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General => General Board => Topic started by: sdanyaro on December 15, 2005, 09:40:49 PM

Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: sdanyaro on December 15, 2005, 09:40:49 PM
Assalamu alaikum;

I have notice over the last couple of days, an increasing tension between Hisbah & 'YanDaba on one side, and the 'Yan Acaba (Commercial Motorcyclists)
 on the other side. Some of the 'Yan Acaba are resisting the enforcement of a ban on conveyance of female on motorcycles which started last Monday...

I am however supprised as the apparent "cooperation" between the Hisbah and the 'Yan Daba in this case...

Where does the Police stand on this one?
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: alhaji_aminu on December 16, 2005, 02:47:10 AM
Salam

I read about this in the papers too and I am sorry to say, the Hisba- and by extension, the govt, is at fault here. I am fully aware of the law enacted in the state legislature through which the Hisba derive their power to insist that yan-achaba don't ferry women to and fro.

But, but, I sincerely think unless govt provides an alternative means of transportating the millions of poor women, who, by the way would rather not use Achaba if given the chance, there is no way this law will hold because many people will lack mobility which will further entrench the endemic poverty we are all witnessing in the city.

The solution too is a hard one. One, the govt can 'ci magani' and force upon the yan-achaba it's might in enforcing the law but this will obviously do no good as everyone knows, yan achaba can raise hell at a moment's notice when they feel slighted. Else, the govt could buy (as they have "started") buses that will convey women, kids and families. This, however, will cost billions and I doubt if govt has the means to see it through.

So what should be done? I say the law should be postponed in the mean time until such a point where all, especially the women being protected, feel the govt has provided enough buses to take care of the situation.

The simplest solution I could think of might as well be the most controversial. I mean, can't govt get some women to become "yar achaba" ko kuma "yar tasi" too? (I have heard that there are taxi drivers in Iran so this might not be that outlandish).
It is said, after all, that, "what a man can do, a woman can do better". I tend to believe this is true (not absolutely though- a little bit of fuzzy logic here, ehn?).

Allah dai ya sawwake!
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: sdanyaro on December 17, 2005, 12:45:33 AM
alhaji_aminu,

A lot of "A Daidaita Sahu" 's Motorcycles and Automobiles were destroyed by the 'Yan a cabas

It seems to me that it is the females that were more determined... I saw one lady that refused to disembark from the Motorcycle and was giving the Hisbah a very hard time.
It also seems to me that most of the females that do want to flex their muscle regarding this issue, look like they are from the Kano and its environment not "Baki" from other parts of Nigeria.

Usually, agents of the government (Local or State) are the ones that gave out most of the motorcycles. They always give out Motorcycles, but hardly give out Educational Scholarships.

I also think that there are just way too many Motorcycles in Kano, where traffic laws are generally not obeyed and traffic infrastructure is inadequate for the number of motorcycles and automobiles on the roads...
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: _Waziri_ on December 18, 2005, 12:48:50 PM
Quote from: "sdanyaro"
Usually, agents of the government (Local or State) are the ones that gave out most of the motorcycles. They always give out Motorcycles, but hardly give out Educational Scholarships.


That is just that! Had they been empowering the youths to be able to maximally contain the challenges of the 21st century there wouldn't be enough people to complain about this half-thought-out laws cos many will own a car or a motorcycle to carry there sisters and wives around town.

It is like the Shari'a implementation commitees need to go back to drawing boards but I am sorry to say most of us are very poor strategists in this regard. It makes me weep endlessly. I ask those nagging questions: Why WE?? always.
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: sdanyaro on December 18, 2005, 10:07:21 PM
_Waziri_

What did the law says about a motorcyclist carrying their sisters and wives around town?

What is the penalty or penalties of breaking this law?

What criteria should be used by the Hisba on the spot, to verify that the female being carried by the motorcyclist are their sisters and or wives?

.... having the law is one thing, but implementation of the law is another thing ?

Do you think that this law is implementable?
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: bakangizo on December 19, 2005, 01:23:32 PM
I see nothing wrong in stopping 'Yan Achabas rom carrying women around. Any self respecting person would not like to see his/her sister/mother/wife  on these bikes, driven by semi-concuous men usually under the influence of marijuana and/or 'sholusho'. The govt has provided alternative means of transportation for ladies in the form of hundred of  buses and tri-cycles. They may not be enough but I learnt plans were already concluded to buy more. I commend the state govt. for having the gut to at least confront the 'yan achabas head-on. They have recently constituted themselves unto a dangerous phenomenom, killing and maiming at 'will' on a daily basis. Most states govts in the country would willing ban them. No one is safe from them; from motorists to pedestrians. I really hope this is the first step towards regulating/checking their excesses.
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: mallamt on December 19, 2005, 05:59:41 PM
The use of achabas by people is not by choice but out of necessity.  I think I agree with must writers on the subject and more so with _waziri_ when he says we lack any sense of strategic thinking.  I will as a simple question what makes the use of achaba a crime for women and not a crime for men?  will a strategy of flooding the metropolise with alternative transportation system not work better?  It is highly concievable that should there be an effective alternative public transport system people (both men and women) will not take achaba but will use the alternative transport sytem, we will then not even need to pass a law against the use of achaba by women.  It is a pity that we are spending precious time legislating for women not riding achabas while not legislating for compulsary schooling for children and banning begging, banning child labour in the form of children who spend their days on the streets of kano selling goods instead of being at school, protection of the girl child who is forced into marriage at the age of 12 or 13 etc.  We spend our time being worried about adult women who out of desperation have to use acahbas in pursing their livelehoods for themselves and their families. Yet still we will have folks who will refuse to even consider these issues even the govt that should have provided alternative transport systems will be pointing fingers and wanting to haras and arrest the unfortunate women.  Well it will get to a point one day when the centre can not hold may God help us!!  We have a completely warp sense of priorities and only God can help us
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: neozizo on December 19, 2005, 08:12:57 PM
I also agree that the ruling on women and motocycles,though to a certain extent good, a typical example of misplaced and ill planned priority.
Most women as well as men patronize achabas unwillingly but only as a result of its neccessity.
Untill when a relable and efficient alternative is made available nd abundant i think MALLAM and his legislators should temporarily shelf the law and concentrate on reducing the level of childlabor and street begging by our people.
Last time i was in Kano i was pleasently surprised to see some adai-data sahu trycyles and buses,please what has become of them?
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: sdanyaro on December 19, 2005, 10:01:35 PM
Bakan~Gizo & zizo

What you say is right about the ?Yan acabas in Kano? I agree with you whole heartily that to me they constitute a nuisance on the streets, roads and ?Lungunan? Kano. Somebody told me that there are in excess of one million registered motorcycles in Kano. Most of these ?Yan Acabas are not from Kano.

Again a lot of these motorcycles are given out free by Local and State Government Agents and agencies. What to do about this?

There are many parts (Lungunan) of Kano that even the ?A Daidaita Sahu? Supplied Tricycles  can not drive in out of? thanks to the effective town planning that is only seems interested in Curve-outs and Shops. What to do about this?

These ?A Daidaita Sahu? Supplied Tricycles and Automobiles are less than a year now. I really doubt very much that they will all be in an operative condition in the next 2 to 3 years from now. This is because of the government tract record in the area of maintenance and continuity of projects such as these. What to do about this?


mallamt
The issue of ?Yan Acaba and that of begging on the streets and lungunan Kano are related even if not directly. At least on one point is the fact that the majority of begging being done in Kano has increased drastically because of the Begging-friendly policies of Kano. Likewise the ?Yan Acaba-friendly activities or the lack of regulations of the ?Yan Acabas in Kano has made Kano to be both Beggars and ?yan Acaba Magnet among many other attraction to Kano. When you want to start a begging or Acaba businesses, Kano is the destination of choice for all, from all over the Country and other countries in West Africa.

Quote
Well it will get to a point one day when the centre can not hold may God help us!! We have a completely warp sense of priorities and only God can help us

I think we are tittering on the barge of  Anarchy!
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: alhaji_aminu on December 20, 2005, 07:16:07 AM
Salam

It is amazing to know that there is upwards of 1 million motorcycles in Kano. One can only imagine the untold damage they are wreaking by way of polluting the environment with all its attendant consequences. The main problem with motorcyclist today, I think, is less with the trade of achaba as it is with the practitioners.

The law banning yan achaba carrying women is, in my opinion, a law that doesn't conform to the exigencies of modern day Kano. That is to say govt hasn't 'dotted all tees' required for the smooth implementation of this law before bringing it into force.  I always find the gradual prohibition of alcohol in Islam a very good example of managing profound issues in the society like Kano is wishing to. But sadly, Kano did too little too late.

Lastly, the question that ought to be asked is how did this menace start and why? The answer is simple: Poverty. And like Waziri said, if govt has lived up to its resposibility, then this dangerous problem wouldn't have arisen.
To answer Waziri's question of why us, I will simply point him to our schools.....
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: bakangizo on December 20, 2005, 01:33:50 PM
I still believe the ban on carrying women on achaba is right. I agree that achaba was initially borne out poverty and unemployment. Not anymore. You find out that these bikes are shipped to Kano in thousands on a daily basis. Due to sheer laziness of mallam bahaushe, the simplest business now is achaba. You don't need any creativity or hard work. Just acquire one. Some of these bikes cost up to N100,000.00. You can set up a good biz with that. It is also the easiest form of gift by politicians now.

It is very wrong to allow a dangerous situation to continue just 'cos "there's unemployment and the situation is created by succesive govts". You can't allow these people to continue to operate the way they like.

If I may ask, how do women (and men)  transport themselves before the advent of achaba? Why is it now a basic necessity  that women (or men) cannot survive without?

I want to remind people that before this ban, the govt made sure that an alternative (adaidata sahu tricycles & buses) was provided for women. They may not be enough now but at least that shows it was not a haphazard or thoughless law.
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: mlbash on December 21, 2005, 06:54:06 PM
Quote from: "mallamt"
The use of achabas by people is not by choice but out of necessity.  I think I agree with must writers on the subject and more so with _waziri_ when he says we lack any sense of strategic thinking.  I will as a simple question what makes the use of achaba a crime for women and not a crime for men?  will a strategy of flooding the metropolise with alternative transportation system not work better?  It is highly concievable that should there be an effective alternative public transport system people (both men and women) will not take achaba but will use the alternative transport sytem, we will then not even need to pass a law against the use of achaba by women.  It is a pity that we are spending precious time legislating for women not riding achabas while not legislating for compulsary schooling for children and banning begging, banning child labour in the form of children who spend their days on the streets of kano selling goods instead of being at school, protection of the girl child who is forced into marriage at the age of 12 or 13 etc.  We spend our time being worried about adult women who out of desperation have to use acahbas in pursing their livelehoods for themselves and their families. Yet still we will have folks who will refuse to even consider these issues even the govt that should have provided alternative transport systems will be pointing fingers and wanting to haras and arrest the unfortunate women.  Well it will get to a point one day when the centre can not hold may God help us!!  We have a completely warp sense of priorities and only God can help us


 i'll rather say all those that base their argument on the basis of 'lalura' are baseless! the key point here is that before the proliferation of the achabas, how do they transport themselves? i mean the ladies! so there is no any excuse whatsoever,except may be 'san rai'
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: mallamt on December 21, 2005, 07:40:15 PM
mlbash

what are you really saying?  before achabas the public transportation system was much better than it is now!!! in other words mlbash before achabas there was a public transport system that could be used and pople had no need for achabas.  Achabas in nigeria (they are present in all states of the federation) are as a result of very poor and most times very dangerous public transport system (we may even say a non existant public transport system).  I do not know how many people in the forum remember kanoline (I hope I am correct with the name) I think it was established during the time of the late Audu Bako or just after him, which was one of the best public transport system in nigeria in its time.
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: bakangizo on December 22, 2005, 08:41:08 AM
Quote from: "mallamt"
mlbash
what are you really saying?  before achabas the public transportation system was much better than it is now!!! in other words mlbash before achabas there was a public transport system that could be used and pople had no need for achabas...

What was the public transportation system then that do not exixt now? :roll:  Were people not using buses and taxis before? Don't we have them now? Get your fact straight, pls. Let me re-iterate what mlbash said: 'Son rai ne kawai na mutane'. Before achaba we were transporting ourselves in and around the metropolis in buses and taxis, which we still have in their thousands. In fact, most bus and taxi drivers will tell you 'ana karancin fasinjoji domin kowa ya koma hawa achaba' Tell me why it is now a necessity of life that we must use achaba.

 
mallamt wrote:
___________________________________________________________
We have a completely warp sense of priorities and only God can help us
____________________________________________________________

Wato hana mata hawa achaba don kare mutuncin su yadda addini ya tanadar ya zama 'warped sense of priority' ? Careful with such utterances, :wink:
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: mallamt on December 22, 2005, 11:46:38 AM
Quote
Wato hana mata hawa achaba don kare mutuncin su yadda addini ya tanadar ya zama 'warped sense of priority' ? Careful with such utterances,
First there is nothing to be careful about!!! I still maintain it we have a warped sense of priority.  By the way kafi matayen nan son kansu ne? idon za su shiga gari kan achaba bayan anada motochin hawa su suka giyo ina ruwan ka? Ka dubi naka kawai ka tabatar chewa kai baka zubar da mutuncin ka ba!!!!

Public transport with a level of state interest is obviously completely different from that ran by private enterprise!!!  Private sector will run purely on commercial grounds while a public sector will be abit more socially responsive! What you call "several buses and taxis" run only in areas that they will be profit and charge their rates to make a route commercially viable (even if the distance does not justify the amount) not necessarily to render a "social" service.  Now when the rates are out of reach of people or the system is not effective (have you tried to count how many stops they make between two point) or their decision to only ply certain roads or routes because the other road is not tarred or the traffic to much etct (achaba will take you any where irrespective of road conditions or traffic).  Now when we talk public transport system we talk about city buses or taxis that have to cover routes and charge a decent and affordable rate not driven by excessive profits (as you seen with the same taxis and buses you mentioned) for the ordinary masses.  This will even force govt ro repair and upgrade roads so that they can be plyed.
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: bakangizo on December 22, 2005, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: "mallamt"
Quote

Public transport with a level of state interest is obviously completely different from that ran by private enterprise!!!  Private sector will run purely on commercial grounds while a public sector will... blah blah blah...

Fine. Then tell me the "Public transport system", ran by the govt in those times you were referring to, and which covers those places/areas the achabas took over now, and, again, which the present public and private transport refused to, cannot and/or fail to cover, which necessitates the use of achaba. Simple :!:

mallamt wrote
_____________________________________________________________
By the way kafi matayen nan son kansu ne? idon za su shiga gari kan achaba bayan anada motochin hawa su suka giyo ina ruwan ka? Ka dubi naka kawai ka tabatar chewa kai baka zubar da mutuncin ka ba!!!!
_____________________________________________________________


Cute! Something like:  "Well, the safety belt in vehicles protect only the owners. So what's govt's or anybody's business if people refuse to wear seat belts. After all it is their lives".
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: mallamt on December 22, 2005, 07:07:32 PM
Bakan~Gizo

are you implying that people just use achabas for the fun of it? they don't care for themselves they enjoy the scorcing sun on their backs and other climatic conditions, they love the danger etc?  if not then what are you really trying to say let us move from the semantics or debate!!!!
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: sdanyaro on December 23, 2005, 02:04:15 AM
There is an article regarding this at this link http://kanoonline.com/mb/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=29
Banning mingling of heterogeneous sexes on commercial vehicles in Kano
by Abdul?Aziz Ahmad
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: bakangizo on December 23, 2005, 09:18:06 AM
Quote from: "mallamt"
Bakan~Gizo

are you implying that people just use achabas for the fun of it? they don't care for themselves they enjoy the scorcing sun on their backs and other climatic conditions, they love the danger etc?  if not then what are you really trying to say let us move from the semantics or debate!!!!

I refer you to the link posted by sdanyaro. The writer said everything, and more, about my points on the issue:

1.  What's the religious implication on the issue
2.   How come it is now a necessity of life to ride on Okada, a means of  transport that only came into existence in the '90s?
3.   Isn't it high time the dangerous menace and excessess of achaba is
      checked?

4.   Many a times we  sentimentally engage in acts that are detrimental  to us. We therefore need someone to keep us in line. Think of the "Seat Belt'  example.
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: mallamt on December 23, 2005, 01:36:47 PM
Bakan~Gizo

I think we do not have a difference in veiw of the danger and menace that achabas pose to the society.  far be from it I also subscribe to their elimination but we must also consider people when we do this.  For instance alternatives that are put in place can be rolled out gradually ie to say start with either specific routes or specific areas and either ban or limit achabas on those areas an you continue rolling out like that each time ensuring you have attained a critical mass in the area you intend to roll out in.

Now how come achabas are an absolute necessity you ask first look at costs then look at the routes they are able to ply and look at the speed or quickness with which you are able to get to your destination (thanks again to traffic holdups due to poor transport planning).  The other issue is that is are achabas unique to only kano? is it possible that the same or similar conditions gave rise to them in other cities in the country?  What has been the state (costs, condition, accesibility, swiftness in traffic and traffic conditions) public transport in kano and the rest of the country? Once you can answer some of these we will be able to understand where we have failed and the gap achabas are filling.  The fact that a system we feel is so dangerous that started only in the 90's can assume such a position in our society points to a problem in our system of transport planning.  (Look at the rate of corruption why is it such  national past time in nigeria? simple because no one does anything to those that partake in it infact society praises them and dorn them with chieftancy titles)

The seat belt example is a very good exaple that tells you what the role of govt is - to legislate and protect the lives and property of citizenry.  As you have correctly pointed out govt may legislate that all should wear safety belts in a car NOT A SECTION OF SOCIETY!! Nor do they (govt) ban cars because cars get involved in accidents!!  Govt legislates and provides the conditions (rules) that must be met before a car is operated on the roads.  In other words achabas as we know them may need legislation to make them safer for ALL CITIZENS OF KANO!!! this may take the form of them even having some kind of tuk tuk trailer or whatever, that is where govt role is, not in inhibiting enterprenuership or banning a section of society from riding on them, that does not solve the problem in that it does not take away the danger they pose!!
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: bakangizo on December 23, 2005, 04:24:07 PM
I see your point, but I think we are going round and round in circles. You said what made them necessary is the quickness they ferry us to work, ease and all the routes they ply. This is too convinient an excuse to  allow the achaba menace to continue unchecked. How it becomes necessary such that regulating or even outright banning (some States have toyed with that idea) of them will drastically affect our lives.  How do we get to work fast b4 achabas appeared? How do we access all those "achaba-monopolized" routes pre-achaba period? In any case, I will prefer to go to work late, and in one piece, then being maimed/killed on an achaba or by an achaba. Kindly visit our hospitals and obtain the daily statistics of  people killed/maimed by achaba. I tell you it is not worth it.

With regard to implementation of this achaba law, there was adequate publicity. The achaba units were adequately informed. And don't forget the govt tried to provide a fall back for women in the form of the tricycles.

Remember that with all the excellent road network of the FCT, Abuja, achabas have trooped there!. It took the determined intervention of the Minister to check the menace there. So it is not an exclusive issue of bad roads or traffic congestions. Or are there any "lungus" in Abuja that a taxi cannot access? :lol:  And we've not heard all these hulabaloo when they are banned there? And it has not stopped people from going to work early or women from reaching their destinations!

Lastly, I agree with you in saying the govt has neglected the transport sector for a long time. And we have formed the habit of relegating vital sectors of the polity to the background when it comes to policy making. Amma wallahi, yallabai, I don't mind the govt checking the excesses of achaba. With or without any legislation!
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: bakangizo on December 23, 2005, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: "mallamt"
Bakan~Gizo
In other words achabas as we know them may need legislation to make them safer for ALL CITIZENS OF KANO!!! this may take the form of them even having some kind of tuk tuk trailer or whatever, that is where govt role is, not in inhibiting enterprenuership or banning a section of society from riding on them, that does not solve the problem in that it does not take away the danger they pose!!


I see your grudge  is with banning women. This is in conformity with Islamic conjuction. We cannot be more logical than Allah who laid down the injuction.

And from what I read, the govt will soon come out with a new, whole sale  law regulating achaba activities, not only for carrying women, but on reckless/dangerous driving, overloading etc. Already a mobile court has been constituted to that effect.
Title: Heavy Tension in Kano - between Hisbah and 'Yan Acaba
Post by: mallamt on December 23, 2005, 05:57:37 PM
Bakan~Gizo

I suppose it is more convenient to dismiss what I have said as being "a grudge with the banning of women".  I think or believe that the difficulty you seem to be having here (in this particular case) is enforcing provisions of islamic law vis a viz protecting the life and property citizenry in terms peoples expectations of a govt irrespective of any religious leaning.  Now if you go by what has been said by everyone on this subject - you and I inclusive, you will see that we agree that acabas are a menace and danger to society and agree on their banning (however I believe we will think differently if they conduct themselves better and are safer means of transportation).  Should the govt play its role in legislating for what it should be doing and ensuring the proper conduct of achabas they will be safer in the first place, then they can be properly assigned or regulated to meet other requirements (islamic law) more easily.  the problem people are having with the current ban is that it is a diversionary tactics of people who do not want to face up to their responsibilities and want to hide behind islamic laws, the point is that govt must not be allowed to abdicate its responsibilities in the name of islamic law because islamic laws require them to uphold their responsibilities.  The people making these laws are not afected by the ban their siblings are riding in govt owned vehicles paid for by the tax payer, it is the common man (both men and women) that is suffering they make up the statistic you are talking about not just women.

It is good to see that govt is even coming out with a mobile court, but I think they must first set regulations that will make it possible to define achaba what it must entail and let standards be developed by the responsible civil servants for the classification of a vehicle as an achaba as well as the type of environments it should operate etc

Publicising a law does not mean you have provided the enabling tools or environment in other words it is neither her nor there and govt must move away from that system of law making.  You can not tell people to farm, farm or else they will go to jail and you do not provide them with access to farming tools, seedlings, land etc.  Where are they to get these? Should they then resort to stealing? will they not be commiting another offence?

Whatever we will say, there is a gap that achabas are filling we need to accept that and try and find out what gap that is and how it can be plugged.  I do not believe that the whole country is made up of cowboys who enjoy risking their limbs and lives on achabas and if not so why then do people keep using them? why do they appear profitable ventures? is that not a sign of them being very patronised? we need to find answers to these questions or else you ban them in one place they will crop up in another or reappear under a different guise.  So whether is is their speed, there ability to manuever in traffic or whatever we need to know why people really use achabas.