KanoOnline Online Forum

General => General Board => Topic started by: EMTL on May 29, 2004, 08:58:57 PM

Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: EMTL on May 29, 2004, 08:58:57 PM
Dear Brothers and Sisters

As salamu alaykum

RE: NACOMYO VS OBASANJO

 

One may feel disturbed that almost one year after NACOMYO took Obasanjo to court for his pushing into motion a well organised Christian agenda of marginalising Muslims in his government, some brothers are still asking the basis for this action.

 

However, taking into cognisance the nearly total blackout given to the case by the pro-Christian  media one should not blame the brothers.

 

The fact of the matter is that Obasanjo deliberately refused to appoint any Muslim as Muslim from any of the southern states including Kogi and Kwara. In fact Kwara with more than 85% Muslim population had two Ministers Mrs. Adebayo and Mrs. Adedoyin and both are Christians, 63% of the total number of Ministers are Christians while 37% are Muslims.

 

It was after NACOMYO instituted a case against Obasanjo at the Federal High Court on 15th July 2003 that Christian nominee from Osun State was dropped and replaced by one Engineer Bashir Awotorebo a Muslim from Ile Ife who was just Minister of state for water resources. The man knowing that the Christians are in power has been maintaining a low profile within the Ummah in Abuja.

 

The case again comes up on the 1st of June at the Abuja Federal High Court. However, you can tame a leopard you cannot change the spot on his skin.

 

Obasanjo has not relented in his Muslim cleansing from Government. The tradition now is when he removes a Muslim from a post he automatically replaces him with a Christian and when he removes a Christian another Christian takes over the mantle.

 

A few example will suffice when Nasir el-rufai became a minister, one Alhaji Tijani was recommended to Obasanjo but he picked one Julius Bala as the new Director General Bureau for Public enterprises.

 

When the Comptroller general of custom retired he was replaced by a Christian Gyang Buba.

 

When the managing Director of the Nigerian ports Authority Alhaji Mustapha was removed he was replaced by an apostate  from Islam, Mr. Bayo Sarumi. When the Director General of Federal Inland Revenue was removed he was replaced by a Christian lady.

 

However when Joseph Sanusi of the Central Bank retired,  there were three Muslim contenders Abdul Fatai Kekere Ekun. M/D Habib Bank Ganiyu Ogun of NDIC and Tajudeen Adeola, since they are Muslims Obasanjo went Professor Solunde as Economic Adviser who is not a banker.

 

Solunde himself was replaced by another Christian Professor Orodo. Who would bail the Muslims out of this religious cleansing that is making us an endangered species in political and economic vine yard of Nigeria.

 

Our elders, (sorry our dealers) have capitulated and become government agents looking for contracts to buy new limousines and replace their ageing wives with new damsels.  

 

Allah will definitely come to our rescue and save us from the CAN agenda of reducing us to flotsam and jetsam of the Nigeria society.

Alh. Ishaq Kunle Sanni
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on May 30, 2004, 11:31:34 AM
EMTL

I assume that you are in agreement with what is said in your posting.  Another assumption I am making is that you are an educated person and well travelled (within or ouside nigeria).

You will then agree with me that the points or issues raised are completely nonsence.  Apart from federal character (and I am not even sure) that is covered by the constitution, religious faith is not covered.  So on what basis must there be appointments to cabinet or any other possitions based on faith?  When will it end?  we will then have on sex, creed, colour, youth, disability etc.  Or do you or any one think that other groups are less important or do not have any rights to appointments?

Why have you not discussed the dominance of muslims in previous governments?  Have you tried to just investigate and see what is used to be?  A good word of advise my friend please do just that.  You see you must understand that the silence is not because there are no people who can make noise, it is just that they know what it was like just a few years ago.  Do you realise that since the move to abuja OBJ is the first non muslim person to occupy the state house?  Are you aware that the only religious building in Aso rock before OBJ was a mosque?

If I am from the north or from kano, katsina, zamfara (or any of the predominantly muslim states) and I am appointed to a position what makes me any less a person from those places?  What about the christains from kano, sokoto, zamfara, etc why are they not appointed to positions in their states?  why are they beinmg removed and replaced by muslims?

The current situation (if indeed true) is a case of what goes around comes around, so there is no need to behave like cry babies, instead take responsibility and ask your self how can we make things better for ALL nigerians.  What difference does it make to have an all muslim or all christain cabinet?  Why not just the best person for the job instead of the muslim or christain for the job?  How many muslims have been in very senior positions in the country and what have they done for the nation or even their people?  Instead of serious progress and catching up with rest of the country we are beginning to fall behind in almost all aspects of human endeavour and development in the north, have we not been having muslim leadership?

Please let us discuss like educated people who have the interest of nigerian and contribute in our postings on what or how best we can help our people and develop ourselves!  The suite is just RUBBISH!!!!!
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: lionger on May 30, 2004, 01:26:11 PM
couldn't have said it better, mallamt. I was even prepared to give this post the benefit of the doubt until i came across the inflattering conclusion:

Quote
Allah will definitely come to our rescue and save us from the CAN agenda of reducing us to flotsam and jetsam of the Nigeria society.

the amusing thing is that if u speak to some christians they will tell u Obasanjo is a stooge of the muslim north, whereas most ppl here will say he is a christian/yoruba sympathiser.  Each side believes Uncle Sege is protecting the interests of the other. lol this is the hallmark of a truly incompetent leadership and of a people who are still not ready to learn the lesson of past failures.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: alhaji_aminu on May 31, 2004, 12:16:26 AM
salam
I guess EMTL you're right. However, we must not forget that it is the president's prerogative to appoint whom so ever he finds suitable to implement his agenda in the cabinet level. The Nigeria constitution speaks of federal character in which a 'quota' like system is deviced in apportioning offices with  geo-political fairness. The  fed character did not say offices should be given with religious affiliation taken into account. It is normally done out of pragmatic realisation of Nigerian peculiarities.
having said that, we must not dismiss Nacomyo's complaints. because it is true that almost all yoruba ministers are Christians in obj govt (mind you yorubas are 50-50 muslims-xtian). and Nacomyo must  be commended for taking their grievance to a court of law.
at no time did any regime did this. OBJ should be mindful that he is creating a  precedent that doesn't augur well for the country.
mallamt,  EMTL's assertion, which are by extension the opinions of yoruba muslims, are non "nonsenslical".
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on May 31, 2004, 12:45:58 AM
Instead of pointing the finger at each other Moslem leaders and Christian leaders should be uniting to lead Nigeria out of immoral corruption. It doesn't matter what religion a governor or top politician is. If they are useless they are useless. If they are corrupt they are corrupt. And what religion they are doesn't come into it. But so long as they can hide behind religious differences and point the finger of blame at the other side the can get away with nonsense - as long as the people let them. The ordinary Nigerian citizen will have to learn how to look past a man's religion and be able to judge him on his actions and his honesty.
The religious differences in Nigeriaa have always been used by rogues as a smokescreen to cover up their roguery.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: ajingi on May 31, 2004, 08:14:27 AM
Whe have within us a few cabal of godless, senseless, terorist gansters and fraudsters leaders, who hide under the canopy of religion and ethinicity to pauperise its unsuspecting citizens in order to achieves thier personal agenda.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on May 31, 2004, 10:48:14 AM
I know and apprciate that each individual has a right to his opinion.  I think both ajigini and dave capture the idea and understand the point very well.  It is a pity that the likes of myadudu appear to have problems focusing on the issue rather than chasing shadows.  The point made by myself is that we must not allow the religion a person belongs to becloud our judgement of individuals.  Whether a person is christain, muslim, hindu, pagan etc they are God's creation and we must respect that (except of course if you will want to impply God made a mistake).  Nigerian pecularities are they really pecularities or are they just methods used by the various religious organisations to perpetuate themselves?  If I may ask why should you or anybody bother about the religion of a person if the person does what they should be doing and they do it right?  This is one of the very fundamental things that seperates us from most other countries and it has been the biggest hinderance to our advancement or development.  We seem incapable of looking at our leadership based on what they should be doing and if they are doing it right and spend our time trying to get a muslim or christain in place.  The effect is that when these people do what should not be done and is not right we keep defending them based on some religious commonality and who suffers..the poor and needy!!!  I still stand by my position that the NCOMYO case is stupid, childish, irrelevant, embarassing and a totally distraction of the courts time that should be used on more important issues
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: EMTL on May 31, 2004, 05:49:29 PM
Then, there is the problem of religion. Had General Obasanjo declared himself a born again Christian and gone back to his farm, that would have been no problem. But to do so and then proceed to seek political power was bound to create a problem for religion and the country, especially within the Muslim population. This is the classical mixing of religion with politics and it has never, never worked anywhere. Although the Pentecostal community nationally and internationally was quick to embrace the President as a Christian President, as opposed to a Southern President, all these contributed to creating the conditions that produced the Sharia backlash that hamstrung the nation and chewed up the first three years of our return to democracy. Thus, whereas the North was credited with bringing Obasanjo to power, the Christian community claimed that they rescued him in the last elections when the Muslims were poised to throw him out. It is interesting that the same President would publicly rain abuses on a leader of that same Christian community. From Fredrick Chiluba, Jerry Falwell, Fr Aristide to our dear George Bush, it is clear that attempts to wear the religious toga into the political space is a dangerous preoccupation for any President and the nation. What we need to lead our nations are statesmen with a vision, not claims of religious superiority. Mr. Mandela made very little religious claims.  Revernd Mathew Kukah

 
 
 Adviser_Name/ Adviser_Position/
 
Southerners/Christians
 
 1.  Obong Ufot Ekaete-  Secretary to Government of the Federation
 2 Prince Olusola Akanmode- Deputy Chief of Staff, VP
 3 Ambassador A.O. Esan- Deputy Chief of Staff,President
 4 Dr. E. Daukoru, Special Adviser- Petroleum and Energy
 5 Prof. Jerry Gana- Political Matters
 6 Dr Charles Soludo- Economic  Adviser
 7 Prof. Julius Ihonvbare-  Programme And Policy Monitoring
 8 Mr. Kanu Agabi (SAN)- Ethics and Good Governance
 9 Mr. Ojo Maduekwe- Constitution and Legal Matters
 10 Prof. Wande Abimbola- Cultural Affairs and Traditional Matters
 11 Amb. Raph Uwechue- Special Envoy on Conflict Resolution In Africa
 12 Engr. Stanley Dako- Special Adviser VP
 13 Mr. Mike Kwanashie- Special Adviser, (VP)
 14 Mrs. Dupe Sasore- African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA)
 15 Mrs. Florence Ita Giwa- National Assembly Affairs
 16 Owelle Anayo Rochas Okorocha- Inter-Party Relations
 17 Deaconess J.O. Ayo- Economic Matters Chief of  Staff ( COS )
 18-Dr. Gbolade Osinowo- Domestic Political Affairs ( COS )
 19- Mrs E.C Asika - NEPAD
 20- Mrs. O.K. Ezekwesili- Due Process and Head of Unit BMPI.
 21- Mrs. Remi Oyo- Media and Publicity
 22- Dr. Andy Uba- Household Matters
 23- Dr. Onukaba A. Ojo- Media (VP)
 24- Dr. Maxwell Gidado- Legal (VP)
 25- Chris Mammah- Special Duties (VP)
 26- Mr. Ad’Obe Obe- Research, Strategy and Speech Writing.
27- Chief Onyema Ugochukwu- National Orientation Agency, Chairman,NNDC
 28- Prof. Magnus Kpakol- NAPEP National Coordinator.
 29- Mr. Nyaknno Osso- Library Services
 30- Mrs Apollonia Okigbo,- Due Process.
 31-Dr. S.N. Onuoha,-Bureau of Public Enterprise
 32- Ms Bose Ogunmuyiwa- National Orientation and Public Enlightenment.
 33- Princess Gloria Iweka- Presidential Matters (COS)
 34- Mr. Emmanuel Arinze- Public Communications
 35- Mr. T.O. Oyawoye- Due Process
 36- Mr. Bodunde Adeyanju- Presidential Matters
 37- Mr. Tunde Olusunle,- Special Duties
 38- Prof. C.Ohiagu- NASS
 39- Prince O. Mbafo- NASS
 40-n. Lumumba Adeh- NASS
 41- Mrs Toyin Adetunji- Food Security
 42- Mrs. Adeluola Doregos- Programme Montoring
 43-Mrs Dayo Akinmoyo- Human Trafficking
 -44 Mrs Ronke Omame- Urban and Housing
45- Mr. Segun Awolowo- Traditional Institutional Matters, South
46-r. Femi Fani-Kayode-Public Affairs
47- Ms. Beni Lar-Women Affair
48- Mr. Nat. W. Yaduma- Special  Group. Interests. (VP)
 49- Mrs. Tokunbo Adeola- NEC and Private Sector Liaison (VP)
 -50- Mr. Phil Agbasi,- NASS 1 (VP)
 51- Mr.Shima Ayati,- Special Duties (VP)
 52- Mr. Taiwo Ojo, Admin- C-in-C Secretariat
 53- Mrs. Rita Shodipo,- G77, NIDO Matters
 54- Mr.  U.A. Chizitera Iheakanwa- Economy Matters
 55- Mr. Kolade Akinjo,- Student Matters
 56- Miss Amope Adeoye,- Social Matters
57- Mr. Femi Johnson,- Secretariat Duties
 58- Miss Toyin Olatinwo,- Secretariat Duties (COS
  59- Mr. Johnbull Emodiac,- Secretariat Duties.
 60- Mr. Peter Ohemu,- Secretariat Duties.
 
 
 Notherners/Muslims
 
 1 Gen. Aliyu Gusau rtd- NSA
 2.-Maj.Gen. Abdulahi Muhammed rtd- Chief Of Staff.
 3. Alhaji Yayale Ahmed- Head of Service of the Federation
 4. Engr. Muhammed Abba-Gana- Relation with Civil Society
 5. Mal. Lawal Batagarawa- Non-Party Relations
 6. Prof. A.D. Yahaya- Special Adviser (Political) VP
 7. Alhaji Ahmed Abdulkadir- Manufacturing and Private Sector
 8. Dr. Aliu Modibbo- Research and Liaison
 9. Capt. Shehu Iyal- Presidents Planes ( Aviation )
 
Where is the Federal Character!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: EMTL on May 31, 2004, 05:57:58 PM
Mr. T,
OBj is setting a very BAD precedence. OBJ despise muslims in his Government... Just imagine what he made out of NTA. lookt at NTA's programs every sunday.......this is another precedence.

The man speak about fighting corruption but we all know that he is worst than any leader Nigeria ever had, looking at the Ministry he directly supervises (Petroluem Resoursces), the kangaroo privitisation, in which he was reported to have bought over UNIpetrol (OANDO), Abuja Stadium contract, etc.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: EMTL on May 31, 2004, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: "mallamt"
I still stand by my position that the NCOMYO case is stupid, childish, irrelevant, embarassing and a totally distraction of the courts time that should be used on more important issues


Mr. T, Is there any need for names calling????!!!!!!
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on May 31, 2004, 09:16:50 PM
EMTL

The point is that OBJ's religious beliefs has nothing to do with his performance as president.  To say simply that OBJ despises muslims just because there are more people belonging to the christain faith in his government is ridiculus how about noting that this is the first time in the history of the country that we have this scenario? what about the past 40 years plus? Are you trying to say dominance by muslims is okay?  You see that is why I am saying that the issue is not his beliefs (religious) but his performance.  And the day he indicates christains are in govt because they will do a better job I will also oppose such statements!

One of the problems of being in a position of power for too long is an inability to accept change and be threated with change.  I am sure you are aware that change management is a big issue in management these days.  Now that is the position we are finding ourselves we see all sorts of conspiracies, lopsidedness etc once one of our own is affected, we tend to forget that they are their for a service.  Just a few years ago the very list you have put here if you put it will seriously be skewed towards muslims and it was like that for decades.  Now the profile in terms of religion has changed we want to make it an issue haba!!  As I said earlier on I believe the current situation is just a case of what goes around comes around.

On the issue of OBJ setting a precedence I do not think you are right, those that set the precedence came before him, remember I said I believe it is a case of what goes around comes around.  The fact that he declared himself a born again christain is between him and God, but the most important thing is that he does not create a religious state, he does not infringe on the rights of other citizens who do not belong to the christain faith, they must be allowed to believe what they want to believe.

You made references to NTA now a few years ago in kaduna on NTA you had islamic programs on friday and even on sunday christain programs were for a few hours on sunday only, and kaduna is probably about 40% christain as for states like kano and sokoto just forget it christains got only about 30mins on sundays.  You should know that NTA like other institutions is forced to raise its own funds or part of it what essentially they are doing is selling air time.

It appears to me you were not reading my posting because what I gather from your comment is that you think I am directing my words to NCOMYO, which is totally untrue what I am talking about is their action and I still stand by my words on their action, I am not name calling but showing my distaste for their action.

My dear friend lop sided appointments on religious grounds did not start in 1999, they started long before that and if we are honest and want to deal with the matter objectively let us look from 1960 till date and ask why they have been happening.  I suppose it is a good sign that we are in the situation we are in now I hope we come out of it with a lesson and better understanding, when we did it we did not care and were not sensitive to these matters.  I sincerely hope we now understand how the other half feels all these times we have done same.

In the case of OBJ and his leadership may God help us, OBJ is not a leader and yes the country has been distroyed under him
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: alhaji_aminu on June 01, 2004, 01:21:55 AM
salam
Mallamt i believe you know more than saying disagreeing with you is chasing shadows. I said you cannot dismiss EMTL's arguments as nonsensical.
In my case, i made it clear that OBJ has the right to appoint those he so desire. And as an 'executive' president, his choice is beyond reproach. That is not to say there will be no repercussions. That is the issue right? that OBJ is appointing 'some' people into his govt but not others. I cannot see how you can say i am circumventing the issue.
Now, to say that OBJ's faith has nothing to do with his performance is wrong, very wrong indeed.  OBJ thinks he is a messiah and what messiah's do is divinely insipred. The divinity to which OBJ ascribes as being the 'sovereign truth' is the xtian/Muslim GOD. So when he suceeds, he dedicates that achievement to GOD. And he equally blames his failures to GOD, just for the sake of fairness. What an ignorant.
The same cannot be said of other heads of state. No other C-in-C openly flauts his faith more than OBJ. Let's not forget he is a Born a again.
For the avoidance of doubt, i am not saying Muslim presidents do/did a better job. Infact the worst head of state in Nigeria's history is a Muslim (we all know who).

PS: EMTL it's great you have provided evidence of OBJ appointees for all cynics to see. To me, it seems very lopsided and that is not good for anyone.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: _Waziri_ on June 02, 2004, 02:53:46 PM
Salam All,

If I may have the permission to intervene here, I would say, Mr. David, Ajingi and Mallamt are very  right in there observations as summarised by mallamt:

Quote from: "mallamt"
I know and apprciate that each individual has a right to his opinion.  I think both ajigini and dave capture the idea and understand the point very well.....  The point made by myself is that we must not allow the religion a person belongs to becloud our judgement of individuals.  Whether a person is christain, muslim, hindu, pagan etc they are God's creation and we must respect that (except of course if you will want to impply God made a mistake).


But yet the truth of the matter is it is OBJ whom Mr. David, Ajingi and Mallamt should tell these things. Why must he choose more people from a particular faith when the truth is  as mallamt say that:

 
Quote from: "mallamt"
We must not allow the religion a person belongs to becloud our judgement of individuals.  Whether a person is christain, muslim, hindu, pagan etc they are God's creation and we must respect that (except of course if you will want to impply God made a mistake).


Therefore OBJ is the one allowing religion to becloud his vision and he must try to "rectify" his vision.

Waziri
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 03, 2004, 04:51:08 PM
Khalil

I some how do agree with you but what you have done with the qoutes is unfair because you are not using it in context, however you are still right.  I do not dispute the fact that there may be more christains appointees in todays government, in the same way it may be said that there are more yorubas appointees being made further still you can say there are more southern appointees in this government.  You see whatever happens we are going to pick on something else.  But what no one has said anything about which surprises me is why has there been more muslim appointees in previous governments?  Is it then better to have predominantly muslim appointees in a government in nigeria than christains?  Why should christain appointees become an issue when it has been done previously with muslim appointees?

myadudu said "....Now, to say that OBJ's faith has nothing to do with his performance is wrong, very wrong indeed. OBJ thinks he is a messiah and what messiah's do is divinely insipred. The divinity to which OBJ ascribes as being the 'sovereign truth' is the xtian/Muslim GOD. So when he suceeds, he dedicates that achievement to GOD. And he equally blames his failures to GOD, just for the sake of fairness. What an ignorant." It should be clear even to myadudu that OBJ's veiw of himself has no bearing on how we as citizens of nigeria rate his performance, so to even refer to his veiw of himself is irrelevant!  For us to be objective and tackle the issue head on we must be able to look at his performance what he beliefs of himself is his problem except if that belief infringes on the rights of others.

The point I am trying to make is we can not in all honesty now want to look at the lop sidedness of appointments when it has always been happening, the fact that when it happened we were in charge does not mean others were not unhappy with it.  Let us look at the whole scenario and ask ourselves should we allow this government or any future govt in nigeria to be able to make lopsided appointments on the basis of religion? If the answer is no then what mmust we do what must be legislated?  What is the consequence of what we legislate today on tommorow? If the other groups come up and want appointments to also consider disability, sex, race etc are we in a position to listen to these groups and on the basis of fairness also allow them their own allotments in cabinets? or are we saying rights should only be limited to those who are either christains or muslims?  By the way were do those who are niether muslim or christains fall in this categorisations?  Do they not have rights too?  are they not a creation of God?

Let us concentrate on OBJ's performance and the performance of his cabinet or appointees one thing I am very sure of is whether he has more muslims than christains or more christains that muslim or even a 50-50 situation if he is a hopeless leader he will remain so!
Title: Re:NACOMYO Vs OBJ
Post by: Indabawa on June 03, 2004, 08:48:21 PM
All the hoopla on the undesirability of NACOMYO,for dragging His Imperial majesty, OBJ to court was just a 'traditional" wrangling from the champions of tribal and sectional jingoism, that had hijacked the present circus play-garbed as democracy.

The most incontrovertible fact ,is that President Obasanjo, has successfully sidelined Muslims in most of the stratagic appointments he made in the last five years.

Tharefore,NACOMYO should be applauded, not octracised, since they have not resorted to threats and violence as most often exemplified by the "educated"Afenifere thugs.

That Obasanjo has deliberately disfavoured Muslims in his cabinet and other appointments, is a fact that cannot be easily sweep away.

All the hues and cry that past muslim leaders had segregated xtians in their appointments was just a blatant and shameless misinformation from a bunch of 'educated illiterates".The facts are there to verify or otherwise.

The focus of all patriotic and peace loving Nigerian is to put all hands on deck, to see to the progress of our dear country; as a strong,united,wealthier and democratic nation deviod of rancour and devisive attitude of our so called leaders.

Therefore, name callings should not serve any purpose.President Obasanjo had set a dangerous precedent.Ba'a canja wa tuwo suna!
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: lionger on June 03, 2004, 10:37:23 PM
You said..
Quote
All the hues and cry that past muslim leaders had segregated xtians in their appointments was just a blatant and shameless misinformation from a bunch of 'educated illiterates" .The facts are there to verify or otherwise.

 
and then you turn around and say

Quote
The focus of all patriotic and peace loving Nigerian is to put all hands on deck, to see to the progress of our dear country...Therefore, name callings should not serve any purpose.President Obasanjo had set a dangerous precedent.


Practise what you preach mr man! Funny enough in your tirade against mallamt's very valid point IMO u certainly cancelled out much of the patriotic points you made. I ain't no yoruba but the Afenifere are as much 'thugs' as the Arewa or any other ethnocentrist political strongholds in the country!

Denying history or simply refusing to learn the lessons from it is no way to help Nigeria progress. Some of the problems we have seen under our 'return to democracy' is in some ways a backlash from years of discriminatory military rule, and while OBJ has been a disaster some of us shout to the high heavens as if Nigeria was flushing meadows b4 may 1999. Of course OBJ's appointments have been lopsided, but please lets not start wailing as if this is a new thing.  It is NOT a precedent; it has been happening under previous muslim governments. I know from personal experience that this discrimination certainly existed in the foreign affairs ministry. Naturally i'm not surprised that no-one here will step up and admit it, however we shouldn't try and hoodwink others with patriotic talk.  Rather, just step up and state the obvious: we want our turn! I've said it b4, this 'na my turn' attitude is the scourge of our nascent democracy. It doesn't mean the present arrangement is acceptable, far from it. But it does give IMO a complete explanation as to 'why' it is there.

So if we want to solve this problem then read the last paragraph of mallamt's latest post. However if u still want to argue about relative religious fairplay under 'muslim' governance then please replace your blunt dismissal of his opinion with hard answers to the question he asked EMTL, which, I have noticed, nobody bothered to reply.

And by the way, welcome to kano-online  :P  
[/b]
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: alhaji_aminu on June 03, 2004, 11:28:53 PM
salam
Khalil I guess you are right that my presumption of OBJ being a born again influences his decisions, as C-in-C, is kind of a misleading.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Off topic.

Just read today in the papers that the corrupt ministers in the $214 million scam have been released and re-arrested? What is going on here. Isnt there the double jeopardy statute in Nigeria's judiciary?
Nigeria................ na wa wo!







1
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 04, 2004, 12:42:42 PM
Quote from: "EMTL"

 Adviser_Name/ Adviser_Position/
 
Southerners/Christians
 
 1.  Obong Ufot Ekaete-  Secretary to Government of the Federation
 2 Prince Olusola Akanmode- Deputy Chief of Staff, VP
 3 Ambassador A.O. Esan- Deputy Chief of Staff,President
 60...............
 
 Notherners/Muslims
 
 1 Gen. Aliyu Gusau rtd- NSA
 2.-Maj.Gen. Abdulahi Muhammed rtd- Chief Of Staff.
 3. Alhaji Yayale Ahmed- Head of Service of the Federation
 (9)...........
 
Where is the Federal Character!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I had another look at EMTL's posting of appointees in OBJ's government with reference to the faith of the various appointees.  A disturbing image that appears is the headings

The first heading is Southerners/Christians.  The second list is of Northerners/Muslims.

This is a very clear indication of the indoctrination some of our people get in their faiths.  firstly there is an assumption that only southerners are christians or else you would not have the Southern/Christain heading secondly a position is being put forward here that if you are a northerner and christain then you are not a northerner but a southerner.  in other words you can not be from the north and a christian!!  The discussion all along has been on christain and muslim appointees in OBJ's cabinet, howeevr EMTL has added a new dimension on who can be a christain and who can be a muslim based on geographical regions.  If EMTL had wanted to discuss only based on Christain and Muslim appointees in the cabinet he would not have added the Northern and Southern tag along with religious faiths.  This is abit worrying and I hope that through the interaction in this forum that norther forumites who are muslims take the opportunity to educate others that there are northerners who are christains even from states like kano, sokoto, bauchi, maiduguri etc such discussion may make us see the humans in ourselves and make us question why we even bother to slaughter each other.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: _Waziri_ on June 04, 2004, 03:10:46 PM
Salam All,

Mallamt, it appears like you are saying the lopsidedness in appointments has always been happening? I think this a mere presumption at whatever scale unless if we have some evidence to prove it. I am pretty sure if there were anything of that nature in the recent past of our history, we would have had records on newspapers where CAN gloated over it.

Though I find it easy to agree with you when you said:

Quote from: "mallamt"

Let us concentrate on OBJ's performance and the performance of his cabinet or appointees one thing I am very sure of is whether he has more muslims than christains or more christains that muslim or even a 50-50 situation if he is a hopeless leader he will remain so!


I believe you will also agree with me that when a kind of lopsidedness as seen in OBJ's cabinet continues, it has a tendency of making our motherland ungovernable. For while very few can understand and tolerate a majority made Muslim/Christian cabinet, the majority of our populace will prefer to retire into the cocoon of religion and ethinic affiliation. As such, it is better we have a 50-50 cabinet and manage our bad leadership around than to have a lopsidedness that will make the bad leadership worst.

Waziri
Title: NACOMYO Vs OBJ
Post by: Indabawa on June 04, 2004, 06:39:22 PM
...Lionger,it seems you totally misunderstood my points.What i had insinuated, was that, fact should be a fact.Issues should be viewed and analysed dispassionately.

What i meant by stating that OBJ, had set a "dangerous precedent" is that President Obasanjo, is suppossed to be operating under the absolute guidance of the constitution of the Federal Republic.Has he ever proved to be all that subservient in his actions, under our "nascent" democracy?

Moreover,have we ever witnessed a more flagrant and insensitive display of pathological disdain to a particular set of populace,simply for the need to decapitate them politically?

Injustice is injustice,period!

What we are essentialy saying is that NACOMYO had done no wrong in dragging OBJ to court.

Those who felt that past leaders had also abused their office by lopsided appointments may have took a stand on the issue during the contentious period.In addition,people should take note that the past leaders, save for one, had operated a non democratic governance.

Therefore,our watch word should be how would we help to promote good governance under a virile democratic clime?It does not matter who is at the helm.I also quite agree that it does not matter what religion a leader professes, as per as he would positively improve the welfare of the generality of Nigerians.

Meanwhile,thanks for the wellcome.
Title: Intolerance confusing the real problem
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on June 05, 2004, 12:30:07 AM
This topic is developing with great interest. I am glad that many forumites now agree that religious intolerance has obscured the real problem -which is that of bad government, which has little to do with the religion of those governing. Governing is mainly to do with ability, good intentions, justice, intelligence and honesty.
It is not wise for a President to appoint mainly co-religionists to power in a society with deep religious division. The fact that it happened in Moslems favour in the past does not justify it happening in Christians' favour today. If Nigeria is ever to be rid of the religious tension which causes bad trouble from time to time a line has to be drawn on the past and a fresh beginning made. (As they did so well in South Africa under Nelson Mandela).
It will take a leader of real stature to be able to do this and to be able to put together a Government while resisting the temptation to fill it with friends, co-religionists and tribesmen. Nigeria is waiting for such a  man.
In the meantime more should be expected of your religious leaders who do not seem to have the courage to point the finger at corrupt leaders and dishonest politicians.
Dave McEwan Hill
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 05, 2004, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: "Khalil"
Salam All,

Mallamt, it appears like you are saying the lopsidedness in appointments has always been happening? I think this a mere presumption at whatever scale unless if we have some evidence to prove it. I am pretty sure if there were anything of that nature in the recent past of our history, we would have had records on newspapers where CAN gloated over it.


This is precisely part of the problem, you are trying to imply that the fact that CAN never said anything then there was no problem or lopsided appointments never happened.  You are in denial to even suggest that there may have not been lopsided appointments of muslims in past governments I shall leave you with that task if you sincerely want to find out you will reasearch the issue that is from 1960 - 1999 in each government the distribution of appointments on the basis of religion.

You must note that never in the history of nigeria have muslims had the freedom to design and implement sharia law like they have under OBJ's govt, which you are accussing of being too christian.  What is it exactly that this govt or its appointees done to hinder the development or growth of islam?  How have the rights of muslims been infringed upon since 1999.  Surely you would understand why the federal character is there, that is the only way that it can be ensured that all regions (or states) in nigeria participate in the running of the federal republic of nigeria, which is a right every region (or state) has.  So what muslim rights are being infringed on?  By the way what about the other religions why are you silent about them?  Is it because they are quite?  Do we want them to start attacking and killing christians and muslims before we know they also want appointments to represent them?  Or are we waiting for them to take muslims and christians to court?  Please let us be real and stop shadow chasing!!

It is a pity that your veiw is that religion must be used as a basis of making appointments in nigeria.  I suppose this is the very dangerous path that nigeria is proceeding on that is making everyone edgy.  You seem to be unable to reconcile yourself with the concept of nigeria as a nation were everyone is equal, therefore you want us to further emphasize our difference by bringing in religion when making appointments.  I am one of those very against the soveriegn national conference some people call for in nigeria, yet when I read postings such as yours I wonder whether those calling for the SNC are not right.

Apart from the constant uproar or acquisations that OBJ's appointments have been lopsided not you or anyone has said how that is affecting his performance (having more christains than muslims), have you ever considered that the only reason CAN never made noise previously was because they knew and understood the fact that lopsided appointments will never mean a government will have a good performance?  And in the same way I am sure you have not heard CAN clamouring for more christain appointees in the papers when OBJ came to power or have you? (to use your style - prove it)

What will make our country ungovernable is you and I not able to measure our leaders on the basis of their performance but instead bring in issues such as religion.  As Dave made reference to South Africa and people like Mandela, what has made the country such a "miracle" was the ability of the people who were treated lower than the earth to rise above all that and say to their former oppressors let us work together and build a strong and properous country based on mutual respect.  This did not mean there was no pain and suffering on the ground that could have been hijacked and used to make the country ungovernable -there was, but there was also a few people including leadership which spearheaded the healing and reorientation of the people.  This is what we have to do we can not just say the country would be ungovernable the likes of you, I and other nigerians must find a way of making sure we rise above our differences that continually divide us and cause heartaces, loss of life and property such as religious sentiments.  The only thing that would make nigeria ungovernable is if you, I and a great majority of nigerians are incapable of rising above our differences.

So instead of talking about how many christains or muslims appointees there are let us talk about whether the appointees are doing what they should be doing and we should rise and work collectively and refuse to be divided but agree to mutual respect for each other and demand a proper and just leadership that can lead us to properity.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: _Waziri_ on June 07, 2004, 05:30:33 PM
Mallamt,

Yes, actually there was not any lopsidedness in appointments in the past administrations. Remember, in intellectual discourses we are suppose to accompany our submissions with some factual evidence. It is not my responsibility to go and verify your claim for you. It is your soul responsibility to do it yourself. In a situation where you cannot then we say you have no argument at all. This is the tradition.

But I think Mr. david has capped everything up.

I remain most grateful
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 07, 2004, 08:15:31 PM
Khalil

I suppose it is all too easy to just say prove it.  Seeing that you do agree with David is atleast one step.  I have not claimed or even suggested that lopsided appointments may not be taking place now nor do I try to justify their happening. You see the  for any meaningful discussion to take place, there has to be an aknowledgement that lopsided appointments in favour of muslims did take place in previous govt.  You can not just want to wipe out the past as if it did not happen if any thing the past should determine what we do today about the future.  It is this blatant denial of the past that is removing any basis of discussions.  Even in the south african case they did not wake up to say let us foget the past and discuss the future, there had to be an acknowledgement that what had happened was wrong and had to come to an end and the end was discussed and negotiated on the basis that the past must not repeat itself with the reverse.  Now we are refusing to agree that anything like lopsided appontments happened in the past and we are asking for proof! what planet have you been living on?! please all I am saying is that we should be honest with ourselves, if we ask for proof as we are doing it now even when confronted with it we would not agree.  Do you know how federal character and the like came to be made a part of our constitution?
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: lionger on June 07, 2004, 09:48:24 PM
lol Waziri

always asking for proof of the sun's existence, just that that other time when u asked me to prove that most post-WWII wars were not anti-islamic! oya, y don't you prove that past muslim govts were religiously unbiased instead? surely that is your responsibility, shebi dis na 'intellectual discussion'  :lol:  :lol: ??
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: EMTL on June 08, 2004, 09:54:38 AM
Quote from: "lionger"
lol Waziri

always asking for proof of the sun's existence, just that that other time when u asked me to prove that most post-WWII wars were not anti-islamic! oya, y don't you prove that past muslim govts were religiously unbiased instead? surely that is your responsibility, shebi dis na 'intellectual discussion'  :lol:  :lol: ??


The fact is even if there have some similarities in lopsided appointments with past Governments, tha fact is we didnt elect the IBB and Abacha Governments, OBJ was elected, at least in 1999, and he wnet round the country and campaigend. He told us that he knew the problem of Nigeria and is detrmine to curb corruption and injustuce, bla-bla-bla, but it is unfortunate that a man who claim to be patriotic and came to change the country for the better is doing worst than any of our past leaders.

He is setting dangerous precedents, such as;
1. Introducing Ghana-Must-Go, politics, cash and carry,
2. religious/tribal politics,
3. killed political opponents and we call it armed robbery
4. won questionable elections and we call it landslide victory.
5. destroyed the Judiciary and we advise our political opponents to have faith in the election tribunals.
6.manipulated INEC and call it free and fair elections.
7. bribed the electorate and we call it 'carry go'.
8. Top Government officials have bought over all our Government-owned companies and we call it privitisation

WHO OWNS OANDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!No be OBJ......Allah ya isa!!!!!!!!!!
9. created artificial fuel scarcity inorder to raise the prices of petroleum products and call it commercialization.
10. raised the prices of petroleum products several times without justification and call it deregulation.
11. Look at the way they are  establishing companies abroad and bringing them into the country to win all the big contracts , is this foreign invetment?.
12. Top Government officials have established refineries abroad where they refine our crude oil and bring it back to sell to us and call it 'offshore operations'.
13. abandoned our country and spent a total of two out of four years in foreign countries and call it diplomatic shuttling.
14. Armed our youths (Area Boys, Torah, OPC,...) to attack our opponents and call them local militia.
15. turned our youths into well-armed political thugs and call it cultism.
16. turned ICPC against our opponents and call it 'pursuing corruption'.
17. opponents cry but obJ call it destabilization.
18. out-rigged opponents reject election results BUT obJ call it threat to democracy and national security.
19. destroyed our institutions of higher learning and THAT call it university autonomy.
20. steal money and save it in foreign banks and we call it offshore banking.

21. OBJ sold Nigeria and pocketed the money and call that vision 2010.

22. Their sons and daughters are major importers and exportets of petroleum products.

IS OBJ THE WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENNED TO NIGERIA????. Those who support or depend the devil are evil themselves. One day they will visit their graves and see the result the attrocities they have committed, untill they repent and do good they will one day regret their actions.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: _Waziri_ on June 08, 2004, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: "lionger"
lol Waziri

always asking for proof of the sun's existence, just that that other time when u asked me to prove that most post-WWII wars were not anti-islamic! oya, y don't you prove that past muslim govts were religiously unbiased instead? surely that is your responsibility, shebi dis na 'intellectual discussion'  :lol:  :lol: ??


That is just that Lionger,

Mine is that of a knowledge seeker. I expect you to prove what you say first before you put it to me to believe. You cannot expect me to prove you wrong until you attempt proving something.

If you should just make a sweeping statement, like a propagandist, who says the bigger the lie the more it will be believed, without giving it any substance of intellectual discourse.  How sure am I that if I attempt giving it intellectual flavour it will make sense to you. So I say you first give yours that flavour first before I come up with mine. Simple.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 08, 2004, 09:07:06 PM
Quote from: "Khalil"
Mine is that of a knowledge seeker. I expect you to prove what you say first before you put it to me to believe. You cannot expect me to prove you wrong until you attempt proving something.


Quote
Yes, actually there was not any lopsidedness in appointments in the past administrations. Remember, in intellectual discourses we are suppose to accompany our submissions with some factual evidence. It is not my responsibility to go and verify your claim for you. It is your soul responsibility to do it yourself. In a situation where you cannot then we say you have no argument at all. This is the tradition.



Khalil

I am sure you are an intelligent person who should know that having an intelligent discussion does not have to be about only proving something but can also be about disproving something.  Fact as you would know can be subjective, it all depends on the lense through which we look at the data. You can set out to disprove any "fact" or perceptions an individual or group may have if you have evidence to disprove their position.  So please do not try to present a situation that there has to be "facts" which you agree with before you go about disproving them.  Even if a position is based on a perception you can disprove it because that perception is the holders fact except if you can disprove it!!  Now coming back to the discussion it is a known fact (to use your terminology) that there has been a perception of lopsided appointments by previous govts before this govt and it appears you do not agree with this position can you then disprove this position or perception please?  May be we can have an intelligent discussion as you have suggested.[/quote]
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: alhaji_aminu on June 08, 2004, 09:18:34 PM
Salam
I think enough has been said about this 'matta'. It is true that OBJ's appointees are mainly christian. But, It cannot be shown that their been  christians is responsible for (mis) managing this nation.
It is my view that when it comes to wrecking this country, there really isnt any difference between the muslim and christian military-political elites.
Allah help us all!
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 08, 2004, 09:36:58 PM
EMTL

most of what you have said is true and reading through it you can just see almost all the leaderships nigeria has had.  One intresting thing is that it appears the only areas nigeria may have recorded improvements between a present govt and an immediate past one is in most of the areas you have listed in other words things get worse.

I must however highlight to you that the vision 2010 was a brain child of the Abacha govt and not OBJ (see 21).  I have gone through the document and must say it is a beautifully compiled document that if implemented well would have turned nigeria around.  But I suppose since it was put together under Abacha we are dismissing it, alot of things proposed in the document are today under this govt begining to be implemented however they are not being implemented properly or as recommended.

Whether a govt was elected or came to power through the barrel of a gun, it has a responsibility to the citizenry of nigeria.  So it does not matter how a govt came to power if we agree a thing is wrong then it is wrong, let us not even start with a concept of different punishments for the same crime.  The moment we do not have this basic and common position then everyone or govt would have an excuse for misruling nigeria.

OBJ has done a bad job in nigeria I believe there is clear evidence to that today, after spending several millions of $ in NEPA there is still no light, look at the riots and the life and propety they have claimed after five years they are still as rampant and no one is arrested or punished for them.  Then the corruption the violent armed roberry, one is not saying that these things should have disappeared completely within 4 years of this govt but that fact that nothing is done about them, they have not been stabalised or reduced is a clear indication that OBJ is an incapable leader
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: _Waziri_ on June 09, 2004, 02:45:08 PM
Ok, now I believe everybody can see the deadlock we all are in, which  brings out the reality of things as it is.

Let me put it this way:

You cannot substantiate your case against those Muslims who ruled Nigeria in the past.

I refuse to absolve them from your charge against them.

Then the conclusion to every fair mind is there is no case. Since the argument and the counter argument contain null answers. This I think is most understable. No case in "lopsidedness in appointments" against Muslims who ruled Nigeria in the past.

On a more serious note. I am a Muslim who believe that,  in the 21th century, Secularism and Irreligion are the greatest vices that all well meaning individuals must put fight against. As a result the battle I fight all my life is directed at showing all Muslims and Christians alike that their commom enemy lurks behind secular forces which we must join hands to fight for in it is accompanied that force that always tries stripping us off our most cherished values and moral attributes. I pray I will find more who will join me in this CRUSADE that hopes to cleanse mankind from damage done to them by the unrepentant secularists.  

OBJ and any other person of sincere intentions must then see that Christians and Muslims can be brothers and sisters fighting against a common enemy.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 09, 2004, 10:16:51 PM
Quote from: "Khalil"
Ok, now I believe everybody can see the deadlock we all are in, which  brings out the reality of things as it is.


Not true Khalil

Quote
Let me put it this way:

You cannot substantiate your case against those Muslims who ruled Nigeria in the past.

I refuse to absolve them from your charge against them.

Then the conclusion to every fair mind is there is no case. Since the argument and the counter argument contain null answers. This I think is most understable. No case in "lopsidedness in appointments" against Muslims who ruled Nigeria in the past.


You are contradicting yourself here you say you refuse to absolve them from the charges yet you say the argument and counter argument contain null answers. This contradiction you are presenting can only lead to an unfair conclusion and not a fair one like you are trying to say.

Quote
Secularism and Irreligion are the greatest vices that all well meaning individuals must put fight against. As a result the battle I fight all my life is directed at showing all Muslims and Christians alike that their commom enemy lurks behind secular forces which we must join hands to fight for in it is accompanied that force that always tries stripping us off our most cherished values and moral attributes. I pray I will find more who will join me in this CRUSADE that hopes to cleanse mankind from damage done to them by the unrepentant secularist


Very controversial statement, I hope it is only a personal veiw and you are open to discussion with people who have opposing veiws.

Quote
OBJ and any other person of sincere intentions must then see that Christians and Muslims can be brothers and sisters fighting against a common enemy.


In veiw of the context you are saying this I reserve my comments but when veiwed from a broader perspective (when the common enemy is poverty, illetracy, corruption, violence, crime, joblessness, disease etc)no one could have said it better.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: _Waziri_ on June 10, 2004, 10:07:43 AM
Interesting indeed, but let me make some final comment.

I said you could not substantiate your case and I refuse to absolve them from your charges. This left all the arguments for and against  barren and NULL. And here  you are saying this is contradictory. Really dunno why.

And to the other part of my statements you said are controversial and yet refused to pin point what is controversial in them. I pray we are not coming round the circle of making empty assertions again.

Tis really been fun chatting with you. Some other time.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: Indabawa on June 11, 2004, 11:04:43 AM
mallamt,
It is too easy to ignore your arguments but difficult to resist raising some issues from your latest submission.

You seem to be self contradicting by repeatedly asserting and re-asserting that OBJ as either being fare or lopsided in his appointments.

I must therefore safely inpute that your line of argument is a :lol:  typical of the self-serving elite that must bear the full responsibility of the perrenial cyclical retrogression of Nigeria as a nation.

What i assume you glibly want your listeners(or readers ) to believe is that you were being impartial in your arguments.However, any discernible observer will easily identify the interest you represent-OBJ apologists.

Therefore in my opinion, what one should bear in mind is to be couragiuos enough to always show his true color so as to make it easier for others to know at which platform one should stand when parring an issue.

In conclusion,i should again reiterate my earliar stand which i happily note Mr Dave,khalil and others share in that Nigeria truely needs a thorougly de-trabilise,just and fare leader.A leader who is ready to adopt a "Mandela option";not the present pretenders who deliberately compound Nigeria's myriad of complexities.

Best regards. :D  :D  :D
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 13, 2004, 09:34:02 PM
Quote from: "Khalil"
Interesting indeed, but let me make some final comment.
I said you could not substantiate your case and I refuse to absolve them from your charges. This left all the arguments for and against  barren and NULL. And here  you are saying this is contradictory. Really dunno why.

Quote
Yes, actually there was not any lopsidedness in appointments in the past administrations. Remember, in intellectual discourses we are suppose to accompany our submissions with some factual evidence. It is not my responsibility to go and verify your claim for you. It is your soul responsibility to do it yourself.

Quote
Mallamt, it appears like you are saying the lopsidedness in appointments has always been happening? I think this a mere presumption at whatever scale unless if we have some evidence to prove it.

I have taken advantage of this technology to refresh you about your statements.  This is being done under the assumption that you believe in fair play and are being consistent with your position therefore you are not oing to shift the goal post

1)  The last of the three qoutes of your posting was the very second posting on this subject matter, this was after EMTL posted a list of appointees that OBJ made and are christians.  That posting was the evidence of lopsided appointments made by OBJ as provided by EMTL.  One can easily see from your comment in the bottom qoute from you that you had no problem with the evidence and by extension you agree with the evidence produced and therefore that is also your position.  It is also evident from you remarks that you are in disagreement with those who held a position that lopsided appointments in favour of muslims had been happening with past govts thus your request for a proof of such and did not even attempt to disproof such perceptions or facts.
2)  In your third posting you go further to reemphasize that there was never lopsided appointments in past govts in favour of muslims and again insist on proof of the occurrence of such.  This is a further indication of your position.
3)  So let us look at what your last posting and the question you asked.  You are trying to say that because you have "refused to absolve them" and "I can not proof" lopsided appointments took place in past govts then it is a null argument.  This is the furtherest thing from the truth there is no null argument as evident from your previous postings.  a) You have taken a position which is based on your agreeing with the list therefore you have a position in the argument which can not be said to be null. b) I have a position on this argument which can not be said to be a null position.
4)  You say that you "refuse to absolve them from your charge against them" and because you refuse to absolve the arguments are null.  Your statement is very redundant - saying nothing, it is just symantics, how can you absolve them when you agree with them? Do you see any null situation here?
If you are using the concept of the null hypothesis remember that it is basically used to show or proof a particular position

On the issue of controversial statement oh no we are not going round in circles.  Let me give you some key things you have said: a) "Secularism and irreligion are the greatest vices....individuals must put fight against"-I know a lot of people who will disagree with you and a lot who will agree with you and then there is the constitution and individual rights. b)".....common enemy lurks behind secular forces..." - again controversial statement.  Just go through that part of your posting again carefully and think about what you are saying.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 13, 2004, 09:59:27 PM
Quote from: "Indabawa"
mallamt,
You seem to be self contradicting by repeatedly asserting and re-asserting that OBJ as either being fare or lopsided in his appointments.
.....What i assume you glibly want your listeners(or readers ) to believe is that you were being impartial in your arguments.However, any discernible observer will easily identify the interest you represent-OBJ apologists.

Best regards. :D  :D  :D


Idabawa
I am no sure what you are refering to as regards my being contradictory in my last post.  I never said OBJ was being fair with the current lopsided appointments, all I have said or tried to point out is that we must not pretend or ignore the past.  We can never as nigerians have any meaningful discussion of our future today if we ignore yesterday.  We must try and put discussions of our country into perspective and the only way to do that is to discuss look at current happenings and trace them back into history to try and understand them and therefore correct them in a meaningful way.  That is the "Mandela" approach you are talking about.  Are you aware that there were months and months of discussions in SA before any agreements were made?  Did you know that discussions started when Mandela was still in prison and when he came out you had CODESA which collasped and then you had the second round of discussions?  It is a process my friend and the past must be discussed today if we are to shape a meaningful tommorrow.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: EMTL on June 17, 2004, 11:53:50 AM
Assalamu alaikum,
A multi-million naira structure that would house a Presidential Library and Museum is soon to sprout in Otta, a sprawling industrial location in Ogun State.

It will sit on a 36 acres piece of land and is fashioned after those founded and facilitated by several former presidents of the United States.

Presidential Senior Special Adviser on Research and Strategy, Ad’Obe Obe, is co-coordinating the project while Aso Rock Chief Librarian Nyaknno Osso will play a vital role in its setting up.

The choice of Otta is tailored to fit into the American experience where former presidents site such monuments either in their hometowns or favourite places of abode. Obasanjo has a sprawling investment interest in Otta spanning agriculture, education and hospitality.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT OBJ WILL AGAIN USE OUR MONEY AND BUILD A LIBRARY IN THE OTA FARM. LETS WE FORGET OTTA FARM WAS ACTUALLY A PROJECT FUNDED BY WORLD BANK/UNDP FOR NIGERIA BUT OBJ HAS SINCE MADE OTTA FARM HIS PERSONAL PROPERTY......
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 17, 2004, 03:45:11 PM
EMTL

Thanx for the information.  Now can we see forumites? How can we let a leadership that has made so much noise about corruption do this?  Why is nobody holding this man to account? If this is going to be a pattern I belive it must be put through the senate and legislature then we know that every president from now on in nigeria is entitle to this type of development.  Does anyone by any chance have an idea of how much this library would cost or even a rough estimate?
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: alhaji_aminu on June 17, 2004, 05:40:21 PM
salam
EMTL  yallabai. On one hand, we cannot see how OBJ can do this with his pocket money or salary. On the otherhand, we cannot proove OBJ is doing this project with stolen money.  The dilemma is that the people running the project will not tell us, the Nigeria people, who is funding the center.
It is most likely going to be built by OBJ's supporters who benefitted form contracts given to them. I dont know what to say. Its funny and sad at the same time that the administration that created ICPC is perhaps the most blatantly corrupt regime Nigeria has seen.
yaushe zamuga karshe wannan wahalar da OBJ yake bawa jama'a?
Allah help us all.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: Indabawa on June 17, 2004, 09:25:12 PM
Forumites,

I must admit that i am extermely sad, for our vain lamentations.Reason:was it not our so called leaders that falls all over themselves to impose this man on us prior to 1999?

Was it not also the same myopic "stratagists", who blatantly contrived the prevailing charade, just to foolishly placate the vacous irredentists?

Our so called leaders, whom i prepare to address as sell-outs, had commited a grievious political suicide!

In my view therefore,we should not continue to lament our conditions,rather,we should strive to frustrate all the efforts of these rapacious ex-this,ex-that for their trying to remain relevant in the political chess game of the federation.

Or most importantly,we should borrow a leaf from our brothers in the south-west; by their attitude of "dealing" with all those they felt had betrayed their common cause,no matter their standing in the society.

It is perhaps this knowledge of eventual ostracisation, that compells OBJ and indeed any Yoruba leader to act as they do.

Therefore blame not OBJ but our selfish and shameless 'leaders'.

Shame on YOU arewa leaders for taking the destiny of the whole country in to the present political cul-de-suc. :(
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on June 19, 2004, 10:12:44 AM
Quote from: "Indabawa"
Forumites,


In my view therefore,we should not continue to lament our conditions,rather,we should strive to frustrate all the efforts of these rapacious ex-this,ex-that for their trying to remain relevant in the political chess game of the federation.

:(


Very well said and couldn't agree with you more
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mrguest on June 20, 2004, 12:58:10 AM
Quote from: "lionger"
couldn't have said it better, mallamt. I was even prepared to give this post the benefit of the doubt until i came across the inflattering conclusion:

Quote
Allah will definitely come to our rescue and save us from the CAN agenda of reducing us to flotsam and jetsam of the Nigeria society.

the amusing thing is that if u speak to some christians they will tell u Obasanjo is a stooge of the muslim north, whereas most ppl here will say he is a christian/yoruba sympathiser.  Each side believes Uncle Sege is protecting the interests of the other. lol this is the hallmark of a truly incompetent leadership and of a people who are still not ready to learn the lesson of past failures.





http://nigeriacom.proboards32.com/index.cgi
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: EMTL on March 14, 2005, 11:19:47 AM
Assalamu alaikum,
NATIONAL DA’WAH CO-ORDINATION COMMITTEE  NATIONAL MOSQUE ABUJA, NIGERIA.

PRESS CONFERENCE AT THE NATIONAL MOSQUE ABUJA ON THE 23RD OF FEBRUARY 2005.
Gentlemen of the Press, you are all welcome to this Press Conference called to ventilate our strong

feelings and state our opinion and that of other millions of Nigerian Muslims on this unpatriotic, unjust, ill-conceived, ill-motivated and anti Islamic composition of the National Political Reform Conference inaugurated by President Obasanjo on Monday, 21st of February 2005.

It is most unfortunate and most uncharitable for a man who wishes to be seen as the father of a new Nigeria and who had been carrying out reforms both political and economic to go out of his way to exhibit in a crude and irresponsible manner his Christian bigotry in a way that can lead to chaos and anarchy in this country. For President Obasanjo to so constitute the national Confab, which he said was to cool the nerves of the various aggrieved stakeholders , in a way that blatantly disregards the religious character of the nation, quite oblivious of the sentimental disposition of the Muslims who incontrovertibly constitute the majority in this country is most disturbing.  

This is a great affront on Islam and the Muslims. To have appointed Justice Niki Tobi, a Christian deacon from the South-South ,as the chairman and Mathew Hassan Kukah, a catholic reverend father from the North,where the predominating culture is Islamic as secretary is completely out of order. This is inspite of the advice of many Muslim governors, PDP chieftains,religious leaders and even the press when the rumor gained currency that these two Christians were to head the conference and another Christian to head the secretariat of the confab. [This has shown that what Obasanjo is practicing is not democracy but Obasanjotocracy or what somebody called Babatocracy.]

The purpose of this press briefing is to let the world know that President Obasanjo’s Christianisation agenda may lead to the end of this country if nothing is done to call him to order. It also meant to focus the searchlight on this odious trend which did not start with the composition of the National Confab but has been the trend since the beginning of his second time in office. And we shall provide the facts and figures .

When Obasanjo constituted the cabinet for his second term in office, he appointed 42 ministers out of whom only 16 were Muslims and 26 were Christians. In the whole of Kwara, Kogi, South West, South East and South South, there was not a single Muslim  

No. of Christians    26
No. of Muslim     16
Percentage of Christians   61.9%
Percentage of Muslims   38.1%
No. of Special Advisers and aides  60
No. of Christians    47
No. of Muslims     13
Percentage of Muslims   21.7%
Percentage of Christians   78.3%

It was only when the National Council of Muslim Youth Organizations (NACOMYO) protested that Engr. Bashir Awotorebo was appointed from Osun State; and today he is the only Muslim in the Cabinet from the Southern part of Nigeria, Kwara, Kogi inclusive.  

In the list of Special Advisers and Aides there was not a single Muslim from the South West, South East and South South, whereas he was able to appoint Christians from Muslims dominated areas like Borno, Bauchi and Kaduna States.

We should also not forget that when President Obasanjo constituted the Oputa Panel he rode roughshod over the Muslims by appointing Justice Oputa, a Christian as chairman, Rev. Father Hassan Kukah as secretary, and most of the panelists were also Christians but nobody raised a finger of protest. This must have emboldened the President to continue his Muslims cleansing agenda unabated.  

USING CHRISTIANS TO REPLACE MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS TO REPLACE CHRISTIANS.

After Obasanjo realised that the leadership of the Muslim community have been sufficiently caged and had capitulated to his autocracy, the trend started that when a Muslim is removed, replaced or retired from a public office he is automatically replaced by a Christian and when a Christian is removed, another Christian is waiting in the wings to replace him or her. A few examples will suffice:

When Nasiru el-Rufai was appointed a Minister and had to leave the Bureau for Public Enterprise he was replaced by one Julius Bala a Christian.

When Alh. Ibrahim Mohammed Jarma retired as Comptroller of Prisons he was replaced by one Mr. Sam Akpe a Christian.

When Alh. Aminu Dabo was removed as the boss of Nigeria Port Authority, he was replaced by Mr. Bayo Sarumi a Christian.

When Alh.Ahmed Mustafa retired as the Comptroller of Customs he was replaced by Mr. John Gyam Buba a Christian.

When Bello Sulayman was removed as Managing Director National Electric Power Authority he was replaced by Mr. Joseph Makoju a Christian

When Alh. Ballama Manu was removed as the Director General of Federal Inland Revenue Board, he was replaced by Ms Ifueko Omoigui a Christian.

When Alh. Mahe Rasheed against the recommendation of the Board of Central Bank was not allowed to have a second term as Deputy Governor; he was replaced by one Mrs.Wahir Mshelia a Christian.

When Alhaji Rilwan Lukman voluntarily retired as special adviser on Petroleum he was replaced by Edmund Dakoro a Christian.

Now let us examine the religious persuasion of those who have been replacing Christians removed in the like manner.

When Chief Sunday Oluwole Oduyemi retired as Deputy of Governor of Central Bank another Christian Mr. Tunde Lemo ,former Managing Director of Wema Bank was brought in to replace him.

When Chief Joseph Sanusi after a meritorious service retired as the Governor of Central Bank another Christian Professor Charles Soludo replaced him.

Soludo himself was Economic Adviser to the President before he was appointed as Governor of Central Bank. So, when he went to the Central Bank the popular belief within the Banking Industry was that one Alh. Tajudeen Adeola , one of the most successful bankers will be appointed in his place. Alas his Muslim background proved the albatross. Professor Ade Ojowu came instead as Economic Adviser.

When Lady Nwizu Comptroller of Immigration Services died, all the Muslims who were next to her were retired and one Chukwuma Udeh was recently appointed to take her place.

When Dr. Jackson Obaseki was removed as Managing Director of NNPC Dr.Funso Kupolokun another Christian was brought in.

When Ferdinard Agu was removed as Director General of National Maritime Authority was replaced by Festus Ugwu.

Just last week the President inaugurated the Board of the newly created Board for Universal Basic Education, of the 10 members 6 are Christians and the Chairman is also a Christian. The list is as follows:-

Professor Anezi Okoro (Christian) Chairman
Professor Egu Egiru (Christian)
Barrister Boluwaji Kunlere (Christian)
Dr. O. M. Ekennia (Christian)
Mrs. Eme Ekaette (Christian)
Mrs. N. Nwabueze (Christian)
Alh. N. Gambo (Muslim)
Hajia Tome Ibrahim (Muslim)
Alh. Aliyu Shika (Muslim)
Alh. Mohammed Azare (Muslim)

ARMED FORCES  
The Muslim cleansing phenomenon in the army was one of the first hurriedly conceived and executed plot in the Islamphobia project of the Obasanjo administration in his first term.

He knew that there was a preponderance of political soldiers among the Muslims and so came out with a policy of retiring all soldiers who had held political offices. Due to the frustration of all Nigerians during the military interregnum, many Nigerians including the Muslims applauded the move oblivious of the fact that it was a secretarian agenda concocted to flush Muslims away from the Armed Forces.

It was a Christian Baptist President who was giving Muslims the baptism of fire. Initially all the service chiefs were Christians except Alhaji Tafa Balogun the erstwhile police chief who had been used and dumped into the dust bin of history.

So today now the chief of Army Staff, chief of Naval Staff, Air Force and Police are all Christian. Every Sunday, the president’s service at the Aso rock chapel is beamed live on NTA Network free of charge. No Muslim president had ever shown live on television his worship at National Mosque. This is injustice of the highest order being perpetrated by our born again President.

THE CONFAB
With the statistics of the Christianisation project the composition of the Confab is another deliberate attempt to give the Christians a clear edge in its lopsidedness against the Muslims. Let us look at the list and see how it was tilted in favour of Christendom.

Out of the 393 members, 233 are Christians and 160 are Muslims. Christians therefore have 73 more members than Muslims. Among the members nominated by the President there are 19 Muslims and 38 Christians, which means 70% are Christians and 30% Muslims.  

Not a single Muslim from the South-East or South-South was found appointable by the president,whereas there are Christians appointed from Muslim dominated areas of Gombe, Kaduna and Borno.

Is it not mindboggling that in order to do some so-called balancing, the president appointed an 80 year old man, Alh. Sule Katagum as deputy chairman and one Mr. Arikawe another Christian from Ondo State as deputy Secretary. It therefore means that out of 4 principal officers of the confab 3 are Christians and only one- an octogenarian is Muslim.  

In the whole North it is unthinkable that the president can not find a Muslim with the capability of being the Secretary of the Confab and the whole of the South-South he can not find a Muslim who can be made the chairman of the Confab.

GRAND DESIGN AGAINST ISLAM
From the grapevine, we have heard that some foreign powers have a secret pact with President Obasanjo that no Muslim should ever rule Nigeria again.

Part of the plan is to give the impression that Muslims are in the minority in Nigeria and therefore should not lord it over the Christian majority. With the Christians occupying strategic positions in the country and Christians being majority in the Confab it would go a long to give the impression that Christians are in the majority.

That is why we were not surprised when the secretary of Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), Northern State wing Elder Saidu Dogo as reported in the Sun News Paper of 21-February 2005 said that the composition of the confab is a reflection of the Christian majority of the country. We are watching and waiting to see how the political process will be manipulated to allow for a Christian president come 2007 .

OUR LINE OF ACTION
It would be fool hardy to expose all our plans to restore the image of the Muslim Ummah and confront this hydra headedly stubborn President in a press conference like this.However some of our constitutional and extra constitutional approach would be unraveled here.

Firstly, we appeal to the Sultan of Sokoto, His Eminence Alhaji Muhammadu Maccido, who is the leader of the Muslim Ummah in Nigeria to call on all the Muslim members at the confab to withdraw if within one week the lopsidedness in the composition of members and leadership of the confab is not redressed by the President.

Secondly, we shall form a formidable vanguard that would go to the grassroots to sensitise the Muslims on the goings on as regard the grand design to perpetually reduce the Muslims to flotsam and jetsam of the Nigerian society.

Thirdly, we shall constitute a powerful prayer group that will from next week continuously pray for victory of the Muslims over the surreptitious attempt by the undisguised enemies to undermine the interest of the noble religion.

As some interest groups in Nigeria are planning their own confab, if the Muslims in the present confab refuse to withdraw, and the lopsidedness against Islamic interest is not redressed we would Insha Allah convoke a Muslim confab to chart out a course of action both short-term and long- term against the annihilation of Islam from the country.

CONCLUSION
It is obvious even to the blind that Obasanjo is perpetrating this religious injustice in order to create anarchy, chaos and religious upheaval so that 2007 would not be a reality and he would have the excuse to carry out his ambition to tenaciously remain in office.

The committed Muslim would fight this with the last blood in their veins. Is it not better to die than to be made a slave or play the second fiddle or worst be made a second class citizen in your own country.

It is a tragedy of no mean dimension that a man who all Nigerians thought would be a father figure like Mahatma Ghandi of India has become a terror, a pseudo democrat and a despotic ruler bent on destroying the legacy of the Founding Fathers of this potentially great nation.

Let me state unabashedly and without the list fear of being contradicted that there is no problem between the Muslims and the Christians of this country. This became pelucidly clear when Christians fully aware of the Muslim-Muslim ticket still voted overwhelmingly for Alhaji Moshood Abiola during the June12, 1993 election. It is the politicians and Obasanjo in particular who always employs religion as a means of achieving his political goals irrespective of the bloodletting that comes in the wake of such manipulation.

It is cynical in the extreme to sacrifice the unity of this great country in order to generate sectarian support for a bankrupt regime. Muslims are becoming endanger species if we do not act fast. It will get to the stage where you would have to hide your Islamic identity or convert to Christianity outrightly before you can get your legitimate rights acknowledged in Nigeria.

In Sha Allah, this country will survive and the enemies of peace shamed.
Is’haq Kunle Sanni

Acting Coordinator
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on March 14, 2005, 08:31:51 PM
We are in real trouble if this is how we want to see nigeria - as a crhistian vs muslim country.  What amazes me is that each time we in the north point at christian appointments in OBJ's government we do not want to mention the profile of appointments in nigeria from 1960-1999, why is that?  I think we should start there and answer wether there has been any injustices, then we should find a way of apologising for them and then find a way of introducing checks and balances that will ensure that these injustices do not repeat themself.

What in essence are these people saying, we should start making appointments in nigeria on the basis of religion in addition to ethnicity?  Does that not sound ridiculus to them?  Has any one actually sat to think carefully of the political implications?  Based on some of what is being said we then should have in each state 2 governors (1 christain 1 muslim), 2 presidents and 2 vp's, 2 senate representatives from every senatorial district etc.  This will ensure that while ethnicity is covered religion is also covered, then what do we really have?  Then after 15-20 years traditionalists will say they have been oppressed in appointments etc in nigeria and demand to be represented, then we will have 3 of every appointment. Hmm that is interesting.

Quote
In Sha Allah, this country will survive and the enemies of peace shamed.

I like the ending very much, so why all the fuss?  This shows even the press conference was unnecessary.  So it is not about what anyone says or does, it is all about what God does case closed, ladies and gentlement of the media sorry for wasting your time.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: alhaji_aminu on March 15, 2005, 05:50:59 PM
Salam
When will mallamt stop confusing issues in this forum. Why is it hard for his to see that Nigeria, is indeed, a christian-muslim country.

His grouse with this issue is not in disputing the facts of the case, which are patently obvious, but on the premise that highlighting this issue is divisive and inimical to the growth of this nation. I think otherwise. The need, as expressed by muslims, to be represented in all facets of governance of this country is informed by the peculiar realities of modern Nigeria. It has always been so.

The fact is, we as muslims think a non-muslim will not do justice to us when entrusted with position of authority. Christian also feel the same way and I dont blame them. Why do we say this? Because Obasanjo, since he was forced on the people against their wishes, has done things like: threatning muslims from implementing the shariah, dismissing, in a wholescale manner, military officers simply because of their religious affiliation, underfunding and sabotaging those ventures from which muslims will benefit, limiting the input of muslims in decision making etc.
Not to forget what Aguyi Ironsi did in the form of the unification decree in 1966.

Ordinarily, it should not matter who the president is as long as he will discharge his responsibilities creditably, fairly and judiciously. But, because the realities in Nigeria have meant, a muslim favors muslims and a christian favors a xtian, a compromise ought to be reached through which no group will feel sidelined. The siege mentality, which many groups in Nigeria feel, can be mitigated by confidence building measures like including all shades of opinion in the governing the nation. Obsanjo doesn't believe this and that is why muslims are grumbling.

Mallamt asks, "should [we] start making appointments in nigeria on the basis of religion in addition to ethnicity?". The answer is sadly yes. Nigeria is a multi-ethnic-multi-religious state and to effectively run the nation, there has to be a convergence of opinion, which can only be reached by incorporating the opinions of different group.
Mallamt should note that the trick for peace in Lebanon, Ghana, Iraq, India and many other heterogenous nations has been the effective management of power sharing. For an example closer here at home, Mallamt should appreciate the suppression o discontent in the part of southern Zaria folks when the position of the Deputy governor was zone to them.

I will boldly submit that, if the concept of power sharing is what is needed for Nigeria to achieve ,the badly needed, political stability, then I am wholeheartedly for it.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on March 15, 2005, 08:30:24 PM
I am not sure why myadudu is saying I am confusing issues.  Firstly I never said or gave an impression that nigeria is not a muslim/christian country what I raised was the fact that we are trying to make things a christian vs muslim issue and that is where the problem is.

Myadudu wrote
Quote
The fact is, we as muslims think a non-muslim will not do justice to us when entrusted with position of authority. Christian also feel the same way and I dont blame them.
This is the kind of statements that makes non muslims get angry.  How many muslim leaders have ruled nigeria?  We have had about 7 muslim leaders out of a total of about 11 diferent leaders in nigeria and the seven account for about 26 years out of around 44 years of the existence of nigeria, throughout these governments religion was not raised as an issue as it is being raised today why.  Do you believe that there were no injustices then to non muslims that was why they were quiet or do you think that because they were quite about it they were stupid?  I believe myadudu's statement is very arrogant and he owes non muslims that visit this site an appology!  For 26 years out of 44 years non muslims have not said a word on religious oppression/appointments.

All of a sudden now a new concept is being introduced into our polity called the "realities in Nigeria", when did this reality start from 1999?

I must make myself clear, I am not saying that OBJ has or has not appointed more christains than muslims, nor am I saying it is right to use religion to oppress any one group.  As it is a traditionalists (of which we have quite a number in nigeria) would say both muslims and christians have oppressed them.  What is paramount is that each group is able to express themselves and practise their beliefs in any part of the country as long as it is within legal boundaries, whitout hinderance.  The creation of all these classes of nigerians will not take the country anywhere, some of the questions that we will be raising by introducing a religion factor is that does being a christian from kano make a kano indigene any less from kano? or does being a muslim from enugu make the enugu citizen any less from enugu?

We must understand that when the tyre of a car goes flat we do not create a fifth wheel on the car, we take the tyre out examine it find the hole patch it or even replace the tube.  But the wheel is never taken out completely nor is a fifth wheel introduced on the car.  What in essence I am saying is what I have always said, we must first look back into our history what injustices and lopsided appointments based on religion have taken place, what is taking place today?  has there been any injustices due to these lopsided appointments or have all peoples been treated fairly despite these lopsided appointments?  what are the checks and balances we can introduce that will ensure that lopsided appointments must not equal injustice?  These are some of the questions that must be asked rather than complain there are more christians or muslims in a government, so what?  How does that infringe on peoples rights?
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: alhaji_aminu on March 15, 2005, 09:33:13 PM
Salam

I wish mallamt and others like him will realise that the emergence of military leaders in Nigeria, with the exception of the Gowon's, was never as a result of a collective decision by Muslims (or northerners for that matter). When this issue of the military being it's own, not the muslim, constituency is  factored out of the equation, it will seen that of the 6+4+5 years Nigeria practiced democracy, only 11 of them were headed by Muslims.  So the talk of many muslim heads of state should not matter because it is an aberration.

I sincerelyy wish I owe non-muslims an apology by making the comments I made. Because in that situation, I would know that I have erred by suggesting 1) Muslims need other muslims to protect their interests and 2) that what Obasanjo is doing has the likelihood of creating a wider gap between muslims and christians. And for mallamt to say, For 26 years out of 44 years non muslims have not said a word on religious oppression/appointments. is  disingenuous.  I will only remind mallamt of people like  Dan Suleiman, TY Danjuma, Solomon Lar, Zamani Lekwot , Awolowo, Chris Alli, and the Christian Association of Nigeria in the late eighties.

Mallamt has raised the issue of the rights and citizenship of minorities in Nigeria ( a non-muslim living in Kano for example) . My answer is simple; he has as much right as he is granted under the 1999 constitution.

....... to be continued.
Title: Moslem v Christian
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on March 16, 2005, 01:23:24 AM
Because the people who made the constitution of Nigeria were aware of the dangers of religious differences in Nigeria they wisely made the constitution a secular (ie non-religious)constitution. This was to ensure that all citizens could have exactly the same rights under the law and that they would not be forced to submit to laws based on a religion to which they did not subscribe. This gave Moslems, Christians and those of no religion exactly the same rights as is the case in all well ordered societies.
The attempt to introduce Sharia law is a breech of this constitution. To introduce Sharia law legally you would have to either change the constitution or break Nigeria up and give the different parts their own constitutions.
Those who would wish to introduce Sharia law should be aware that these are the proper options to be considered.
Before I get enraged replies on this site please note that I have passed no opinion on the merits or otherwise of Sharia law.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: mallamt on March 16, 2005, 01:50:32 PM
Before myadudu continues let me make some things clear with respect to his comment on portions of my posting.  Today in 2005 we are being told that military leadership in nigeria even though most were led by muslims, were not a result of a collective decision of muslims.  That is okay, so is one then to deduce that the other leaders were a result of a collective decision of muslims or can one say that it is the only muslims that should be allowed to decide the leadership in nigeria?  Furthermore, although the the leadership refered to by myadudu that were not a result of a muslim decision, it is okay for muslims to benifit and enjoy the spoils of such leaderships right (for instance in appointments)?  Can we really say there is an aberration? No sir it is the price we have to pay, you know it is like young white south africans who say they were not the apartheid enforces in south africa so why should you accuse them or present day white south africans of apartheid or the whites in europe and america who say they have nothing to do with slavery why do you keep holding it against them or why should they even appologise for it.

Myadudu appeared to have misunderstood my point on the kano citizen who is a christain (non muslim).  I am not talking of a resident of kano here I am talking of a kano citizen whoes village is in kano state, not just a person leaving in kano.  But a person whose roots are in kano but is a christain, does his being a christain from kano make him any less from kano?
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: kilishi on March 16, 2005, 10:11:20 PM
well it seems the debate is onesided as well.what i mean no woman is responding,let me bail the men out before the cry of marginalisation from the women.To me the blame is on the northern leaders or the so called elites,if they are not interested in thier own welfare instead of the masses,then we will not be molested,sidelined or even the cleanse upp ,why i said so is that they always kept us misinformed while when ever the have the chance to say out thiwer mind they will only look for a mean to sustain themselves,and before you hear them complain then it means they are out of govt,most of the time when they are in a position they will maintain a sealed lip,when they were shown a way out that time hell will let loose,they dont have sincerity of purporse,they were the same set of people that let our educational system detoriate,our health care service in shamble,and also the youht with nothing to do,if they are true to thier course then by now we would have some vibrant and feraless youthj to clamour for our right,but no they always want patronage in govt,any govt in power must go with them,i dont want call names but how many of them served in govt since independence?and how many times do they relent on thier effort to be recognised by the govt,so if now the govt of the day is filling the vacancy with people from a particular religion or tribe then is the handywork of our so called northern leaders,if they give opportunity for the younger generation to get chance,experience an d recognition then this would not have happen.
Title: Recognise the real problem.
Post by: Dave_McEwan_Hill on March 16, 2005, 10:19:03 PM
Well said, Kilishi. The North has often been let down by its leaders who have shown very little concern for the mass of the people. Many of them been more concerned about keeping power to themselves and enriching themselves. It suits the elites very well to allow education of the masses to deteriorate. It also suits them well to have people arguing about religion when they should be concerned about the behaviour of Government and the honesty of the leaders.
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: kilishi on March 17, 2005, 06:29:05 PM
It seems some people wants to put sentiments to becloud their sense of judgement,somebody was reading my message and started complaining why should I exposed us to the world since I am writing in a place where everybody could get access to,  but he quite agree with my points his only quarrel is why should I wash away  arewa?s dirty linen in public?what comes to my mind was that if we continue to hide from the truth and continue to give cover to the exploitation of few, which type of life do we wants for our children ,grand children and even our own brothers and sisters, those people we are trying to protect in the next fifty years will not be able to make any impact on our existence, if we didn?t let them know our grievances against them then we are finished, marginalisation will not only mean sidelining us in govt appointments but we will as welll be regarded as not Nigerians, a different identity will be given to us, and if we are not carefull we have to work for the so called masters to get even electriciyty in our own locality.
    Our elders understand one language which is power,and even now they are loosing that, but instead of them to wake up from their deep slumber they continue pursuing shadows, for how long please lets be realistic lets observe our representatives in the legislative chambers and measure the impacts they made on us as people ,I can recall aqn incident that happened recently in the national assembly about ecological fund,the money was meant to curb the scourgre of the atlantic ocean ,bar beach precisely, the money allocated was not upto one third of the money required,which means it will not be even enogh to start the work,so a motion was moved that instead of  wasting the money why not divert it to something else,may be water or desert encroachment,the members from south west vehemently opposed and even try to boycott the session they said even if the money weas one tenth it should be used for what it was meant for,and at the end they got their way,what I want to point out is their concern and doggedness towards achieving their aims, but always our members do compromise our own well being for small token, I got a brother in the national assembly and one day we have a course to discuss some issues I asked him why are they not pushing the interest of their people at the national level, because any time they talked and raised dust it be about certain incentives meant to them personally, and his answer was the system doesn?t give them enough room to do so, I asked my self are they not responsible for changing the system?what about the promise made to poor people that troop out to elect them? Then if they cant change the system what are they doing their?what is their use after all,  and if they at the helms of affairs cant change the system then what will happen to the masses outside there?  Kai turanci na ya kare,my English don finish make stop wooo, but one thing is that don?t blame me and think I am against arewa, wallahi those that know me sunsan na?f kowa kabilanci, in naga ana fada da bahushe musulmi da kuma wani sai nayi kokarin taimakawa nawa tukunna koda kuwa shine bashi da gaskiya,to amma duk wannna ba zai taimaka mana ba in ba mun samu yanci da kuma kare mutuncin mu ba,akwai wani taro da na ga anyi ?yan kudu suke nuna koda zasu yi shekaru hamsin basa zuwa makaranta to da kyar ?yan arewa su isko su ta fanning ilmi, haka a taron kasa da akeyi akwai wanda ya tashi ya fadi irin yadda ilmi ya zama abin tausayi a arewa amma nan da nan wani ya maida martani cewa ba kawai arewa bane har da sauran bangarori,don haka in har za a gyara ilmi ba a arewa kawai za a gara ba sai dai kasar baki daya,zan zo da wani batu kan maganr taron kasa nan gaba kadan .
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: kilishi on March 17, 2005, 06:29:13 PM
It seems some people wants to put sentiments to becloud their sense of judgement,somebody was reading my message and started complaining why should I exposed us to the world since I am writing in a place where everybody could get access to,  but he quite agree with my points his only quarrel is why should I wash away  arewa?s dirty linen in public?what comes to my mind was that if we continue to hide from the truth and continue to give cover to the exploitation of few, which type of life do we wants for our children ,grand children and even our own brothers and sisters, those people we are trying to protect in the next fifty years will not be able to make any impact on our existence, if we didn?t let them know our grievances against them then we are finished, marginalisation will not only mean sidelining us in govt appointments but we will as welll be regarded as not Nigerians, a different identity will be given to us, and if we are not carefull we have to work for the so called masters to get even electriciyty in our own locality.
    Our elders understand one language which is power,and even now they are loosing that, but instead of them to wake up from their deep slumber they continue pursuing shadows, for how long please lets be realistic lets observe our representatives in the legislative chambers and measure the impacts they made on us as people ,I can recall aqn incident that happened recently in the national assembly about ecological fund,the money was meant to curb the scourgre of the atlantic ocean ,bar beach precisely, the money allocated was not upto one third of the money required,which means it will not be even enogh to start the work,so a motion was moved that instead of  wasting the money why not divert it to something else,may be water or desert encroachment,the members from south west vehemently opposed and even try to boycott the session they said even if the money weas one tenth it should be used for what it was meant for,and at the end they got their way,what I want to point out is their concern and doggedness towards achieving their aims, but always our members do compromise our own well being for small token, I got a brother in the national assembly and one day we have a course to discuss some issues I asked him why are they not pushing the interest of their people at the national level, because any time they talked and raised dust it be about certain incentives meant to them personally, and his answer was the system doesn?t give them enough room to do so, I asked my self are they not responsible for changing the system?what about the promise made to poor people that troop out to elect them? Then if they cant change the system what are they doing their?what is their use after all,  and if they at the helms of affairs cant change the system then what will happen to the masses outside there?  Kai turanci na ya kare,my English don finish make stop wooo, but one thing is that don?t blame me and think I am against arewa, wallahi those that know me sunsan na?f kowa kabilanci, in naga ana fada da bahushe musulmi da kuma wani sai nayi kokarin taimakawa nawa tukunna koda kuwa shine bashi da gaskiya,to amma duk wannna ba zai taimaka mana ba in ba mun samu yanci da kuma kare mutuncin mu ba,akwai wani taro da na ga anyi ?yan kudu suke nuna koda zasu yi shekaru hamsin basa zuwa makaranta to da kyar ?yan arewa su isko su ta fanning ilmi, haka a taron kasa da akeyi akwai wanda ya tashi ya fadi irin yadda ilmi ya zama abin tausayi a arewa amma nan da nan wani ya maida martani cewa ba kawai arewa bane har da sauran bangarori,don haka in har za a gyara ilmi ba a arewa kawai za a gara ba sai dai kasar baki daya,zan zo da wani batu kan maganr taron kasa nan gaba kadan .
Title: Is Obasanjo Biased Against Islam?
Post by: Nuruddeen on March 17, 2005, 09:55:13 PM
You see EMTL, Obasanjo is really out to betray justice. This "president" is no respecter of law. All he does is Yorubanisation of Nigeria. He has succeeded in creating anarchy and fear at all angles. His confab is just a Christianised affair. Period!