What will prevent other tribes from seeking to establish their own nations? You do point out some interesting concepts but I must say that dividing Nigeria up is a step backwards.
There is little chance that other ethnic groups will not seek to seperate over real or imagined greviances. Whats more, in this age were the focus is on integration rather than seperation, going the way you suggest will not be beneficial to the separate entities. Take the model of Europe for example. It is gradually integrating into the EU because a united and diverse Europe means synergy.
For Nigeria to stand as The giant of Africa, She has to remain as she is and as stated in the constitution. The best thing to do is to woerk toward achieving harmony along the ethnic and religious lines.
My 2 kobo.
Waziri, quite frankly, i have been thinking about what you wrote, and here's my conclusion.
in case of a seperation or "partition", most likely it will be done on religeous basis, if not and its done on ethnic bases, both cases we can say good-bye to our sea/ocean, in that case......
1)its highly likely that south will make it very hard for us to trade, we'll be land-locked,
2)then we'll have our own "Kashmir" (that will be illorin) because illorin is yoruba but mostly muslim, the OPC would want illorin for themselves and we cannot accept giving away what we consider part of our "emirate".
3) for international trade "OPC REPUBLIC" will be out of question, we shouldnt even try to do trade through their ports.
4) "Biafra" has little infra-structure to accomodate our trade, though its likely the NDIGBO would be very helpfull, but we shouldnt forget that once they are a seperate nation, its their right to persue their nations intrests and that may include over-charging us for land and sea routes.
5) "Biafra" has 50/50% to like us or hate us, if they are wise and we are foolish, the NDIGBO might allow us sea-route if we allow their traders to freely trade within "Emirate of Northern Nigeria" (in that case we loose alot of money cos we cannot under-estimate the hard-working and business minded igbos). If they hate us.
6) After seperation THE NORTH MUST BUILD A "STATE OF THE ART" ARMY, WHICH CAN TAKE ON ANY ENEMY HOWEVER STRONG. in todays world we cannot make an army by merely giving them rifles, we must build a poweful army, and we must become a nation that can produce its own LETHAL weaponry(like Pakistan). Thats because we should not under-estimate the political scenario after seperation, there will be hatred and "oil money" can buy countries and can build armies (we dont have oil, or it hasnt been found in suitable quantities)
THE REMEDY;-
1) In case of the nation goes three ways, lets say the south becomes our bitter enemy, we have to manouver, we must use benin republic (which likely would be pro "OPC" because they have cultural ties)
2) Use Cameroun either through "BIAFRA" or through cameroun, but cameroun wouldnt like that because of "BAKASSI" and dont forget, bakassi will come the EMIRATES WAY, Even if Cameroun does allow us access to sea-ports, we might be charged taxes and make trade hard.
3) Use Calabar, calabar is not igbo as such "if" it survives as a seperate nation (unlikely so) and isnt engulfed by biafra, we might be looking at a close ally, calabar has traditionally been pro-north, for that we will have to develop their port and it will be in our best intrest to have a navy to guard that port. So we must have Emirate's Army presence.
4) Something that we would be grateful if the government of Niger Republic agrees, What-ever happens, if the nation breaks, Emirates of Northern Nigeria must join Niger republic to become one. We must unite with Niger Rebulic, then we'll have access to the Libyan Border easy, If Niger Rep doesnt accept our proposal, we must build our own road through the Desert and guard it.
5) Gaddafi is a very unpredictable figure, 80% chances are he'll be helpfull, maybe he'll even want to join, in that case we have two scenarios,
5a) Probably the arab mentality might be in work, they might want to rule us or be think they are superior, which can form friction.
5b) We will have to invite trouble cos Gaddafi is highly anti-West and in case of unification, we will have to accept an image of a renigade state(according to west) in our early stages.
5c) if Gaddafi doesnt unite with us, we will face the same problem, no sea and going so far to libya for an ocean will make trade very difficult, cos
5ci) we make a long journey to libya through the treacherous desert of Sahara and then face taxes in Libya. In any case THE EMIRATES MUST MAKE A NAVY, to safe guard interests.
So as we can see, it is not going to be easy,
we will ahve to industrialise on a massive scale very rapidly to keep up with our hostile neighbours.
The example of Pakistan is very clear, this nation that has no and i mean no natural resource apart from GAS, and still this nation has become the strongest muslim nation on earth. they have nuclear bomb, and i am happy to break this news,
A muslim country has finally become part of the only 14 nations that make Sub-Marines, there's an old saying "there are only two things that make it to sea, one is a target and the other is a sub-marine,. Pakistan can now build, and sell sub-marines, :).
i'll be waiting for a reply.
Amma Danbanza ka burge ni. Not for what you said but for your name and the matrix thing. Is that your picture or what, it looks to me like one hausa movie star, forgot the name, are you him and please tell me how you did the matrix thing.
Thank you
The legendary Waziri :D,
It's not surprising that self-determination (separation of a state into ethnic lines) is the mirage to the desert of a failed nation-state. In our miserable condition it looks like paradise, whereas it is not upon closer examination. Sometime ago on another thread on the same subject I gave this reply to Egede1:
Quote'It always seems like a great idea for everyone to go his own way, esp. when things are going well in the country, but exactly how many sections will Nigeria break into? Just two or three? The Yoruba and Igbo are bitter political rivals to this day, why would they want to stay together? And if they do break up, why would the Ibibio man want to be 'marginalized' by the Igbo? Or the idoma man by the yoruba? What will happen to the bini people? Will Nigeria break into more than 250 states, the overwhelming majority way too small to fend for themselves? Isn't this a recipe for disaster?
Since you have chosen Europe as a model, look at what has become of the Balkans over the last century and esp. the last decade. What a waste!
European countries have actually started to bring down nationalistic walls through economic intergration aka EU. This has yielded great benefits for the member nations, goals the recently inaugurated African Union is aiming at.Our world is becoming smaller and smaller. This is not the time to scatter, this is the time to unite!
al hamza
lol dis yor post e get as e be, i don't even know where to start. Obviously the most important thing to for the North to build up in your opinion is military strength, not improving the despicable condition of the masses, such as high illiteracy, non-existent infrastructure and social amenities. Or did u forget to include those?
So Pakistan is your model muslim country, what with their atomic bomb and all. Literacy rate is below 50% (even worse for the women), mortality rates are high, but its all good because they can build sub-marines now. Yet when the U.S. came knocking on the issue of muslim neighbor Afghanistan two years ago...
QuoteAmma Danbanza ka burge ni. Not for what you said but for your name and the matrix thing. Is that your picture or what, it looks to me like one hausa movie star, forgot the name, are you him and please tell me how you did the matrix thing.
Thank you
LOL! ;D No... thats not my picture (its blackthought of the roots). The matrix thing is done in photoshop...
Interesting replies we are having here,
They say, "intellectualism is the ability to simplify thoughts", let me try to see if I can be more explicit then.
You see lionger and Danbanza the point here is the present "integrated" Nigeria, is surviving at the expense of its ppl's misery, why? Because the load is too much and the diversity is the kind that is not likely to produce, in the near future, a crop of elite, with a similar worldview, that will be able to consolidate it self in the power corners and work for the benefit of the Nigerian public as highlighted in the above presentation.
For example, it is greatly unfounded to conclude that Obasanjo does not want to see a greater Nigeria or does not have the interest of the country at heart. No. But the truth of the matter is what he is presently doing is something that is pre-requisite to his continued stay in power. If he were to get people that will work sincerely like maybe Balarabe Musa as INEC chairman, Obasanjo wouldn't have succeeded himself in power and he would by now have been rotten in prison. And now that he won, if he should allow judiciary to work well, the election will be annulled and he will equally rot in prison. This, plus the expected rebellion from the military, that can come at any time, which he also has to spare sometime trying to quench everyday. And you can see all these factors have the potential of wooing the sentiment of a particular section of the country against Obasanjo, Plus the Atiku factor that hopes to see him out of office. Please for God’s sake how will he be able to work for us? This is what leadership is in Nigeria. If you are to work sincerely with good ppl, you get ousted by the opposition, and finally land in the 'undiscovered country'.
And on the part of the masses, the present arrangement doesn't allow for situations where ppl's opinions assume prevalence. If you can remember during Abacha, his dictatorship succeeded only because the north, a particular section of the country shared his sentiments and as such could not rhyme with the Yoruba in their opposition, either on ground of religion or tribe, as a result we all bore the brunt. Now OBJ is not doing a good job but the Yoruba cannot not share the sentiments of the North to oppose him thoroughly as such we will all continue to bear the brunt. In any case, one section is always used to crush an opposition from another section even if that opposition is founded.
Yes, you are right lionger and DanBanza in saying, '' What will prevent other tribes from seeking to establish their own nations?" The hope is that after the peaceful separation, a sizeable chunk of the population will have similar worldview and therefore their emotions and opinions will not be easily manipulated to perpetuate mediocrity as I have highlighted above. They will find it easy to take the Georgian example when they have a military dictator like Abacha or Civilian one like Obasanjo. In both cases the Yoruba, if it were their nation only, they would have succeeded in their fight against Abacha, as well, the present North would have succeeded in their fight against OBJ. The other tribes or smaller units will naturally experience not much problem with the new arrangement because the masses of this country share something in common among themselves in spite of their differences, as such the emotions and the support of the majority of the citizenry will ultimately favour them and they can easily go with the rest to implement Geogia whenever the need arises. That is one.
And the second is the crop of elite are likely to share one similar worldview as such they can easily quench oppositions and settle in the corridors of power spending a greater portion of their time working for the benefit of their ppl not fighting opposition groups as is it now.
Yes, of course, the 'in thing' in modern world today is integration, as is being sought in Europe-- though I am not sure if it will appear in a form of federation we are having here, where power will reside with single person as president --- and I believe it is better for "interdependence is truly a higher value than independence".
But yet when integration perpetuates decadence and mediocrity as in the unhappy marriage of the present Nigerian nation the best solution should be to decouple or de-quadruple, for it is a criterion for a marriage to be a happy one. If it is not than the unhappiness should be within tolerance limit. If it is not as in the case of the present Nigeria, which doesn't give any promise or hope of any kind to its issues, then peaceful separation is the ultimate solution. We can then decide to choose our friends and foes alike, as Al Hamza pointed out though I believe an equitable stance can easily be reached among the separate entities that will down play the use of emotions and hate. The scenario as painted by Al- Hamza is not necessarily obtained.
Thats breaking it down. Lets bring up some issues highlighted by Al_Hamza, especially the realities of separation.
If Nigeria were to seperate into several independent states(3?4?), what will become of the north? Frankly, I see little to dream that it will equal or better the current Nigeria. More likely, the North will be in the bracket of Sudan, Niger, Mali. On the other hand, the East will prosper because of access to the sea and their innate commercial attribute. The South-West may also prosper because they are predominantly an educated lot and have better ties with the Ibos. Plus they do have Lagos. Lets not forget the oil is there as well.
Look at it this way DanBanza,
The present Nigeria doesn't give any hope or promise in every sense you can think of. For long we are made to believe, particularly those of us from the north, that Nigeria exists at our benefit, economic or otherwise. But the fact of the matter is we have been surviving long before oil is discovered. The ultimate in life is food, and the north has it, can make a fortune out of it.
But I agree with you that the first years of the separation will be very tough for the north. But yet in the course of time it will retrace back its steps and move forward. I think the oil money now is even what is making us lazy. Afterall it is a truce of life that nothing good comes easy. As I have highlighted earlier also, I do not foresee the coming up of the exact snerio painted by Al-Hamza. I believe there is going to be a sound working relationship among the separate entities. The separation should'nt mean hate. It has to be peaceful. Plus the fact that we all need one another.
And mark you, the separation is done only because it will give the leadership more focus than it is now. Now we are everyday going backward to nowhere. But after the separation we will start coming forward, forward, forward, perhaps to present Nigeria, and forward to Egypt, Malaysia or Europe. This is the point. Now, in spite of our immense resources both human and natural, over 70% of the population is living in the dark cell of penury. out of this 70%, 81% percent are residing in the northern part of this contry and no sign of prospect morally, economically and socially can be projected. Recently a circular from the Presidency came out directing all the federal university to increase their rent of hostels accomodations to 10,000 Naira per bed space. If your child is coming to University today, prepare for this. How then do you think the north can catch up?? It will be better if it starts up from the scratch.
This is the submission with which we started this thread. I don't know what is happening that it keeps going deleted. Maybe the webmaster should give us some assurance while he moves it to the beginning of the page. Though these things of technology nowadays come with lot of uncertaities but I pray we succeed in keeping it where it is supposed to be now.
Thank you and God bless
"For the 'elder' who I found wanting in thoughts and actions, right from childhood engaged in deeds that amplified my emotions. At home he taught me how to tell lies and make empty promises, by telling me lies and bungling every word of promise he uttered; he injected fear into my subconscious mind by using cane on me whenever I err no matter how simple the error is, there by hardening my heart, draining away the gift of compassion that God the almighty bestowed on me; at school he suppressed the natural confidence I have; infused inferiority complex in me, by making me to meeken my self to the level of degradation whenever I want to learn; sometimes after spending myriads of nights reading, I will still fail while the must beautiful but yet the dullest lady in my class will score distinction; In office he preferred those who will jump to stand still at his arrival than those who know how to do the job; in politics, I cannot sift the chaff from the grains of truth when he spoke.
If not for the bounties of the supreme architect of this universe on me; If not for the reverence I have for the womb in which I rested for nine months; If not for some verses on the pages of the Qur'an that demand that I should exercise emotional restraints, forgive when I am offended, wield my hand in kindness even if I am not requited, then I would have ended this write-up with the phrase 'Allah ya Isa' (Enough is Allah as a vengeance taker)."
The above is a quote from an article I have written at the celebration of my 20th birthday. The article was published in different forms, pamphlets and the pages of some of our local newspapers here. It enjoyed the attention of many and has provoked reactions of different colors. The article was a rejoinder to another writer who postulated that the younger generations of Nigerians must learn to brace themselves and put on the cloak of responsible people by understanding that our yore elders really worked for the unity and progress of the country. That of course is debatable and after dwelling much on what is common about all Nigerian youths, maintaining that the elder in general did not work for us, I found reason to conclude as above, believing that Nigeria can only assume focus and appear fully directional only when we start looking at our problems from psycho-social point of view.
Well, much water has passed under the bridge since it first saw the light of the day. While I continue to believe that addressing our problems from that angle can help in bringing together the Nigerian youths to a common or rather congruent worldview. I also have to have a re-think over the years. For the unhappy quadruple marriage of the Nigerian nation – Hausa-Fulani, Yoruba, Igbo and the fourth factor, constituting the rest of the almost 250 other tribes have proven to be the major source of our indirection.
When the hope is diversity is always a source of strength, citing example with countries like America where progress is achieved as a result of the diverse nature of the people of the country, which in my idealist point of view I hoped to achieve someday. The reality is where ever you see a meaningful progress and good and happy products, kids as in marriage, the couples enjoy a good understanding, value system, worldview or else, as in the case of America, power is concentrated in the hands of a few racial minority, who have a programme not only for America but for the entire world. Their powers transcend every boundary or barrier, that they are able to settle down in its corridors where they make others succumb to their wishes at will or at gunpoint.
This I believe is a universal phenomenon. In Malaysia, progress is achieved in spite of their diversity because power and all its trappings rests with only one tribe, that is the Malay, and above all in the hand of a strong personality who ruled the country for over 20yrs. He had settled over the period, quenched oppositions or made it impossible to happen because all the power brokers in the country share the same worldview.
In Nigeria it has not been the same, the power blocks are many and of different worldview, faith, orientation and value system. When a particular section or tribe is ruling, it has to spend more than half of its days planning on how to safeguard the throne, maintain control and quench oppositions than it spends implementing its work plan for the betterment of its people. And believe you me sincerely; this is done at the expense of we the Nigerian ppl. I can remember one opposition leader, when the Hausa-Fulani were ruling, from among the Yoruba Nation who found reason to prescribe that it is only when Nigeria get rid of the Hausa-Fulani, doing to them what the Hutu of Rwanda and Burundi are doing to the Tutsis we will never ever know anything peace. And this group, nation or race, as they call themselves, constitutes almost 30% of Nigerian population, also forming over 65% of the federal government workers. For God sake how can this group allow a leader they oppose to achieve anything of meaningful affiliation? This is also the same with other tribes or units, now that Obasanjo, a Yoruba “nationalist” is ruling, what you hear from other units and major tribes is what one cannot afford to repeat.
My newfound opinion now is Nigerian nation should find reason to separate peacefully. Maybe along regional lines. That will certainly bring together a sizeable number of populations into a cocoon of similar worldview, thereby reducing much opposition and power tussle that is always fought between power elites at the expense of the younger generations' misery. This argument does not promote hatred but cause us to rhyme with the laws and provisions of nature. For when a marriage is not producing the right and healthy fruits or survives at the expense of its issues' misery, divorce remains the only alternative. Especially when the divorce carries the potential of improving the life and perception of the already begotten issues. This is real for a marriage between couples as such we can easily conclude: much more real for a marriage among a quadruple.
QuoteWaziri, quite frankly, i have been thinking about what you wrote, and here's my conclusion.
in case of a seperation or "partition", most likely it will be done on religeous basis, if not and its done on ethnic bases, both cases we can say good-bye to our sea/ocean, in that case......
1)its highly likely that south will make it very hard for us to trade, we'll be land-locked,
2)then we'll have our own "Kashmir" (that will be illorin) because illorin is yoruba but mostly muslim, the OPC would want illorin for themselves and we cannot accept giving away what we consider part of our "emirate".
3) for international trade "OPC REPUBLIC" will be out of question, we shouldnt even try to do trade through their ports.
4) "Biafra" has little infra-structure to accomodate our trade, though its likely the NDIGBO would be very helpfull, but we shouldnt forget that once they are a seperate nation, its their right to persue their nations intrests and that may include over-charging us for land and sea routes.
5) "Biafra" has 50/50% to like us or hate us, if they are wise and we are foolish, the NDIGBO might allow us sea-route if we allow their traders to freely trade within "Emirate of Northern Nigeria" (in that case we loose alot of money cos we cannot under-estimate the hard-working and business minded igbos). If they hate us.
6) After seperation THE NORTH MUST BUILD A "STATE OF THE ART" ARMY, WHICH CAN TAKE ON ANY ENEMY HOWEVER STRONG. in todays world we cannot make an army by merely giving them rifles, we must build a poweful army, and we must become a nation that can produce its own LETHAL weaponry(like Pakistan). Thats because we should not under-estimate the political scenario after seperation, there will be hatred and "oil money" can buy countries and can build armies (we dont have oil, or it hasnt been found in suitable quantities)
? ?THE REMEDY;-
? ? ? 1) ? ? ?In case of the nation goes three ways, lets say the south becomes our bitter enemy, we have to manouver, we must use benin republic (which likely would be pro "OPC" because they have cultural ties)
2) Use Cameroun either through "BIAFRA" or through cameroun, but cameroun wouldnt like that because of "BAKASSI" and dont forget, bakassi will come the EMIRATES WAY, Even if Cameroun does allow us access to sea-ports, we might be charged taxes and make trade hard.
3) Use Calabar, calabar is not igbo as such "if" it survives as a seperate nation (unlikely so) and isnt engulfed by biafra, we might be looking at a close ally, calabar has traditionally been pro-north, for that we will have to develop their port and it will be in our best intrest to have a navy to guard that port. So we must have Emirate's Army presence.
4) Something that we would be grateful if the government of Niger Republic agrees, What-ever happens, if the nation breaks, Emirates of Northern Nigeria must join Niger republic to become one. We must unite with Niger Rebulic, then we'll have access to the Libyan Border easy, If Niger Rep doesnt accept our proposal, we must build our own road through the Desert and guard it.
5) Gaddafi is a very unpredictable figure, 80% chances are he'll be helpfull, maybe he'll even want to join, in that case we have two scenarios,
5a) Probably the arab mentality might be in work, they might want to rule us or be think they are superior, which can form friction.
5b) We will have to invite trouble cos Gaddafi is highly anti-West and in case of unification, we will have to accept an image of a renigade state(according to west) in our early stages.
5c) if Gaddafi doesnt unite with us, we will face the same problem, no sea and going so far to libya for an ocean will make trade very difficult, cos
5ci) we make a long journey to libya through the treacherous desert of Sahara and then face taxes in Libya. In any case THE EMIRATES MUST MAKE A NAVY, to safe guard interests.
So as we can see, it is not going to be easy,
we will ahve to industrialise on a massive scale very rapidly to keep up with our hostile neighbours.
The example of Pakistan is very clear, this nation that has no and i mean no natural resource apart from GAS, and still this nation has become the strongest muslim nation on earth. they have nuclear bomb, and i am happy to break this news,
A muslim country has finally become part of the only 14 nations that make Sub-Marines, there's an old saying "there are only two things that make it to sea, one is a target and the other is a sub-marine,. Pakistan can now build, and sell sub-marines, :).
i'll be waiting for a reply.
a classic case of d arse doing d job of d head.
Quote This is the submission with which we started this thread. I don't know what is happening that it keeps going deleted. Maybe the webmaster should give us some assurance while he moves it to the beginning of the page. Though these things of technology nowadays come with lot of uncertaities but I pray we succeed in keeping it where it is supposed to be now.
WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THAT YOU RE NOT SEEING CLEARY. WAZIRI EVEN THE FIRST POST YOU PLACED IS THERE IT HAS NOT BEEN DELETED, EVEN THIS ONE HAS NOT BEEN DELETED SO CALM DOWN......NOTHING IS HAPPENING EXCEPT THAT YOU ARE SEEING DOUBLE ;D :-/
1/2sy,
Ma only playmate at K-online. So kinanan da ban dariyanki ko?
Now bari muyi gwari gwari tunda naga kamar kwakwalwar ta dan dode yau.
I posted some thing with the above title and by mistake it got deleted. The title is there but one cannot reach it. Did u try it?
Then the webmaster communicated to me bout it. Then I posted the above one. Then DanBanza and others responded to it. Then I came and saw the response of DanBanza at the top not the original post. Then I re-posted it and solicited with the President to please move it to the top where it is sopposed to be.
Ok 1/2sy i think we r clear now.
Now 1/2sy who is not seeing very clear between me and you?
Who needs some calming down?
Lol!!
ma only playmate at K-online.
Bashir....... was i wrong when i said i show respect for those that deserve it?
Anyways, i wonder whats more important, being a muslim or being a nigerian, its a very very confusing line for many people, The place where we have called home, is the very place where we face delimas, Yorubas love to hate us, and we cannot forget that they are a large section of nigeria plus they are more advanced than us in commerce and industry,
What does that spell?
Probably the way things are going, North can forget of anything called power, in-fact now it seems the smell of power is many decades away, except something radical is done soon.
My generation has grown to university level, the generation before us, saw a few good days, and the generation b4 the previous one inherited a beautiful state,
My days have gone, by that i mean the time has gone where i would expect the state to do anything good for me, and presidency is still 20yrs ahead for my generation,
Who knows what would happen by then,
i am not a person that can predict future, but the way things are moving....... seems very much like a smooth excelent road leading to a ditch.
I want my children to call a state "home" which has a sound government and there are no diferences in tribes, there's nothing called race and they can look up to the authorities for help if their parents arent around.
I dont want my daughter/son to rebel cos i dont allow her/him to do sinneous acts.
a Seperate nigeria is a very very dificult task full of blood-shed, and i have said i would go very reluctantly for it in an earlier post,
in the end, i will just add,
" I prefer making decisions on reality basis, dreams are sweet but they lead nowhere"
QuoteBashir....... was i wrong when i said i show respect for those that deserve it?
am sorry about my comment. admin pls delete it.
quote author=al_hamza link=board=general;num=1071229581;start=0#12 date=12/17/03 at 15:42:38]
in the end, i will just add,
" I prefer making decisions on reality basis, dreams are sweet but they lead nowhere"
[/quote]
that post was wishful thinking alhamza. unite with libya? about d calabar n co uniting with us. do u think d average ibibio man has any affection for a bahaushe? i go there all d time.
for 20 years, d north held d following posts
-president, defense, foriegn affairs, police affairs, ig, cheifs of staff, power n steel, petroleum affairs, agriculture, solid minerals, internal affairs, customs n immigrations etc. what was done with dt opportunity? this alhamza is just a small taste of what marginalization feels like. imagine that we have been doing this to our fellow "nigerians" since independence. it wd b good if nigeria splits for d simple reason dt its not working n unity for d sake of d whiteman's borders isnt worth it. d odds of it happening peacefully r a toss up but well, ppl hav to die. one way or d other.
Quote
My days have gone, by that i mean the time has gone where i would expect the state to do anything good for me, and presidency is still 20yrs ahead for my generation,
Who knows what would happen by then,
i am not a person that can predict future, but the way things are moving....... seems very much like a smooth excelent road leading to a ditch.
Yes, this is the argument Al-Hamza. We harbour great concerns for Nigeria. Though our people have ruled it since time it is palpable that they have done if anything but little for their own ppl not to speak of the country in general.
This is not because they had not wished to accomplish anything but because they were unable because of the system, arrangement and the borders.
Our story since independence is a story of ruin and decadence and we do not know how it will be in future. As Gavrilo Pricip would say while serving his prison term, shortly before his death in 1918 after his attempt to liberate his ppl from the bondage of Austrian mornach:
The time drags on slowly
And there is nothing new
Things are as the were yesterday
and so they will be tomorrow
At our level, in our small ways, we have worked indefatigablly for the unity and harmonisation of this country's worldview since when we were on campus practising politics at the age of 17, to the extent that we suffered rejection severely from our own ppl.
If we are advocating for divorce now, i think we are doing it because we see no reason for our continued stay together.
Peaceful separation is possible. Czechlovakia achieved it. Now they are Czech and Slovakia independantly.
If anybody thinks the integrated nigeria should stay, we say to them,superior argument is our vehicle of reason. if they can not ride on it with us they do not expect us to agree with them.
And as i said earlier, cordiality is achievable among the separate entities as it is true in life that what sustains relationships is purely a child of interest. In the north here we have what it takes to negotiate with others at the level of interest.
Finally, Al-Hamza, in the realm of public opinion, you have to learn to understand that what hurts you or pleases you should remain under your control and absolute possesion. It is only and only then you can survive the heady crowd of opposition.
waziri, well said.
As you advocate for the separation of Nigeria, I believe a united Nigeria is necessary to be a successful nation - we die together or we die separately. The resources we have; natural and human, provide us with a synergic advantage.
Today, millions of southerners live and work in the north. Same with northerners living and working in the south. You'd prefer to think that the ethnic groups in nigeria generally dont have any chemistry but that is just the pessimistic outlook, resigned to acknowledging that Nigerians are different from each other as oil and water.
we all went to schools that contained people from the different tribes of nigeria and for the most part jelled well with them. So what stops the new generation of Nigerians from working toward achieving unity and equality among tribes? Simple, we keep on preaching the principles of superiority.
I never thought I'd be agreeing wid Danbanzan mutum, but I'll say nice work.I'm kinda late here, Nigeria...a sad story so far. At times I feel its insulting to be Nigerian, coz there is no Nigeria, Nigeria is a failure.Okay enough of my heart, here is my brain.
What we need is a rebirth, not splitting, Ideal principles not
sentiments, a powerful patriot on the number one seat, not
splitting the seats. what we need is a miracle.
Alhamzah,I feel u, I'm with u like, 110%. Lionger Nice points.
The legendary waziri, what makes you think of all miracles the divorce will be peaceful? We have seen cyprus,though much on religios beliefs yet if it weren't the power of Turkey and Greece...there is no saying what will be happening there. Slovakia and Czech republic may have succeeded because they eventually integrated into European states. The so called deleoped countries still want to develope. God knows the strength of the U.S is in their Largeness, despite the multiple types of people down there.
The China and Russian Federation aren't any different. That is
what Europe sees, and that gave us the birth of the E.U.
Nigeria is relatively a much smaller place, and the issue of the divorce needs adeqaute scanning. If We ever split up, do u think our problems are solved? or maybe we might not be lazy coz we might put this thing about "rivals" in our heads? Just like my latest friend danbanza said: We do not preach a gospel of unity among ourselves, its the Nigerian thing. Even among our friends, we are looking for the best of us in doing nothing. Our reluctance is a historical fact and it is our failure. It brought about lack of security not to mention ethnicity, it brought our curruption and it brought our failures.
What we should be looking at is towards one Nigeria, not OPC, or pro Northern Nation, If we split, by God our reluctance and a more integrated ethincity (e.g Hausa against the tivs or the sayys, igbo against the benins etc), National unawareness and insecurity, I dont care attitude of the Hausa and the Nigerian man in general is what will make us crash down into engulpment by another nation. Another colonialism.
We should try and work hard, drop some mentality that is still being built to concrete in our minds about the ethnic individuality.
We should understand our differences, likes and dislikes and work towards towards minimising and appreciating those differences. We need a new constitution. Besides, I dont think democracy really is the right government for us. I mean Democracy...the decoration of independence, the constitution, there are all a piece of paper with signatures on them. A peice of paper with signatures are called contracts. Contracts can be renogotiated at any time. This renegotiation results to presidents making laws of thier own sentiment or regional interests.
I think we should have a government with state gvernments then, sole administration and some one at th top of it all.
Something like what the u.s is having now. not exactly though.
What Nigeria lacks is unity, true. But you cant give present
Nigerians that unity by dividing them. We lack that in our hearts yes, but we cant even unite ourselves localy in communities and even schools which may have nothing to do with ethnicity. What do you say about that? If at all we will split, believe me it will get to a point that sides will lack recognised representatives, or at least that which they have faith in, evident division, Havok and Mayhem.
Waziri, I like ur theory and it just might work, but thats in a perfect world. I'm afraid the real world is far from being perfect my friend. I shall leave this here...
DanBanza, true to God it projects ill feelings to suggest a decision of the kind I have. This even to myself.
I have grown in a very liberal place like Kaduna. Lived in a mixed place, school in a mixed school and now I am earning my living in a mixed environment. Infact the Professor who signed my appointment and insisted on the procedure that led to my choice as the most succesful candidate was a Yoruba man.
Danbanza, my politics, vision and hope for a better nigeria based on principles trancending tribal and religious sentiments trace their History to no-when in my life. This we have proven in many papers we have presented in conferences. It also reflect through all the past articles I have written on the subject as I qouted in my first post initiating this thread. Please check this link you will see one:
http://www.gamji.com/NEWS2686.htm
Please go thrugh it, study me, and understand the way I was first before acquiring this newfound opinion.
But Yet their is a truth of life, leadership and the ways of garnering the support of crowds.
Theorists have for long elaborated on these aspects:
Leadership should always learn to appeal to the emotions of its subjects more than their reason. Because naturally a crowd contains more of a people that are suscetible to what they can see not what they can think out for themselves.
This is the reason why Ahmed Sani can gain support of the when he advocates for Shari'a even though the shari'a he practices doesn't reflect justice.
This is the way with leadership.
For those who are inclined towards misinterpreting our notion:
QuoteMy argument right from the outset was not tribal or religious but the fact that under this arrangement the leaders do not find it easy to consolidate themselves in the power corners so as to work for our development. And the emotions of the masses which is purely religious or tribal makes it easy for the elite to manipulate them for their own cynical ends.
I then concluded that a separation that will produce a large population that have a similar worldview is desired so that when the elite are up to a cheat a Georgia can be implemented. And on the part of the elite power tussle will be reduced that they may have reason to consolidate much in the power corner providing us with the best they can.
I am for long looking for an argument that will debunk this reality and give us some hope. We have dealt in our earlier posts with the questions of America and European Union and I think there is no need for me here to repeat ma self.
Thanks to you once more.
I remain loyal to our friendship, your fine wordings.
Salam All
I must confess iam replying to this topic even without reading the original post. What really caught my attention was the idea of "separating" of Nigera. in my own thinking such schism will bring nothing but more squalor for the lot of Nigerians.
If we are to look at the world today, we see globalization, the Euro Zone, ECOWAS, OAS, SADC, GCC and multitudes of other organizations trying to bridge that very divisive divide.
In short division is bad.
Waziri (zayyanu ???), what does one say about his relatives who fought and died (in the civil war) for the continued existence of Nigeria. I am sure you are aware there is virtually no Biafran city "liberated" where Northern blood was not shed. I am sure neither Murtala Muhammad nor Shehu Yar'adua ( both people you admire) would be pleased with your idea. For they are both wounded in civil war.
Having said that, one must also consider what benefit, if any, a separation of Nigeria would bring to the nation. Perhaps Sharia will be practiced more robustly without the fear of that monster leading the FG now. and also, the Niger deltans might have access to the resources, if the igbos would let them do that.
My conclusion is that while separation might be a great idea theoretically, its practocal implementaion is remotely achievable. What is needed in Nigeria is good governace, justice and accountablity.
Allah ya zaba mana abin da yafi alheri..................... amin
Bissalam
PS: Lionger, your selective synopsis of the pakistani situation is most hypocritical.
QuoteSalam All
I must confess iam replying to this topic even without reading the original post. What really caught my attention was the idea of "separating" Nigera. in my own thinking such schism will bring nothing but more squalor for the lot of Nigerians.
so you responded out of pure prejudice, without reading the arguments to digestion?
hajiya fati thanks for the prompt reply.
I wrote to register my protest against such a thought. and i am sure one is entitled to his prejudices or not?
Kapish. .
Bissalam
Allah ya sawwake
QuoteI wrote to register my protest against such a thought. and i am sure one is entitled to his prejudices or not?
That is right!! especially when you make sense and out of fair hearing from both sides.
Assalamu alaikum;
fati,
This is a little off topic, but I will like to take this opportunity to invite you and other guest to become a registered users of this forum please. This will help in our pursuit of creating a great forum full of useful discussions.
Haza wasalam,
Amin,
Lol what on earth are you talking about my friend? What do u mean? Did u even read al hamza's post, which I responded to? In the U.S. there are serious arguments over all the money being poured into the military at the expense of health care and education. Isn't that what I'm saying here? Isn't it a shame that a country has nucelar capabilities and yet 50% of the people can't read, and the majority are poor? Of course it can be explained (nuclear neighbor India), but is this the right situation for a muslim nation Amin?
If you're saying i'm selective cuz i chose only the bad aspects of pakistan and left the good (i guess that would be its 'growing' economy') then lets hear it; if not ur post leaves me hanging. I doubt u even know where i was coming from when i said that.
Waziri, Sir, I am with the crowd here. Though Nigeria is not my country but I think it should stay the way it is.
The laconic Humrah and Amin,
I believe this should be a sort of intellectual discourse where one is supposed to read an argument, digest it and appreciate by way of agreeing or disagreeing.
I am not imposing my opinions on anybody but yet I insist that the arguments I raised must be proven to be without any substance first before I should be expected to agree.
The ultimate question is according to your knowledge K-onliners, do u think that EU will form just one country, with one single president , with all the powers like it is now in Nigeria? Tell me no please, and I will tell you that EU is not an example that suits the details of this discourse.
Especially when we consider the fact that Scotland is today trying to gain its independence from Britain and Germany is enacting new laws that says: if one can prove genetically his/her Germanity from anywhere across the globe, that person will be awarded German citizenship.
Let you guys tell me that the problems with the structure as I have highlighted is not tenable and that with some debunking points.
Let you tell me that the present structure does not give much room for the manipulations of the emotions of the masses.
Let you tell me it DOES give the elite chance to work, contrary to my postulations.
Tell me that if we continue to stay together their is chance that we can transcend those bariers. And that of course with some valid postulations.
Then and only then I will find reason to pursue this discourse.
But here we have Amin saying EU, ECOWAS etc. Afterall he knows very well that, in life one is not suppose to just proceed and be doing things just for the simple reason that others are doing it like a fashion.
No, life, in its sociology, economy and politics is not like fashion which can be worn only to beautify one self. But life means, to live on, to survive.
Assalamu alaikum,
By and large, Nigeria is a complex and blessed country. We are lucky our fore-fathers/mothers were very prayerful otherwise we would have become another Rwanda sort-up.
Do you agree with me that:
1. Nigeria is cursed by having two resources, viz: Oil and O......?
2. The wild-wild West will remain wild forever, it seems,
3. The united-in-intent-but-divided-in-focus-East will continue to allow itself to be used and be detroyed by a join-venture between itself and the West,
4. The North will continue to pay the price of being complecent and having selfish leaders, but by Allah's willing things will change.
Let us all continue to pray to Allah (SWT) to guide and protect our Nigeria from some of us within.
I dont expect to be believed.
Wassalamu alaikum
My lengthy reply was killed by clicking on the RESET button!! Grrrrrhhh!
:( :-/
I will invest some time again when I have summoned enough will. ;D
Assalamu alaikum,
DBZ, I think we have enough of this. But DBZ you close or re-open the discussion.
EMTL
DanBanza,
I really am waiting for your reply pls, you surely know what it means to discuss.
Quote
6) After seperation THE NORTH MUST BUILD A "STATE OF THE ART" ARMY, WHICH CAN TAKE ON ANY ENEMY HOWEVER STRONG. in todays world we cannot make an army by merely giving them rifles, we must build a poweful army, and we must become a nation that can produce its own LETHAL weaponry(like Pakistan). Thats because we should not under-estimate the political scenario after seperation, there will be hatred and "oil money" can buy countries and can build armies (we dont have oil, or it hasnt been found in suitable quantities)
? ?THE REMEDY;-
? ? ? 1) ? ? ?In case of the nation goes three ways, lets say the south becomes our bitter enemy, we have to manouver, we must use benin republic (which likely would be pro "OPC" because they have cultural ties)
2) Use Cameroun either through "BIAFRA" or through cameroun, but cameroun wouldnt like that because of "BAKASSI" and dont forget, bakassi will come the EMIRATES WAY, Even if Cameroun does allow us access to sea-ports, we might be charged taxes and make trade hard.
3) Use Calabar, calabar is not igbo as such "if" it survives as a seperate nation (unlikely so) and isnt engulfed by biafra, we might be looking at a close ally, calabar has traditionally been pro-north, for that we will have to develop their port and it will be in our best intrest to have a navy to guard that port. So we must have Emirate's Army presence.
4) Something that we would be grateful if the government of Niger Republic agrees, What-ever happens, if the nation breaks, Emirates of Northern Nigeria must join Niger republic to become one. We must unite with Niger Rebulic, then we'll have access to the Libyan Border easy, If Niger Rep doesnt accept our proposal, we must build our own road through the Desert and guard it.
5a) Probably the arab mentality might be in work, they might want to rule us or be think they are superior, which can form friction.
5b) We will have to invite trouble cos Gaddafi is highly anti-West and in case of unification, we will have to accept an image of a renigade state(according to west) in our early stages.
5c) if Gaddafi doesnt unite with us, we will face the same problem, no sea and going so far to libya for an ocean will make trade very difficult, cos
5ci) we make a long journey to libya through the treacherous desert of Sahara and then face taxes in Libya. In any case THE EMIRATES MUST MAKE A NAVY, to safe guard interests.
So as we can see, it is not going to be easy,
we will ahve to industrialise on a massive scale very rapidly to keep up with our hostile neighbours.
The example of Pakistan is very clear, this nation that has no and i mean no natural resource apart from GAS, and still this nation has become the strongest muslim nation on earth. they have nuclear bomb, and i am happy to break this news,
A muslim country has finally become part of the only 14 nations that make Sub-Marines, there's an old saying "there are only two things that make it to sea, one is a target and the other is a sub-marine,. Pakistan can now build, and sell sub-marines, :).
i'll be waiting for a reply.
IN all your foolish thinking about how northerners should make armies and aspire to be like Pakistan what if the most powerful country in the world THE U.S.A decides to support your southern counterparts given that they have more wealth than the north will ever have in it's history what would u do then? Cos no matter how prepared you are the U.S Army is the best in the world, coupled with volunteering people of the OPc, Ndigbo and Calabar I don't think you'll be able to easily manipulate them as you think. You must think Calabarians are awfully stupid but that isn't going to happen. As for Gaddafi he is nothing but a puppet so if you're thinking of making a Hausa Nation, why not just join with Niger and form the muslim country you seek rather than think you're the only one whose thoughts would materialize as if the OPC, NDIGBOS and the rest will not form their own thing. Let Africa be in Peace, split and Go your own way...leave us alone!!!!
Quote
IN all your foolish thinking about how northerners should make armies and aspire to be like Pakistan what if the most powerful country in the world THE U.S.A decides to support your southern counterparts given that they have more wealth than the north will ever have in it's history what would u do then? Cos no matter how prepared you are the U.S Army is the best in the world, coupled with volunteering people of the OPc, Ndigbo and Calabar I don't think you'll be able to easily manipulate them as you think. You must think Calabarians are awfully stupid but that isn't going to happen. As for Gaddafi he is nothing but a puppet so if you're thinking of making a Hausa Nation, why not just join with Niger and form the muslim country you seek rather than ?think you're the only one whose thoughts would materialize as if the OPC, NDIGBOS and the rest will not form their own thing. Let Africa be in Peace, split and Go your own way...leave us alone!!!!
Assalamu alaikum,
As a guest you were unfair to yourself with your harsh comments. Here the members, i can see, respect other people's opinions without resorting to insults/harsh comments. However you are welcome.
I start by rendering my apologies to Waziri for this post, its not specifically engeneered for this thread, rather a response to something Rew posted that more or less fits the equation, i apologize to you waziri because i believe its somewhat lazy and unethustiatic not to invest time and energy in response to your intellectual views i will make the legitmate effort to avoid doing so in the future,
MK ULTRA A BRAIN CONTROLL METHOD !
I must admit that the last post before mine are the most distructive theories ive layed my eyes opon in ages! its unbelievable that a Nigerian will in the 21rst century seek refuge in such idologies, its even of a greater discomfort that such premitive ideas will exist in the minds of people who possess the ability to recieve and coprehend data, (in perticular)Rew, if u are at the very least aware of history any history old or recent u will find that your points above lack trace of any consideration of it,there exists many pre revolution sympthoms one of them is stimulants, when the chinese oppression reached its apex and the chinese ware ready to arise, the british flooded china with so much opium that the intire nation was intoxicated into submission but yet the chinese arised defeating both the drug and the oppressors, in the Moroccan revolution the french tryed thesame mechanism only they did it with hashish , so did the CIA with crack in the 60s, another sympthom is dissection of thought and and disposition of unity, the gearmans ware made so terrified of the communist parties that they ware ready to build a physical barrage dividing their own country into two cutting many families in half ,from after the world and at the birth of the cold war untill the year 1989 when the wall was finally destroyed, both south and north korea still suffer a great deal from such devisions,the colonisation of the African continent itself was not totally possible untill after the eventual division of it at the berlin conference ,the fear of economical and political crisis is what amplifies and fuels theories like yours not an intellectual and effective thinking if devolopment peace and stability is what u seek u will then find your theory in contradiction of your goals,this is just a cowardly lazy quick solution without any consideration of consiquencies, your thought is not even ORIGINAL but a recyclage of past thoughts from the likes of Ojukwu it was tryed and completely failed instead resulted in a civil war, i can grasp the stimulant of your theory as PETROL but isnt this the very cause of the distress throughout the middle east ? there is no single clan or tribe in nigeria that rakes the benefits of your natural resources alone this credit goes to few individuals representing many different tribes these individuals are your main problem, and if by all means u think that the division of your nation will mean that the south will then peacefully sit on wealth and live happily ever after then u need to pay a recent visit to reality !!!! i do not favor any tribe religion or part of Nigeria on the other, let this be known, but i do favor nigeria as a whole than anything,im forced to acknowledge that you are not necessarily processing your ideas rather a suggestive thinking is causing your prospective to take form, escapism being the easiest solution for you, the avrage hausa fulani or any other tribe in the north does not suffer any less than the avrage yoruba igbo of the south, they share thesame struggle and oppressor have thesame problems and are being exploited by thesame entities, to try and isolate a sector will be just an dishonourable attempt to escape responsibility thus liking it to a certain groop, tribalism is thesame as racism and xenophobia all three being major ingredients in conter-development ideologies,what many third world citezent fail to realise is: untill the masses take an indifinite responsibility and reclaim their nations in a collective manner then your natural resources means nothing and would only go to assist the growth of whatever state or corporate organisation holds the strings attached to your puppet leaders, although the forum has pushed this thought into a state of clich?ism i feel compelled to revisit the issue for i believe there is never too much good examples, Europe! a continent that seen and subjected their people and many other societies to more more bloodshed than all the rest of the world put together at any given time is now more or less united except for a few renegades like england who is yet to provide any concrete reason for doing so except for their arrogance and addiction to the royal image, as for the line:
"The truth is that your ancestry is more tied to The republic of Niger not the ethnic groups of Yoruba, Ibo and what you have it in southern Nigeria. I believe Nigeria must/should split so that you northerners can depend on yourselves and we southerners can also do for ourselves "
i should refrain from any comments on this for i believe that doing so will be a waste of my intellect and time, but i do have one simple question: pre slavery and colinisation where does the " republic of niger" end and the (in your words) the federal republic of yoruba and igbo starts ? its really unbelievable that some one can still even allow such thoughts tresspass his mental landscape !!! i will not conclude without further considering places where division stands as a key solution to the oppression of certain groups in examples like chechenia and Tibet but study the history of these places you will find that they all ware once an indipendent sectors that ware occupied by superior powers with the means of arms and such, provide me with an account where such event took place in nigeria, in which case i will then by all means support the federal republic of "Yoruba Igbo and Co."and if this division you seek is solely based on tribalism will u then include the republic of benin into the south or is it tottaly financial ? just curious