The Cartoons Depicting Mohammed the Prophet

[mallamt]

The uproar that has greeted the publishing of carttons depicting the prophet is not unexpected.  However this episode may have brought certain issues to fore.  In the debate on this matter, reference was made to the works of a cartoonist in Turkey who happens to be a muslim and enjoys creating caricatures of Jesus in his own publication.

Two important issues brought to the fore are 1) We seem to give a lot more importance to originators/founders of a faith than the God they tell us to worship.  There are probably more terrible material written and published by non believers about God than any of the founders of the two main religions (christianity and islam) yet that seems to be okay as no protest or very little reaction is seen. 2) What is this freedom of expression and how does it cater for different cultures? If creating and publishing caricatures or cartoons of Mohammed is ok in Denmark or wherever, how are muslims protected from such materials since it is not acceptable in their culture?  This concept of freedom of expression should we all as global members not have a say on what it really should be rather than the west tell us what it is?

[dan kauye]

Mallam T,this is an excellent thread...especially that you brought turkey up.I have never seen muslims who don't really give a d**m about Islam like them and this is coming from someone who has been there for more than a year.

Have you ever heard of a once Turkish figure ''Atratuk''? it's interesting to know that this man destroyed the religious lives of an 80 million muslim nation.He brought ''secularism'' to turkey..which explains why they do not regard religion,so,occasional blasphemous stuff  is to expected in Turkey.

uhm the second issue..i'll let the kanonline veterans  have a field day with it,i can't wait till replies starts pouring in this thread.So many question need to be dealt with.

[sammy]

Just to add to this topic, a Danish Tabloid published in one of its magazine editions a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed with a bomb on his head, and as usual, this sparked extreme anger and hit the raw nerve of Muslims throughout Europe and especially the middle east. The initial reaction to this 'distasteful' publication of the prophet's caricature by Saudi Arabia was to ban consumption of danish dairy products. The Danish government swiftly offered an apology but refused to condemn the tabloid.

Here was what the paper had to say in response to the growing protests by Muslims...

"Because no religious dogma can impose its view on a democratic and secular society, France Soir publishes the incriminated cartoons," the paper said.
Under a headline "Yes, we have the right to caricature God", the paper ran a front page cartoon with Buddha, the Christian and Jewish Gods and the Prophet Mohammed sitting on a cloud above Earth, with the Christian God saying: "Don't complain Mohammed, we've all been caricatured here."

As if disuaded from the reaction received so far, the same cartooned caricature have appeared in German, Norwegian and Icelandic papers as well.  This past week, Muslims in Palestine, and Syria went on rampage to drive home their anger by leading several protests and burning down the embassies of Denmark and Norway.

After looking at the caricature that has driven millions of Muslims into a frenzy, I was simply amused. It ought to be disturbing to any rational person why certain Muslims always react so insanely at the mere reference to the Prophet in any unpopular manner. Similar less flaterring depictions have been made about other religious patriachs like Christ, Buddha, etc and no incident followed thereafter. If Muslims in Denmark feel offended by the art, the least they can do is leave Denmark and Europe in protest. If Denmark has committed the crime by disrespecting Islam and the Prophet, why not simply boycott the place and relocate to Islamic nations only? This would definitely teach these Europeans to be more sensitive in future, wouldn't it?

For me as an observer, it is interesting how many times I have witnessed writers upon writers publish articles that are demeaning to other faiths. I have watced several documentaries intended on unravelling other religions as baseless. I have heard and read Muslims refer to other religions as false and use all kinds of funny sources to support their beliefs. One of such sources is the much circulated Da Vinchi Code, and other related materials published by anti religion authors. All of these materials and documentaries are openly aired on some of the most watched T.V channels on cable.

The most recent expose' by some historians, was a sudden new idea that the Christian Jesus was intimately involved with one of his female desciples, and that the romance was so steamy that it created a rift among his immediate followers. Documentaries like this ought to inflame Christians, but guess what? it does not. Despite this sort of negative publicity, you never find Christians or people of other faith take to the streets and cause destruction because their prophet was ridiculed.

What is so different about the Prophet Mohammed that causes Muslims to become so militant and in many cases blood thirsty the moment anything inglorious is said about Islam or the Prophet?

If people are so convinced that they practice a true religion ordained by the Creator, why the fear whenever it is put to any test? The intolerance of Muslims calls to question a lot of things.  Perhaps Islamists need a serious lesson in cultural and political maturity


Muslims need to wake up from their slumber party and realize that their entire behavior over the slightest provocation (if we can even characterize it as provocation) is abnormal and amounts to collective lunacy. The prophet was a man. He was not a God. He was just a man who claimed to be the messenger of Allah. With all due respect, he was no greater than preceeding Prophets of ancient times.  The prophet was not a flawless man either. He even acknwledged it.  So why do people kill, destroy and go on rampage on his behalf?

People who continually behave in this manner need some form of divine deliverance becuase it is apparent that someting else has taken control over them. This is beyond madness.

It is pointless to burn people's embassies in protest of any kind. If someone were to caricature my father, I would caricature his/her father in return if it bothers me that much.  People need to wake up.

[dan kauye]

I am sorry sammy,but you are very impulsive and stupid! that's the bottom line! You have erased whatever credibility you've had..which to be quite honest, is none!.Regious discussions are no doubt subject to considerable controvery,and critism is acceptable IF  it's ''constructive'' and ''rational'' BUT  saying stuff for the heck of it is juss blah! You need to know Islam and Muslims a little more than your perception on their ''slumbering on reality'' ,then you can decide to be irrational or otherwise! Muslims are truly misunderstood and the west does not want to understand Islam-that's the truth!

Do you recall any publication/write up written by a muslim in which other religions where ridiculed??? You go get your facts straight or shut up,as a matter of fact ,you don't belong in here.

And yeah,that cartoon really did irked every nerve out of every muslim..it's a big deal for Muslims..it's hair raising and earth shattering! and it's because we do have utmost respect our prophet.It's quite apparent(for whatever reason) that the cartoon was made on purpose and this explains why it was reproduced in several other publications around europe.

Islam does away and does not tolerate blasphemy of any kind,which on the other hand, is the order of the day for western world all in the name of 'freedom' and 'self expression'..the good news is that karma has her way of everything.!

No,i shudnt be responding to your ish and the rest of it is jus blah and needs not be dealt with.

Mallam T,please come in here..i want to know what you think of Turkey's stand as a truly Muslim state.

[sammy]

Dan Kauye,
Your reaction just confirms everything I said in my post.  Nope, I am far from stupid. The common sense I would have expected from you is educate me since I am so naive about Islam or at the very least engage me in a constructive and intellectual dialogue and make your case.  See? You've not made a point or told me anything new.

If it is possible, can you answe these questions for me.

1. Are you saying the drawing of the Prophet is blasphemy? If so, explain how. I thought man could only blasphame against God. Is the Prophet then on the same level as God?

2. You said Muslims are misunderstood by the west. How so? Can you explain? If Muslims are so misunderstood, can you explain where Muslims in the west can freely practice their religion, build their mosques, enjoy western  freedoms, yet in Islamic states , non Muslims can never be allowed similar rights?

3.  How is it that other religious figures are cartooned worse than Mohammed, yet the adherents of  other religions do not go insane? Is it that they have little regard fo their own prophet?

4. Are religious people not supposed to be different in action than non religions people? I thought the whole point of embracing a religion was to live a more righteous and purposeful life that is different from how unbelievers live their lives.  How does burning, rioting, destroying property, killing at the slightest provocation, and so on set Muslims aside from the rest of the "unbelieving" population?  The irony of it all is that a muslim like you profess the peacefulness of Islam. So how do you reconcil  peace and violent aggressive behavior rolled in one?

Does that make sense Dan Kauye?

I await your response. Thanks

[HUSNAA]

Sammy, do you know how you sound?
pompous, conceited and arrogant! If you want to be educated about Islam, you dont start out by insulting muslims and their beliefs and then expect to be timidly listened to!  
Yes the drawings of the prophet are a great blasphemy!!!!. HE IS A VERY SACRED PERSON AND MUST BE REVERED. No one living knows what the prophet looks like, so why try and give him a face and figure that doesnt belong to him? We are not like  christians who like to depict  a face for Isa Alaihissalam, when none of them have seen him even back then at the time of Paul, who is the true founder of the present kind of christianity. All the artists or painters who have ever given christ a face created a falsehood because they dont know what he looked like. We muslims will not follow suit and make up falsehoods about our prophet.
The prophet is not on the same level as God because nothing in the whole universe can ever equate to God simply because God is the Creator and as such nothing that is created can equal Him. But the prophet is the reason why you exist Sammy. The whole Universe was created because of the Prophet Mohammad. He was the first creation of God, even before Prophet Adam Alaihissalam. His Ruh or soul was placed as a star in the universe. The prophet of Islam was so loved by Allah that Allah issued a command saying innallaha wa malaikatuhu yu sallu allannabi. Ya ayuhallathina amanu, sallu alahi wasallimu taslima. Which translated approximately (as I am not well versed in the Quran and translation)
means 'Allah and His angels send greetings of peace to the prophet. Oh you who believe, send your sallaams (greetings of peace) to him''
As  muslims, a deep seated love for the prophet  forms part of our faith. So could you wonder if muslims reacted very strongly?
The deep love we have for the prophet doesnt begin to equal the love the prophet had and still has for his ummah- that is his community of believers. This community transcends time and the boundaries of nations because it includes every muslim who has ever lived on the surface of the earth and who will ever live in the future. He is the intercessor on the day of Judgement. No human being will enter paradise without the prophet's intercession.
If other adherents of other religions have so little regard for their prophets, then that is their business. The analogy I can give you here is that of a child who comes from a  home where he is taught manners and discipline and given love. He will grow up to have a lot of love regard and loyalty for his parents as opposed to a child who is brought up by irresponsible parents who think that the child is free to behave and do as he wishes, do you think that the child  will think twice about them when someone maligns them? No way! Because he has been brought up to think selfishly of himself so nothing matters to him except him. That is how I look at those other religious adherents who feel no loyalty to their leaders or prophets!
This misumderstanding of muslims in western society is nothing short of aversion to Islam and all it stands for. And it wont go away, until muslims once again gain back the upper hand  they lost, through their own folly. and even then, the aversion will just be sheathed, because Allah SWT in the Quran has informed us that the 'Jews and the Christians will never accept you until you follow their own way of life'? and what is the way of life of the jews and christians? open fornication, being gay  having same sex marriages, swearing and abusing your parents, becoming drug addicts, going on the streets half naked, mindlessly going on a killing spree and note the word 'mindless' what ever you call muslims, they kill out of provocation not just for the fun or heck of it. Is this what we should give up our religion for? This 'WESTERN WAY OF LIFE?'
Why did the danes or anyone think that they can get away with it? Its time muslims stopped being apologetic to anyone. Let who ever wants to, call muslims aggressive, violent, murderers and what ever . Violence is not the prerogative of muslims. Violence has existed since Cain killed Abel, and I dont know what and how you expect from ppl who have been pushed to the wall, and have nothing more to lose than their lives to react.  Even a doe strikes out when cornered by a lion. Violence is part of human nature so accept it. If there is no provocation, there wouldnt be violence.

[ummita]

I am sorry sammy,but you are very impulsive and stupid! that's the bottom line!

lolz, c'mon Dee.., calm down??let him speak, our forum is meant 4 discussions providing it is NOT offensive in nature. Dialogue cannot be, except wit d other; otherwise it will become a self dialogue & lose its meaning abi? Therefore d first condition for dialogue is acceptance of facts & cementing it wit ur opinion. In a multi-religion, multi-sectarians and multi-ethnicity world continuous, open & enlightened dialogue becomes a cardinal principle of human understanding, mutual respect & cooperation b/w ppl & nations though such view is not shared by all. Don?t worry Dee-Kay Kanoonline is a minefield for objections truthfully justified from fantastic responses by memberss . So since he wants knowing, we could tell him the little we know. Yer riger din ya dauka duka Muslim basu de hankali masu kyau fa. Do not give him chances 2 justify such allegations by using you as a statistic.
Lets all hold our emotiaonal hats and stop reactin. We are meant to overreact in shock!

[sammy]

Ok Husnaa,
My apology to all insulted Muslims.  I only asked anyone to respond to the question I posted up there, but rather than respond to each of the questions, you've taken this dialogue to a different dimension.  You've done well by telling me how I sound in my write up, now let me tell you how you sound.

Right off the bat, you jump to attacking Christianity and christians instead of focusing on the issue at hand.  You also admit that Islam is in competition not just against other World religions, but against Christianity specifically.  Is this the view that all Muslims share? I had no idea that religion had become a contest.  However because of your repeat persistence in gragging christianity into the issues of intolerance which in this case centers around Muslim reaction and behavior, I can only conclude that you appear to have a deep rooted fear for a religion that you consider inferior.

Again, expain how the drawing of the prophet equals to blaspemy. Do you not know the definition of blasphemy.  Dude, in religion, you cannot blasphame against a man. The prophet was a man, not a God.  You can blasphame against God, but not man. God is a spirit or supernatural being, man is not, and there is a clear difference.  

And the other thing,  I respectfully am not asking for a sermon here. Let us just discuss the issue on its merits if you will please.  

And with all due respect, I am not here on this planet because any prophet.  I do not know Mohammed from Adam, and neither do I believe in him or his doctrine, but I understand that there are people who do, and I respect their right to believe. What I do not respect is the fanatism of rampaging faithfuls who think they glorify their god by their actions of violence at the slightest reason.

If you truely believe that I am here because of Mohammed, explain to me in detail how that is. It is ridiculous to simply state that I am here on earth because of someone that died several centuries ago.  Here is what you had to say, let me quote you...

"Violence has existed since Cain killed Abel, and I dont know what and how you expect from ppl who have been pushed to the wall, and have nothing more to lose than their lives to react. Even a doe strikes out when cornered by a lion. Violence is part of human nature so accept it"

You are saying violence has existed since the time of Cain and Abel, so we should simply accept it. How ingenious! So since you are familiar with this account, let me ask you, after Cain was violent to his brother Abel, did God just turn a blind eye, and say...."Oh well, no big deal.  Cain, don't worry you action is just human nature, we are cool" Was that God's reaction?  Please tell me.

So now, can you respond to my questions number 2 and 4.

Thanks.

[ummita]

Sammy, I read your comments &  will try to say the little I know in a not very complex manner as you requested. Despite some inevitable consequences, my consensus is slightly in favor of the Muslims, not simply because am one but for the reason that my opinion on this subject matter MIGHT be considered understandable. No offence to you, but quite frankly what amuses me most is you seem to speak like one with the verbal capacity of a 2yr old and the mental capacity of a 5yr old! Though am sure am wrong but can you to simply answer this? How would you respond if I saw you walking along with your mother  and I start to target her making her the object of a funny caricature? More so, what would you do if I begin to call her names?bad names. Maybe I decided that what will be worse is if I made profane remarks at her, you know like  making a show out of her. Tell me, truly what will you do if you REALLY love your mum? On my part, if it was my own mum, (Phew!) I wont take it for granted & only God knows how I will retaliate.

Now why would they respond to a cartoon picture with such an outburst which shows disrespect to a Messeger of God? Are you seriously asking?!!!  Its just like beating a child and asking him why are you crying?

Given the example above, if I should disrespect your mum, you might not bypass it. If you don?t have a disparaging believe in God & you belong to the one of the famous religions on earth, am sure one of the necessitates is respect for God, only though that can you find your faith. Though if you don?t believe in that then seriously, it will be useless to proceed and read on. christians, jews, Hindus, buddhist, even atheism who have no belief in the existence of God, do have a belief in respect and if any blasphemy is made against any of these religions be it defamation, surely it will be deemed provocative & frowned upon. If most religions would do so, then yes surely Muslims have every right to show their revulsion .  The means to get at Muslims is by simply using a cartoon of which you considered of no big deal. Associating anything with Islam just for pleasurable gain is cosidered by Muslims absurd! We have woken up from our slumber parties but I urge you to get a reality check! (she smiles)

In my religion and that is according to a verse in our Holy books (Al-Ma?ida 55). God said our friends are Him alone and his Messenger and those who believe! He also said in (Surah-Al Baqrah 285): Believing in the teaching of the Prophet leads to the belief in the teaching of the preceding prophets which is one of the principles of Islam.
The are zillion reasons for so much resentfulness from that cartoon. Muslims believe in One, Unique, Incomparable God; in the Angels created by Him; in the prophets through whom His revelations were brought to mankind; No man can have complete authority over human destiny and in life after death only God. Muslims believe in a chain of prophets starting with Adam and including Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elias, Jonah, John the Baptist, and Jesus. But God's final message to man, a reconfirmation of the eternal message and a summing-up of all that has gone before was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) through Angel Gabriel. The Prophet was known for his truthfulness, generosity, religious mind,  and sincerity and his  position is much higher than any of the Prophets or Imams. Why? Because God chose so!
Now, maybe given the reasons above, you will come to realize that Muslims have as much regards for God and his Messenger and try as much as possible to keep it out of the plenty idiosyncrasies through respect, by upholding Islam in a very high stance. Perhaps the reason you don?t  regard it as a big issue it maybe some ppl with their cynical views don?t regard God to be of any importance in their life and this might have had an impact in your belief. So if a cartoon is being made of who Muslism serve or their revelators or the precedents they follow, surely, they will frown upon it. Only an imbecile who has believe in any of the known religions will find caricatures of the one they serve to be hilarious & will probably laugh & shrug off & the next day turn to him for salvation! (Imagine? !)

You should  note that such an outburst by some Muslims is due to the never ending mockery they are facing. The harshness, dey've withstood & now the intolerability of it all might have lead to violent protest.?I am not being biased to say that Muslims have been the subject of irrational behaviors such as:
1. labeling all Muslims as terrorist
2. Discrimination at the work place & public amenities
3. Unjust enrichment on Muslims
4. Promoting women to unveil from their pious model and simply turn into tarts!
5. Salman Rushie had his share, a defamatory novel on satanic verses
6. We have so many internet articles with transparent hate
7. Mortality rate in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, is unbelievable

I can go on & on?..the list is simply endless??..

These harsh treatments is fewer of the lesser evils applied onto a lot of Muslims. Have an open mind on this; tell me who in their right mental capacity in a time of tranquility would look for hostility? None, but if you say when hostility has been vested on someone who acts in response with aggression,  then who is to blame? Though pointing a finger is not what am trying to do to but bring your reasoning?s to rationalize a TINY BIT with your opinion.

Intentionally picking on a religion and knowing exactly what will hurt them and thus acting upon it, is my in view  crude, rude, & cold to make application of anything which would be injurious to a person reputation and that includes his values and beliefs. Acting with the knowledge that such a cartoonist is highly probable to raise fury from Muslims because the Messenger (PBUH) is regarded with great weight but nevertheless, acted upon it deliberately  just to practically import pleasurable gain.

To digress this issue abit, my uncle use to have six terrier dogs that were so big and dangerous due to the way they been trained as watch dogs. They were caged at all times. My cousins, nieces & I formed the habit of winding them up. We use to load up water guns, aim for their eyes & nose then splash them up. Their barking and fierceness of trying to rip the cage?gave us this exciting feeling and we would run off giggling with such sheer amusement of why would they not endure the process. Knowing they didn?t like it, the more we did it. It became like our little ritual, time & time again we would do it. One momentous day, we went about the usual torture and only God knows how one dog got out, leapt & ripped the skin off my cousin brothers arm.  And this is an animal?.we are talking about! Am saying????there is much a person can endure talk less of an animal regarded as not having a sense of its own. In as much as those dogs hate being disturbed and wound up, that is the same way humans and categorically, Muslims don?t like being disturbed by interrupting their religion. Picking on a religion like Islam in an unpleasing manner  will surely be responded against by loyal & devoted followers in different manners. Persons like me will endure it by praying to God others might make big outburst in protesting. Nothing irrational, just that temperamental level and the patience level of ppl aint the same! Lord knows even if a kid is being picked upon continuously, rage build ups and once provoked, the way one is certain to react should be expected to be harsh. In times of provocation reaction is very bad. When one is angry, a simple sorry can cement it all. But continuous tormenting builds up inside of you. Targeting Muslims and persistently making a mockery of their religion, in the expense of who they worship & serve could be considered to be mentally injurious to their emotions?.it is traumatizing & agonizing and cartoon like that has negative effects  on the reputation of Islam.

I have a moral condemnation on those that promote of violence against humanity. My religion does not support to killing, blasphemy, disrespect, and many more. I do not support  some Muslim, the very FEW who do not act in accordance with the Holy book. In peace living no Muslims, (mark my word) without just cause will stand against humanity and cause hostility. In this issue, many have overreacted because their power of salvation has been tempered with by others who do not share their religion. Such actions is  motivated by the intolerability, indignation and the repulsion the Muslim Ummahs are facing.  I will not urge my people to be violent or become violators of the principles of Islam because it does not support??.intimidation or enticement of people to ridicule any person or group of persons or to mock anything they have respect for even if it is the smallest of all things talk less of throwing provocative caricature to them. Very extraordinary for you to find a Muslim making fun of any religion either through cartoon, defamation or blasphemy!!!

lols.......sheeesh, its long :shock: & now I will continue eating.....(any1 wanna join, for my dinner?)
Oh by d way Sammy....on behalf of the rest of the members, who I presume are presently so busy......you are welcome to k-online...

[sammy]

Lol, verbal capacity of a two year old and mental reasoning of a 5 year old.  What is this supposed to be? A cheap shot?  Please.  Before I respond to your agonizing sermon, let me point out to you that Muslim Arabs are killing, raping and enslaving black Africans in the Sudan.   I'll respond shortly. thx

[ummita]

Lol, What is this supposed to be? A cheap shot?  Please.  Before I respond to your agonizing sermon, let me point out to you that Muslim Arabs are killing, raping and enslaving black Africans in the Sudan.

(she laffs).....I mean.....seriously wat has that got 2 du wit this specific discussion? :?  I guess they must have learnt from the  best.....Where hav u been all these years?.....Stories like that are never-ending. In Europe there was a sad story of a father who killed his own wife and a brother raped his own sis!! Dont tell me it sounds all new to you....there are plenty more pre-historic events like that! As for me, God is best to judge them whoever kills, enslaves.....etc. We should not point out wrongdoers to cast blameworthiness on them. So wat have the Muslim Arabs or enslaved Africans got to do with something that happened just recently? Or did they infact draw the cartoon images? (*signs*).....mhmmm the usage of such an irrelevant fact at this stage is not important!

If u read clearly, wen I said your verbal comments sounds like a 2yr older, I SAID IT SOUNDED LIKE ONE! Didnt say YOU ARE ONE! Understood? Are we clear on that?(Comprende?).  Wasnt a shot at  u at all.....blame your sensitivity.(phew......sum ppl can take less trivial comments all too seriously). All is not soiled, so accept my sincere apology if I have bruised you this bad, that surpassing that statement was inevitable to you. I would have just passed a remark like that having a carefree & open to critism attitude. Anyway you can busy yourself if u wish & enligthen us more on what you think the Muslims should have done when that cartoon was was made available to human eye, maybe that can justify if any the acts of the artist. Otherwise, 2 each his/her own judgements.....

Am not really in need of answers, but I taught you came here seekin opinionated asnwers. So having enough time, I gave my share! As for me, there are move trivial matters that have been faced by Islamic minorities....this is only a minor ish.....!
And 4 now.........I leave u in peace!!!

[lionger]

Actually there's plenty of blame to go around here. Ignorance and a lack of understanding on both sides have created this brewing storm.

Freedom of the press/ speech is one of the most sacred concepts in any Western democracy and the other side need to understand that fact. I've read statements from some leaders in the muslim world demanding that the Danish and European govts "control their media"; that simply ain't gonna happen! At least not in the sense that the media in some muslim countries are controlled. Furthermore, Europe has had a very long history of severe misrule and oppression under a Christless "Christian religion", which they have only just come out of in the past few centuries. In those days anyone who committed such an offense would probably have been very brutally killed. As such, today the philosophy is that no institution, person, or school of thought is above criticism or reproach. They are not prepared to submit (in their opinion) in any way to any religious school of thought, even if in this case, it isn't their old "foe" Christianity, but Islam. (Frankly when I look at some so-called "muslim societies" today I don't blame them.) That is probably why many European presses have reprinted the offensive cartoons in response to some attempts to stop them. In doing so they are wielding (or so they think) their right to say whatever they want, which in their opinion is the trademark of a "free and democratic society". Secularism is the order of the day.

Unfortunately, as with most other ideals the West holds dear, they sometimes take it too far, as in this case. Freedom of speech is a great concept, no doubt, but it surely comes with a responsibility. Too many times this argument is used to justify a host of questionable material in the media. I have actually seen some of these cartoons and they are in very poor taste. How they were supposed to provoke debate and discussion as the original publisher claimed is beyond me.  These cartoons are only fit for provocation, period. What happens when racism/ethnicism comments start rearing their ugly heads in the media, all in the name of free speech? Or are they?

This event and others like the race riots in France sometime ago highlights the possibility that many European societies are yet to come to terms with their increasing multicultural nature in the new century. Why didn't the Danish newspaper just write an article? Didn't they know such drawings were taboo to most Muslims? As sammy has said, this is quite consistent with their treatment of other faiths, but I fear that this is a step too far. Sammy you make some good points, but I don't quite see your opinion of the cartoons. Do you agree that they were offensive? Seems you're relatively new; welcome to the forum. But don't get too brash in your arguments against Muslims/Islam, if not you'll defeat yourself.

[lionger]

On the other hand...

The response to the cartoons leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion. While I share in some sense the outrage of the Muslim world, I'm very disappointed, though not surprised with the excessive loss of property and even life that has happened. I guess here is where most of you muslims on the forum will disagree with me.

I'm sure we all remember the Theo Van Gogh slaying in the Netherlands and the Salman Rushdie affair, as well as the Isioma Daniel/Miss world riots brouhaha. For crying out loud, this  is not an acceptable response esp. for ppl who claim to be religious! Someone says something we don't like and in response we issue death threats, burn/destroy their embassies/ surround them wielding guns? How Does this portray Islam as a religion of peace? I hope we can see the parallels b/w the content of the cartoons and the response they drew. Some of these protesting muslims are playing right into their hands and validating the other side's argument!

What IS this fascination with burning other countries flags in protest, anyways? I find it somewhat amusing that Danish flags were so readily available all over the muslim world! Who's making these flags? I've seen pics of ppl standing on the danish flag in protest, or laying them out in front of mosques entrances for ppl to step on/ lay their shoes - do they realise what the cross on that flag symbolizes?

Speaking on this subject, Husnaa, while I sympathise with your outrage, you unfortunately exposed the same level of ignorance in your rant against Jews and Christians. Btw, what do the Jews have to do with this? Are the Danes Jewish? Are they, in fact, Christian? This reminds me of this news I read the other day:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/wl_nm/religion_cartoons_iran_holocaust_dc_6
So because the European press insulted the muslims, some of them have decided to provoke the Jews?? Where is the logic in this? This is nothing but childish, immature, dangerous kind of thinking.  :(

Secondly, where did you get this unfounded idea that Paul was the true founder of Christianity? Grossly incorrect! Have you read the Bible? I guess many muslims hold that view, without reason. This quote of yours though really takes the cake:

and what is the way of life of the jews and christians? open fornication, being gay having same sex marriages, swearing and abusing your parents, becoming drug addicts, going on the streets half naked, mindlessly going on a killing spree and note the word 'mindless' what ever you call muslims, they kill out of provocation not just for the fun or heck of it. Is this what we should give up our religion for? This 'WESTERN WAY OF LIFE?'

This is easily the most ignorant and misinformed statement on Jews and Christians I have ever read. O' Boy you just insulted my faith big time and I ain't gonna stand for that :lol: . If you are interested in discussing Christianity I would be happy to partake, as I have done before on this forum.  For you are obviously engaging in the same kind of slander and hate-mongering that you accuse the other side of w/out knowing it.

Ummita,
Your response to sammy really disappointed me

Dont tell me it sounds all new to you....there are plenty more pre-historic events like that! As for me, God is best to judge them whoever kills, enslaves.....etc. We should not point out wrongdoers to cast blameworthiness on them. So wat have the Muslim Arabs or enslaved Africans got to do with something that happened just recently? Or did they infact draw the cartoon images?  (*signs*).....mhmmm the usage of such an irrelevant fact at this stage is not important!

Emphasis added.
This is the kind of response that pops up again and again n this forum to my increasing amazement. How on earth can you be fit to criticise others outside your faith if you will not criticise your own? You mean you cannot even bring yourself to utter a word of displeasure? Why don't you let God judge the European press as well? Or is He incapable of doing so? So the Darfur crisis isnt recent enough for you? I don't think you understand the gravity of what you just uttered.
Which is truly more offensive and damaging to Islam's image, distasteful cartoons in a 'non-believer''s newpaper or acts of violence by some professing muslims? You be the judge.

Are the cartoons offensive? 100% yes. But it is clearly no justification for the loss of life and property. There is absolutely no reason why cartoons in Europe should result in the loss of three lives in faraway Afghanistan as I have just learned. When are we going to learn???  :?

[ummita]

Ummita,
Your response to sammy really disappointed me

(*signs*)What is more disappointing is the fact that very often, peoples statement are being misrepresented by others to suit their own opinon! And this shoudnt disappoint you because u can disagree to agree &  am just posing my opinon for your consideration.(Chie.....wahala!)

Emphasis added.
How on earth can you be fit to criticise others outside your faith if you will not criticise your own?  

Pls note that, I have not drawn any criticism against any religion outside my faith but relatively showed my objection because I do not see eye to eye on how the Danish Muslims are taking it. Furthermore, I did not subject to the acts of the cartoonist aswell. With regards your response on my quoted statement, if any human being is in the wrong and harms another, it does not matter to me the religion he or she follows for me to put together & make my views known. If a Muslim rapes, or kills, I cannot sanction judgment on him unless I work within the degrees of man made law  but like I said God is best to judge because, no matter what my protestations are, their deed is done, time cant go backward and erase any misdemeanor?even though I find it socially, morally and religously wrong! Likewise, If a Muslim should make a mockery of Messiah, Jesus, or one of the many Gods Hindus worship- Vishnu?? believe you me I will show my resentments but only God can judge.

You mean you cannot even bring yourself to utter a word of displeasure?[/color]

I reckon you read my ending statements if time prevails before jumping into conclusion but to save you doing so, I have the biggest resentment for the oppressors of violence if Muslims are among because the God they serve said learn 2 4give and do no harm onto anyone even the tiniest creature. What I find baffling is, what has Muslim Arabs or the African slaves (note: of whom could be Christians) got to do with what happened lately?  Are Muslim Arabs & some African slaves not rooted Muslims? Plus in the midst of enslaved Africans,wasnt there christians & non believers of any God? If yes, then are all of these persons not best to  be judged by God? If so....how have I criticised others outside my faith?

Why don't you let God judge the European press as well? Or is He incapable of doing so? So the Darfur crisis isnt recent enough for you? I don't think you understand the gravity of what you just uttered.

Oh very well I do, the fact that I did not say what Danish Muslim did is perfectly ok does not mean I have a sufficient and requisite plan to bomb up places with them! Even if I did not clearly state say bombing places and killing is wrong, I taugt that was just common sense but fact is, Islam detest violence and killing backed up by clear evidence of unquestionable proofs & surely God has all capability to judge any persons not only those within a European journalist profession but anyone, anywhere who is unjustly wrong......

mhmm...on the whole, there is no such reason to bring any religious figure into cartoon. I think we ought to have as great regards for religion as we can, so as to keep it out of as many things as possible. Had the Danish cartoonist been of such view, maybe all this wouldn?t have happened & we wont be here making so much racket!!!!

[sammy]

Umitta,
I am not sure what you are blabbing on and on about.  Quite frankly, it is difficult to have a logical dialogue with many Muslims, because logic and reason seem to be  highly discouraged.  I asked a couple of simple questions in my prior posting, and you conveniently avoided offering any response to the questions asked.  Instead you went preaching a sermon .

But, I will respond to your main question about what I would do if my mother was verbally abused in public.  It would offend me. And believe me I would rain the same verbal abuse back at the party dishing it out. As long as they do not physically harm my mother, I would have no reason to assault anyone. Is that clear enough for you?

But let me just say this, I fail to see the analogy here. Here is a case, where your prophet was caricatured by Danish Press, and the reaction of many Muslims have been violence, threats, flag burning, property destruction, etc.  What is the similarity of that to someone insulting my mother? It would make a whole lot more sense if you ask for my reaction if some people insult my own prophet. In this case, I would simply respond by telling you that, that the God who ordained that prophet would deal with the guilty parties because if they ridicule HIS prophet, they are indirectly ridiculing him.

But let me point out to you that centuries before Mohammed there were other Prophets lived and worked among people. According to Jewish religious history which predates Islam, there were several of those Prophets that you mentioned in your commentary. There was the Prophet Elijah, Elisha, Moses, Samuel, all the way to Jesus.  In studying the works of these Prophets,  they all encountered similar degree of ridicule from their very own people. One of those prophets actually coined a phrase that "A prophet has no honor in his town". I wonder if you have heard that before, but this was the reality of prophethood. They were sometimes revered by some faithful, and at other times, they were mocked and ridicluled, but it was never up to them to dish out punishment.  They simply went about their business.  This is one of the fundamental differences between those prophets and Mohammed.  Mohammed, unlike the Prophets before him, could not tolerate any kind of ridicule, opposition, or dissent. In fact according to historical documents, he ordered the execution of those who publicly ridiculed him and what he stood for.

I guess many Muslims just follow the example of their leader.  Then you went on to proclaim all  these peace about Islam and the non violent , non agressive philosophy of the religion, and that is completely false.  But not to digress,  please answer my question, is a cartoon a threat to Islam?  
I think there are other reasons why the Muslims are reacting so agressively. Some expessed earlier that they feel merginalised and want to capture what they percieve to be their rightly place globally.