Author Topic: Obama: 'I'm not a Muslim, I'm against Hamas and Arabs, and I'll protect Jews'  (Read 31428 times)

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Offline Cekenah

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Muhsin,
Make no mistake, there was nothing 'childish' about your latest entry. At best, it was profoundly ignorant. While I will not address you as a lunatic, it must be established that your comment was (to say the least) the product of shallow, unsound reasoning - possibly similar to the kind that saw thousands of German would-be church-goers acquiese blindly to the rise of Nazism in the 1930s. A well-informed adult today ought to know better than to celebrate the racist horror that Nazism was; no less a black Muslim such as yourself. Did you know that part of Hitler's angst against the Jews was that they 'were responsible for bringing negroes into the Rhineland, with the ultimate idea of bastardizing the white race' (A. Hitler, Mein Kampf)? Since you seem so flippant with Jewish life, understand then that our race may well have gone to the dogs had Hitler prevailed!

Moerover, Hitler is also alleged to have considered Islam as 'more compatible to us [Nazis]' than a 'weak and flabby' Christianity (A.Speer, Inside the Third Reich)! One would think that most Muslims would recoil in abject horror at such a claim, but then again here comes Muhsin and EMTL with their naive brand of Islamic solidarity to prove that Hitler may have been right after all!

Its dillusioning to realise that similar sentiments have been expressed on this board in my time here. I recall reading a couple of threads over a year ago on Ahmadinejad and the Israel-Hezbollah conflict. One of the apparently outstanding members of this forum espoused Holocaust denial theories and also claimed that Israel's alleged racist and violent basis could be found in their Torah, which he supported with a most bizarre example of scriptural hermeneutics. I'd like to find those threads, for I had wished to quizz him on his research and interpretative methods.

With all due respect Muhsin, your subsequent sanctimonious posturing is hardly acceptable. I encourage you to get better informed on issues before repeatedly demeaning your value system (Islam) here with such assinine remarks. Why worry about non-Muslim scoffers, when you bring Islam into far more disrepute with your own words? To me, at least, your comments carry infinitely more weight.

Offline Muhsin

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I can make no sense of Muhsin's post .
I have nothing to do with either Ete or Lionger and I take exception to Muhsin's remarks.
I would ask him to produce any evidence of me insulting anyone on this forum or me saying anything against Islam or of me talking any sort of nonsense.
I have regularly however posted when I have read some complete nonsense posted on this forum such as the recent post supporting Hitler. That is what the forum is for - contradicting nonsense.
It appears there are a number of people on this forum who have difficulty with that concept.

Muhsin - what points exactly do you disagree with in my last post? I'd like to know. 

Dave,

I didn't know and never imagined that my comments would got you such frustrated. I didn't, at all, intend to do anything like that. Am sorry, really am I. And, as you said you don't have anything to do with neither Ete nor Lionger, well...I don't think that. Probably you couldn't remember, but I could. During that time, if you didn't not say exactly what they said, then you'd definetly back them up. But that was then and I don't know now.

To your question; what I disagree with you on is the calling of anybody that supports Hitler's action mad, which simply means Muhsin, as in that discussion. Sincerely speaking thats an insult. Wallahi I've and will never call anyone here mad. Some body called me lunatic, and other ignorant, but these people I reasoned them as new here but why YOU onld Dave? If not because I managed controlling my anger, what I would have had said would be more desastrous and more disrespecting, I believe. Pls, don't do something like that, I beg, looking at your age and the long time you've been here.

And, if you'd looked at my reply, I withdrew my words. I was and am not supporting his action any longer. Thats done, to be candid enough with my humble self, under a facade of ignorance to the real issue on the ground.

Wish you'll understand me very well. And thanks for your patience.

Muhsin

« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 04:35:10 PM by Muhsin »
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Offline Muhsin

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Cekenah,

If you really wanna do me fairness, I think, you should have read my preceded post (before yours and Dave's) throughly and fathomed every word I say. But you come up here saying...cunningly insulting me and this and that. Why? I already accept defeat, thats following Sheriff's lucid explanation on the matter.

What do you want me do or say further? I do also accept your call that I should be getting currect and well-informed on issues before replying or doing anything.

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 04:45:36 PM by Muhsin »
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Offline _Waziri_

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Moerover, Hitler is also alleged to have considered Islam as 'more compatible to us [Nazis]' than a 'weak and flabby' Christianity (A.Speer, Inside the Third Reich)! One would think that most Muslims would recoil in abject horror at such a claim, but then again here comes Muhsin and EMTL with their naive brand of Islamic solidarity to prove that Hitler may have been right after all!


Since Muhsin has been cowered into apologising for expressing his sentiments and sympathy for Hitler, which many authors did and are doing today, I will here demand that an apology also should be tendered to Muslims for trying the tip of extereme logic in order to equate Islam with Nazism. Or when did EMTL or Muhsin's positions become synonymous with Islamic position ?

After all I do not know anybody on these forums, a year ago who, 'espoused Holocaust denial theories', but I know a one who asserted that the crime against the Jews during the tragedy was greatly exagerated above the one against blacks or Gypsies. That same person also  put forward the claim that Jewish religion is inherently racists and preaches racism as a command of God.

Well, I am still waiting to see a stronger point against the positions taken by the above sited member.

Offline Muhsin

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Since Muhsin has been cowered into apologising for expressing his sentiments and sympathy for Hitler, which many authors did and are doing today, I will here demand that an apology also should be tendered to Muslims for trying the tip of extereme logic in order to equate Islam with Nazism. Or when did EMTL or Muhsin's positions become synonymous with Islamic position ?

At times, as I learn, you should lower down yourself and even bow on your knees not for anything but the sake of peace. Thats just what I religiosly believe in, have been doing and also do now, Waziri. Your been on the right position or telling the truth notwithstanding.

And moreover, what dishearten me a bit concerning this discussion is how people completely outbound its main topic. And in the process, some body called me lunatic and the other, knowing that I have had shown my annoyance before, called me again mad. Look, for Godness sake! As I said earlier, I have and will never address anyone here, no matter what you say to me. You don't know, mostly who you are dealing with and thus how dare you...??? :o

Any way...thats all.

Back to the main topic of discusion;

I just got that piece from one Jewish website. They themselves declare to world that Mr. Obama, by his pronouncement and well...confession about Muslims and Islam, was simply and plainly trying to quell them. Check this site; http://www.forward.com/articles/12581/

What lead me into more mire is why only Jewish. But as somebody, I think, King mentioned; Jewish have a large population in US almost than Isra'el itself. If thats not true then he really blunders. Doesn't he also want Muslims votes? Or don't they have a considerable population there? Or he practically wants to show that he no longer has any ounce of relation to Islamic religion?



« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 05:01:23 PM by Muhsin »
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Offline sheriff 05

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Cekenah, I agree with waziri, your assertions also warrants an apology and (as I said to Muhsin), I sincerely hope you did not mean what you said ... well done Muhsin, true Men accept their Mistake, but only brave one's apologise as well... Masha'Allah..

Offline Dan-Borno

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    • Dan-Borno
For praising Hitler, Nigerian risks jail in Hungary
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2008, 01:09:32 PM »
Any African that supports Hitler has to be mad. Hitler believed coloured people were inferior to white people. He also killed homosexuals and gypsies as well as about 6 million Jews (none of whom had anything to do with the wickedness of the present day state of Israel).

Where is Maigemu, when i read this your post, i began to
wonder if you are a jew, nonetheless, i have no interest
in what happened to the jews or whoever and i also agree
with you that they have nothing to do with the wickedness
of the present day state of Israel.

This article i culled somewhere may interest you to see
how far africans mind the business of the jews
______________________________________________________________________________________________
THISDAY NEWSPAPER ONLINE VERSION
For praising Hitler, Nigerian risks jail in Hungary
02.11.2008
Monday, February 11, 2008
http://odili.net/news/source/2008/feb/11/217.html

Hungary has threatened to jail a Nigerian, Oludayo Olapite for praising Adolph Hitler and Sz.lasi in a music he released recently in the country. Both men killed many people during the Second World War inGermany and Hungary respectively.

Olapite, 38, may get three years imprisonment if found guilty of hailing the duo.The trouble started when a TV channel uploaded the video clip which is now under police investigation, to the internet.

In the video, Olapite, popularly called Fekete, lavishly beams an expression of approval and recommendation for the German politician who remained a totalitarian ruler until his suicide in 1945. He also cast aspersions on Jews and the Hungarian minority known as Gypsy saying, Gypsies don't work, so what are they living on? They do incredible things, really in this country. They scam you, they lie, and you mustn't believe what they say. Olapite when questioned by the Hungarian police attributed his outbursts to life under duress, the African news said.

He claimed that he was ordered to shout every statement he made during the interview. "I was very frightened because I thought I might never see my girl friend again,"said Olapite whose funny bait often entraps his Hungarian fans. He continued: "They gave me a 10-page-script about Gypsy, Hitler, Jews, blacks and the socialists in which I hardly understood because I was frightened.

"Although they tried to calm me down as they repeatedly told me they were not racists or skinheads. They convinced me that Hitler was a good man who wanted to do the best for the world. I felt I must do whatever they asked me to do otherwise I won't go out alive".

The producer of the BombagyĚr channel, TomCat, claimed Fekete knew exactly what he was saying. "Of course we explained who Hitler and SzĚlasi were but for PĚko itwas unnecessary for him to probe further. Oh, he is not a stupid ni****. I mean Nigerian". The BombagyĚrTV is often the focus of the media because of its racial and hatred contents. However, Africans in Hungary especially Nigerians have dismissed Olapite's under duress excuse as implausible and annoying.

Archie Bonka, a Ghanaian cultural performer, said that it was silly on the part of Fekete  to have publicly praised Hitler and condemned the Gypsy who often calls us their brothers? "Doesn'the know that many blacks in Germany were killed by this man? This Nigerian has already destroyed himself.

It's high time he carried his own cross," he added.

In his own response to the scandal, Prince Kabir Abubakar said, "Olapite has only himself to blame for whatever outcome this unfortunate incident ultimately brings", adding that he needs to apologize not only to the Gypsy and overall Hungarian population, but also to Nigerians and the black people the world over.

Zsolt, a Hungarian political student whose class debated over the issue, blamed both Fekete PĚko andthe TV station which carried the interview. "Myopinion on this PĚk█ issue is that both sides are indeep trouble. Even if PĚk█ did not know what he wassaying, the things he said are against ourconstitution, and these types of crimes are strictly punished. The Nigerian Union in Hungary has since issued astatement condemning Olapite's unfortunate outbursts.

Virtually every African in Hungary believes thatFekete PĚk█ is a symbol to ridicule Africans by theHungarian tabloids
"My mama always used to tell me: 'If you can't find somethin' to live for, you best find somethin' to die for" - Tupak

Offline Muhsin

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Cekenah, I agree with waziri, your assertions also warrants an apology and (as I said to Muhsin), I sincerely hope you did not mean what you said ... well done Muhsin, true Men accept their Mistake, but only brave one's apologise as well... Masha'Allah..

Thanks a lot, sheriff.
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Offline Muhsin

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Nice piece, DB. But unfortunetly my time is about to end and thus I couldn't read it completely. But when I get back, inshaAllah.
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Offline Ibro2g

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Most of what I have to say has been said by sherrif, so i wont waste much time.

 I have great respect for this forum and its members young and aged as well as new and old. I have come to understand the difference in my clan, my  tribe, my nation and my world. I have learnt that I or We are not alone in this world and niether our beliefs and customs. And I am proud of my religion which has taught me to live and get along with any other different from me in any way, peacefully, safely and even progresively. This being said, I want to beg Us to mind our language and character in the best way we can and potray the best image and words that best describes us.

 Cekenah, EMTL, Muhsin, King, Dave, Eteh and Lionger This message is mostly especially for you, I do understand where each is aiming at but like I said above, show us some decency and maturity that all of u are worthy of.

On the subject matter itself, I think Senator Obama is smarter than making such comments, clearly someone is tryina ternish his image to his voters and other influence in the world...probably political reasons.

Frankly, I dont care about the U.S Elections. I dont have a say, a vote or the right to judge any one of them. My peoples lives will soon be messed up by AFRICOMM either way whosoever gets into power.

Hitler was a retarded leader that led a nation of people that needed courage beyond sanity to drive thier pride back to its status or even elevate it to an immortal status. Only a lunatic can preach such ideas, but a great lunatic he was. That era proved how vulnerable man can be. On a lower scale, its happening all over Nigeria.

Like Waziri was saying something about the exaggeration of the Jewish Holocaust, its probably what led to the justification of Israeli state. And its probably not as horrible as the Holocausts of ethnic Abanians that innitially was refused to be recognised by the western world. Or even the millions of Palestinians that have lost thier lives to "territory". But still, the World find it only convinient and appropriate to treat the Jews of the Holocaust to thier own lands amidst an ethnic Rival. And for almost a century now, that decision still seems right and only that. Despite the deaths. May Sanity befall our world again.

The middle east has always been a terrible place, sever war and massacre. But ever since the emergence of Islam, there has never been anything that united and made the region more peaceful. Even more than the pressence of the Romans. The state of Isreal has destroyed all that.

In all fairness and Equity, if the West so choses to police the world, shouldnt they maybe, find a place for the palestinians too, make them soveriegn, equip them with nukes too(what happens to the right hand should also be upon the left), push some people over before thier time to earn a land comes near. Or havent the Palestininas seen more deaths than 6 million people till date? What an Irony of prople and times.

Why does the U.S protect Isreal... I may not fully understand. Why do my people sympathise with Palestinians, mostly for religion I suppose. But if anyone has any human compassion in this world, one has to sympathise with the Palestinians, like the world sympathhised with the Jews of the Holocaust.


May Safety and Peace be with you
Safety and Peace

Offline Muhsin

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Most of what I have to say has been said by sherrif, so i wont waste much time.

 I have great respect for this forum and its members young and aged as well as new and old. I have come to understand the difference in my clan, my  tribe, my nation and my world. I have learnt that I or We are not alone in this world and niether our beliefs and customs. And I am proud of my religion which has taught me to live and get along with any other different from me in any way, peacefully, safely and even progresively. This being said, I want to beg Us to mind our language and character in the best way we can and potray the best image and words that best describes us.

 Cekenah, EMTL, Muhsin, King, Dave, Eteh and Lionger This message is mostly especially for you, I do understand where each is aiming at but like I said above, show us some decency and maturity that all of u are worthy of.

May Safety and Peace be with you

Thanks for that, Ibro2g.

Any way, I don't wanna bring us back to sequare A, but yet I feel like stressing one thing here. I've already expressed my apology and so on after Sheriff's philosophical lucid enpantiation on all the happenings. Is good to remind, reproach, critisize, etc even again and again; just like now.

On the subject matter itself, I think Senator Obama is smarter than making such comments, clearly someone is tryina ternish his image to his voters and other influence in the world...probably political reasons.

May Safety and Peace be with you

That was my presopposition on him before. The man (Obama) has charisma (though I have never known him physically ) and is very impecable oratory and other good qualities of good politician. But I believe he says that. Didn't you read what I also qouted him saying in one Jews website? Follow that above link and read the full text.

Frankly, I dont care about the U.S Elections. I dont have a say, a vote or the right to judge any one of them. My peoples lives will soon be messed up by AFRICOMM either way whosoever gets into power.

If you look at US present position globally, I think you should bother, even a bit, about their election, your right to vote, say, judge, etc notwithstanding.


Why does the U.S protect Isreal... I may not fully understand. Why do my people sympathise with Palestinians, mostly for religion I suppose. But if anyone has any human compassion in this world, one has to sympathise with the Palestinians, like the world sympathhised with the Jews of the Holocaust.


Well said, Ibro2g. I also always imagine why US keenly concerns about Israel.
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Offline Cekenah

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Well, this is a surprise. Perhaps I did not make myself clear, and have thus been woefully misunderstood. Apologies all round! Let's see if I can make things right.

On closer inspection, though I am compelled to say this. Waziri, sherrif, Muhsin and Ibro2g: you have all be rather careless with my post. If my intent was to insult Islam by equating it with Nazism, then
  • Why did I say at the beginning that a black Muslim ought to know better than to support Nazism?
  • Why did I say at the beginning that many German Christians were probably fooled into support of Hitler with similar reasoning? Was I insulting Christianity when I said that?
  • Why did I decry Muhsin's attempted defense of Islamic principles here as naive at best?
  • And finally, why did I say in conclusion that Muhsin insulted his own faith with such utterances?

You all missed the point of my rhetoric, and some are trying to put my statement on the level as Muhsin's; that is ridiculous. I hardly feel under no compulsion to apologise for Hitler's madness, or for pointing out the obvious implications of Muhsin's post - neither of which I agree with.

Offline Cekenah

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Waziri,
Quote
Since Muhsin has been cowered into apologising for expressing his sentiments and sympathy for Hitler, which many authors did and are doing today, I will here demand that an apology also should be tendered to Muslims for trying the tip of extereme logic in order to equate Islam with Nazism. Or when did EMTL or Muhsin's positions become synonymous with Islamic position ?
Your response is particularly bemusing. You excuse Muhsin by refering to similar sentiments of other writers - all of whom are probably discredited on that basis - and yet you take me to task for stating the obvious! Do you think that I cannot call on a larger body of expert opinion to support my claims? And if you believe that Muhsin and EMTL's posts are incongruent with Islamic principles, then why are you wasting your time with me, dear Muslim apologist? Of course, you are well within your rights to respond to forumners of your own choosing; however I am also well withinn my rights to point out that anyone serious about defending Islam's honor would not strain over misunderstood rhetoric while making excuses for the real offenders.

Quote
After all I do not know anybody on these forums, a year ago who, 'espoused Holocaust denial theories', but I know a one who asserted that the crime against the Jews during the tragedy was greatly exagerated above the one against blacks or Gypsies. That same person also put forward the claim that Jewish religion is inherently racists and preaches racism as a command of God.
The highlighted portion is quintessential Holocaust denialism. Holocaust 'denial' is not the absolute rejection of a Jewish Holocaust. It is, among other things, the idea that the present scholarly consensus on the Holocaust is the product of a grand Jewish conspiracy. The only people that reject the appelation 'denial' to such theories are the Holocaust deniers themselves. So perhaps it is little surprise to discover that a certain Waziri made those comments back then! I shall comment on the issues you raised there in due time.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 06:33:28 PM by Cekenah »

Offline _Waziri_

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Waziri,

Quote
After all I do not know anybody on these forums, a year ago who, 'espoused Holocaust denial theories', but I know a one who asserted that the crime against the Jews during the tragedy was greatly exagerated above the one against blacks or Gypsies. That same person also put forward the claim that Jewish religion is inherently racists and preaches racism as a command of God.
The highlighted portion is quintessential Holocaust denialism. Holocaust 'denial' is not the absolute rejection of a Jewish Holocaust. It is, among other things, the idea that the present scholarly consensus on the Holocaust is the product of a grand Jewish conspiracy. The only people that reject the appelation 'denial' to such theories are the Holocaust deniers themselves. So perhaps it is little surprise to discover that a certain Waziri made those comments back then! I shall comment on the issues you raised there in due time.


Okay, let's not try debasing ourselves by calling names like 'Muslim apologist' or 'Muslim hater' as you risk being branded here. But then if  by saying what I said you still want to insist I denied the Holocaust why would you want to insist that even after attempting to compare Islam and Nazism  all should try to see it as not so? Same standard for you and same standard for Muhsin or Myself.

Why must you wish your explanation to be accepted without reading motives and come round to claim that mine shouldn't be so accepted?

Let's say same standards be applied you take me clearly on my words and I do that to you. You insist on reading meanings out of mine, I read meaning out of yours!

After all you said you can establish your comparison of Islam and Nazism from serious points of reference and I wish you do that.

Offline Muhsin

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Waziri and Cekenah,

I understand your discussion is leading to some places, where sincerely speaking it'll not be beneficial to either of you or other members of the forum. If it were me, I'll simply put it like; what happened has happened and cannot be undo but yet can be withdrew, just like what I did. But some people can barely do that, I know.

I unfortunetly know very little about that Holucous 'thing'. I wish I knew more than I know, thus I could have quench the flames of that ongoing fire thats rising. Any way, from now I vow to search, read and explore more on that in case next time.

Waziri, Chekenah and others please calm down and lets continue on our discussion securely, relevently and accordingly. That'll certainly do us more good than...

See you soon! And thanks.
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