Author Topic: Churches in Saudi Arabia?  (Read 9770 times)

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Offline bamalli

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Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« on: April 02, 2008, 09:23:11 PM »
Churches in Saudi Arabia?[/s]

Time Magazine and other news agencies are reporting that negotiations are underway between Saudi Arabia and the Vatican, about the possibility of opening the first Christian church in the Kingdom.

To date, Islam is the only religion permitted to be worshipped publicly in Saudi Arabia. Some argue that freedom of religion should prevail, and that Muslims should reciprocate the freedom of religion enjoyed in non-Muslim countries. Others hold that Saudi Arabia is the center of Islamic history and culture, and therefore Islam should have special status in the Kingdom.

Offline King

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 01:03:04 AM »
Bamali, Islam already has special status in the Kingdom. It is the only game in town and has always been for decades if not century. If the Kingdom changes its policy to allow for freedom of worship, it will be viewed as a gesture of goodwill by non muslim residents and allies of the Saudi government alike. I think if and when that happens, many religious skeptics of the Saudi government's rigid stance of religious freedom will begin to view the Kingdom in a different light. Aside from this however, I think having a church or churches in Saudi will enable the non muslim skilled migrants workers and other foreign professionals in the Kingdom to worship freely in their own religious places where freedom of association and religious expression is protected. I believe such a move is a positive one. 

Offline Dan-Borno

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 09:45:59 AM »
the first time i read the story about siting a church in
saudi arabia i become so confused, does this means
that the christians living in saudi dont attend sunday
services and other church activities? if yes, then why
did the saudi government in the first place grant them
access to the country if they cant perform their freedom
of religion?

as far as Islam is concern, i didnt come across anywhere
that it restricts Ahl Kitab (Christians from performing their
religious rites) however, the case of Mecca and Medina
are well noted and absolute exception, but what about
the other states of the kingdom?
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Offline Muhsin

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 10:44:18 AM »
Assalamu alaikum,

When I first see this thread what came to me is; where are they going to build these churches? As DB pointed out, the case of Mecca and Medina are taken into consideration...then fine and good. But still, though don't know actually why, I feel unhappy with the move as for we muslims all over the world take S.A as pure, holy and restricted city for muslims.
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Offline gogannaka

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 01:47:31 PM »
Mecca and Madina could not get churches.
Other parts can get churches.

Are there mosques in the Vatican city?
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Offline thegood

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2008, 02:15:21 PM »
Give them an inch they take 100meters......They'r not the Ahlil-kital the Qur'an is refering to, the churches of today a mere business outfits looking for money to destroy Islam and it's followers...
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Offline lionger

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2008, 05:31:58 PM »
Mecca and Madina could not get churches.
Other parts can get churches.

Are there mosques in the Vatican city?

Interesting question. The Vatican City is the smallest city-state in the world. It's territory is a meagre 110-acre enclave sectioned off inside the city of Rome, and it only has 800 residents. This tiny population consists almost entirely of clergymen, cardinals and the Pope. The Swiss Guard accounts for the rest. One might consider the Vatican to be a glorified monastery of sorts. As such, it is easy to see why the Vatican is 100% Roman Catholic.

So are there any mosques in the Vatican City? No, because Catholic clergymen do not need a mosque. Should a Muslim find himself in the Vatican, he needs only to drive a few minutes to outer Rome, where his needs are more easily met. Now what is a Christian to do in Saudi Arabia, a full-fledged nation of 27 million? Public non-Muslim worship does not exist there, as as such there are no church buildings (this is for you, Dan Borno.) I read recently that Qatar just opened its first actual church building since the advent of Islam there eons ago - very hard to believe. As long as we're making comparisons, Muslims can visit the Vatican city as tourists and lay workers like most other people. Saudi's King Abdullah was recently hosted at the Vatican City last November. In contrast, can non-muslims actually enter Mecca or Medina? Gogannaka and Dan Borno, they cannot!

Guys, lets face the facts. Human rights groups have been singing about these issues for ages. Today, the fact that Muslim countries score badly on religious tolerance issues - with Saudi Arabia leading the pack - is well known. I strongly doubt that such things can be explained away with comparisons to the Vatican.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 05:52:47 PM by lionger »

Offline Muhsin

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2008, 04:22:43 PM »
Lionger,

The issue of not allowing non-muslim enter into either Mecca or Medina is something that comes in our holy script. It says that these two cities are sacred and thus no unbeliever should be allowed into them. So...think there is nothing if Saudi govt abide by that.

And about Vatican, where is it mentioned in your scripts that non-christian shouldn't be allowed into it? Don't know but pls if you do know let us know.

And lastly, I'll, inshaAllah, look for the crudility of what you said on the size and other stuff about Vatican because if thats what you say its then...thanks.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2008, 08:03:27 PM »
Just a small point. The koran considers those who follow judaism and those who follow Christ to be "believers". This appears to have been lost in recent years.
maigemu

Offline Muhsin

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2008, 10:50:33 AM »
Just a small point. The koran considers those who follow judaism and those who follow Christ to be "believers". This appears to have been lost in recent years.

?
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Offline GoodFella

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 11:54:42 AM »
that is utterly bad. no mosque in vatican, no church in saudi arabia, period!
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Offline lionger

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 01:59:58 PM »
Lionger,

The issue of not allowing non-muslim enter into either Mecca or Medina is something that comes in our holy script. It says that these two cities are sacred and thus no unbeliever should be allowed into them. So...think there is nothing if Saudi govt abide by that.
Actually this is fine by me. My comments about Mecca and Medina were designed to correct gogannaka's and Dan Borno's comment that the absense of Church buildings that made those cities unique. On the contrary, that is actually the norm everywhere in Saudi Arabia, by law.

Quote
And about Vatican, where is it mentioned in your scripts that non-christian shouldn't be allowed into it? Don't know but pls if you do know let us know.

The concept of the Vatican does not exist in the Bible, but that is completely besides the point. My point is that there is no reason why a miniscule town of 800+ Catholic clergymen should be held up to the same standards of religious freedom as a full-fledged nation of 27 million!

Quote
And lastly, I'll, inshaAllah, look for the crudility of what you said on the size and other stuff about Vatican because if thats what you say its then...thanks.
Try Wikipedia. My comments are consistent with the article there on the Vatican.




Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 12:06:41 AM »
What about all the mosques all over Europe in every Christian country? Every city in UK has several mosques. This is a very silly thread.
maigemu

Offline HUSNAA

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2008, 03:44:27 AM »
I think that in the next 1000 yrs, there will never be a church constructed in either Mecca or Medina. In the rest of the Saudi Kingdom maybe, but certainly not inside the vicinity of the two sacred cities.
We muslims really are the ones that have slipped so much that we have allowed a loop hole in which non muslims will accuse us of religious intolerance, Islam is the most tolerant of all religions.  Islam doesnt recognize nation states as we know them today. All Muslims regardless of where they live should be governed by one creed, one set of laws (Sharia) etc, etc. There should only be one Islamic ummah with a recognized ruler... the caliph. He should then have his governors and underlings who rule as his viceroys in the various regions of the world. In this scenario, this means that where ever there is a predominantly islamic population with a minority non muslim population, those non muslim population are given full rights to worship what they will, given full protection from harm from fellow citizens or enemies at the border. Their civic rights must not be jeopardized in anyway. In return they pay the jizya..a tax for the protection that they will receive from the state, mainly in times of war etc (that is what the tax is primarily for). In this scenario, if Mecca and Medina are exempted from having non muslim inhabitants, then no one will complain of violation of human rights of worship, since Mecca and Medina will not in essence belong to a country called Saudi Arabia, but will belong to the Islamic ummah as a community in which freedom of worship is given to every non muslim living amongst muslims.
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Offline King

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Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2008, 04:40:37 AM »
Islam is the most tolerant of all religions? Based on what? Give specific examples please.
I want to say also that I purchased a copy of the Koran for extensive study/research. Yesterday, I was reading a few passages or chapters, and one thing was very noticeable in the few passages that I read. I noticed that there were constant references to Jews and Christians. Whenever an admonition was given to the Muslims, there seemed to be an immediately attack or criticism of Jews and Christians. Now, I haven't read the entire book, but I am hoping the entire book does not follow the same pattern.

In any case, going back to the claims about Islam being the most tolerant, what about Buddhism for instance? Buddhist are not critical of anyone. They do not threaten or attempt to force their ideology on anyone. All they do is mediate and pursue a level of mental and spiritual discipline. I know for a fact based on obvious examples that there is no way Islam is anywhere near Buddhism in tolerance. If there is a disagreement with this view, please feel free to object.

 


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