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Offline Muhsin

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2009, 12:54:07 PM »
Dan Borno, Please remove these pics they are so upsetting

There are more horrifying pictures if you watch Aljazeera. They (Aljazeera) are the only international media that has reporter in Gaza. Wallahi the thing is beyond human comprehension, let alone acceptance. Allah ya isa! Am even thinking of staying mute for the rest of this brutal massacre on boards like this one, wallahi.

Wai saboda tsabar rainin hankali France and Egypt so-called ceasefire call requires IDF to halt in their animal-like offensive for three hours a day. That simple means giving them ample time to refill and restock their tanks, artillery, infantry and other military vehicle they use for their thoughtless, merciless occupation. Kai akwai Allah. Yana nan a madakata.

To hell with Arab League, United Nation, United State, Israel, Egypt and all other involved bodies and countries (I skip mentioning Saudi Arabia because of its being rather sacred). May Allah avenge us, ameen.

Muhsin

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Offline Lawwali

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2009, 06:29:32 PM »
It is true Muhsin, most terrifying pictures are on the net and the Aljazeera news. This is another show of selfishness from the western media: count CNN,BBC,SkeyNews,Euronews E.T.C, Didnt find it worthy to cover the event that vividly.

Now we heard that the UN humanitarian aid works cannot continue because of security situation. Despite all evidences that israel is only targetting innocent civilians, tha US and its allis are still insistants that israel is defending itself from terrorism. It is now Time for linguistics to redefine the word "TERRORISM".
it takes oppressed and oppressor for oppression to occur

Offline HUSNAA

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2009, 05:55:18 AM »
How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe

Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions.

The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is through understanding the historical context. Establishing the state of Israel in May 1948 involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians. British officials bitterly resented American partisanship on behalf of the infant state. On 2 June 1948, Sir John Troutbeck wrote to the foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, that the Americans were responsible for the creation of a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". I used to think that this judgment was too harsh but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question.

I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times.

Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza's prospects were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of deliberate de-development. To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods. The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for real political independence.

Gaza is a classic case of colonial exploitation in the post-colonial era. Jewish settlements in occupied territories are immoral, illegal and an insurmountable obstacle to peace. They are at once the instrument of exploitation and the symbol of the hated occupation. In Gaza, the Jewish settlers numbered only 8,000 in 2005 compared with 1.4 million local residents. Yet the settlers controlled 25% of the territory, 40% of the arable land and the lion's share of the scarce water resources. Cheek by jowl with these foreign intruders, the majority of the local population lived in abject poverty and unimaginable misery. Eighty per cent of them still subsist on less than $2 a day. The living conditions in the strip remain an affront to civilised values, a powerful precipitant to resistance and a fertile breeding ground for political extremism.

In August 2005 a Likud government headed by Ariel Sharon staged a unilateral Israeli pullout from Gaza, withdrawing all 8,000 settlers and destroying the houses and farms they had left behind. Hamas, the Islamic resistance movement, conducted an effective campaign to drive the Israelis out of Gaza. The withdrawal was a humiliation for the Israeli Defence Forces. To the world, Sharon presented the withdrawal from Gaza as a contribution to peace based on a two-state solution. But in the year after, another 12,000 Israelis settled on the West Bank, further reducing the scope for an independent Palestinian state. Land-grabbing and peace-making are simply incompatible. Israel had a choice and it chose land over peace.

The real purpose behind the move was to redraw unilaterally the borders of Greater Israel by incorporating the main settlement blocs on the West Bank to the state of Israel. Withdrawal from Gaza was thus not a prelude to a peace deal with the Palestinian Authority but a prelude to further Zionist expansion on the West Bank. It was a unilateral Israeli move undertaken in what was seen, mistakenly in my view, as an Israeli national interest. Anchored in a fundamental rejection of the Palestinian national identity, the withdrawal from Gaza was part of a long-term effort to deny the Palestinian people any independent political existence on their land.

Israel's settlers were withdrawn but Israeli soldiers continued to control all access to the Gaza Strip by land, sea and air. Gaza was converted overnight into an open-air prison. From this point on, the Israeli air force enjoyed unrestricted freedom to drop bombs, to make sonic booms by flying low and breaking the sound barrier, and to terrorise the hapless inhabitants of this prison.

Israel likes to portray itself as an island of democracy in a sea of authoritarianism. Yet Israel has never in its entire history done anything to promote democracy on the Arab side and has done a great deal to undermine it. Israel has a long history of secret collaboration with reactionary Arab regimes to suppress Palestinian nationalism. Despite all the handicaps, the Palestinian people succeeded in building the only genuine democracy in the Arab world with the possible exception of Lebanon. In January 2006, free and fair elections for the Legislative Council of the Palestinian Authority brought to power a Hamas-led government. Israel, however, refused to recognise the democratically elected government, claiming that Hamas is purely and simply a terrorist organisation.

America and the EU shamelessly joined Israel in ostracising and demonising the Hamas government and in trying to bring it down by withholding tax revenues and foreign aid. A surreal situation thus developed with a significant part of the international community imposing economic sanctions not against the occupier but against the occupied, not against the oppressor but against the oppressed.

As so often in the tragic history of Palestine, the victims were blamed for their own misfortunes. Israel's propaganda machine persistently purveyed the notion that the Palestinians are terrorists, that they reject coexistence with the Jewish state, that their nationalism is little more than antisemitism, that Hamas is just a bunch of religious fanatics and that Islam is incompatible with democracy. But the simple truth is that the Palestinian people are a normal people with normal aspirations. They are no better but they are no worse than any other national group. What they aspire to, above all, is a piece of land to call their own on which to live in freedom and dignity.

Like other radical movements, Hamas began to moderate its political programme following its rise to power. From the ideological rejectionism of its charter, it began to move towards pragmatic accommodation of a two-state solution. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a national unity government that was ready to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with Israel. Israel, however, refused to negotiate with a government that included Hamas.

It continued to play the old game of divide and rule between rival Palestinian factions. In the late 1980s, Israel had supported the nascent Hamas in order to weaken Fatah, the secular nationalist movement led by Yasser Arafat. Now Israel began to encourage the corrupt and pliant Fatah leaders to overthrow their religious political rivals and recapture power. Aggressive American neoconservatives participated in the sinister plot to instigate a Palestinian civil war. Their meddling was a major factor in the collapse of the national unity government and in driving Hamas to seize power in Gaza in June 2007 to pre-empt a Fatah coup.

The war unleashed by Israel on Gaza on 27 December was the culmination of a series of clashes and confrontations with the Hamas government. In a broader sense, however, it is a war between Israel and the Palestinian people, because the people had elected the party to power. The declared aim of the war is to weaken Hamas and to intensify the pressure until its leaders agree to a new ceasefire on Israel's terms. The undeclared aim is to ensure that the Palestinians in Gaza are seen by the world simply as a humanitarian problem and thus to derail their struggle for independence and statehood.

The timing of the war was determined by political expediency. A general election is scheduled for 10 February and, in the lead-up to the election, all the main contenders are looking for an opportunity to prove their toughness. The army top brass had been champing at the bit to deliver a crushing blow to Hamas in order to remove the stain left on their reputation by the failure of the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon in July 2006. Israel's cynical leaders could also count on apathy and impotence of the pro-western Arab regimes and on blind support from President Bush in the twilight of his term in the White House. Bush readily obliged by putting all the blame for the crisis on Hamas, vetoing proposals at the UN Security Council for an immediate ceasefire and issuing Israel with a free pass to mount a ground invasion of Gaza.

As always, mighty Israel claims to be the victim of Palestinian aggression but the sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little room for doubt as to who is the real victim. This is indeed a conflict between David and Goliath but the Biblical image has been inverted - a small and defenceless Palestinian David faces a heavily armed, merciless and overbearing Israeli Goliath. The resort to brute military force is accompanied, as always, by the shrill rhetoric of victimhood and a farrago of self-pity overlaid with self-righteousness. In Hebrew this is known as the syndrome of bokhim ve-yorim, "crying and shooting".

To be sure, Hamas is not an entirely innocent party in this conflict. Denied the fruit of its electoral victory and confronted with an unscrupulous adversary, it has resorted to the weapon of the weak - terror. Militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad kept launching Qassam rocket attacks against Israeli settlements near the border with Gaza until Egypt brokered a six-month ceasefire last June. The damage caused by these primitive rockets is minimal but the psychological impact is immense, prompting the public to demand protection from its government. Under the circumstances, Israel had the right to act in self-defence but its response to the pinpricks of rocket attacks was totally disproportionate. The figures speak for themselves. In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. On the other hand, in 2005-7 alone, the IDF killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children.

Whatever the numbers, killing civilians is wrong. This rule applies to Israel as much as it does to Hamas, but Israel's entire record is one of unbridled and unremitting brutality towards the inhabitants of Gaza. Israel also maintained the blockade of Gaza after the ceasefire came into force which, in the view of the Hamas leaders, amounted to a violation of the agreement. During the ceasefire, Israel prevented any exports from leaving the strip in clear violation of a 2005 accord, leading to a sharp drop in employment opportunities. Officially, 49.1% of the population is unemployed. At the same time, Israel restricted drastically the number of trucks carrying food, fuel, cooking-gas canisters, spare parts for water and sanitation plants, and medical supplies to Gaza. It is difficult to see how starving and freezing the civilians of Gaza could protect the people on the Israeli side of the border. But even if it did, it would still be immoral, a form of collective punishment that is strictly forbidden by international humanitarian law.

The brutality of Israel's soldiers is fully matched by the mendacity of its spokesmen. Eight months before launching the current war on Gaza, Israel established a National Information Directorate. The core messages of this directorate to the media are that Hamas broke the ceasefire agreements; that Israel's objective is the defence of its population; and that Israel's forces are taking the utmost care not to hurt innocent civilians. Israel's spin doctors have been remarkably successful in getting this message across. But, in essence, their propaganda is a pack of lies.

A wide gap separates the reality of Israel's actions from the rhetoric of its spokesmen. It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It di d so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November that killed six Hamas men. Israel's objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza by turning the people against their rulers. And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a three-year-old blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza, now 1.5 million, to the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe.

The Biblical injunction of an eye for an eye is savage enough. But Israel's insane offensive against Gaza seems to follow the logic of an eye for an eyelash. After eight days of bombing, with a death toll of more than 400 Palestinians and four Israelis, the gung-ho cabinet ordered a land invasion of Gaza the consequences of which are incalculable.

No amount of military escalation can buy Israel immunity from rocket attacks from the military wing of Hamas. Despite all the death and destruction that Israel has inflicted on them, they kept up their resistance and they kept firing their rockets. This is a movement that glorifies victimhood and martyrdom. There is simply no military solution to the conflict between the two communities. The problem with Israel's concept of security is that it denies even the most elementary security to the other community. The only way for Israel to achieve security is not through shooting but through talks with Hamas, which has repeatedly declared its readiness to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with the Jewish state within its pre-1967 borders for 20, 30, or even 50 years. Israel has rejected this offer for the same reason it spurned the Arab League peace plan of 2002, which is still on the table: it involves concessions and compromises.

This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel's real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination. It keeps compounding the mistakes of the past with new and more disastrous ones. Politicians, like everyone else, are of course free to repeat the lies and mistakes of the past. But it is not mandatory to do so.

Avi Shlaim is a professor of international relations at the University of Oxford and the author of The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World and of Lion of Jordan: King Hussein's Life in War and Peace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine
 
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline Muhsin

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2009, 12:58:33 PM »
That was quite fair statement by that Prof., auntie Husnaa. Ai dama not only Muslims consider this juggernaut action of Israel as barbarous crime to the humanity, I watch, read and hear it. Only Allah can avenge them but the sitiution is a full-blown crisis to humanity. Wai amma duk da haka, the animals are further saying they are intensifying their reprehensible assult deep into the City of Gaza. Mst!

Allah ya isa!
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Offline Cekenah

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2009, 04:23:08 PM »
EMTL,
Quote
Israel is a like thief who sneaked into some body's(Palestine) house took a small portion and every year increases that portion pushing the land owner out of his legitimate property.
Well, as long as we're using crude oversimplifications, here's my suggestion: Israel is like a clever usurper, and the Palestinians are like clueless victims. We'll come back to this in due time.

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You fail to emanciapte yourself with fact that Israel has stubbornly refused the supply of all medicine, food, etc., into Palestine for two years into Gaza and withholds Palestine wealth simply because a legitimate government led by Hamas was elected democratically- before this period were rockets being fired into Israel?
.
Actually I am well aware of Israel's suffocating blockade of the Gaza Strip - and before that, the international sanctions placed on the Hamas-led Palestinian govt in 2006. I also know that this was a reaction to Hamas' non-recognition of Israel and commitment to its destruction, as enshrined in its charter. When later Hamas seized control of the Gaza strip, sanctions were eased on the West Bank, but the Gaza blockade was tightened even further, as it remains to this day. Now unless you are new to Middle Eastern politics, this eventuality should not be a surprise to you. Did you really expect Israel and its allies to grant any favors to a government that is fanatically devoted to Israel's destruction? Likewise, Israel's recent response to Hamas' rocket-fire ought to have been entirely predictable. This leaves us with questions over the purpose and effectiveness of Hamas' strategy in dealing with Israel. Is it capable of destroying Israel with rocket fire? If not, then what exactly do theyy seek to gain by pursuing their military strategy?
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How could these poor people survive these hardship?
Yes they are in pitiful shape, but who is primarily responsible for their security and well-being? Is it not their democratically elected govt, the Hamas? How does provoking Israel into characteristic brutality line up with the Hamas' obligations to its people?
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When One Jew is killed it becomes a Breaking news but no body cares when 20-100 Palestinians are mercilessly killed such news is reported casually. Matsiyata ... saura kadan su boye bayan dutse ditsenma ya fallashesu.
UNITED NATTIONS AND THE WEST HYPOCRISY:
1. Israel gets its supply of weapons from USA,
2. The United Nations has passed many kangaroo resulutions against Israel's aggression and Terrorism- Israel and its child USA have never respected these resolutions.
Are you serious? I can barely watch the news these days without being bombarded with stories of rising casualty figures and scenes of mayhem in Gaza, as well as condemnation of Israel pouring from all corners of the globe, apparently including Kano! I don't recall such coverage when Hamas ceremoniously announced the end of the ceasefire and intensified its rocket launches. If anyone at all is playing the propanganda game to good effect, it certainly is not Israel - case in point, Dan Borno's graphic pictures. Your comments like many others on this thread are purely emotional outbursts that have no connection with reality. And here is where Palestinian and Arab leaders has failed woefully over the years; in coming to grips with the cold reality of Israel.

This might be hard for you to believe, but I hold no personal brief for Israel. I find it quite easy to empathize with the plight of the Palestinian people post-1948. We can sit here crying about the bitter injustice of their situation but when the tears have dried up we must behold the grim specter of a strong Israel, an economic and military powerhouse that must be reckoned with on that basis. Until Palestinian and Arab leaders come up with strategies based on this reality rather than purely on popular rhetoric, ideological fantasies or fear-mongering tactics as typified by Lawwali's "Greater Israel" claptrap, ordinary Palestinians will continue to be clueless and helpless victims.

The reality also is that although Hamas enjoys popular support in the Middle East, many Arab governments view it with great suspicion. This explains why many Arab nations have been loathe to offering any real support apart from condemning Israel. Egypt, infact, joined Israel in blockading the Gaza Strip after Hamas took over in 2007. For its part, Hamas has played the PR game well enough. But it will have to come up with ways to get around the the blockade or make concessions to Israel if it wishses to provide any lasting relief for Gaza. As long as Hamas in its present form remains in control of Gaza, they will remain in isolation. And I dareseay, EMTL, that Hamas' primary duty is to ensure the well-being of its people, and not convert them into glorious martyrs for an impossible cause.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 10:29:21 PM by Cekenah »

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2009, 08:32:04 PM »
The professor represents the views of very many Jews around the world including very many Jews in Israel itself. Do not blame all Jews for the evil behaviour of the state of Israel.
maigemu

Offline Cekenah

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2009, 11:03:30 PM »
The professor represents the views of very many Jews around the world including very many Jews in Israel itself. Do not blame all Jews for the evil behaviour of the state of Israel.

In the specific context of this conflict, the overwhelming majority of Israelis supports their govt's actions - or so the polls tell us.

Avi Shlaim makes some valid points about Israel's culpability in the present Gazan mess, though I must say that, based on the evidence of this article, he isn't much more than the ideological opposite of Alan Dershowitz  ;D. Indeed, Israel must accept the reality of thw two-state solution, and the ultimate demise of settlements in the occupied territories. Israel must also recognize that its policy of isolation with the Hamas has not quite yielded any dividends as of yet. And as Shlaim rightly points out, it was always doubtful that military action in itself would stem the tide of Qassam rockets from the Strip. Indeed we all know this will end, but as someone said, the variable is the number of innocents that will die.

Offline Muhsin

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2009, 11:25:57 AM »
@Cekenah,

I thoroughly read your responses to EMTL and Dave. And I come to one single conclusion as; all the blames should be heaped to Hamas. Furthermore, they are the cause of all the hardship, which is the worst in history of Middle East, the Gazans are facing. That just a heresay, if I may call it. Or an incredolous lie.

As you claim yourself to be; vastly knowlegeable on that long lasting crisis. Can't you remember just recently there was cease fire aggrement between Hamas and the barbaric Israel before the eruption of this ongoing war? Who broke it? Israel, ofcourse. They murderously killed 6 innocent Palestinians. What followed that? Hamas started lucning fire rockets to Israel town, i.e after been provoked by Israel. And then the juggernaut started this merciless massacre.

I heard on BBC an interview with one of  Hamas leaders. He very courageosly although pitifully said "what the rest of the world are they expecting us to do? Wave white flag or fold our arms while the barbarous IDF continue with their bombardement"? They have to respond even it means an end to their breath. I support that. Israel claim protecting its ciotizen by 'trying' all they could to stop rocket and Hamas is also aptly right to protect the citizens of Gaza, i think. And remeber who first ignite the flame? Thus who is to rightly be blamed?

Lets be realistic and tell truth. As Jesus says; "it will save you".

Muhsin
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Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2009, 12:54:28 PM »
You are correct, Mushin.
Hamas is a reaction to the evil policy of Israel.
It is like somebody beats you very severely then blames you if you decide to defend yourself.
Despite the efforts of Israel and the disgusting support it gets from the US most of the world is not fooled. The more Israel bombs Gaza the stronger Hamas will become.
Many Jews recognise this but most Jews in Israel are probably too close to the violence and too influenced by propaganda from their Government to see the truth.

It is hoped that Obama will change US policy but the signs are not hopeful.
maigemu

Offline lionger

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2009, 04:26:58 PM »
Here with go again...

Interesting comments from Cekenah; for the most part well-balanced in my opinion. These discussions often do not go anywhere because most people prefer to heap blame on one side based on personal bias and barely pay attention to the immediate facts; let alone analyzing them objectively. It is extremely naive to suggest, as many are doing here, that everything will be cool if Israel would just quit its evil ways. Nor is it reasonable to suggest, as I would probably be accused of doing by Kano-online  ;D -  that Hamas and terrorists like them are the sole enemies of peace. Neither rocket fire nor disproportionate military retaliation will bring either side any real gains. I mean, we all know that eventually, after a while a new cease-fire agreement will will be negotiated. What then will be the big difference b/w that time and pre-December 27 apart from the fact that 1000+ Palestinians are now dead?  ???

As for those of you who think Obama will support your side of the story...well, Obama visited Sderot in southern Israel last year and said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFoj-PKJhck
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 04:40:13 PM by lionger »

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2009, 05:17:04 PM »
Thoughtful post, Lionger
The difference, when all this is finished, will be that the Palestinians and the whole of the rest of the Middle East will hate Israel even more, Hamas will recruit thousands more at the expense of the more moderate Fatah, it will only be a matter of time till Hamas starts to fight back again - which will give Israel the excuse it is looking for to attack Gaza again and try to drive the Palestinians into the sea which was the avowed aim of the Zionists when Israel was founded, on land seized from innocent Palestinians, and I very much doubt if the US will do anything just or fair or moral about it.
maigemu

Offline Muhsin

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2009, 06:13:47 PM »
Here with go again...

Interesting comments from Cekenah; for the most part well-balanced in my opinion. These discussions often do not go anywhere because most people prefer to heap blame on one side based on personal bias and barely pay attention to the immediate facts; let alone analyzing them objectively. It is extremely naive to suggest, as many are doing here, that everything will be cool if Israel would just quit its evil ways. Nor is it reasonable to suggest, as I would probably be accused of doing by Kano-online  ;D -  that Hamas and terrorists like them are the sole enemies of peace. Neither rocket fire nor disproportionate military retaliation will bring either side any real gains.

Rubbish. Blatant propaganda. Utterly biased post.

As for those of you who think Obama will support your side of the story...well, Obama visited Sderot in southern Israel last year and said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFoj-PKJhck

You quite misuderstood me. I vented my venom because I was thinking he rather toyed with out talents by saying there shouldn't be two voices--his and Bush's. I very well know he has been speeking on many other issues nd why not this one, then? He spoke on Mumbai attacks, Iraq, Afghanistan to mention but few. But that was before Husnaa explained it.

Thoughtful post, Lionger
The difference, when all this is finished, will be that the Palestinians and the whole of the rest of the Middle East will hate Israel even more, Hamas will recruit thousands more at the expense of the more moderate Fatah, it will only be a matter of time till Hamas starts to fight back again - which will give Israel the excuse it is looking for to attack Gaza again and try to drive the Palestinians into the sea which was the avowed aim of the Zionists when Israel was founded, on land seized from innocent Palestinians, and I very much doubt if the US will do anything just or fair or moral about it.

Very reasonable. You are more fair than your friend, Dave.

BTW, the pigs are currently using white phosporous as smook screen. And that has devastating effect to human boby--Palestinians civilians. And moreso, using it is against world humanitarian... Dama only su and their strong cursed allied ever used it at war in recent years. US in Fallujah and the IDF in Labanon. May God punish the culprit, amin.
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Offline Cekenah

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2009, 11:48:24 PM »
@Cekenah,

I thoroughly read your responses to EMTL and Dave.
We shall see if that was truly the case.

Quote
And I come to one single conclusion as; all the blames should be heaped to Hamas. Furthermore, they are the cause of all the hardship, which is the worst in history of Middle East, the Gazans are facing. That just a heresay, if I may call it. Or an incredolous lie.
In other words, you clearly did not read my post thoroughly enough. I apportioned blame to Israel in my response to Dave, at the very least.

Quote
As you claim yourself to be; vastly knowlegeable on that long lasting crisis.

When did I make such a claim?

Quote
Can't you remember just recently there was cease fire aggrement between Hamas and the barbaric Israel before the eruption of this ongoing war? Who broke it? Israel, ofcourse.

Actually both sides occasionally violated the truce during its tenure. The rocket fire from Gaza decreased but never actually ceased, while Israel did not completely open its borders and later made military incursions into Gaza.
Quote
They murderously killed 6 innocent Palestinians. What followed that? Hamas started lucning fire rockets to Israel town, i.e after been provoked by Israel. And then the juggernaut started this merciless massacre.
Er, those Palestinians you speak of weren't so 'innocent'. Apparently they were Hamas militants attempting to build tunnels across the Israel-Gaza border.

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I heard on BBC an interview with one of  Hamas leaders. He very courageosly although pitifully said "what the rest of the world are they expecting us to do? Wave white flag or fold our arms while the barbarous IDF continue with their bombardement"? They have to respond even it means an end to their breath. I support that. Israel claim protecting its ciotizen by 'trying' all they could to stop rocket and Hamas is also aptly right to protect the citizens of Gaza, i think. And remeber who first ignite the flame? Thus who is to rightly be blamed?
Muhsin, in mid-Decenber both sides expressed a readiness to extend the cease-fire but did not agree to terms. On December 20, Hamas announced that the cease-fire was over and intensified its rocket-fire into southern Israel, while blaming Israel for the end of the cease-fire. A week later Israel responded with 'disproportionate' force and the rest is current news.

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Lets be realistic and tell truth. As Jesus says; "it will save you".
;D Um, I think the 'truth' that Jesus was talking about there was his teaching, which includes his identity as God. Do you believe in Jesus as Savior and Lord? If not, then you're stealing my line kid. ;D

Offline Muhsin

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2009, 12:55:58 PM »
Well, Mr Cekenah, its interesting reading your reply. Can't say why but yes it's.  ;D

Although I lack such enough time to be quoting, quoting your post, answering everything you said now, I'd like to give you some few answers in a form I call all-in-one.

Reagrding who first broke the recent ceasefire aggrement, simply follow that link; http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008

And concerning the 'place' of Jesus in my mind/heart; he is a messenger of Allah and NOT god. So our Qur'an says. Period!
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Israel New Agression
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2009, 08:10:24 PM »
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y

Song for Gaza
maigemu

 


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