Author Topic: The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..  (Read 16104 times)

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Offline dan kauye

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« on: August 15, 2006, 12:34:17 PM »
The thrill of victory.The agony of defeat.I recall someone on this board saying Israel's going to come out of this war ''unscarthed'',as always.That doesn't seem to be the case ,atleast from my own perspective.Hezbollah not taken out,threat not eliminated,and captives not returned (yet).I'd be glad if someone throws in sone light about what Israel has benefited from this war ,except killing a thousand civilians,and causing an infrastructure damage worth of $ 2 billion.On a second thought,killing a 1000 civilians is a major success for the Israeli's...
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Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2006, 11:38:31 PM »
It is worth noting that not all Israelis support the barbaric and murderous behviour of the Israeli Government.
There is very strong opposition developing in Israel itself , led by those who understand that Israel's current behaviour will eventually lead to the either the destruction of Israel or the Third World War
maigemu

Offline hikma

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shame on america/israel
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2006, 01:23:10 PM »
israelis went 2 war 4 just no cause at-all. their action has been nd still is, vindictive as always. they are simply war mongerers nd d world, despite d supposedly mute game it played nd still is playing, wouldnt 4get in d nearest future, d israelis LUST 4 d blood of d innocent-civilians they invaded nd massacred in lebanon. more-so their notority in killin d palestinians on daily basis. if, we as muslims, are incapacitated by d lack of american/their allieds support, then we have d support of d ALMIGHTY nd wen it comes, where would america or israel or their dubious allieds face or hide? ``certainly, in d end victory shall b wit d believers``

4 now shame on d israelis on their fruitless offensive nd destruction of lives nd properties in lebanon. but they should put in mind dat ``they cant eat their cake nd have it`` always!

Offline Ete

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2006, 07:34:15 PM »
So I suppose it is your view that Israel should sit back and allow herself to be attacked at will by Muslim terrorists  and do nothing about it.  I tell you, Israel is not Nigeria where christians get attacked at will by Muslim fanatics without any consequence.  Regardless of how many unprovoked attacks are visited on the innocent non Muslims in Nigeria by the intolerant Muslims, the irresponsible leadership does nothing to bring the perpetrators of such violence to account.  

I think many radical Muslims and their supporters have gotten used to the idea that they can carry out senseless slaughter of innocent people and not be held responsible.  There used to be a time, where Europe was the main target of fascist Islamic terrorism.  They would hijack planes at will, blow up restaurants, and walk free because the complascent European governments either lacked the will to combat terror or did not fully comprehend the magnitude of the unfolding univeral problem.

Israel did what she had to do to protect herself and in the process serve notice that she will go to any length to protect  her citizens.  I think it is irresponsible of anyone to call Israel's action criminal.  Israel's action is not only just, but necessary.  There are people living under the illusion that Hezbollah won a victory. I wonder how one claims victory when they lost far more men than the opposing side, and got pushed back 20 miles away from the border where they were a nuisance.  

The only action of Israel that I disagree with is her strategy going into battle. Israeli army was busy targetting hezbollah infrastructure and personnel knowing quite well that the cowardly Hezbollah hides among civilian population, and uses civilians as human shield which by the way is a violation of the Geneva convention.  Given this kind of complexity, I would have prefered that they level every town where Hezbollah was hiding in.  They should not have been cautious or selective of the targets they bombed.  I simply would have levelled an entire community. This way, everything including the hiding Hezbollah militants are obliterated in the process.  If that were the case, future hosts of terrorist groups would think twice about granting terror groups residence in their communities knowing the consequence that may one day unfold.

And Dave here keeps spreading disinformation. I wonder where he gets his own news from. Obviously he gets his reports exclusively from Al Jazeera.  He keeps spreading lies about  an opposition developing in Isreal. Absolute nonsense. The Isreali public were in full support of their government all through the offensive. What people are weary about is the decision to abide by the cease-fire agreement. Many feel that the Israeli Army should have continued until it simply crushed Hezbollah.  Dave, you are really funny.  In your strange mind,  you believe Israel will plunge the World into a World war?  During the first World War, whose side were the Muslims on? Were the Muslims, Turks, and palestinians not on the side of Germany?

When has Israel come close to causing a world war? Please name one instance.  In all the Arab-Isreali wars, name one time when Israel started a war against the Arabs. Name one time where Israel has bombed embassies in Africa killing Africans.  Name one time when Isrealis have hijacked anyone's plane and killed its occupants.  Name one time where Israel has used WMD on anyone of its neighbors.  If you cannot name one incident to any of these questions, how in your mind, is Israel the problem?

I am tired like Waziri of hearing the lies and squabbles of Arabs. They lie at will and never in honesty look at the entire picture or the cause and effect of any situation. They pick their crying points when and where it suits them but conveniently leave out their own complicity
in the problem. I ask again, when has Arabs/Muslims ever taken responsibility for anything at all. Even when they are dead wrong, they NEVER take responsibility because in their minds (and we've seen that attitude here in this forum by some self procliamed genuis) they are always right.

They riot all over the damn place causing injury and death to innocent people, but they are still right and everyone else is wrong.

They are killing and displacing black Africans in Sudan, but,  they are not wrong.  They are right, and  everyone else is wrong.  

They got so mad because some Danish tabloid dared to portray Mohammed, and went on the usual rampage which ultimately led to over 200 deaths in Nigeria. No, they are not wrong, they are right and everyone is wrong.  How can they be wrong, allah forbid.

They can hijack commercial planes and crash it into buildings killing thousands of people in the process, but no, they are not wrong.  Everyone else is wrong. It has to be western policy towards them. That is why, so they are not wrong......nooooooooooooo, allah forbid that they be wrong.
They are rightm everyone else is wrong.

The list goes on and on. Is it possible for fanatical Muslims to be right always? If it is not, when do they ever take responsibility?

All this claim by the Iranian President that allah's promise had been fulfilled in reference to the Israel/Hezbollah conflict is really sketchy to me. I wonder what the promise is exactly. At the end of the day, most of south Lebanon is ruins.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2006, 11:44:27 PM »
Ete says "most of South Lebanon is in ruins". Exactly. And most of South Lebanon was full of innocent civilians, over 1000 of whom have ben killed by the Israelis. And 1,000,000 are now homeless.
Let me repeat Israel has been guilty of huge war crimes in this action and have been able to do so because they are supported by the USA (and Tony Blair)
EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD OPPOSES ISRAEL'S BARBARIC BEHAVIOUR. ISRAEL ACTUALLY BOMBED THE CHRISTIAN AREAS OF SOUTH BEIRUT AS WELL WHICH HAD NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO WITH HESBOLLAH.
International law makes it a crime to destroy a country's infrastucture, to target civilain areas and to destroy essential civilian services. Israel deliberately did all these things.
All the time this action was going on in Lebanon Israel was continuing its murderous behaviour in Gaza. It has killed nearly 200 Palestinians in the Gaza strip since it invaded Lebanon. Just last week it shelled a picnic party of Palestinian children on the beach.
The continued to shell and kill neutral United Nations observers in Lebanon despite being asked NINE TIMES by the Iirish Government to stop doing so. They have ignored over 250 United Nations Resolutions regarding their illegal invasion and occupation of huge parts of Palestinian lands.

Ete says Israel has the right to defend itself. Lets get this straight! Hesbollah was not firing hundreds of shells into Israel until Israel started flattening huge areas of Lebanon with American supplied bunkerbuster bombs. Are not the Lebanese Hesbollah entitled to defend themselves?
The tiny country of Lebanon has never invaded,attacked or occupied any one else's country. It is in fact the most peaceful and most democratic of the Middle Eastern States in which people of all religions live peacefully together. As Nigeria knows most Lebanese people just want to sell things.
Is the fact that Lebanon is so small the reason why the Israel cowards, with the world's fourth largest army, armed to teeth with the latest American arms, attacks it.
Well done Hesbollah! Despite the facy of being outnumbered and lightly armed they have actually defeated the Israelis in the field.
Ete, you have swallowed all the American rubbish in support of Israel.
Do you live in America by any chance?
maigemu

Offline lionger

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2006, 11:47:48 PM »
Choi, see me see trouble; Ete you don come again. Wow! You are worse than the Israelis  :lol: !! Mince your words I beg you; you are headed for a brutal head-on collision with the other posters on this thread/forum and it won't be pretty. I'm even considering a semi-retirement from these discussions cuz of the extreme polarity on both sides and the antagonism that might surface (and already has). While obviously I share your general stance on Israel, there are several rather harsh things you said that I'd like to highlight.

First of all you're bringing a lot of 'external' issues into fray, and your characterisation/criticism of Muslims and Arabs is unfair and a bit inflammatory. Let's be careful to include appropriate context with these criticisms. For one thing, you should consistently clarify what section of Muslims you are refering to, because you seem to be casting a blanket statement on all muslims and I'm sure that's not what you mean. For instance, I think you'll agree with me that the 'muslim' riots in Nigeria is strictly a Northern phenomenon; we don't have these problems in the south-west. You speak of muslim agression over the Danish cartoon fracas, in the Sudan, in 9/11 etc. These are external issues, and perhaps its best to leave them out of this discussion. I think you're trying to say that the 'muslim world' i.e. many muslim countries/regional bodies is not balanced in admitting/targetting their own internal failures/injustices as well as those from the external. To this I agree, but we should be careful not to make extremely negative sweeping statements on all muslims/Arabs, if not things will get ugly very quickly.

Next I find this post of yours rather shocking and incredible:
Quote
The only action of Israel that I disagree with is her strategy going into battle. Israeli army was busy targetting hezbollah infrastructure and personnel knowing quite well that the cowardly Hezbollah hides among civilian population, and uses civilians as human shield which by the way is a violation of the Geneva convention. Given this kind of complexity, I would have prefered that they level every town where Hezbollah was hiding in. They should not have been cautious or selective of the targets they bombed. I simply would have levelled an entire community. This way, everything including the hiding Hezbollah militants are obliterated in the process. If that were the case, future hosts of terrorist groups would think twice about granting terror groups residence in their communities knowing the consequence that may one day unfold.

You can't really mean this Ete. What you're advocating here (for all practical purposes) is mass elimination of the entire Southern Lebanese community! This is an even worse violation of the Geneva convention!! Even if it destroys Hizballah, the incident will serve as a rallying call all over the world and will end up creating much worse security problems for Israel. No, no, Ete I strongly urge you to reconsider your position. Yes Hezbollah does not carry itself as a conventional army would, but surely that can't be used as an excuse for genocide?! I still have severe reservations about Israel's handling of this war and the near-1000 lost Lebanese lives.

Quote
And Dave here keeps spreading disinformation. I wonder where he gets his own news from. Obviously he gets his reports exclusively from Al Jazeera. He keeps spreading lies about an opposition developing in Isreal. Absolute nonsense. The Isreali public were in full support of their government all through the offensive. What people are weary about is the decision to abide by the cease-fire agreement. Many feel that the Israeli Army should have continued until it simply crushed Hezbollah. Dave, you are really funny. In your strange mind, you believe Israel will plunge the World into a World war? During the first World War, whose side were the Muslims on? Were the Muslims, Turks, and palestinians not on the side of Germany?

You are rather harsh on Dave here, as you were before on Waziri's thread. Actually I agree at least partially with what he has said here. He is not completely wrong. See this BBC article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4792261.stm
I personally see this as a very encouraging sign that at least the Israeli citizens have not succombed to the madness of mob mentality which destroys any chance of objective self-criticism and propriety in future actions. As you said, there was/is a strong concensus in Israel on the need for a strong response against Hezbollah. Whether they fully support their govermnent's actions in this regard is another matter. I'm not so sure of Dave's conclusions that the Israeli people fear the hastening of a third world war because of their govt's actions, or your conclusion that they did not want their govt to abide with the cease-fire. Do you have any sources to back this up? The truth may well be in-between.

In any case I still agree with you on the justification of Israel's response to Hezbollah and its right to defend itself, as well as the complicity of Hezbollah itself in starting this conflict. I thoroughly disagree with hikma's contribution here and find his inclusion of religious sentiment to be a bit ill-advised. Israel and its supporters can fall back on plenty of religious 'dogma' if they wanted to; two can play at this game! Above all lets keep things civil and not throw all sorts of wild allegations around.

God bless,
lionger

Offline lionger

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2006, 02:59:42 AM »
Hello Dave,

I disagree with much of what you have said here as factually incorrect. First of all, there is no need to bring the US or UK into this. Israel's actions would have been the same regardless of support from either of these countries don't you agree?

Also you made reference to the death of several UN Observers in Lebanon and Israel's non-compliance with UN resolutions:

Quote
The continued to shell and kill neutral United Nations observers in Lebanon despite being asked NINE TIMES by the Iirish Government to stop doing so. They have ignored over 250 United Nations Resolutions regarding their illegal invasion and occupation of huge parts of Palestinian lands.


Well concerning the deaths of the UN observers, the IAF should be blamed partly for it, but also the Hezbollah. Frankly it wouldn't have happened if the Hezbollah had not used the UN post as a cover (which they were!). This of course is rather consistent with their tactics in 'blending among civilians' as UN official Jan Egeland put it and rightly condemned the Hezbollah for. Shortly after this happened I listened to a radio show interview of retired Major Lewis MacKenzie, who was a former UN Commander in Bosnia. A few days before the attack, he received a email from one of the soldiers formerly under his command, Major Hess-von Kruedener (who would die in the IAF attack), complaining of the fact that the Hezbollah were using the UN post as shields and that the IDF was targeting areas near the post as a result. See this article:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3282569,00.html

The other articles contain references to Hezbollah's 'blending' tactics:

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=311313&sid=WOR
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5232434.stm

As for the Israel's disobedience to UN resolutions, they are not alone there, even among their neighbors and those directly involved in this conflict. The disbanding of the Hezbollah and exertion of control over southern Lebanon was also sanctioned by about two or three UN resolutions but the Lebanese government never did so. This to me is one of the deep underlying causes of this conflict. In fact I think that the Lebanese goverment's failure to keep foreign paramilitary organizations out of southern Lebanon is the major cause of all its miseries with Israel over the past 30+ years.

Quote
Ete says Israel has the right to defend itself. Lets get this straight! Hesbollah was not firing hundreds of shells into Israel until Israel started flattening huge areas of Lebanon with American supplied bunkerbuster bombs. Are not the Lebanese Hesbollah entitled to defend themselves?

What are you talking about here? This conflict did not start with Israel; it started with the Hezbollah. It started on 12 July when the Hezbollah launched mortars and rockets into Israel, crossed the border and captured two Israeli coldiers and killed three others. Israel only responsed.
Quote
The tiny country of Lebanon has never invaded,attacked or occupied any one else's country. It is in fact the most peaceful and most democratic of the Middle Eastern States in which people of all religions live peacefully together. As Nigeria knows most Lebanese people just want to sell things.
Is the fact that Lebanon is so small the reason why the Israel cowards, with the world's fourth largest army, armed to teeth with the latest American arms, attacks it.

One: The Lebanese government may never have entered direct conflict with any other country, but in the past 30 years several foreign organizations outside of its control and  within its territory (the PLO, PFLP and recently the Hezbollah) have launched constant indiscriminate attacks on Israel. All these indiscretions has drawn angst from Israel resulting in misery for the Lebanese people. Speaking of which...

Two: I'm not sure if Lebanon has  been a haven of peace in its post-independence history. They did have a very destructive 15-year civil war from 1975-1990 due to internal christian-muslim strife, the PLO, and Syrian/Israeli intervention. Since then there have been several recent outbreaks of sporadic violence such as the murder of former prime minister Hariri last year and the muslim-christian clashes during the Danish cartoons brouhaha.

Three: Lebanon's smallness/weakness is not the reason for Israel's attack on it in the light of all that has been said; this is not a reasonable statement. How can anyone say this in light of the facts? Israel attacked because of Hezbollah provocation, this has been obvious from day one. Till date I have not heard of one skirmish involving Israeli and Lebanese soldiers. This war is not Israel vs Lebanon, it is about Israel vs. Hezbollah!

I find it rather odd that you would congratulate Hezbollah for 'winning' the war. What exactly have they won? Their only success is in holding onto the captured Israeli soldiers. Both sides are declaring victory and I find this rather stupid. This war is all about losers, and the biggest loser is Lebanon!

Peace to you,
lionger

Offline Ete

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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2006, 04:02:43 AM »
Lionger,  Ok. I  understand your sentiments, and I will as you say temper my comments with some degree of subtleness. The problem is I do not know how to mince my words. I am a rather blunt person.

Now, Dave believes I have been fed American propaganda. Dave, whose propaganda have you been fed? Al Jazeera?  You also wanted to know if I live in America.  Yes, I am a Nigerian-American, and I live here in the states. I have served in the Marines. Have you ever served in the marine corp?

You again delude yourself by claiming that Hezbollah defeated Israeli forces in lebanon.  Since you've never been in combat how would you know what defeat means?  You sit down in Europe or where ever you are and form a twisted opinion of the conflict based on false premise and portrayed by the Arabs thereby being totally blind to the facts. I challenged you in a different thread to provide the chronology of the Arab-Israeli conflict and let's see which side started the violence, but you danced around the challenge and refused to go that route because the truth may be too bitter for you to swallow.

I gave you instance when Isreal were forced to war against an overwhelming Arab war machine but beat the odds and came out on top every single time.  As usual, you ran away from those facts. Here you are now, blaming America for its political and military support of Israel. You reasoning makes me wonder what goes through your head.  To you, it is ok for  the Arabic forces of Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and co. to join forces and wage war against Israel as they did in 1948, and 57, and 67, but it is not ok for Israel to have an ally in the US.  Maybe you've been smoking too much opium from Afghanistan Dave, and if that's the case,  I encourage you to smoke some more.  

The fact is, even if Israel gave up its entire territory to the Arabs, they still wouldn't be satisfied.  How can they live without conflict? That would be the day.  There is nothing Israel can do that will bring peace to the region because the Arabs simply are not peace loving. Without Isreal to wage war against,  they'll take on Europe and Islamize the damn place forcing Dave to grow long beard and lose his freedoms and civil liberties.  Then him and millions of folks like him will be the first to look to America for rescue.

Lionger, my previous post was not really out of context. I may have strayed a little out of the confines of the argument, but I was merely trying to show a pattern of behavior of a people that share the same ideology because at the end, it is all connected.

Offline Ete

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 05:37:44 AM »
Well, now it is clear how distorted Dave's facts are.  I have all along shown how he consistently misrepresents facts.  I rest my case. But  just to show how Dave how incorrect his assertions are, he said...."the tiny nation of Lebanon has never invaded, attacked, or occupied anyone country....."

Then maybe David should explain how between November 1947?March 1949, these countries went to war against Israel:

Egypt
Syria
Transjordan
Lebanon
Iraq
Holy War Army
Arab Liberation Army

Capabilities/Strength:

Egypt: 10,000 initially rising to 20,000
Iraq: 5,000 initially rising to 15?18,000
Syria: 2,500?5,000
Transjordan: 6,000?12,000

LEBANON: 1,000 initially rising to 2,000 (Pollack, 2004; Sadeh, 1997)

Saudi: 800?1,200
An unknown number of Yemeni troops
Arab Liberation Army (led by Fawzi Al-Qawuqji) 3,500-6,000.


Please Dave, I am not interested in any long diatribe. Just explain how Lebanon happens to be among the league of Arab nations that invaded Israel, yet according to you, they never attacked or invaded anybody. Please explain, or is this false western propagada as well?  Luckily any historical source you check will present the same exact information, including those authored by Arabs. So choose your pick, but answer my question.

Offline Muhsin

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2006, 03:03:47 PM »
Ete:"Israel did what she had to do to protect herself and in the process serve notice that she will go to any length to protect her citizens. I think it is irresponsible of anyone to call Israel's action criminal. Israel's action is not only just, but necessary"

Well, as it's written below your name as a member in this forum, you are a Sr. member, so you deserve to be respected by me(as a member with no rank) and by any body like me.But......
Frankly speaking, your above statement absolutely amazed me. It stirred me to start thinking where(religion) do you really belong to. I am very sure you are not a Jew, are you?
My bro. you must fall in the class of either Muslims/Christians, so, please what can you say about killing of your tenth Muslims/Christians bothers? And also their kids etc?
Presently, even the leader of Christian party has completely condemed their(Israel) act talkless of Muslims leaders, which Hizbollah itself is under the umbrella of it.
Lastly, I'll be very much happy if you become fair in your words.
God bless us all!
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline Ete

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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2006, 05:53:32 PM »
Muhsin, that exactly is the problem.  This was never about religion, and I think it is important to see clearly through this conflict, rather then muddy up the facts.  This problem began when Hebollah killed 8 Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two.  Prior to that, Hebollah had been firing rockets into Israel from southern Lebanon right under the nose of the Lebanese government.  In any world, that is considered a sign of aggression. So the question I have for you is this, if you were in Israel's shoes, what would you do?  Sit and fold your arms while you continually get attacked?

Regarding religion, I am not a religious person.  I am someone that sees things for what they are. People have committed insane acts under the name of religion.  This is why Lionger and myself said earlier and very clearly, that this is not about religion, but certain people here cannot seperate religion from anything else and as such their argument is clouded.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 10:20:51 PM »
I repeat Israel has been guilty of war crimes in this invasion of Lebanon and its reaction to a few soldiers being kidnapped or shot has been completely disproportionate.
Terrorists hiding among civilians does not in any way justify killing hundreds of those civilians to get the terrorists.
I am surprised that Ete thinks to do so is okay. This is a war crime!
There is now internal turmoil in Israel as so many Israel citizens now understand that Israel's action has failed and has produced more and more opponents prepared to take up arms against Israel (which kills Palestinian women and children on a daily basis).
Israel is illegally occupying huge areas of the Palestinians lands and has forced the whole Palestinian nation into a narrow strip of land which is no more than a prison camp.Israel (and its sponser the US) is completely responsible for the hate that is justly directed against it.
Israel has recently kidnapped members of the elected Palestinian authority.
Israeli casualties in the current action is a tiny proportion of the innocent Lebanese casualties.
Israel's action as well as being barbaric and illegal has been very stupid as it has hugely strengthened Hesbollah who are recruiting young men by the thousands at the moment.
I will post a collection of statements made by Israel Prime Ministers  agains the people whose land they occupy when I put it together.
Then some people may understand what is going on.
In Edinbugh, Scotland at the weekend Jews, Moslems and Christians marched together in a huge demonstration against the action of Israel in the Middle East.
Don't bother supplying me with any more American spin on this.
maigemu

Offline Ete

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2006, 01:10:11 AM »
Dave, you keep running away from tackling simple factual questions put before you.  You said authoritatively that Lebanon has never invaded or attacked Isreal. I refute that false claim and present you with undeniable facts that Lebanon has infact been involved in an attack on Israel.
But you completely avoided that in your next post, but go on talking about how disproportionate the Israeli action was. Was that the bone of contention initially?

Dave, there is nothing you can put together than will bring any sudden awareness or revelation. I took you down history lane on this so called occupation, but being so brainwashed by Arab propaganda as most Europeans are, you failed to follow history as it unfolded. You should go back and read my post thoroughly and you'll see the sequence of events. I have challenged you repeatredly to something, anything at all to refute my submissions, but you do not. You go on and on with your anti semitic tirade.

Let me try one more time,

1. Can you present to everyone here a background information (that can be researched and verified) of how the Arab-Israeli conflict began.

2. Which side began violence against the other?

3.  Was the region called palestine a sovereign nation?

4.   Can you name the occupants of the palestinian territory prior to WW1?

5.   Can you explain how palenstine came to be owned by Palestinians

6.    Since Israel is occupying the territory illegally,  does it then mean
       Israel never existed as a nation or occupied a territory.

7.   The Arabs that invaded Jerusalem in the second second century, who
       did they sack from Jerusalem? Who were the occupants of the land?
       
8.     What was the UN solution to the growing Palestinian-Israeli issue of
        the early 1920s ? What did the UN and Britain recommend in order
        to establish peace? Why was the resolution made at all?

9.      The U.N land partition of Palestine,  how much territory did it give
         Israel.

10.     Do yourself a favor and be honest on this one:  How did Israel
         come to acquire more land than what she was originally given
         during the partitioning?

11.      When was the first major conflict involving the Arabs and Israel?
           If you can answer that question correctly, who attacked who first?

12.      Can you name the parties involved in the first Arab-Isreali conflict?
           Also,  show us what both sides military capabilities were.
           
12B.     Tell us what the outcome of that conflict was

13.        Regarding what is proportionate, do you think it is proportionate
            for seven different Armies representing seven nations to go
            against one nation in war? Do you think that is proportionate?


For now, I'll leave it at this. I think these are very simple and straight forward question. The question is, can you manage to respond to the each without going on irrelevantly? I await your response. No spins, just answer the questions. Thanks.

Offline HUSNAA

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2006, 08:48:09 AM »
Quote from: "Ete"
Lionger,  Ok. I  understand your sentiments, and I will as you say temper my comments with some degree of subtleness. The problem is I do not know how to mince my words. I am a rather blunt person.

Now, Dave believes I have been fed American propaganda. Dave, whose propaganda have you been fed? Al Jazeera?  You also wanted to know if I live in America.  Yes, I am a Nigerian-American, and I live here in the states. I have served in the Marines. Have you ever served in the marine corp?

You again delude yourself by claiming that Hezbollah defeated Israeli forces in lebanon.  Since you've never been in combat how would you know what defeat means?  You sit down in Europe or where ever you are and form a twisted opinion of the conflict based on false premise and portrayed by the Arabs thereby being totally blind to the facts. I challenged you in a different thread to provide the chronology of the Arab-Israeli conflict and let's see which side started the violence, but you danced around the challenge and refused to go that route because the truth may be too bitter for you to swallow.

I gave you instance when Isreal were forced to war against an overwhelming Arab war machine but beat the odds and came out on top every single time.  As usual, you ran away from those facts. Here you are now, blaming America for its political and military support of Israel. You reasoning makes me wonder what goes through your head.  To you, it is ok for  the Arabic forces of Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and co. to join forces and wage war against Israel as they did in 1948, and 57, and 67, but it is not ok for Israel to have an ally in the US.  Maybe you've been smoking too much opium from Afghanistan Dave, and if that's the case,  I encourage you to smoke some more.  

The fact is, even if Israel gave up its entire territory to the Arabs, they still wouldn't be satisfied.  How can they live without conflict? That would be the day.  There is nothing Israel can do that will bring peace to the region because the Arabs simply are not peace loving. Without Isreal to wage war against,  they'll take on Europe and Islamize the damn place forcing Dave to grow long beard and lose his freedoms and civil liberties.  Then him and millions of folks like him will be the first to look to America for rescue.

Lionger, my previous post was not really out of context. I may have strayed a little out of the confines of the argument, but I was merely trying to show a pattern of behavior of a people that share the same ideology because at the end, it is all connected.




I have a lot to say on this topic but one thing is that I really hate confrontational attitudes. It raises my blood levels just reading someone spouting what amounts to almost hate posts!! Ete  you are not blunt, you are aggressive confrontational and abusive. Your posts with respect to Dave Hill were very disrespectful, saying he has a strange mind, is deluded, smoking afghan opium, etc. Those were really uncalled for and what were also uncalled for were the other things that Lionger pointed out in his response to your first tirade. Also you are quick to label people as liars. You forget that all of us here even yourself were not at the actual scenes when these events were unfolding or unfolded. We read papers, articles views and observe things. We all form our opinions which of course are different; we air them. The least we can do is respect each others' views rather than take up a destructive attitude, which is just what you have been doing. If we had more like you in strategic positions, the world would have been nothing but a rubble long ago, if you really mean what you write about levelling an entire community. You would be worse than Hitler.

In the story of every conflict, there are two sides to it. Each side has an aspect of right and an aspect of wrong. I mean that no one is absolutely wrong and no one is absolutely right. But one's actions can tilt one either more to the side of right or to the side of wrong, and that is the same with the Arab/ Israeli issue. Depending on where one's main sympathies lie, one sees more of the aspect of what's wrong with the  opposing side rather than what's right about it. But we shouldnt get carried away so emotionally that we forget that when all is said and done, we are only by standers and onlookers, and if we mean to say something, we should show that we are mature adults and be polite and diplomatic. After all what we say to each other on this forum is not going to change the status quo of the affairs we discuss.

Another thing Ete, muslims do not take the name of Allah (SWT) very lightly, so please softly softly and dont cause any offence by being sarcastic with the name of God.

AOB: I believe yr testestorone levels are extremely high. That probably accounts for your aggressive stance. You should do something about that.

PPS. I almost think that you and sammy are the same man....he was just as intolerant in his style of posts............
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline Ete

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The Israeli/Lebanese conflict..
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2006, 01:19:34 PM »
Fine, after all is said and done, perhaps you too can respond to the questions I asked Dave above.  Thanks.

 


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