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General => General Board => Topic started by: Dan-Borno on May 14, 2009, 10:24:52 AM

Title: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Dan-Borno on May 14, 2009, 10:24:52 AM
happenings in recent times is making me change my former stand
on supporting shekarau as the next presidential flagbearer of ANPP
in the upcoming 2011 presidential election.  the allegation over the
gruesome murder of sheik ja'afar and other petty petty happenings
within the walls of kano is something to be looked at, not in the eyes
of opposition.

this morning, i was checking my favourite news webs, saharareporters
and read about how the government of shekarau disorganized and
frustrated the effort of our youngsters is also a matter of concern. 
the city people magazines plan to honour a young lady in her carrier
is not a crime, and i see no connection between fashion and the state
government.

government are supporsed to concentrate on providing people the needed
basic requirements of life, such as affordable and qualitative educations,
clean and pure water for both human and animal consumption, provision
of security to life and property, construction of both city and highway roads
and other necessary requirements.

if our government can not provide jobs to its citizens, then why are they
so eager to trample on young initiatives?  haba malam, ka gama da yan
wasan hausa, yanzu kuma ka dawo kan teloli ne?

http://www.saharareporters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2703:
power-show-how-gov-ibrahim-shekaru-wields-power-over-life-and-death-in-the-name-of-qshariaq&catid=42
:exclusive&Itemid=160 (http://www.saharareporters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2703:
power-show-how-gov-ibrahim-shekaru-wields-power-over-life-and-death-in-the-name-of-qshariaq&catid=42
:exclusive&Itemid=160)
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: gogannaka on May 14, 2009, 02:46:44 PM
LOL,
DB are you serious about taking saharareporters reports as basis for your support.
Saharareporters as far as i am concerned, are a riddle and jokes,online fun magazine.

Shekarau is bound to be blackmailed across the nation because of his intention to contest the presidency.
This is very common in politics and i wonder why such reports will affect your faith in him.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Dan-Borno on May 14, 2009, 05:19:46 PM
GGNK me kake fada ne? are telling me saharareporters report is fake
and i shouldnt take their stories? is every news a blackmail? this is our
problem in naija, anything we do is credited to something else.  even
the protest planned by NLC is viewed by PDP as witchhunting - imagine.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: EMTL on May 14, 2009, 07:24:26 PM
LOL,
Shekarau is bound to be blackmailed across the nation because of his intention to contest the presidency.

Assalamu alaikum,
Whatever... Shekarau is better than the lot. Allah (SWT) ya zaba mana na kwarai dama ita niima tana tare da hassada. Ana-mazuru-ana-shaho-......
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: gogannaka on May 15, 2009, 10:50:46 AM
DB that article is absolute RUBBISH.

Cheap blackmail. The only thing that saharareporters know(or think they know) how to do.
I just wasted my time reading rubbish.

Did you read this line?: "We even gathered that he has begun surreptitious moves to campaign for the highest post in the land in order to transfer his human rights abuses at the State level to the national level"

Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Muhsin on May 15, 2009, 05:29:33 PM
Salam,

Hmm. Ikon Allah: I, these, days find it practically hard and generally mind-deadening and boggling talking about Shekarau. Why? The pseudo-saint's being irresponsible is always manifesting itself. He's always becoming better than nothing. Kai...mutum mugun ice.

To a testifying degree, I won't wonder almost anything he's reported doing considering some of the conspicuous barbaric and dehumanizing actions he's perpetuating within Kano city. Mts. He's recently ranked amongst the governors who are busily touring the world in Sunday Trust. He's this and that... :o
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on May 15, 2009, 10:49:49 PM
I have seen the article. I have read a bit. It doesnt sound like rubbish GGNK. But besides that, what I am really interested in knowing about is if the next picture with the 'yan acaba's is Kano state as it is presently. Wallahi if that is Kano, then I think that is the most damaging indictment on Shekarau's governance not some petty petty things about fashion shows. To be quite frank, I am not surprised that Zainab was stopped. There have been a precedence before that. The only thing is the authorities should have informed her before hand that they were not allowing it so that she could have changed her venue to another state. Although I am not against fashion shows in general, I have seen a lot to know that there are a lot of ills behind the scenes. The fashion show industry based on Western standards of conduct as Zainab wants to emulate is not desirable. The problem is that once you set something in motion even with the best intentions, sooner or later, the side effects are going to enacted by some other persons who will take advantage of a given opportunity.

So someone tell me is that Kano state filled with a mountain of rubbish? 
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: usman11 on May 16, 2009, 03:12:03 PM
Dan Borno, you are totally correct about your assessment of some of Nigeria's problems. This closed minded attitude is a huge part of the our tragic circumstance. How does one simply dismiss a report as rubbish without even bothering to verify the facts or non facts? That type of mindset is totally unproductive, and non progressive. What if the reports are accurate? These saharareport critics seem to have made up their minds already regarding the validity of the report, and could careless if power is being abused by the Governor and his administration. For them, criticism or decent of any kind is unacceptable, yet they supposedly live in and operate a democratic system of governance.

The least we can do as public citizens is to debate or discuss the issues raised by the media. The media is a instrumental in educating the public on public policies and issues that affect us. The media acts as a check and balance sometimes on government so that government excesses are brought to light. without the media, the public would be in total darkness as to government activities that impact our lives. So we need to be informed. It is your right to be informed so that if bad policies that affect you and your family are being made, you can lend your voice in protest, or at least express your concerns. If enough people had that same information they can collectively take a stand which may or may not affect government policies. In any case, the information at hand presents you INFORMATION for your assessment thereby enabling you to make informed decisions.

This


 
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: usman11 on May 16, 2009, 03:53:23 PM
I just want to add also that the Lady shown in that picture is a beautiful black woman. Is that Husnaa?  ;D My goodness she is naturally pretty, and those are the kind of faces we need to feature in our PR publications and documentaries when we advertise Nigeria to the World. In contrast, we should make every effort not to air the pictures of those men as representative of Nigerian men because it would further diminish our PR effort.

Having said that, if the neighborhood picture of street garbage littering a stretch of highway, is that of Kano State, then like Husnna said, it says a lot about the governance of shekarau. Perhaps his administration should focus on real issues like.....cleaning the damn streets, and worry less about a fashion show that could actually help the economy if they (state government) had any clue on how to encourage free enterprise and help small businesses grow by creating an environment that supports such an atmosphere. This young lady had enough common sense, initiative, and business drive (which is lacking amongst many young Nigerians) to create something beautiful. She worked hard to organize a show which attracted over 300 guests, many of whom are investors, designers, marketers, entrepreneurs, etc. Rather than respect her hard work and talent, the bullish, brazen, unaccomplished, void of ideas, and under-achieving so called state government moral enforcers ruined what was poised to be a successful event. What a shame!!!!!What a shame indeed. This enterprising young lady invested her time, money, emotion, and skill into putting together something commendable.

Ms. Hamza is not in government embezzling public funds or issuing phony contracts that are never implemented. Ms. Hamza’s grave sin was daring to bring some activity to a dead end Taliban style community. The totally irresponsible holier than thou state government and their moralistic hisbah agents stormed the arena and threatened to actually burn down the facility. What responsible state agency makes such terroristic threat to the public whom they are supposed to protect from harm? And true to their word, the agents of destruction (that’s the only thing they are good at) would have followed through on their threats if Ms. Hamza and her people had not wisely cancelled the event.

It should be troubling to all sane people that a governor of a state where intolerant incidents like this occur actually aspires, and is in the running for President. Weep for Nigeria people.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on May 16, 2009, 04:14:22 PM
Lol that's not me. I'm much older than that!!!  ;D ;D and far less good looking :(  But thx for the flattering thought U2. Much appreciated!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: gogannaka on May 17, 2009, 12:01:54 AM
Usman, maybe the close minded attitude is the other way round.
Some poeple tend to believe anything they read online or in newspapers without actually veryfying the claims.Most especially when it is a negative report against government or government officials. Some on the other hand believe whatever negative report is published about a particlular religion or so.
Regarding the article, have read and verified the most i can about the incidence and yes it is rubbish.
In the whole article,the publishers have been able to present one solid evidence that shekarau ordered the cancellation of the event. They were so clever to confuse people yet clean their hands in the accusations.

If you could recall,a thisday article regarding some beauty pageant show to be held sometime back sparked of one of the worst ethno-religious crisis Kano has ever faced. This fashion show could have sparked a crisis which people would then be condemned and the state govt would be accused of not taking action despite all the 'intelligence reports'.

@ Muhsin,sincerely,when was the last time you heard that Shekarau has left the country? You are resident in Kano,maybe you don't get to watch the local news or pass by the govt house. His last trip was the one he went to settle the Pfizer case and the one before that was the one he went with the VP along with some other state governors.
Dan Allah ku dinga yin Adalci.
I pray some of us that talk and rant should be given power for a month and we'll see how we would perform.


Husnaa,yes that picture is of Kano. It is Sabongari area,precisely hausa Ibo road.
I can show you pictures of Lagos (as much as fashola is said to be working in lagos) where you would vomit by seeing them. My friend recently went to new york and took some pictures of some ghetto's/slums and they are no different from our own Sabongari.
Abuja ma has areas worse than the one in the picture. Have u forgotten Naples in Italy?
That article is rubbish i repeat.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on May 17, 2009, 05:03:58 PM
Well I think GGNK we shouldnt justify our own shortcomings by showing up other ppl's shortcomings. No matter that one gets the same problem in other places, it is still not acceptable and instead of trying to feel good that we are not  alone, we simply shouldnt condone it.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on May 17, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
Wai Shekarau baya fita ya ga yadda garin yake ne? Ko kuwa kwamishinonin sa da DGs dinsa sun fi karfin sa, sai abinda suka gadama suke yi?
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Dan-Borno on May 18, 2009, 02:14:07 PM
Abokina GGNK, kini kone, manne'o.  I think if you really read
husnaa's post, she is not much worried about the environment
rather the number of the okada riders which from this picture
you can easily take a statistics of the okada operators in kano
and the result is what husnaa is worried about.  we are talking
about creating jobs to the jobless and this is the only job our
government is encouraging.  recently, borno state introduced
a new law backing and legitimizing the operators of okada in the
state when some states are creating laws to wade them off their
streets because of the hazards and the economic implication
of this type of petty petty business, especially when all the able
bodied men engaged in it.

the second issue is directed at hajiya husnaa.  as far as i am
concern i see no evil if a young girl decides to show off her talent
and as i keep on saying, what we plant in our homes is what we
will saw on our streets.  the crop of tailors in places like hausari
in maiduguri and fagge in kano is a source of concern that has
already took a bold dimension beyond control.  because of these
tailors are capable of designing wrappers that are worse than the
english wears we see today, so if our community can condole the
activities and legitimise their businesses, i see no reason why
hypocritically, government will intervene in the case of this young
beautiful lady (ibid). 

kaga gogannaka, what you don't seem to understand is that, our
politicians are only interested in their political careers and anything
that has to do with that will be adequately dealth with no matter
how important it is.  government has every tool to mobilize its
people to be able to differentiate between good and bad, but for
government to go further and force people to do what they taught
is good for them, then they will face resistant from the people.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: usman11 on May 19, 2009, 01:38:14 AM
"Usman, maybe the close minded attitude is the other way round.
"Some poeple tend to believe anything they read online or in newspapers without actually veryfying the claims.Most especially when it is a negative report against government or government officials. Some on the other hand believe whatever negative report is published about a particlular religion or so.
Regarding the article, have read and verified the most i can about the incidence and yes it is rubbish.
In the whole article,the publishers have been able to present one solid evidence that shekarau ordered the cancellation of the event. They were so clever to confuse people yet clean their hands in the accusations.

If you could recall,a thisday article regarding some beauty pageant show to be held sometime back sparked of one of the worst ethno-religious crisis Kano has ever faced. This fashion show could have sparked a crisis which people would then be condemned and the state govt would be accused of not taking action despite all the 'intelligence reports'."

                                                                  - Gogonnaka

Gogonnaka, I think you should be careful or else paranoia may get the better of you. Where is the negative religious publication you are talking about? You seem to be the one infusing religion into this discuss. Your entire reaction of any critical report against the Kano State government is denial or to thrash the report. If you feel the reporting is inaccurate, why not expose the inaccuracies with your own verifiable facts? Where do you come off dismissing a report as rubbish, and expect the readers to accept your own version of the story? Can't your own position be classified as Rubbish as well, especially when you offer nothing in rebuttal, you offer no alternate material contradicting the papers, etc. I would consider you more credible when you begin offering factual or verifiable rebuttals to these reports.

The strange thing about your response also is your stunning admission that indeed the Governor did order the cancellation of the fashion expo. Are you even aware how this admission offers real credibility to the entire newspaper report? In any case, what was the rationale for the closure of the event? Can you explain that? You agree that the report provided solid evidence that Shekarau ordered the even closure, but in the same breadth, you accuse the writers of confusing people while keeping their hands clean. Can you elaborate on this because you lost me on this one. But my question still stands...why did Shekarau order the closure of a planned event?

In reference to the ThisDay's beauty pageant, which was also cancelled nonsensically, I fail to see the connection you are trying to make here. If your reasoning is that the Governor pre-emptively closed this event to prevent another possible conflict, then it speaks volumes about the irrationality of the people of Kano, and also about the porous leadership of the governor.

Ms. Hamza wasn't sponsoring a beauty contest. She organized a fashion event aimed at introducing her brand of clothes line....the success of which would have created employment and brought revenue to the local economy because she would have had to hire designers, cutters, tailors, etc. But yeah GGNK, thanks to you Very Smart guys for killing the project before it even began. I am sure Governor Shekarau and his enforcers are very proud of themselves. By the way, what did they achieve?   
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: malanyaya on June 27, 2009, 10:24:04 PM
Salam, Dan Barno I am very suprise with your confessing, of supporting Shekarau Presidential ambition. Do you think an average citizen beyond Kano area where all the rhetoric and cacaphony is aware of Shekarau ambition, NO NO NO. Let advise those campaigners they better encourage the Governor to finish or improve on the works he is doing before end of his tenure, rather than wasting his time and people resources in political manouver of stopping a certain Presidential aspirant from contesting forthcoming election(2010).
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Muhsin on June 30, 2009, 12:01:00 PM
Salam, Dan Barno I am very suprise with your confessing, of supporting Shekarau Presidential ambition. Do you think an average citizen beyond Kano area where all the rhetoric and cacaphony is aware of Shekarau ambition, NO NO NO. Let advise those campaigners they better encourage the Governor to finish or improve on the works he is doing before end of his tenure, rather than wasting his time and people resources in political manouver of stopping a certain Presidential aspirant from contesting forthcoming election(2010).

Very good input, Malanyaya.
Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Haladu on June 30, 2009, 02:46:02 PM
Please let Kanoonline rise above the ordinary. We should go beyond personalities. Kano needs issues discussed by people from all shades of political, religious and ethnic or whatever differences.

It is true I have seen, with my own eyes, similar scenes in South Africa, Washington, New York etc, but our concern is Kano. Local cleanliness translate into global cleanliness. We should not adress issues as Shekarau, Fashola, or whoever. That fuels sentiments. When discussions are sentimentalized, they loose focus and reason. Every individual has strengths and weaknesses. That is why we are human.

I am responding to you not from kano city or Nigeria, but somewhere on a duty tour outside the continent. I am sure many are reading this outside Nigeria. If we concentrate on trivialities, broad minds will keep off. Let us remain focussed.

Can we provide good insights for development to assist the government think of the things we want to see? Shekarau, as a person, can not see and hear everything about kano problems. We are the ambassadors. Let us hear and see for him/them and find creative ways of drawing their attention.

Thank you
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Muhsin on June 30, 2009, 04:39:20 PM
You are welcome aboard, Haladu. Hope you'll be having a great time with us.

I sincerely respect your comments I so far read there and here. You certainly have a point. Yet what you think cannot be actually done, for it'll be simply futile. Sorry.

And regarding your saying that we are the ambassadors, yes I agree with you to a certain degree and at the same time I disagree with that assertion. Why? Every government have its council members, commissioners, advisers, chairmen, councilors, etc. If you think what we say here would be of much significant to gov't what of what these bodies would (and are supposed to) say. They should be what they should be, i.e. mouthpiece for masses. But here is just a platform for a mere discussion.

More over, I, in particular, had been an ardent supporter of Shekarau. But he, out-and-out, is not what he seems as--saint, responsible, dedicated, and the likes. I can, aptly, say he's a wolf in sheep's cloth. Let me tell you; I even gave money to people to vote for him. Yet he unjustly maltreats us, cold-shoulders us, destroyed my business place, let people of his gov't embezzles and loots money and build mansion, prioritizes a sect of people who were during his election his mortal enemies--all in the name of Sharia? What is Shari'a here? What amongst all these actions and inactions mean emulating the good leadership of Umar Bin Khattab, which he proclaims emulating? Kai! Lets be realistic and judge things fairly? Lets not just waste time in trying to justifying unjustifiable?  Shekarau is no more the Shekarau of 2003-2007.

Let me stop here, for I get lots to do on the net. Have a good evening.

Thanks
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on June 30, 2009, 04:47:31 PM
Please let Kanoonline rise above the ordinary. We should go beyond personalities. Kano needs issues discussed by people from all shades of political, religious and ethnic or whatever differences.

It is true I have seen, with my own eyes, similar scenes in South Africa, Washington, New York etc, but our concern is Kano. Local cleanliness translate into global cleanliness. We should not adress issues as Shekarau, Fashola, or whoever. That fuels sentiments. When discussions are sentimentalized, they loose focus and reason. Every individual has strengths and weaknesses. That is why we are human.

I am responding to you not from kano city or Nigeria, but somewhere on a duty tour outside the continent. I am sure many are reading this outside Nigeria. If we concentrate on trivialities, broad minds will keep off. Let us remain focussed.

Can we provide good insights for development to assist the government think of the things we want to see? Shekarau, as a person, can not see and hear everything about kano problems. We are the ambassadors. Let us hear and see for him/them and find creative ways of drawing their attention.

Thank you

Kaga Mallam Halladu, let sleeping dogs lie! When we want to discuss the issues we will, when we want to discuss ppl we will. Let the administrator censor what we write. If you dont like readiing about ppl, I am sure there are many many other threads which will satisfy yr fastidiousness. As for us, kyale mu yadda ka same mu, or at least ni dai kyale ni yadda ka tarar da ni.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Muhsin on June 30, 2009, 05:31:24 PM
Hahaha. . . ;D ;D ;D Husnaa. That frank? Don't send him away that soon, right? ;)
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on June 30, 2009, 07:31:57 PM
I am not sending him away, Muhsin, I am taking exception to that superior patronizing tone of voice/writing. After all the guy just joined the forum. My guess is that this is probably the only thread or forum (general board at least) he has read and  he is already prejudging ppl.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Lawwali on June 30, 2009, 07:57:13 PM
 Good Mallam Haladu, issues should be discussed as that brings progress, But we equally have discuss personalities in Nigeria and Kano in particular Because personalities have persistently blocked the way of progress. Also as Husnaa said, when issues are best to be discussed they should be discussed, and when personalities are best to be discussed so be it. Even in advanced democracies such is obtainable. Remember the recent episode of House of commons Expenses scandal. But Husnaa please soft peddal on Mr Haladu.

Coming to the issue of Sahara reporters' reports, I cannot believe them as long as I will not believe shekarau and his collaborators' innocence in most of the charges libelled against them. More over, I did not believe in their shariacracy since its inception, because I know it is shallow, Hollow, superficial and ill conceived. moreover for me shekarau is a representation of failure. But in the content of that link posted by DB sahara reporters are terrably lying that 6 out of 10 youths in Kano are drugg addicts. DB, Husnaa, Muhsin, GGK, and all those that know kano knows that is this Greatest lie of this century.

Also on the issue of Zainab Hamza's show (although the content and scope of the show was detailed in the report), Kano is not and will never be a home to shameless Beauty or shameless tailoring design talent show that will be a parade of nudity. It is alien to our culture and Religion, this even the Ben Bruce Murray (Chief sponsor or coordinator of the Beauty show polarised northern Nigeria) Knows this well. We in Kano are muslims and unrepenant ones for that matter. we cannot be hypocritical about that. No matter How we can be civilised it should not be at the expense of our religious values and good cultural norms. Look at the picture of zainab in that report, does she represents our religious or Cultural values? please ladies and gentlemen in this forum let call a spsde with its own name.

At least, here i will support shekarau if he is behind the stoppage of that Zainab show. And for the invited guests to that show who are there because kano is devoid of lively activities (as saharareporters pointed) let anybody that is in desire of shameless activities to while away ideal time go back to where gets them.

kano people shall remein steadfast in defence of Decency.
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Haladu on July 01, 2009, 09:06:14 AM
Thanks everybody for the different opinions. To Hussana i will say if what i said did not go down well with you, i personally apoligize unreservedly. You may be surprised that the person you think sounds judgemental and all-knowing is but a learner. Is true i have joined kanoonline just relatively recently, but i thought every comer has something to contribute, at least potentially. I will not say your reaction will send me away as a brother thinks, but it may limit what i contribute.

Iwill defintely not discuss personalities in the name of politics. Enough of that i hear on radio stations in kano. However, remember even such discussions go on every day on radio, we are where we are today. Meaning we have not progressed politically. I wonder if such will produce a different result on this forum.

Let keep on.

Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Muhsin on July 01, 2009, 12:03:31 PM
Malam/Alhaji Haladu,

You surely presented a cogent point. But if you read what I had posted yesterday, i.e. a reply to your first reaction, I express the fruitlessness of doing what you think should be rather adherently done here. These people are more than blind, deaf and dump when it comes to accepting truth. Remember Shekarau vs Ribadu and indictment scandal before his re-election? Many people came out and advised your man (Shekarau) on how to deal with the problem at stake. But it was only one youth in the name of Ja'afar something and Dan Bilki Commander (if I recall aright) names he came out foolishly and childishly calling. You see! They listen to hard talks and ignore soft ones.

And, as you indirectly said you won't be contributing immensely as you might have geared up doing initially. Hope you'll discard this thought and rescind your decision. We welcome all kind of contributions, insultive and  abusive ones exclusive.

Wish all of us all the best.     
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on July 01, 2009, 06:52:38 PM
Thanks everybody for the different opinions. To Hussana i will say if what i said did not go down well with you, i personally apoligize unreservedly. You may be surprised that the person you think sounds judgemental and all-knowing is but a learner. Is true i have joined kanoonline just relatively recently, but i thought every comer has something to contribute, at least potentially. I will not say your reaction will send me away as a brother thinks, but it may limit what i contribute.

Iwill defintely not discuss personalities in the name of politics. Enough of that i hear on radio stations in kano. However, remember even such discussions go on every day on radio, we are where we are today. Meaning we have not progressed politically. I wonder if such will produce a different result on this forum.

Let keep on.



Mallam Haladu u are not a Bahaushe/Bakano surely? or u wouldnt spell my name so atrociously!!! Dont let me spoil yr fun on Kano online, so dont limit yr potential contributions because of some non poisonous venom emanating from my end. I get lots of it believe me, and I've learnt to live with it and give as good as I get when I can.
So have a good time, live and let live and let me write what I please (within reasonable bounds).
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: Dan-Borno on July 03, 2009, 03:03:02 PM
you guys are distorting a very nice thread
Title: Re: Shekarau's governance!
Post by: HUSNAA on July 03, 2009, 07:38:00 PM
you guys are distorting a very nice thread

Bcos u started it?  ;D