak to you in the kind of language u ?can understand. But make sense please if u want deserve response from us.
Concerning AIDS awareness, know that it is not the problem of kanoonliners here. We have long passed that stage, for me it was an item of discouse to me only in the last five years. Now our interst is the springboard of the virus. On that also we deal with reasons for our suspicions of the white-man and if you cannot bring down our reasons then u have no reasons to tell us what to discuss.
I am sure Lionger can look after himself in this debate so I will make no comment about Waziri's remarks to him.
I would never make a remark like talking about "the black man" as if all black people were the same like a herd of something so Waziri do me the favour of not talking about "the white man" as if we are all P W Botha or Adolf Hitler or all behave the same way.
Every individual one of us on this earth is a different person, with different behaviour, different opinions and different likes and dislikes. Some are even very wicked - white, black, yellow or whatever - but most of us are OKAY in an imperfect sort of way and some people are very, very good indeed.
This is my last word on this topic which has become predictable and boring.
All I have to say on the matter is that racism exists everywhere, wether it be white man to black man or vice versa. Every race has reason to believe they are superior, be it white man who invented the telephone or black people who invented reggae which is one of the longest running types of music in the history of music.(See Giddens 4th Edition Sociology) If you have noticed as well there are more influencial black musicians and atheletes than there probaly is white. We are taught theories, and thats exactly what they are nobody says that we have to believe or agree with them. Most of these theories are hundreds of years old and at the time most people believed them as there was nobody to prove that theory wrong or give them reason to open their mind to other theories, but that would also come down to tradition and values. There are very few people that are still "stuck in their ways" as people grow and change, we evolve all the time. "All human beings are closely related to one another, and at the the same time each human being is unique"(The Guardian 4 March 2000)
"To advance beyond racism one has to advance beyond race"
(The Guardian 4 March 2000)