KanoOnline.com Forum

I have got some spare time on my hands and I am going to attempt to start what I hope will be a healthy debate that could both be constructive and enlightening to all. As we are all aware, very soon, the big fire works will start and you will struggle to find advert space in even the least popular newspaper in Nigeria. The big event? well, Nigeria will be 50 as one Nation, maybe with more patch work than an accident victim, lots of stitches, but no part broken off 'yet'.
I'd say most Nigerians alive today will fall into the under 50 category, age wise, and so a lot of "our" views and ideas would have been formed from written accounts rather than real life experience. This makes us more of theoretical ideologists rather than pragmatic thinkers, just my view. It is not uncommon for a gathering of Nigerian youths to attempt to solve the country's problem in any 1 sitting. We seem to have these ideas, albeit untested, on to how to make this country great again. The big question to ask here is; how potent are these ideas of ours?
I might as well cast the first stone. A few days back, I was narrating to a friend, an idea that I thought will solve a lot of the problems currently facing us. My idea, to scrap states and just retain the local and federal government structures in the country. Each state is made up of local governments, and to have 2 separate allocations, one for each, in my view, is first of all duplication as well as an avenue for corruption, inefficiency and lack of order to say the least.

Salam,

This is a very nice topic and for en erudite and matured discussion. I look forward to that.

Quote from: Suleman on June 01, 2010, 04:34:06 PM
I might as well cast the first stone. A few days back, I was narrating to a friend, an idea that I thought will solve a lot of the problems currently facing us. My idea, to scrap states and just retain the local and federal government structures in the country. Each state is made up of local governments, and to have 2 separate allocations, one for each, in my view, is first of all duplication as well as an avenue for corruption, inefficiency and lack of order to say the least.

It'll be very hard to find a single person who shares that view with you, Suleman, for it can hardly be practised. For a typical and nearest example: is there any country in this world that has no states? You may, well, find a nation without local governments, which is what some groups have been calling for to be done in Nigeria, especially considering the indisputable fact of the filthy activities going on in our local government councils.

From my view, what I'd like to change about Nigeria is nepotism and favouritism. If only qualified personnel be employed, every sector will be sanitized and repositioned. Secondly, I'll restructure our educational system by de-privatising it. Other sectors like health, too will be de-privatized.

A nice topic indeed.

Suleman,ideally, scrapping the states will help in bridging the gap between the government and populace.
When the federal allocation is divided among councils there is the hope that it can finally trickle down to the masses. When you know how much your local Councillor collected and what he did and u also know his house,you can easily tackle him.
I dare say that if what the state s collecting is shared among the various councils we have there will be much improvement in infrastructure.
However,that is just an ideal scenario. Its going to be a huge task changing the current state we're in.
The whole system has to change and as u said in the first post,its more theoretical than practical.

If i had my way i would forcefully induce discipline in the Nigerian.

Very encouraging to see that interests have picked up. Muhsin, bless you. You have only revealed to me why the person I first shared the idea with, only smiled and said, "nice idea"  ;D, in other words NERD. But seriously, the UK is one such country that doesn't have states and governance could'nt be more effective, I tell you. The state structure, as entrenched in our constitution, I believe is borrowed from the American system, but even then, the American states have more independance than ours.
As GGNK pointed out, just imagine if Dala local government in Kano has an allocation of say =N=1BN monthly. You will have only the very best contesting for chairmanship, and it will be much easier for the, say 1 million indigenes of that local government, to demand good governance, than it will be for 9+ million of Kano to put heads together and challenge an inactive governor.

What needs to change in Nigeria are its inhabitants.

We are a people bound to far too many deleterious cultural habits that cannot be tolerated in progressive societies. Corruption has already been mentioned and is an obvious example.

I see little wisdom in the elimination of the state level leaving only the the federal and LG level, as it only further compounds the present folly of state multiplicity. Perhaps there is more wisdom in drastically reducing the number of states and returning, in a sense, to the regional era of the First Republic - but then again, that didn't end so well either. In any case, no system will ever work as long as you have a people that do not have the basic disciplines and values that make any progressive societies tick. As long as public service is viewed as largely as a means of self-aggrandizement then nothing will ever work. Should it then be a surprise that the multiplicity of states and LGAs since 1967 have met with inadequate progress?

Corruption is a base instinct of all peoples, and all the advanced societies of the world have had to work hard against it. We in Nigeria have not worked nearly hard enough in the fight against corruption and other societal evils. Until we do that, there will be no relief for us.

Lionger, we are viewing the same point but from different angles. Its a bit like the chicken and egg question. I am of the view that our structure is fundamental to the progress we will make. We are a country of many Nationalities. I believe, and I stand to be corrected on this one, that the states were created to bring government closer to the people, but most importantly, to suppress any more urge for seccession ala Biafra. Having more states, in my view, has been a very binding factor on us as a Nation, as it is more difficult for say, 6 Ibo states to put heads together and talk about seccession; during Biafra it was only the Eastern region governed by one man. If I am right on this one, then surely having 400 LGs will even be more binding cause then, even amongst the same tribes, every one shall answer his Papa name as they say. I would like to think our problem is more to do with how much power is concentrated in an office rather than the number of offices.

Suleman
I would say you need states for the economies of scale. Can you imagine local governments all building roads differently? You would say that under your plan national government would build the roads and supply the services. I would say you need powerful groupings in each area to make sure the allocation of resources from the centre is fair to all areas - which is what the states do.
I would say that perhaps some people might argue that Nigeria would be happier as three or four or even five different countries.
After all Nigeria was invented as a colonial convenience.

But I would mainly say that Nigeria can never go forward as long as corruption is a way of life for many Nigerians. This is a subject that seems to embarrass some on Kano Online. Why should that be? How many on KanoOnline can put their hand on their hearts and say I have never profitted from a corrupt deal or corrupt circumstance?
Corruption and the hypocrisy that accompanies it is destroying Nigeria. Yet Nigeria should be leading Africa.   

Dave,
Corruption is a way of life for "many Nigerians" because the ordinary citizens accept it. This is so because the people don't feel represented or should I say don't feel the stollen wealth belongs to them. An average Nigerian seems to view public funds like the westerners view lottery wins; only for the lucky. A good example is the punishment meeted out to ordinary thieves in the market or burglars when caught. Because they stole "somebody's" property, they are dealt with properly, but a public servant, in many Nigerian's view is not stealing anyone's property.

As an aside, I read today that =N=10BN has been budgeted for 50th anniversary celebrations. Am I missing something here? Should'nt the theme be "reflection" rather than celebration?

QuoteLionger, we are viewing the same point but from different angles. Its a bit like the chicken and egg question. I am of the view that our structure is fundamental to the progress we will make. We are a country of many Nationalities. I believe, and I stand to be corrected on this one, that the states were created to bring government closer to the people, but most importantly, to suppress any more urge for seccession ala Biafra. Having more states, in my view, has been a very binding factor on us as a Nation, as it is more difficult for say, 6 Ibo states to put heads together and talk about seccession; during Biafra it was only the Eastern region governed by one man. If I am right on this one, then surely having 400 LGs will even be more binding cause then, even amongst the same tribes, every one shall answer his Papa name as they say. I would like to think our problem is more to do with how much power is concentrated in an office rather than the number of offices.

Suleiman,
Yes, perhaps it can be argued that the creation of states have made us more 'unified' - well it is probably more accurate to say as you did initially that it had made secession more difficult, because it is clear that many still want out of Nigeria - but lets humour you on this one. Unification at what cost, however? Has this 'unification' led to an improved standard of living for our people? It should be possible to have the basic social amenities available even in a country that ultimately fails as a political unit. Why is this not the case in Nigeria, where a fraction of the oil revenues would have achieved the said goal?

To be sure, political structure is fundamental to our progress. However, we need to think carefully about this, because it is not all about political setup or even economic policies; among other things, culture and values also count big time. If we go about radically restructuring our government without giving heed to other attenuating factors, we may end up with diminishing returns, as some have discovered.

On this note, lets look at your proposed solution again. While it is questionable that increasing the number of LGAs will 'unify' us more, it should be altogether obvious that it will not improve the socio-economic lot of the people. Why? Because that is precisely what has happened! Nigeria has grown from 19 states and 300 LGAs in 1979 to 36 states and over 700 LGAs at present.With all the conflagrations that have flared up in that period of time it is difficult to say that we are any more 'unified' now than we were 30-40 years ago - and some of these conflagrations have been over LGA creation/edition. It is even more impossible to say that we have improved in terms of public services, because we clearly haven't. Infact, if anything, we have regressed. And yet in the same period of time, Nigeria has actually gotten richer! Worse, part of the rationale behind state/LGA proliferation as you also identified is the creation of more ethnically homogenous mini-entities, which is supposed to mitigate our apparently disavantageous ethnic heterogeneity. So why then are we still in the gutter? How come 'Papa' still dey 'chop and quench', even when it concerns his kinsman?

The reason why I've zeroed in on our poor code of public ethical behaviour is that I have come to believe that it is deeply ingrained in our culture, and predates contact with the imperial Western powers. So while colonization brought its own share of problems, it alone does not explain our present predicament.(And lets be honest folks, we would be much worse off without colonization, but that's another argument). Other countries like South Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, Brazil and India were also colonized, but they are not the basket cases that Nigeria is today. Ironically some of these nations were in worse conditions than Nigeria 50 years ago. A common denominator with some of these nations is that they have fought a hard fight against corruption. In Nigeria, we have done NOTHING.

Quote from: Suleman on June 02, 2010, 11:40:31 AM
As an aside, I read today that =N=10BN has been budgeted for 50th anniversary celebrations. Am I missing something here? Should'nt the theme be "reflection" rather than celebration?

It's a very flabbergasting story; I read it on Daily Trust today. Only in Nigeria such a thing could be done, notwithstanding the indisputable fact, which is known to all, that nothing like this (call it celebration, reflection or whatsoever) could consume that huge amount of money. It does not at all rhyme with common sense. That remind me of Isah Aremu's words: Common sense is not common in (Nigerian) politics.

@Lionger,

Well said. I am 90% with you there. I too see no reason and no point in scrapping states. Leave states as they are but, to me, local governments should be did away with. Why? They are the roots of corruption, nepotism, favourism, embezzlement and all other filthy acts.

lionger has initially highlighted our major problem(s) that if
we can be able to deal with, all other things will be fine.

Quote from: lionger on June 01, 2010, 07:42:38 PM
What needs to change in Nigeria are its inhabitants.

and

Quote from: lionger on June 01, 2010, 07:42:38 PM
Corruption has already been mentioned and is an obvious example.

there is nothing wrong with the present system if corruption
and unpatriotism can be reduced to its minimum level.

another interesting issue is, does the unity of this country ever
helped matters?

Quote from: Muhsin on June 02, 2010, 01:45:11 PM
@Lionger,

Well said. I am 90% with you there. I too see no reason and no point in scrapping states. Leave states as they are but, to me, local governments should be did away with. Why? They are the roots of corruption, nepotism, favourism, embezzlement and all other filthy acts.

Muhsin, eliminating the LGAs will solve next to nothing in a country where corruption is pervasive at ALL levels of government and society. How exactly will eliminating LGAs stop federal and state goverment officials from enriching themselves off the treasury, or 'big men' at all levels sitting on other peoples' salaries, or policemen manning 'checkpoints' to extort bribes from people off the streets, or secretaries and clerks who won't pass on your file or allow you to see oga until they get their cut, or lecturers who won't pass you unless you grant sexual favors, or other petty officials and 'middlemen' all over Nigeria who won't perform their obligatry services without extorting bribes? My friend, we need to think harder. This disease runs far deeper than the present dispensation into pre-colonial times, and that much is obvious from examing the records of the first Europeans that made contact with us.

Quote from: Dan-Borno on June 02, 2010, 02:58:33 PM
lionger has initially highlighted our major problem(s) that if
we can be able to deal with, all other things will be fine.

Quote from: lionger on June 01, 2010, 07:42:38 PM
What needs to change in Nigeria are its inhabitants.

and

Quote from: lionger on June 01, 2010, 07:42:38 PM
Corruption has already been mentioned and is an obvious example.

there is nothing wrong with the present system if corruption
and unpatriotism can be reduced to its minimum level.

another interesting issue is, does the unity of this country ever
helped matters?

Dan Borno there is plenty wrong with the present system. Among other things, goverment structure since the 60s has grown into a bloated and awfully wasteful enterprise, with the dubious 'benefit' that more people than before can now take their 'cut' from the national cake. Personally I think it might be better to drastically cut the number of states and LGAs back to the 1976 levels. Of course, this is totally against the current trend of thinking, as the National Assembly recently announced the impending creation of ten new states by next year. No doubt most of these new states will be anything but economically viable, hanging on to the Federal government for dear life. Yet a nation like India, far larger in population and geographic size and with twice as many linguistic groups has only 26 states. Is there any evidence that we know something about this that they don't know? My fellow Nigerians, I say it again: we need to THINK HARDER.

Quote from: Muhsin on June 02, 2010, 01:45:11 PM

@Lionger,

Well said. I am 90% with you there. I too see no reason and no point in scrapping states. Leave states as they are but, to me, local governments should be did away with. Why? They are the roots of corruption, nepotism, favourism, embezzlement and all other filthy acts.

I don't suppose the other 10% is disagreeing with his view that our culture supports bad conduct? I don't think that is the complete picture. I would like to ask if corruption was as bad 20 yrs ago as it is now? My answer is no, not at all. It got worse over the years because the perpetraitors got more and more bold, seeing that they get away with it each time. Infact they get rewarded. It has more to do with our "circumstance" rather than our culture. Our circumstance in this case being extreme poverty and lack of exposure/experience. Notice that I intentionally did not use the word "illiteracy" as many would have put it. Many of our people may not genuinely be aware that things can be done, and indeed are done differently elsewhere.
As for the part played by our culture (Hausa), one of the many flaws is that to us respect is demanded not earned. It is a commodity that is priced by the reciever and not the giver as found in other societies. It is so easy for anyone to change his status just by changing his outlook. Normally the people whose respect you command should decide if you deserve it or not by being influencial in their lives.

Interesting topic, suleman.

However, I disagree with you on the issue of scrapping states. having only LGs won't solve our problems as I bet you the LG Chairmen would simply wear the toga of the present state governors. I fail to see how governance would be more effective in a state where you have, say, 40 "mini governors". It would simply be chaos. States are necessary for economies of scale. There are developmental matters/projects, critical to the economic and social development of the society that can't be broken down into communal interests. Who would establish the university? Each LG?  ;D The Specialist hospital, roads, modern markets, courts, etc. You can't trust the FG to do it, and it is simply impossible for each LG to build its own. So, okay, the UK operates the system succesfully. But then taking into account the social/cultural and demographic difference btw us, the present system suits us better.  Corruption is the main issue. I dare say the only issue. Remove corruption, and you've solved 99% of Nigeria's problems.

Suleman,

QuoteI don't suppose the other 10% is disagreeing with his view that our culture supports bad conduct? I don't think that is the complete picture.

1. I never said cultural defects painted the entire picture of our predicament; it does not. But I am saying that it is a key factor that ought not to be ignored.

2. I am not merely trashing our culture for the sake of it. Remember what I said in my first post on this topic:

QuoteCorruption is a base instinct of all peoples, and all the advanced societies of the world have had to work hard against it. We in Nigeria have not worked nearly hard enough in the fight against corruption and other societal evils. Until we do that, there will be no relief for us.

There are countries like Singapore that, among other things, recognized the inherent corrupt aspect of Mandarin culture and took tough steps to curb it. It wasn't easy, but in the end they succeeded in turning Singapore from a third-world backwater in 1965 into a financial capital in the 90s. What did Nigeria achieve in that period of time?

QuoteI would like to ask if corruption was as bad 20 yrs ago as it is now? My answer is no, not at all.

Er, Sule, 20 years ago would be 1990, and by then Nigeria was already recognized as one of the world's leading corrupt nations. Moreover, it was in 1996, that Nigeria gained the inglorious distinction of being the world's most corrupt nation, courtesy of Transparency International.

QuoteIt has more to do with our "circumstance" rather than our culture. Our circumstance in this case being extreme poverty and lack of exposure/experience.

Ok, but what is the cause of this our 'extreme poverty and lack of exposure/experience'? Isn't this what we're discussing here? It is not that straightforward to determine whether poverty leads to corruption or vice versa. And if we accept that poverty is a cause (fine to me), then it is still not enough in explaining our situation. Why then do we observe corruption among the wealthier upper classes? And why do we not see the same behaviour among the lower classes in the West? Norms and values count for much more than we think.

QuoteNotice that I intentionally did not use the word "illiteracy" as many would have put it. Many of our people may not genuinely be aware that things can be done, and indeed are done differently elsewhere.

Illiteracy should be mentioned, as it is undoubtedly a factor in our predicament. In today's world, an educated populace is critical to taking the next step forward. This was one of the ways by which South Korea lifted itself from the gutter. It is striking the we fared far better on this issue with regional governments of the precolonial and early independence days, who had far less resources than the Nigerian government had from the 70s onwards.

The responses here are both depressing and encouraging at the same time.
Depressing  because Nigeria is indeed recognised worldwide as the world's most corrupt country and encouraging because so may are now able to admit this and recognise it is not the fault of anybody else but Nigerians.

They go to mosque on  Friday
They go to church on a Sunday
The thieves that are stealing the future from Nigeria's people.
What is worse is the admiration the big man thief is given by those around him.
You can add hypocrisy to corruption as the twin ills that beset Nigeria.

I cannot blame the small guys for grabbing what they can. After all, he sees his "government" stealing millions all the time and getting away with.
I do not believe that Nigerians are any worse as people than anybody else in the world. But you cannot have an incorrupt society when the police force is corrupt and useless, when the courts are completely open to interference and when any big man can buy any sort of judgement he wants.
Nigeria probably needs to import Police Chiefs from other places if any attempt is to be made to start a war against corruption.
When a policeman can charge a Governor you have system that is working.

Thanks gentlemen. Good topic, wonderful contributions. As usual, there is never a shortage of ideas on what is wrong with our country or the way forward.  Problem is, we talk too much. At the end of all the discussions and brilliant analyses, our job is done and the decay continues... How to break this jinx, this vicious cycle that has seen us regressing these past 50 years? Action, any action other than just talk.

Here is one idea: There seems to be a consensus that corruption is at the root of our problems. Lets sponsor a whistle blower bill in the National Assembly as one weapon to fight it. Let this bill guarantee protection/anonymity. Let it provide motivation in the form of some percentage of recovered loot.  Surely someone must know how we can get started on this right away!  (and if something like this already exist, lets publicize it, or, if need be, amend it to be more effective)

This is getting more encouraging to say the least. Nasr, There is indeed a whistleblower bill pending in the NASS as I found out from a simple google search (how we lived before google beats me). I have attached a link to the report of the project that gave birth to the draft bill.
I do agree with you that actions need to come out from the "brilliant analysis" but let me also add that talking about is a step in the right direction as Dave put it. We are constantly reminding one another that, indeed we do not approve of the 'goings on'. Remember a hadith of the prophet (SAW) that says, ' who ever amonst you saw an ill (wrongdoing), then he should correct it with his hands, if that is not possible, then with his tongue and if that is not possible, then correct it in his heart, and that is the weakest of iman'. I believe by discussing the issue, we are a step above the weakest, but that should'nt deter us from aspiring for the strongest.

http://www.partnershipfortransparency.info/uploads/completed%20projects/nigeria_report.htm (http://www.partnershipfortransparency.info/uploads/completed%20projects/nigeria_report.htm)

Wouldn't the bill be a replication of the EFCC and ICPC acts?

The power of fighting corruption lies in the head of the government. If the president is keen on fighting corruption there's no doubt the effect will be great.
But the thing is, usually the way presidents come to power itself is corrupt.
Corruption has to be eliminated along with gross indiscipline before the country moves forward.

Gogannaka is right. The problem has to be solved right from the top.

In historical terms the fact that Nigeria found itself with huge oil wealth has turned out to be a curse rather than a blessing. While other emerging societies across the world have had to do things right and had to manufacture in factories and had to do their agriculture right  in order to improve as a society Nigeria found itself with easy money. One of your staple foods - rice - is imported because of this easy money. People have abandoned doing agriculture because of this easy money. Every body at every level wants a bit of this easy money. You don't have to work. You just have to know the right people. Or get a "contract" to split with a corrupt official. I could go on and on. Yet I have met many Nigerians who were the best workers I ever knew. But why work for useless wages when your brother has a contract and is rich doing nothing.

And when the oil runs out. What then? Will Nigeria have any roads left by then? 

Quote from: gogannaka on June 03, 2010, 04:58:01 PM
Wouldn't the bill be a replication of the EFCC and ICPC acts?

The power of fighting corruption lies in the head of the government. If the president is keen on fighting corruption there's no doubt the effect will be great.
But the thing is, usually the way presidents come to power itself is corrupt.
Corruption has to be eliminated along with gross indiscipline before the country moves forward.

The bill is for the protection of whistleblowers. It is comlpletely different, albeit complementary, to the acts of the EFCC and ICPC. A whistleblower is any member of the public who has evidence of an act of corruption going on and would like to expose it. The bill is intended to provide for that persons protection, by the Law. Many people are afraid of the repercurssions of exposing corrupt practices, which makes the perpetraitors more daring in their acts.
You have said it yourself, fighting corruption is mainly the resolve of the government as they are best placed to commit resources to achieve that, but "exposing" corruption should be every ones' responsibilty, nevertheless, the whistleblower should not be doing so at his own risk so to speak.

The creation of the EFCC, ICPC and the whistleblower protection bill are all steps in the right direction. (We hardly have a 'whistleblower' culture in Nigeria, but we gotta start somewhere. That is part of our problem anyways).

Another suggestion is that the government decide on a sound economic development program and hold fast to it for a significant period of time(> 10 years). Things take time to work. Part of our problem is that we have simply failed to commit to economic policies, let alone implementing them properly. Every new government heralds their magic formula, does barely anything with it and then we find ourselves still in square one with the next government. Witness Yar'Adua's seven point agenda - where's the beef? It is because things like this that Nigerians have become some of the most cynical people on the face of the earth.

I have already talked about trimming our unnecessarily cumbersome government structure, but sadly this will probably never happen in Nigeria. But in any case the key to progess in Nigeria as others have mentioned is sound visionary leadership. How such leaders will get in there I don't know, but it will have to happen. Otherwise, the only other recourse I see is cataclysmic destruction that will wipe the entire Nigerian slate clean, upon which a more sober people can begin to build a better society.

this is very interesting, i like d whistle blower concept, it will cause a lot of heart ache but if we are determined it ll work in years to come but not immediately.

you see our problem is nothing works like it should in nija, its like it has a disease dat has attacked all her organs, major n minor, n they are failing one after d other til we have total anarchy! Allah help us.

let me give an example of how whistle blowing ll leave one high n dry, and oh yeah very hungry. so i work this committee in an organisation dat adminters justice, someone whistle blows on an officer dat abused his office. this officer comes before d committee, n wat do u know, hes d cousin to our ceo, so he was reprimanded verbally, oh i was so impressed wit how d chairman talked to dat guy, officer leaves, n its time for d committee to write its recommendation, d same chairman now turns n says ok, how do we pay up this debt, as he is d ceo's cousin, we hav to be careful, so we ask d finance dept to foot d bill. i was flabbershocked! so just because hes related to smone high up he goes away wit embezzlement n tax payers money is going to be used to support his habit.

in dis case if i whistle blow on d committee, who listens to me? these guys are d creme of dat org., they ll set up a fresh committee to deal wit me for devulging previleged info n i ll be sacked, mind u dats wat happened eventually, i didnt whistle blow but i think my face is too expressive, they saw exactly how i was feeling, i think they got tired of my judgemental attitude.

however i feel as we are tackling these problems from d top we should also consider our schools, have a better system, teach nigerian history n nationalism, instill d love of d country in our youth, its very important!!!! so dat somehow d two ll meet in d middle n d country ll be a whole lot better for all, it ll not be perfect but it will be more civilised n humane

Instilling the love of the country and nationalism is important.
Last week i was watching the NTA, they had organized a national science exhibition where children from primary and secondary schools showcased different scientific and engineering inventions.
The event was hosted by the minister of state for information and the DG of the NTA.
It was quite interesting,however, towards the end of the program (i didn't really watch the full program) i heard the MC saying something like 'children from the south-west please exchange your gifts with children from the north-east. Those from north central exchange your gifts with those from the south east' and so forth.
I was sad. The primary school pupils as young as they are have been divided already.
I remember when we were in primary school i didn't know any north east or north central. Infact i didn't know any north. I only knew that Lagos was very far and close to the ocean. All i knew was Nigeria. But here was a federal minister and the top helmsman of the National TV sectionalising and regionalising young children at this tender age.

Another disturbing instance happened a month ago. We had some new neighbors that moved in recently. They have this cute little girl called favour. She is around 5years and she loves coming to our house to play with the kids (her age mates). One day she was happily playing and she heard us speaking hausa. She asked 'are you people hausa' we said yes. She squeked 'JESUS' and she left the house.
This shows you how divided we already are. A 5 year old already judging people according to their tribe.
My niece(who is also Favour's friend) also came back from school when yar'adua died and was sad. I asked her why she was sad and she said her friends were rejoicing over his death. She said they were happy because a christian was now president. She said now she hates Christians because they rejoice if people die. I had a hard time convincing her that not all Christians are like that.

So here we are spending N10billion celebrating 50years of unity when the foundations are already corrupted, tribalized and divided between Islam and Christianity.
God help us.

ggnk that is touching, it really is sad, and i can attest to those incidences, being a muslim northerner dat just moved to the south, it is a real eye opener for me on how divided nigeria is, and for us to move this country successfully forward we have to resolve those issue.

if we are going to remain one nigeria then we ll all hav to work towards it, if its not going to work then its beta to divide while the going is still good, because we are harbouring a lot of hatred and anger, on both ethnic and religious sides, we do not want a situation where we will implode and explode at dsame time! mega catastrophe by name civil war! subhanallah, Allah ya kare!

i just read an article by obi ezekwesili in thisday, saying dat prior to d recent economic recession nigeria n africa in general was experiencing an economic growth, may be if one looks too hard one may shoot holes in ha analysis, which is actually world bank's analysis, but i think half bread is beta than non, that we are progressing, even at a snail's pace, is positive, it gives hope!

Quote from: ummutameem on June 10, 2010, 12:53:04 PM
i just read an article by obi ezekwesili in thisday, saying dat prior to d recent economic recession nigeria n africa in general was experiencing an economic growth, may be if one looks too hard one may shoot holes in ha analysis, which is actually world bank's analysis, but i think half bread is beta than non, that we are progressing, even at a snail's pace, is positive, it gives hope!

Ironically, we just finished a presentation which suggests that while the GDPs of the developed nations is going to remain relativley flat for the next 3 years, that of Africa and the emerging Asian economies will see an astronomical growth within the same time period. I also read a report by Standard Chartered bank yesterday suggesting that Nigeria could overtake South Africa in terms of the size of the economy by 2028. I am of the view that the greatest thing working for us is our population which with globalisation makes us an indispensable market.
I also found this report on 'GOLD in Zamfara'. Yes thats right, there could be light at the end of the tunnel.

http://af.reuters.com/article/nigeriaNews/idAFLDE65722320100609?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0 (http://af.reuters.com/article/nigeriaNews/idAFLDE65722320100609?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0)

It's all good having these encouraging statistics being forecasted, but I tell you the reality is different. I'm not too sure I like teh idea of nigeria being a mere 'market' for the industrialised world. Because that is what we basically are at the moment. The Real Sector, which is the bedrock of economic growth, is comatose. So the prospect of us overtaking South Africa by 2028 in terms of size of the economy is neither here nor there. Economic size is not the same thing as quality of the economy. The real challenge is transforming Nigeria's huge population into a productive one. Not mere "recipients" of foreign products.

I think what need to be changed is our attitude to examinations in our school system, that is the basic point. Let me share with you my argument as contained in an essay I posted on Gamji.com in 2008, reproduced below:
Time and again we are told, by experts and novices alike, of the falling standard of education in Nigeria. It is not the intent of this write-up to question the basis of this supposition; rather it intends to draw attention to the cankerworm that is not only invading and eating at the very core of the Nigerian education system, but also making complete nonsense of the entire system.
All societies require education to enable new members not only fit into their work roles in the world of work, but also to satisfy the labour needs of the economy. The society look up to the school and the curriculum, as necessary to enable the rising generation gain the needed insight and power, to build a better society. In fact, the Nigerian National Policy on Education recognized education as an instrument par excellence for affecting national development.
Accountants, Architects, Bankers, Doctors, Engineers, Pharmacists, Lawyers, Journalist, Scientists, and even Teachers, are direct products of the education system. It goes without saying, that whatever compromise the efficiency and credibility of the education system compromise the quality and competency of its products.
The way and manner examinations are conducted in Nigeria today, not only rubbish the examination process but also made gibberish of the entire education system. Schools have failed in their responsibility of producing citizens that are worthy, both in character and learning; they now serve merely as gateways to meaningless certification.
Any person that has anything to do with the conduct of any form of examination in Nigeria today has a story to tell of this cankerworm that is threatening the very essence of our societal moral values. Indeed, examination malpractice has permeated all levels of the Nigerian education system. We can only afford to continue pushing this issue under the carpet at our own peril.
This problem is more alarming at the secondary schools level, for whose products external examinations and professional entry qualifications will continue to remain facts of life. Schools, on the one hand, and parents on the other, are in an unholy alliance whose only goal is to produce, by hook or crook, good examination results for the schools. Consequently, undermining the integrity of the examination bodies is fair game. This unholy alliance always finds willing foot-soldiers among the examination bodies' staff.
How do we get into this mess? Perhaps this is the wrong question. We ought instead to be asking "Why do we get into this mess?" The answer is not far. What do you expect from a society that is all out crazy for paper qualifications? Excuse my answering the question with a question - I am just been a true-to-type Nigerian.
Examination is the thrust of the Measurement and Evaluation stage of all formal education process. Measurement in education, we were told by those who should know, is the process of determining how much knowledge and skill a student has acquired. This is usually done using tests: objective, essay etc. Evaluation on the other hand, is the process of judging the adequacy of the amount of knowledge or skill possessed by students. The measurement process ends when an examination has been administered and scored. Evaluation then passes value judgment about the scores: Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory; Distinction, Credit, Pass or Fail; Grade A, B, C, D, E or F. This is the stage in the education system that is hijacked, undermined or grossly abused by examination malpractice.
No one cares about the totality of the teaching-learning process: availability or otherwise of teaching and instructional materials; qualified and competent teachers that are masters of their subjects; conduciveness of learning environment etc. All that matters is what paper results the students graduate with. Every body wants good results, by hook or crook. Schools proprietors and managements want good examinations results, not only to show that they are working, but also to continue to attract patronage from gullible parents. Teachers want good results to justify their pay. Parents want their children to have good examinations results to be able to further their education or enter their career of choice. For the same reason, of course, students also want good examination results. So, teachers, parents and students become brother musketeers; with the schools management as their D'Artagnan - all for one and one for all – and everyone for examination malpractice.
Which way out of the woods? First, there is the need for a concrete and comprehensive social re-engineering that will salvage what remains of our societal norms and values. Second, the Examinations Malpractices Act No. 33 of 1999 which provide penalties: imprisonment, fine or both for persons and bodies found guilty of involvement in aiding, abetting, negligence or dereliction in the conduct of examinations need to be activated. Perhaps, seeing the law in action may stem the tide.
Unless the prevalence of examination malpractice is checked, Nigeria may never make it to the list of the first twenty largest economies by the year 2020. Until examination malpractice is eradicated, President 'Yar'adua's 7-Point Agenda will, like the US Challenger, explodes before hitting its target.
Thank you for your time.

Well said bakangizo. Producers of finished goods will always have the upper hand over mere consumers, even those who possess vital raw materials. The sooner we realize this and take the steps needed to create an industrial society the better for us.

Barring the recent recession, sub saharan economic growth in the past decade has long been reported by observers. But all is far from rosy. For one thing, economic growth is not keeping up with population growth. Moreover, we have serious issues with financial mismanagement and corruption. The end result is that though we have more and more money pouring into our economies, the overwhelming majority of our people are not seeing this money and as such are actually getting poorer. So by all means we must keep hope, but let us not lose sight of the magnamity of the task ahead of us. Development is not a given!



Aliyu,
Examination malpractise is part of the wider problem of our poor code of public ethics. I don't think our love for paper qualifications is the genesis of this particular problem though. After all, people are crazy about paper qualifications in the West as well. The difference is that the insititutions in the West are set up such that it is much harder here to obtain such things thru wayo. Also the people  in the West are far more intolerant of this kind of behaviour. I like what you say here and I think it will help propel Nigeria to the same level:

QuoteWhich way out of the woods? First, there is the need for a concrete and comprehensive social re-engineering that will salvage what remains of our societal norms and values. Second, the Examinations Malpractices Act No. 33 of 1999 which provide penalties: imprisonment, fine or both for persons and bodies found guilty of involvement in aiding, abetting, negligence or dereliction in the conduct of examinations need to be activated. Perhaps, seeing the law in action may stem the tide.

The worlds 10 worst economies, a report published on Leadership today. Incidentaly Nigeria is not included, but then again, neither is Niger. The biggest suprise for me is Ghana, 9th on the list.

http://www.leadershipnigeria.com/news/cover-stories/16222-revealed-the-worlds-worst-economies (http://www.leadershipnigeria.com/news/cover-stories/16222-revealed-the-worlds-worst-economies)

Interesting piece.
This quote is exactly a problem in Ghana:

'All have at least one trait in common: Their governments discourage private investment--and economic growth--through policies of crony capitalism, expropriation or arbitrary enforcement of the laws. That makes it hard to generate hard currency to pay off government debt and discourages citizens from investing in education to improve their own economic lot'.

They detest foreign investment.
Ghana thinks that because their democracy has been recognized by the US and they have discovered oil, then there is need for them to reject all form of investments from any foreigners ( especially Nigerians)
They selectively enforce wicked laws on investors. Right now, for a Nigerian to do business in Ghana you have to pay more than N300,000(non refundable) to the authorities before your papers are reviewed. Other Investors are not required to do so. They say they do that to guarantee the stay of the Nigerians.
Also recently,globacom,who won a GSM license to operate in Ghana announced that it is withdrawing its services from the country because of deliberate sabotage from both people and government. And glo has already invested and is planning to invest billions of Dollars into the Ghanaian telecommunication industry.

QuoteGhana thinks that because their democracy has been recognized by the US and they have discovered oil, then there is need for them to reject all form of investments from any foreigners ( especially Nigerians)
They selectively enforce wicked laws on investors. Right now, for a Nigerian to do business in Ghana you have to pay more than N300,000(non refundable) to the authorities before your papers are reviewed. Other Investors are not required to do so. They say they do that to guarantee the stay of the Nigerians.
Also recently,globacom,who won a GSM license to operate in Ghana announced that it is withdrawing its services from the country because of deliberate sabotage from both people and government. And glo has already invested and is planning to invest billions of Dollars into the Ghanaian telecommunication industry.

Are you sure they are not exacting revenge for the "Ghana Must Go" of the '80s? ;D Ka san fa a gaskiya mun yi musu wulakanci.

BKGZ,if they are wise, revenge will not take them anywhere.
The US Nuked japan but it didn't make japan chase away american investments.

Quote from: bakangizo on June 14, 2010, 05:14:50 PM

QuoteGhana thinks that because their democracy has been recognized by the US and they have discovered oil, then there is need for them to reject all form of investments from any foreigners ( especially Nigerians)
They selectively enforce wicked laws on investors. Right now, for a Nigerian to do business in Ghana you have to pay more than N300,000(non refundable) to the authorities before your papers are reviewed. Other Investors are not required to do so. They say they do that to guarantee the stay of the Nigerians.
Also recently,globacom,who won a GSM license to operate in Ghana announced that it is withdrawing its services from the country because of deliberate sabotage from both people and government. And glo has already invested and is planning to invest billions of Dollars into the Ghanaian telecommunication industry.

Are you sure they are not exacting revenge for the "Ghana Must Go" of the '80s? ;D Ka san fa a gaskiya mun yi musu wulakanci.

i think u guys are mistaken, they are just protecting there country, and i think in addition u must have a ghanaian partner in order to do biz there, seeing wat multinationals have turned ieria into, i dont blame them.

There is no multinational operating in Nigeria which did not operate with the full connivance of its Nigerian partners. Nigeria is more than fifty years independent and problems in Nigeria are Nigerian problems.

That is exactly what the IMF points out.
For any nation to grow, money must come from another country into the country otherwise they will just be recycling their wealth and remain stagnant.
People need to come in with their monies from their countries and spend it in your country. Then you will have growth.
Nigerians are eager and willing to contribute to the growth of the Ghanaian economy but they don't want it.
The IMF has seen this trait and have outlined why their economy is badly managed.

@ Dave i don't seem to understand your point???

It is in response to the previous post, and I am pointing out that the "multinationals" can only operate in any country as that country  allows them to. If these multinationals are misbehaving in Nigeria Nigeria has all the power it needs to stop them doing so.

The problem is the same worldwide. Multinationals always do their business by getting politicians to favour them by the simple expedient of some form of bribery or other. This does not necessarily mean sums of money. Directorships and other favours are doled out. It is exactly the same in the UK but rather better concealed than it is in Nigeria. 

Read Mr president speaking in Abuja saying that Greed of people in government, as a result of corruption, is the greatest reason we have not reached potential. I Sometimes wonder if our leaders actually know what the root of our problems is. I tend to think corruption is the result of where we are today but something must have given birth to its spread and "acceptance". A root cause analysis comes to mind.

(WARNING ! Not for the faint hearted)

http://www.tribune.com.ng/index.php/front-page-news/6858-rumbles-in-senate-over-disparity-in-allowances-senators-angry-with-principal-officers-over-jumbo-pay-greed-nigerias-number-one-problem-jonathan (http://www.tribune.com.ng/index.php/front-page-news/6858-rumbles-in-senate-over-disparity-in-allowances-senators-angry-with-principal-officers-over-jumbo-pay-greed-nigerias-number-one-problem-jonathan)

I read in a newspaper that Mr President has setup a facebook account and has already started getting inputs/advice from "ordinary" Nigerians on the way forward for the country. Most contributors seem to suggest that the immediate problem to be addressed should be electricity for obvious reasons. I, however, tend to think security requires more urgency than any other issue. I agree that we do have quite a number of high priorities to deal with, but with our meagre resources, including time, it is pertinent that we get the order right for maximum results.

Both are important. Security is one of the reasons there is no power in the country as the gas pipelines keep getting Vandalized.
Likewise lack of power is the cause of insecurity as the youth have no work to do so they resort to violence to make their ends meet.

It is just like the debate,which came first between the Chicken and the Egg.
All of Nigeria's problems are interconnected. Governance-indicipline-power-security-fair elections-corruption.
Its a chain.
I believe solving the power issue however,will solve half the problem. There will be economic growth and employment ETC.
I advise him to tackle power squarely and seriously.

At this point you probably need to bring in a huge, efficient power generating company from elsewhere and give it a ten year contract and a completely free hand answering directly to the President with guarantees of no corrupt interference to get Nigeria powered properly with an agenda of steadily transferring operation and management into Nigerian hands once the initial groundwork is done.

and on and on and on it goes. . . .we ll not get tired of pointing out d obvious, only they fall on deaf ears.

just for clarification, SULEMAN, u think nigeria has meagre resources? seriously?

ummatameem

Exactly! Nigeria by rights should be (is?)one of the world's richest countries. These riches have been squandered or stolen for over forty years.
What happens when the oil runs out?
From the middle belt up to the northern borders of Nigeria Nigeria could feed half of Africa in grain and supply all of Europe with all its vegetables. This potential has been squandered also as agricultural improvement - the countries greatest potential - has been ignored.
The huge groundnut programmes which were worth billions to the Nigerian economy were destroyed by idiotic government controls and the huge potential of the south,east and west in a huge variety of crops - coffee, banana, hardwoods,and all sorts of fruits etc etc etc never given any help or assistance.

God help Nigeria

@dave, exactemento! and amen to your prayer, may Allah give us the wisdom to use our abundant resources positevely and may HE give those greedy and corrupt officials the power to overcome their weaknesses and allow us to develop meaningfully and successfully. Amen

It is surprising that:
Nigeria ranks twenty fifth worldwide and first in Africa in farm output.
The agricultural sector accounts for over 26.8% of GDP and two-thirds of employment.
Agriculture has failed to keep pace with Nigeria's rapid population growth, so that the country, which once exported food, now relies on imports to sustain itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nigeria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nigeria)

When the oil runs out it will not be able to afford imported food.

Ummutameen,
Funny enough I have long held a view that we are not a rich country. Not yet anyway. Untapped resources does not equate to wealth as far as I am concerned. There is the potential, though, to convert same to wealth but unless the process is successfull then we cannot be called rich. The stats speek for themselves. I will not be harsh if I say the view that "Nigeria is Rich", is a wrong one held by many a Nigerian and unfortunately some even tend to think that no matter how much is stolen, there will still be something left in the coffers i.e the ocean never dries.
Interestingly, I also have a very differing view about "resources". Could you guess what I think is our country's biggest resource, which if developed will gurantee us a place in G20?

Quote from: Suleman on July 07, 2010, 11:09:42 AM
Could you guess what I think is our country's biggest resource, which if developed will gurantee us a place in G20?

1. Human?
2. Agric?
3. Solar power?

Your resources are not untapped. Billions of dollars of your resources have been syphoned off into the pockets and bank accounts of a handful of people for at least forty years.

Your biggest resources are of course your people and your land. Neither of them are being properly utilised.

Quote from: nasr19 on July 07, 2010, 07:54:43 PM

Quote from: Suleman on July 07, 2010, 11:09:42 AM
Could you guess what I think is our country's biggest resource, which if developed will gurantee us a place in G20?

1. Human?
2. Agric?
3. Solar power?

Bang on the Money Nasr, Human, people, whatever you call it is the biggest resource that we have and Dave you have actually accepted my point that the biggest resource remains untapped.

That is a no-brainer; every country's biggest resource is its human resource. I don't know what you mean by "untapped" in this context, but I believe the  problem with Nigeria's people is the mentality and the orientation. Whenever this is changed to a positive direction, things would begin to look up.

Of course our biggest resource is our population.
Sadly though the populace do not believe in themselves nor the government.
In my own opinion,we over rely on government and see only its fault (not that the govt is faultless) but the greater majority of the populace depend on government to solve very problem without the co-operation of the people.

I was reading an interview with the CBN governor and he lamented the way the N200billion agriculture fund is not being utilized by small scale farmers. It has reached to a level where the CBN has guaranteed the loans given by the commercial banks to the local farmers. Before, the small/local farmers cannot access the loans because of the harsh conditions meted out by the banks but now the CBN has issues simpler condition whereby farmers can access the loans through their co-operative societies. But still the funds are lying there,underutilized.
So here we are blaming government for not helping the sector and then here is government giving out money and people are not willing to collect.
I am confused.

I think if i had my way i would change the attitude of Nigerians from the typical cynical and pessimistic attitude to a rather positive and optimistic attitude.
With all the population we have,if we don't believe in ourselves and the nation then it is another wasted resource.

Quote from: bakangizo on July 08, 2010, 04:24:18 PM
I don't know what you mean by "untapped" in this context, but I believe the  problem with Nigeria's people is the mentality and the orientation. Whenever this is changed to a positive direction, things would begin to look up.

By 'untapped', I mean not fully utilised (developed to full potential). I believe the main purpose of any government is to provide the enabling environment for its people to develop their various potentials. Take away the thought of 'basic necessities' and you will be amazed at how people can help themselves.

Quote from: gogannaka on July 08, 2010, 04:49:38 PM
Sadly though the populace do not believe in themselves nor the government.
In my own opinion,me over rely on government and see only its fault (not that the govt is faultless) but the greater majority of the populace depend on government to solve very problem without the co-operation of the people.

I think if i had my way i would change the attitude of Nigerians from the typical cynical and pessimistic attitude to a rather positive and optimistic attitude.
With all the population we have,if we don't believe in ourselves and the nation then it is another wasted resource.

Again, this is only as a result of leadership failure. I class mankind into 2 simple groups. The leadership and the followership. Every man is a natural follower and only a few are born with strong leadership capabilities. Leadership in this sense, the ability to develop human potential. Most of our so called leaders have had one common trait and that is selfishness. If the people are cynical and pessimistic, then it is down to years of misrule and unfulfilled promisses.
I'll use Kano state as a casing study to elaborate. I can see 4 classes of leaders in Kano. The politicians, the 'masu sarauta', the western educated and the ulama. Each one of these, has got a followership who are looking upto their leader(s) for guidance, encouragement, direction, e.t.c. I have been asking myself, which one of these groups would I regard as a succsessfull model of leadership? None in my view. All have failed their constituents in the provision of good leadership.

Quote from: Suleman on July 09, 2010, 10:23:26 AM

Quote from: bakangizo on July 08, 2010, 04:24:18 PM
I don't know what you mean by "untapped" in this context, but I believe the  problem with Nigeria's people is the mentality and the orientation. Whenever this is changed to a positive direction, things would begin to look up.

By 'untapped', I mean not fully utilised (developed to full potential). I believe the main purpose of any government is to provide the enabling environment for its people to develop their various potentials. Take away the thought of 'basic necessities' and you will be amazed at how people can help themselves.

Then you are no longer talking about the development (or realisation) of human resource potentials. I think to a reasonable extent, Nigeria's human resource is highly developed. And highly tapped, for that matter. Only in a negative way. The issue really is that of orientation. Like goga said, do away with pessimism and overreliance on the govt to do anything and everything for us. In anycase, we might be talking about the same thing in a different way ;)

A friend of mine once made an observation while we were discussing the over reliance on government to do everything.He gave me an example.
Wai mutum ne a kasuwa zai siyo tsire da pure water. Ya ci dadin shi shi kadai and idan ya gama sai ya wullar da takardar da leda a kan titi don gwamnati ta zo ta kwashe. Idan bata kwashe ba kuma a zage ta. Duk da cewa baya biyan haraji

SULEIMAN im sure ur question has been answered, so i neednt say more, its simple, we have resources that we dont use properly, so we dont see any benefits, but it ll change IA. and what u guys have been doing here is a good indication that change is near, amen!

Bakangizo, I believe when you say "I think to a reasonable extent, Nigeria's human resource is highly developed. And highly tapped, for that matter. Only in a negative way." you actually mean labour. In my view a country with a "highly" developed human resource should not have the illiteracy rate we currently have. It is all about developing the individual to think for himself. No doubt out of over 140 million people in Nigeria, God has given us the Einsteins, the Warren Buffets, more of Sardauna of sokoto and many others, who at the moment, are so impoverished, that all that occupies their able minds is the next meal and where to safely put their heads for the night. Even amongst the hundreds of thousands of graduates we produce each year, I wonder how many (what percentage rather) have actually thought, 'right in the absence of a job, I shall create one for myself and others'. It is really depressing. The system produces dependants and supports dependancy. Very few defy the odds and have the courage and confidence to actually think of utilising their god given talent to achieve their aim in life. I shall reiterate once more that the purpose of any government is to, in my view, 'provide an enabling environment for the people to develop', in other words achieve their respective potential.

each time i come across a debate that has to do with identifying possible
solutions to nigeria's numerous problem i become more confuse as to where
the problem is?

everyone will tell you the same story - unwillingness of the government to
implement people oriented programs and or unwillingness of the nigerian
man to do as it is expected of him.

as i grow, i begin to realise that, you cannot separate 'government' and
'nigerians', it is always the nigerian man that becomes minister that will
approve a plot meant for commercial purposes to be used for residential
and it is the same nigerian man that will revoke it later - confusion.

madam dora akunyili has been busy trying to justify the budgeted millions
set aside for campaigning her pet project ''re-branding nigeria'' and to my
dissappointment, huge sums of money are spent were it is never suppose
to be spent - you can imagine spending millions on the production of
campaign posters, flyers, t-shirts, face-caps, jingles and what have you.
the re-branding campaign was recently launched in maiduguri, meant to
cover for the whole of borno state at a hall that could only accommodate
note more than 200 people, and all the 200 people are drawn from government
offices and other top giant private corporations not minding if really the
hungry man at the grassroot is not a target of rebranding.

i always say: the whole system needs overhauling, everything about nigeria
needs formating to start a fresh if we are to expect results, else, na only
recycling we go dey do as we dey see now.

Gaskiya nigeria's problem cannot just be explained away in a few sentences, I agree with you. But back to the earlier responses on this, the biggest issue is corruption. And corruption does not just stopped at the doorsteps of government officials. It involves everybody - from teh president down to the commonest man on the street. Corruption is not only about stealing public funds. It covers everything from the president stealing from govt coffers down to that fuel attendant that pinched off a litre/half a litre of petrol from you when you go to fill your car tank, due to tampered fuel pump. And me think that's very crucial - meaning the average nigerian believes only the govt officials are corrupts. He/She would cheat you when you go to the market, dilute or adultrate products and still have the gut to sit down and abuse the govt. Their excuse? It is the govt that cause it? A pity, really.

A very good point, Bakangizo

But the common man takes his example from his leaders.
And if the police are not up to the job and the churches and mosques are full of thieves where does society go?

Nigeria is a mess at the moment. We tell ourselves that we have no one to blame but us. We forget that we are sometimes just puppets being pulled by the strings of Western Interests.

When we were a young nation just out of colonialism, we had the best leaders who had the best interests of their subjects or the ppl they serve at heart. Yes I am talking about Tafawa Balewa, Sardauna, Zik, Ironsi Awolowo etc. They were set to make Nigeria a great and wealthy nation. But what happened? They were cut down in their tracks!! Out of the five I mentioned, three were murdered in cold blood and when all is said and done the dastardly deeds happened so that a wealthy, well educated and resource rich Nigeria did not become a threat to future Western interests.  Whenever an African country gets nationalist leaders, they are mown down in their prime. What happened to Kwame Nkruma or Patrice Lumumba or Gamel AbdunNasir  or others like them whom I dont know about?

Why was the Gowon regime allowed to stay for nine yrs without interference? It was because Gowon was a very ineffective leader where development was concerned. His reign was peaceful because nothing profound or fundamental was  achieved in total. Nigeria was relatively wealthy, we still had our groundnut pyramids then, the OPEC cartel had been instituted and the Nigerian currency was stronger than the dollar and just as potent as the pound sterling. Corruption was of course occurring just as it did today, but more assiduously and many ppl didnt really notice because the average Nigerian of the time can afford to live relatively comfortably being that food  and other exports were cheap. I remember being very sick when I was about 8 yrs old in the 70s, and I was taken to Nassarawa hospital and treated for Malaria. To restore my appetite, my dad went and bought a whole carton of canned peak milk and soaked up pieces of bread and fed me on that. The can of peak milk then couldnt have been more than 1.5 to 2 pence (or their Kobo equivalent now). So you can see that the most average of average Nigerians was able to afford basic food commodities and other things (not now!!)


Gowon was not a visionary leader (he was once reported to have said that Nigeria had so much money that it didnt know what to do with it!! meaning he didnt know how to utilize it to the best advantage of the ppl!!! Gowon allegedly went around giving money gratis to other nations. I even heard that HK was a beneficiary of such largesse once upon a time. But look at where HK is now! We can hardly hope to compete with that small island at present!!). As a result of Gowon's  inertia, he was allowed to stay by the invisible powers in control.

When Murtala took over from him and decided to be anti western, he was assassinated by no less than the CIA, which was in the habit of ridding itself of any leader that didn't tow its line or whose feet got bigger than the boots he was allowed to wear). It is reported that Murtala  was one of the last presidents to be assassinated by the CIA. President Ford was going to sign an Act that will prohibit the CIA from assassinating foreign presidents. Ford was requested to wait until the CIA did one last job. He acquiesced and  General Murtala was taken out of the equation together with God Knows who else. Afterwards, the bill or act was passed through.


We got OBJ in the stead of  Murtala. What was interesting about the choice of OBJ was that  he was reported to be on very good terms with the CIA at the time. Whether he had a hand in getting rid of Murtala is debatable, but he was certainly very much in company and at home with the folks at Langley, Virginia.


Of course we got "democracy" the national treasure of the CIA and the bedrock of the American way of life. In 1979, our first elected president was sworn into office. His term lasted just long enough for some honest anti nonsense Nigerians like Buhari to realize that we were going down the wrong drain both economically and corruption wise. There is a minister of that second republic(?) who was alleged to have commented that until Nigerians started eating/ scavenging from street trash, he would never agree that Nigerians were hungry or poor! (Well 30 yrs down the line, it has come to that!!) There was also a minister who commented on TV that cars were not for the Nigerian masses, (meaning that they were a luxury item –huh- ) at the time when Nigerians could no longer afford to buy brand new vehicles.

Well anyway, when Buhari and Co assumed power, they had the good intention of turning the country round for the better. Their campaigns of War Against Indiscipline  actually worked.  One could feel the country was shaping up. There was a certain feel in the atmosphere. Ppl went to work on time to avoid being disgraced. Hoarded commodities which created artificial scarcity and inflation were forced out of ware houses and silos and the perpetrators were jailed. No favoritism was shown; all were treated equally before the law.

But what happened? Buhari's govt was toppled. Why? Well not so much for anything than the fact that if Nigerians continued along that path of enforced discipline, there was every reason to believe that they would actually imbibe that discipline and become a potent resource to be eventually reckoned with on the world stage. That was something that must not be allowed to happen. So Buhari's govt had to go! According to the puppet masters, better a bad military leadership than a good military leadership.


I honestly cannot remember that the West ever went berserk when IBB came to the fore. That was because he kowtowed to the West and adopted all of IMF's policies hook line and sinker when the proverbial carrot of an IMF loan was dangled before his dollar dazzled gaze! He made a total mess of everything including miscalculating the phenomenal popularity of the late Abiola, by allowing him to contest when he (IBB) was loath to hand the mantle of power to him as the successor to the presidency. Then he annulled the June 12th election when he realized that Abiola had the majority mandate over the other candidate and gave over to Abaca after a failed attempt to maintain  Ernest Shonekan as a puppet president.


Abaca was a no nonsense guy as well as possibly being anti IMF. All of a sudden there was this hue and cry over the military leadership in Nigeria. There were the imposition of sanctions and a pariah status on Nigeria by the Clinton administration. As a result of this, Abaca steered his focus from the West and brought China on board. Hence probably the start of the love affair between Nigeria and China and we probably pioneered this polygamous affair between other leaders and China across the African continent.

 Abaca was very much a nationalist and wanted what was good for the nation, although his detractors will never agree with this statement. But Biri yai kama da mutum according to the Hausa adage(?)/idiom(?)   I believe that Abacha wasn't a fan of the IMF and he actually got to peg the Naira at 80 to the dollar and kept inflation down and anchored to the ground. He was a good guy despite his rubs with Abiola. But he wasn't pro west and therefore he had to go. He died allegedly poisoned from a drink he had.


So here we are with the most corrupt set of public officials the world has ever seen, practicing a democracy about which we wear blinkers and refuse to admit that we are not even toddlers at it any more and our democracy is well past its infancy and toddler hood. At fifty we cant even call ourselves matasa for God's Sake!!!! Haba!!  Da haihuwar akuyoyi mukeyi, ai da yanzu mun tara jikokin tattaba kunnen mu!!!

The present corrupt set of Nigerians that we are lamenting about is nothing but the successful outcome of the years of deliberate suppression of the latent goodness of Nigerians through the nurturing of bad leaders over the good ones – something which at some level the average Nigerian had no control over, because it is  akin to the effect of the changes in global weather systems, that have been brought about by global warming. The cause originates externally from somewhere but  the impacts are felt negatively  thousands of miles from source.


What never fails to amaze me is just how blatantly the West flaunts its interests in our faces without the least regard for what will work for us or what's good for us in the long run! We must behave according to how it wants us to behave regardless of whether the outcome is good or bad and in most cases the outcomes favour them not us. To me, a good military leadership is way better than a bad democracy!! Buhari's tactics were dictatorial and heavy handed, but that was what we needed at the time (and still do).

I think Nigerians have got so unruly and undisciplined that one needs a proverbial hammer to panel beat them into decorum. We needed and still need to be told what to do in the harshest possible way, but with the proviso that the scolding cuts across all spectra of society, and especially the shorter wavelength regions where the hotshots reside!! However the West has refused to recognize this. The West decrees that we be soft pedalled by a set of democracy touting louts who come to fisticuffs inside the hallowed chambers of the National Assembly. These honorables should really be called dis-honorabble rousers, a name more in keeping with their calling as area boys/ yan daba or (what do they call them in Gombe state?) as they were forced on their electorates through threats and coerscion by that malignant tentacle called the PDP. This is what the West wants for us, misleading men who only get passionate to the point of criminality when they think the golden goose is being pulled out of their greasy grasping  paws. Heck we are not even soft pedalled as much as steamrollered out of life and livelihood! Allah Ya Kyauta dai.


So as far as I can decipher, we have bad leadership now, because we were never meant to have good ones, as they will conflict with the interests of the Western World. We have been successfully slotted into the niche that was designed for us 50 yrs or so back and our leaders are nothing more than the bitter fruits of that Grand Design. Now that the common man has been pushed to the end of his tether and he is getting wiser about the lay of the land so to speak, new ways to subjugate us are being conceived. Witness the new world order in which Nigeria is a labelled a harbour for terrorists and terrorist activities. This is part of the next Grand Design to keep us anchored in the dust of poverty and underdevelopment.
Watch out!!

Salam,

That lengthy reply by Husnaa reminds me of the old days. That's exactly the Aunty Husnaa we know. I'll peruse it and have my comment later, inshaAllah.

Sadly, I have rarely read such a lot of nonsense.
I have no time for the Americans who are the most destructive force in the world but Nigeria's failing are Nigeria' s and nobody elses.
Nigeria is bigger than every European country except Russia.
If Nigeria is being run by American elements it is only because Nigerians are in collusion with these Americans.

That is all - and excuses like Husnaa's are completely wrong.

Husnaa abeg dis ya tori get too much unsubstantiated myth mixed with half-truths. With the sole exception of Patrice Lumumba, all the other leaders you mentioned were largely propped up and/or brought down by their own inadequacies and follies with little foreign input. I think it is high time we stopped consoling ourselves by blaming the West. Ffrankly it gives the West too much credit, and and in a childish way relieves us of too much responsibility. This is the sort of argument that our grandparents and those who came of age during the independence era held dear to their hearts. It was the result of anti-colonial zeal and was understandable then, but after 50 years of indigenous misrule that frankly dwarfs that of our formers colonial masters, perhaps the time is ripe for us to admit some painful truths about ourselves.

How is it that Western interests are hell bent on putting us down, while at the same time hauling other nations from the gutters into modernity? For example, has Nigeria suffered more from world powers than Vietnam? By 1975, Vietnam had spent 116 years fighting brutal wars of survival  against the British, French, Japanese, Chinese and American goverments'. By war's end, 90% of its infrastructure was destroyed. But look where they are today - a nation that was facing food shortages 30 years ago is now world's second-largest exporter in rice. Its agricultural sector contributes 20 % of its GDP, has a growing service economy, and is rapidly industrializing thanks to growing FDI. I don't need to tell you where we are in comparison, though from natural observation we ought to have long been a industrialized food-basket. There is also the examples of South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, India, Singapore - nations that also suffered under colonialism and have their own tales of woe concerning Western exploitation, but are not the basketcases that we are today.

We are not the only nation that has subscribed to IMF - infact, last time I checked, hardly any African nations are among the top borrowers. Top borrowers such as Vietnam, Mexico and Brazil are forging ahead. Many countries borrow from IMF and some have been able to turn their economies around (Trinidad and Tobago comes to mind) - yet African nations who borrow less are the ones screaming the loudest. Why? Of course if IMF had denied us loans we would be screaming racism, yet now we are complaining that they forced loans down our throat to destroy us. Do we really have anyone other than ourselves to blame for the fact that we railroaded ourselves into a last resort scheme via economic mismanagement (and that is what the IMF is, a last resort lender), then we chopulate the money and find ourselves sinking in a bottomless pit of debt? Sometimes such complaints smack of childish naivete and ignorance about how the world works.

We are also not the only ones to have an 'alien' democratic system 'forced' on us -  if that statement is even correct. It happened to Japan after WWII - but do you hear the Japanese complaining today? Something similar happened to the Germans at the same time - are they crying blue murder as well? Ironically it is here that I slightly agree with you, in the sense that strong-arm rule is better placed in making the difficult decisions necessary for industrializing societies than classic Western-style democracies. But when we switched in the 60s to a military dictatorship, what happened?

The difference between Nigeria and all the other nations I have listed is that the latter have leaders with vision and hardworking technocrats at critical levels. We have not yet achieved that in Nigeria. Take the issue of corruption, which BakanGizo has again brought back to the forefront as our biggest problem. We frankly have not done enough to curb it, and there is hardly a point in our post-independence history that it seemed like we were. And as I said before, the roots of corruption go far beyond independence to precolonial times. As the British began to hand over power to Nigerians post WWII, corruption began to explode. There was a further explosion during the Gowon and Babangida regimes to the the sorry state we now find ourselves in. But the fact is that all industrialized nations - including Western ones - at some point in their history noticed the inhersent corrupt nature of their societies and took serious steps to curb it to manageable levels, and some like Singapore were able to achieve that withing a generation. We will have to bite the bullet and take similar steps to do the same. Nobody else will do it for us.

We had better grow old and  up to the way the world works. In this global village, no nation is an island. We are all connected and dependent on each other to survive. We need Western investment in order to develop our societies, whether we like the West or not. That investment isn't simply going to come out of the goodness of Western hearts - we have to create the conditions for that to happen. So we can either follow the examples of other nations that I listed or remain the footmat of the world. It is that simple.

Quote from: Dave_McEwan_Hill on July 15, 2010, 10:52:28 PM
Sadly, I have rarely read such a lot of nonsense.
I have no time for the Americans who are the most destructive force in the world but Nigeria's failing are Nigeria' s and nobody elses.
Nigeria is bigger than every European country except Russia.
If Nigeria is being run by American elements it is only because Nigerians are in collusion with these Americans.

That is all - and excuses like Husnaa's are completely wrong.

It was quite therapeutic though!! Besides what do you want, a peer reviewed article worthy of an A list journal? You aint getting it. If neither you nor Lionger believe me, it doesnt necessarily mean that there are no hard truths in what I wrote. We have different ways of looking at the same thing that is all. Neither is wrong. Depends on yr outlook!!

But the question still is ......are you grown-up enough to run your own country and look after yourselves - or do other people still control you.
If that is so, fifty years after independence, that is shameful.

Nigeria will remain in a mess until Nigeria takes full responsibility for Nigeria's problems and Nigeria's failures.

i am not one to go through lengthy posts, but are people still blaming d white man for our failures?

i recommend walter rodney's 'how europe underdeveloped africa', that book will clear any doubts we may harbour dat we r still under colonialism, we don pass dat stage i beg, any problems we have are ours, if we have help in creating those problems is bcos we allowed it.
besides i think d statute of limitation has expired on colonialism, come onnnnnnnnnnnn!

Quote from: ummutameem on July 17, 2010, 02:57:31 PM
i am not one to go through lengthy posts, but are people still blaming d white man for our failures?

i recommend walter rodney's 'how europe underdeveloped africa', that book will clear any doubts we may harbour dat we r still under colonialism, we don pass dat stage i beg, any problems we have are ours, if we have help in creating those problems is bcos we allowed it.
besides i think d statute of limitation has expired on colonialism, come onnnnnnnnnnnn!

Walter Rodney was a brilliant man no doubt; however I think he got many fundamental issues woefully wrong in his seminal work. The idea that imperialist European machinations from the late 15th century onwards is largely responsible for the present African underdevelopment is a very bad argument. This presupposes that African societies were actually headed towards anything like 'development' before Europeans came and 'ruined everything' - such an argument is not sustainable, as much as some would like to believe it. It was wrong at the time Rodney wrote his book in the early 70s and it should be even more obvious now that it is wrong, when after several decades of independence many African nations are yet to get their act together.

Well said,guys

@lionger, im refering to cap. 7 or 8 of d book, where he debunkd all his theories n blamed us for our failures, dats d beauty of d book actually, for me anyway

Good posts everyone, but I go with what lionger and Dave said. No matter how much we may want to blame the West for our misfortunes, bottomline is, 99% of the fault lies at our feet. Granted the Western ways may have corrupted our morals, but fact is the difference btw doing what is right and what is wrong is very clear. If really we do copy everything from there, how come we fail/refuse to copy their type of good governance? Why do we only copy bad things? Was is it the West that forced your LG Chairman, State Governor and President to steal the treasury clean? Are we saying up till this moment we, as a nation, do not what's good for us, and what's bad?

Our failure as a nation is our responsibility, no one else's. Both leadership and followership of this country has failed in thier responsibility. The leaders for failing to provide the purposeful and selfless leadership needed for to steer the country towards economic development. The followership failed in resisting bad governance. We either collude with them, excuse them or are too passive to resist and insist for better. Worse, we compete with them in corrupt behaviours, forgetting that the most important contribution the common man can give to his/her nation is to abhor, shun and resist bad behaviours as may be exhibited by the leaders. Not follow suit, as is the case here.

Without being a conspiracy theorist, I think there is little or no doubt that the western world have done and will continue to do whatever is necessary to "protect their interest". That not withstanding, other Nations have overcome that hurdle so why not us? The answer is surely within.
I suppose one of the major issues we have to deal with, as a society, is the issue of responsibilty. At the moment, most people agree that it is the responsibilty of the government to provide infrastructure, law and order and possibily even sustenance to its citizens, which is fair enough. What a lot of us do not feel is the responsiblity for the government itself. I would advocate a complete overhaul of the tax regime, such that every one pays tax one way or the other and no matter how small. This will force the citizens to (a) get off their back sides and be productive and (b) question every thing the government does cause its their money.

Suleman

Exactly. That is how democracies develop. "Democracy " may be thought of a a noble ideal. Actually its much more mundane than that.
What drives democarcy is the concept of "If he's getting it so should I"  or " If I and my family can't get the same opportunity as him and his family we must do something about it"

What prevents this in Nigeria and, in particular, in the north of Nigeria is the undue deference shown to rich and successful people.
Many are satisfied to get some crumbs from the big man's table

Quote from: ummutameem on July 17, 2010, 02:57:31 PM
i am not one to go through lengthy posts, but are people still blaming d white man for our failures?

i recommend walter rodney's 'how europe underdeveloped africa', that book will clear any doubts we may harbour dat we r still under colonialism, we don pass dat stage i beg, any problems we have are ours, if we have help in creating those problems is bcos we allowed it.
besides i think d statute of limitation has expired on colonialism, come onnnnnnnnnnnn!

Read the post first and then decide if there is a mention of a white man through out the essay.
and PS, there's more than one type of colonialism.............

Quote from: bakangizo on July 19, 2010, 05:55:13 PM
Good posts everyone, but I go with what lionger and Dave said. No matter how much we may want to blame the West for our misfortunes, bottomline is, 99% of the fault lies at our feet. Granted the Western ways may have corrupted our morals, but fact is the difference btw doing what is right and what is wrong is very clear. If really we do copy everything from there, how come we fail/refuse to copy their type of good governance? Why do we only copy bad things? Was is it the West that forced your LG Chairman, State Governor and President to steal the treasury clean? Are we saying up till this moment we, as a nation, do not what's good for us, and what's bad?

Our failure as a nation is our responsibility, no one else's. Both leadership and followership of this country has failed in thier responsibility. The leaders for failing to provide the purposeful and selfless leadership needed for to steer the country towards economic development. The followership failed in resisting bad governance. We either collude with them, excuse them or are too passive to resist and insist for better. Worse, we compete with them in corrupt behaviours, forgetting that the most important contribution the common man can give to his/her nation is to abhor, shun and resist bad behaviours as may be exhibited by the leaders. Not follow suit, as is the case here.

Well I am surprised that u do actually believe that there is bad leadership in this country going by the way you see red when ever Shekarau's lack of leadership is alluded to.

Quote from: Dave_McEwan_Hill on July 16, 2010, 12:24:35 PM
But the question still is ......are you grown-up enough to run your own country and look after yourselves - or do other people still control you.
If that is so, fifty years after independence, that is shameful.

Nigeria will remain in a mess until Nigeria takes full responsibility for Nigeria's problems and Nigeria's failures.

Well arm chair critic, I am taking umbrage at yr tone. Behave urself  Mai Gemu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I always behave myself nowadays. Too old sadly to do otherwise.
And the beard is now white. Is that "farin gemu"?

Hey,

It has been quite sometimes I wanted to make a reply to this, or particularly Husnaa's lengthy reply and the replies it calls forth in this thread. Let me jam the gun, as they say, by, from the onset, stating (that) I am 50/50% with both sides—those who view the cause(s) of our persisting and festering problem is we Nigerians, and no one else'; and those (or Husnaa alone) who sees the West or Western countries as the root cause of our problem. Each argument is but based, reasonable and justifiable; though the latter is veiled with unstated reality while the former is explicit.

Let us examine both cases carefully:

I feel it's rather pertinent by preamble to state how 20th century Africa is categorized by Horace Campbell (2010). He divides that into 5 sequential categories, according to the occurrences of the events:

●Traditions of enslavement, colonization and partition
● 1900-1925 Unfinished partitioning and war
●1925-1945 Depression and war
●1950-1975 Decolonization and independence
●1975-2000 Anti-apartheid victories

(The scope of the issue being discussed is expanded because Nigeria accounts for over half of West Africa's population).

I beseech you to look at the aforementioned, reflect back and ponder the present. I know one shall understand that whatever Western nations are accused of doing or masterminding concerning Africa's affair is nothing surprising or unbelievable. They had us for virtually a whole century, so to speak. They still have us to some extent, as outlined Husnaa.

More-over, look at the interlocking crisis that bedeviled Africa ranging from religious, democracy, capitalist (recession and depression), energy, name the rest. That reminds me of the famous words of Desmond Tutu that West "condemns Africa to incineration".

For a typical example: Niger Delta militants are apparently sponsored by "interested foreign parties"; our crude oil is still refined in foreign shores; our leaders do solely rely on what their mentors tell them to do from outside, for e.g. number of barrel to produce per day; even the country in spite of all the monies it has in treasury still go to foreign banks for loan, etc. West remain a puppeteer of our many internal matters.

Yet (a big yet!), all these notwithstanding, we can (and ought to) fight against that foreign force. Resist the pressure, push back as practically done by many countries. For a typical example: the South Africa of today. No-one would dare trying comparing that wonderful country with Nigeria. Why? That's where the reasonableness of the other contention lies. We are, from this perspective, if not the constructors, the re-constructors of those problems.

Nigeria is an exceptional country in Africa, and its problem matchless. The country is endowed with virtually everything any country would hope for for it to strive and develop; yet it is confounded with problems that no country would hope for for it could lead to its death. Undeniably all that we lack is good leadership. Our leaders are only after enriching themselves, their kith and kin and nobody else. Their interest first, everything not even next but last.

Unless and until we have good leaders who are able to resist western influence and can render selfless, honest and dedicated service for their fatherland we will remain where we are, if not worsen.

Good post. Leadership is the key.

The most enduring legacy of colonialism is the disadvantages most African nations suffer as a result of being artificial constructs put together as "countries" for the convenience of the colonising power.
Thus Nigeria, which is a huge area of West Africa with many different nations inhabiting their own space in it, was arbitrarily knocked toether to facilitate British trade.
Only a very strong determination to understand and respect each others differences, whether they be tribal or religious, can make such a construct work. There has been a sad lack of such determination on many occasions and Islam and Chistianity, two religions, both honouring the same God, both drawn from the same testament and both apparently based on peace, charity and mutual respect, have been regularly used as the fuel in brutal and murderous behaviour in many parts of the Federation.

The setting up of multi-faith, multi-tribal Nigeria as a secular state was the only sensible way to set it on its way to Independence.
But even today there are those who are so blinded by religious intolerance that they cannot see this.

Quote from: HUSNAA on July 21, 2010, 06:13:50 PM
Well I am surprised that u do actually believe that there is bad leadership in this country going by the way you see red when ever Shekarau's lack of leadership is alluded to.

How many times do you dream of Shekarau per day? You are intoxicated by and abnormally sensitive to him, finding ways to always relate issues to him. This is a topic about the general leadership situation in the country, not any particular leader, yet you must mention him. Talk about cyber-stalking. ::) Careful, they say it's a thin line between hate and love!

You would want everyone here to believe that the sun rises from out of Buhari's a@*e, yet no one cares to pick up your posts on issues and link to him. Get off it. Ba girman ki bane.

Nice post Muhsin.

I fail to understand who is more corrupt in Nigeria.
The leaders or the masses.
When you take your tire to the vulcanizer,he will steal your valve cover.
When you buy fuel the attendants will cheat you( in some countries there are no attendants,you buy and take the money inside)
When you go to the market the trader will swindle you.
When you enter public transport the conductor will not give you your change until you insist.

Quote from: gogannaka on July 27, 2010, 11:24:37 AM
Nice post Muhsin.

I fail to understand who is more corrupt in Nigeria.
The leaders or the masses.
When you take your tire to the vulcanizer,he will steal your valve cover.
When you buy fuel the attendants will cheat you( in some countries there are no attendants,you buy and take the money inside)
When you go to the market the trader will swindle you.
When you enter public transport the conductor will not give you your change until you insist.

This is a no brainer. The leadership rot must have fuelled the decay in society. I mentioned earlier at the begining of this thread that 10/20 years ago, the rot that we see in our society today was not evident; not in its current magnitude. My theory goes that corrupt leadership resulted in poorly funded institutions (e.g the police) which then meant that they were ill equiped to fight crime. That just meant that the vulcanizer that you claim steals his clients property knows fully well that the police are incapable of dispensing justice and therefore he is very free to do what he wants with very little repercursions. The other law abiding citizens will see no benefit in following law and order which results in more people towing the line of 'do what you want with no consequences'. In the end people get used to doing the wrong thing that it seems odd for anyone to be seen to be doing the right thing.
Ba banza ba fa Allah ya saukar da hukunci ga wasu ire iren laifuffuka such as sata, kisan kai, etc. It may not reverse the action but it will deter others who might consider it at some point.
Allah ya kyauta.

Somehow a bit like the chicken-egg mystery here  ;D  Who started it first? Was it the leadership that messed up the nigerian people or the people got corrupted and then gave birth to the present crop of leaders? Who's responsible for the mess, or put differently, who should be responsible for correcting the wrong? The masses or the leadership? Can we trust the leadership in Nigeria to just change itself for the better?

QuoteSomehow a bit like the chicken-egg mystery here Who started it first? Was it the leadership that messed up the nigerian people or the people got corrupted and then gave birth to the present crop of leaders? Who's responsible for the mess, or put differently, who should be responsible for correcting the wrong? The masses or the leadership? Can we trust the leadership in Nigeria to just change itself for the better?

Well unless we really think our leaders fell from heaven, I think its pretty clear where the 'source' is.  I don't know how old Suleman is, but the claim that societal corruption was 'not as evident' 10/20 years ago is very shaly indeed. I already pointed out that Nigeria had already distinguished itself as one of the most corrupt nations in the world by the mid-90s. Now here is some documented evidence from an article written by Anthony Ebeh in 1994, which has been quoted by other scholars writing about corruption in Nigeria:

"In Nigeria corruption has grown alarmingly over the past two decades. During late colonial rule and the period of the first republic, corruption ran rampant first at the local and then at the regional and federal levels. It was perhaps most serious in the cocoa-rich Western region, where investigators found that the activities of a small clique of ruling-party politicians and businessmen had drained the Region's Marketing Board of more than 10 million naira, essentially bankrupting it in seven years. (One naira at that time was equivalent to approximately $1.35.) Throughout that period, government contracts, purchases, and loan programs were systematically manipulated to enrich political officials and the politically well connected."

I have have it in mind to post the entire artice if I can find it, just so that Suleman can be without a doubt that the problem of corruption did not suddenly creep up on us recently, but has been an every present concern as long as Nigeria has existed. This snippet that I have posted describes the explosion of corruption in Nigeria in its nascent stage. If we go back far enough into precolonial days, we will also find corrupt practices to be the norm of life - except that those complaining were of course not the Africans themselves, but European traders and explorers who were trying to set up trading relationships with them. It is wrong to claim that today's leaders are the primary cause of a problem that goes back long before their time.

As I said before, corrupt practises have existed within all cultures in the world from time immemorial, and in previous ages they were probably necessary for survival. But in this present age of post-industrial capitalism, such practises are deleterious to effective socio-economic growth. The solution as shown by countries like Singapore is strong, visioned leadership which will take the tough steps necessary in curbing corruption to manageable levels, as exists in the advanced nations.

Indeed, Lionger.

I came to Nigeria in 1972 and worked mainly in Government Service in Education until the mid eighties.
I remember my shock at finding I had to pay a bribe to even get my NEPA bill. If I didn't pay a bribe I didnt get the bill and therefore I couldn't pay it. When I didn't pay it my meter was taken away and sold to someone else and I had to pay a bribe to get another meter back. Instead I went to the Police Commissioner and I soon had a meter again. But most ordinary Nigerians wouldn't have been able to do that.
I remember an Asian man who appeared to have murdered his wife in Fagge. It cost him a couple of hundred Naira to avoid investigation.
There were many Nigerian leaders with so much sterling and dollar money in UK banks in the 1970s and 1980s that they were in a position to seriously destablise the value of the pound sterling.
I am very proud to say I never paid a bribe in fifteen years in Nigeria though I ended up several times in Police stations and having guns waved in front of me

Lionger

Corruption is an attribute of mankind and all it needs is a conducive environment for it to rear its ugly head. I have never heard of a 'corrupt free' nation; as a matter of fact it does not exist. The parameters that fuel corruption include (but not limited to) lack of repercursions/consequences as I have noted earlier. Who manages these instiutions that mete out justice? Your guess is as good as mine. The fact that Nigerians and indeed every human being on earth is prone to corruption is not the issue; the issue is containing corruption and dealing with it, which you will agree with me needs organisation and hence the important role that the leadership plays. That is what has failed because you cannot take out the corruption in human beings in my view. Corruption is only but a survival instinct carried too far.
Secondly, in your previous postings, you have mentioned the successes achieved by countries such as Singapore and the rest but I want to point out something about historical facts of movements that have changed people and Nations. I have not come across any successfull movement that was not led by an able, resolute, selfless and focused leader. 'Ka tuna fa in Allah ya so ya ceci al umma sai ya aiko musu da manzo'. Not that God in his infinite ability cannot change their hearts overnight.
Lastly I want to believe from your comments, that corruption has been as bad today as it was 10/20 years ago. Well I do not remember, in the 90's, buying fuel at a petrol station and the attendant stealing my change, as being the norm rather than the exception. Neither was it so rampant, the case of 'pass for favours', in our educational institutions. The argument is about the scale of corruption in the society and I maintain that in the last 10/20 years 'the exception then, has become the norm now', indicating a deterioration of our situation.

Again it comes round to a basic, central fact. You cannot have an incorrupt society (  or a society in which corruption is kept to managebale levels -correct, Suleman) without incorrupt leadership. All leaders should be "squeaky clean" as they describe it in the developed nations.

QuoteCorruption is an attribute of mankind and all it needs is a conducive environment for it to rear its ugly head. I have never heard of a 'corrupt free' nation; as a matter of fact it does not exist. The parameters that fuel corruption include (but not limited to) lack of repercursions/consequences as I have noted earlier. Who manages these instiutions that mete out justice? Your guess is as good as mine. The fact that Nigerians and indeed every human being on earth is prone to corruption is not the issue; the issue is containing corruption and dealing with it, which you will agree with me needs organisation and hence the important role that the leadership plays. That is what has failed because you cannot take out the corruption in human beings in my view. Corruption is only but a survival instinct carried too far.

Can accept this, ok. I said as much in my own posts.

QuoteSecondly, in your previous postings, you have mentioned the successes achieved by countries such as Singapore and the rest but I want to point out something about historical facts of movements that have changed people and Nations. I have not come across any successfull movement that was not led by an able, resolute, selfless and focused leader. 'Ka tuna fa in Allah ya so ya ceci al umma sai ya aiko musu da manzo'. Not that God in his infinite ability cannot change their hearts overnight.

Very true! My concern about Nigeria is that as presently constituted, such people will hardly ever smell the corridors of power.

QuoteLastly I want to believe from your comments, that corruption has been as bad today as it was 10/20 years ago. Well I do not remember, in the 90's, buying fuel at a petrol station and the attendant stealing my change, as being the norm rather than the exception. Neither was it so rampant, the case of 'pass for favours', in our educational institutions. The argument is about the scale of corruption in the society and I maintain that in the last 10/20 years 'the exception then, has become the norm now', indicating a deterioration of our situation.

Your personal experience notwwithstanding, it is ridiculous to assert that, as far as corruption in Nigeria goes, the norm now was the exception 20 years ago, at a time when observers had already noted that corruption had 'penetrated virtually every agency in the [Nigerian] public sector" (Ebeh, 1994). Since this was demonstrably the case 20 years ago, arguments about the 'scale' of corruption then as opposed to now is at best a moot academic exercise, and at worst, indicates that one has not quite come to terms with the true extent of the problem. Corruption has been a big problem since independence days and until now no-noe has done anything about it.

I have always advocated for single tenure for our elected executives, although the timing of the constitutional change in 2006 was mischieveous, I think now is a perfect time to resurrect that change. Going forward, all governors and the president should serve a 1 year single tenure of 5 years. That will go a long way in curbing this zoning agitation in addition to encouraging greater competition all timeround as contestants could plan for a post at anytime without having to wait for the incumbent to declare.   

I agree. It would also save us the trick most of these politicians play by leaving some projects unfinished, hinting that they would conclude them if/when they get re-elected. Two-term system work better, indeed is preferable, but just not in Nigeria.