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Re: North's vicious circle of Poverty

Started by _Waziri_, August 06, 2008, 01:33:30 PM

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Dave_McEwan_Hill

I find myself broadly in agreement with Waziri on the deliberate destruction of the middle class. The social structure of the North leads the upper class to empowerer a very small proportion of the people to be their tame management agents and keeps the rest of the population down.
maigemu

Muhsin

All there is to be said has been said by our forum elders. May Allah have His eternal mercy upon you, amin. Wallahi I wish I could write as such. I even printed some papers, for I know would some day help me in my studies. A special regard goes to Waziri for initiating the thread and of course Sheriff05. My compliment.

And to the thread's topic, I wholeheartedly believe with what Waziri, Dave and co-others have to say. Yes, upper class deliverately lead way to the demolishing and rather suffocating of middle class. Thus, we only now have upper and lower class. And that, I reckon, is not the case in many developed neither in the developing countries.

Oh Allah, bring bliss to our father land--Nigeria.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

HUSNAA

#32
Quote from: Dave_McEwan_Hill on August 25, 2008, 11:36:32 AM
I find myself broadly in agreement with Waziri on the deliberate destruction of the middle class. The social structure of the North leads the upper class to empowerer a very small proportion of the people to be their tame management agents and keeps the rest of the population down.

You see Dave, that is the crux of my contention. That is the fly in the ointment for me. Somehow I cant believe that the destruction was deliberate. I think it was the result of incredible bad and selfish leadership but not necessarily with the intent of destroying the middle class so to speak. Besides, we cant say this about the first northern leaders; ppl like Sardauna and Tafawa Balewa who were the epitome of northern aristocracy and yet were true northern patriots and selfless to boot. It was after the death of these stalwarts that we began to get leaders without vision. Honestly, what ever anyone will tell me about the leadership of Yakubu Gowon, I'd say that he was weak and had no direction. Infact it was a tragedy that he was chosen to lead. Imagine he was the one who was saying at the time of his tenure that Nigeria had so much money and didnt know what to do with it. Can you beat that? Meanwhile, there are the poor to educate (even though education was free then), roads to be built, transport infrastructures to sustain, maintain and improve. What he did was dish out money to neighboring countries gratis because we didnt know what to do with it. . I even heard that some head of state (presumably Gowon), once made a monetary donation to Hong Kong during the heydeys of the Nigerian economy. Oh God! I want to weep. Any one who's been to HK now, knows that even some of the so called western countries cannot hold a candle to it  in terms of development, and it amazes me when I see western tourists gawking at some of the architectural wonders of Hong Kong, or browsing the shops for hi tech gadgets that are overflowing from shops and stalls that you'd think they were there for free, to be picked up like pamphlets by passersby.

The only bright spot on the horizon was the Kano State governor of the time, Audu Bako, who initiated development projects that made Kano State what it is today. As far back as the tenure of Rimi, some of those projects were still being implemented from the original blue print. Elsewhere all over Nigeria with the exception of one or two states, there was virtually no  infrastructural developments to speak of. When Murtala came to power, he wanted to restructure Nigeria and get rid of corruption, unfortunately he was at loggerheads with the west and according to a conspiracy theory he was assassinated at the behest of the CIA. I have actually read a document which was part of some declassified information from the CIA archives, running riot on the internet. They were sent to me by my brother who made a conscientious effort to print the whole and mail them to me back in  the mid 1990s. (I didnt have carte blanche access to the internet back then).

OBJ as a military was also ineffectual. Back in those days, it was thought that OBJ was a man who accepted the reigns of power unwillingly, albeit maybe bcos he probably thought that the sword of Damocles was now hanging over his head, and he wasnt all that keen to part with that bodily appendage! So he quickly handed the reigns to Shagari, another weak and ineffectual leader. However what I must stress is that although both Gowon and Shagari were ineffectual, they were not corrupt personally. Ppl around them were, but they were not and consequently didnt amass the sort of wealth associated yrs later with the Abacha and IBB clans.

After Shagari, Nigeria had another chance to make good with the arrival of Buhari and Idiagbon on the scene, but unfortunately, their reign was cut short by the most villainous of Nigeria's leaders  IBB. If the charge of deliberately destroying  a segment of society - the middle class and not only the northern middle class but all of Nigeria's middle class - can be attributed to anyone, it is to IBB. The tragedy of IBB is that he is indeed an incredibly intelligent, and charismatic man. One whom if his priorities had been inclined towards the common man in Nigeria rather than his own personal gains, he would have made an incredible leader. No less so, Abacha who might not be as intelligent and charismatic as IBB, but nevertheless was dogged, tenacious and fearless. He was also surprisingly, concerned with the problems bothering Nigeria. It is on record that Abacha was the leader who stabilized the yoyoing forex and inflation rate. The exchange rate stayed at N80 to the dollar for much of his tenure and the cost of food items and other necessities also stabilized during his time, although lecturers had a hard time with him trying to improve their lot at the time. Abacha  tried to resuscitate the comatose rail transport sector and also initiated the now much remembered with nostalgia PTF program. I was listening to the BBC Hausa program 'tubali' or 'gane mani hanya'  the other day and some one was saying that in some hospital somewhere, they were still using PTF funded bedsheets on the hospital beds and he was on the verge of tears due to frustration about the worsening situation of Nigerian hospitals despite massive injections of trillions of Naira by the PDP governments into the health sector. 

Abacha's tenure was dogged with corruption, but I refuse to believe that the man was personally involved himself even if his family was. I always think of it as a twist of fate that he whose priorities were  more selfish was able to separate his family from public affairs while he who was more altuistic could not say boo to relatives meddling in politics simply becos they happened to be temporarily close to the seat of power by accident of birth. Any one remember that the then IG of police  Ibrahim Kumasi was once slapped by Mohammed Abacha? How arrogant can one get?  I had a relative who was indefinitely incarcerated on the direct orders of Mohammed Abacha, from the yr his brother died in an air crash to the year that Abacha died, and the family was stripped of its power and therefore my relative regained his freedom.

I have rambled on too much, and anyone reading this piece would wonder what on earth I am getting at. Well maybe what I am trying to say is that one cant categorically accuse the northern leadership of destroying the middle class. If it was the leadership also, then for most of the time it was the peripheral leadership not the direct leadership, because many of the northern leaders that I mentioned were blameless in terms of amassing a personal fortune especially the earliest set of leaders who are supposed to be the root cause of the demise of the northern middle class. The peripheral leaders of course are the auxilliary members of the government, who are supposed to keep the machinery of government well oiled... the ministers governors perm secs etc. Those are the ones who due to ineffectual governance by the numero unos in office, were able to destabilize the economy through bad decisions  or plain self aggrandizement, and even they were probably not aware how their sins of yesteryears would be visited upon the future generations, up until now at any rate.


Oh Jack you posed a question Islamic banking for me saying that u didnt really understand what I was trying to say.

Quoting Jack:
I'm not really sure what all this means, but are you trying to say that the prohibition against charging interest is designed to remove the risk of a financial transaction?  And that the Qur'an prohibits the assumption of financial risk by the Muslim?  I really don't think that this is what the Qur'an says, mainly because it's impossible to get rid of the risk.  No matter what financing method is used, risk is always there and someone pays for the consequences of bearing the risk.
Unquoting Jack

I am not trying to say that the prohibition against charging interest is designed to remove the risk of a financial transaction. I am trying to point out that there must be some risk attached to all business transactions in order for the element of ribah (interest) to be removed from the transaction. I hope that makes sense to you. Its actually the opposite of how you understood statement.


Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Dave_McEwan_Hill

Interesting post, Husnaa. You are probably right. The lack of a middle class in the North may well not be deliberate but the accidental by-product of a basically feudal social structure - but I would say it is also the inevitable by-product of such a system, which was appropriate in the past but outdated now in a world that needs a population largely empowered by education..

However the biggest reason for the poverty of the north is probably the neglect and mismanagement of the huge agricultural potential of the region.

I had a fair amount of contact with Audu Bako - a true visionary and a huge loss to Kano on his untimely death. He knew exactly what had to be done to release the huge potential of Kano State but much of his vision died with him.
maigemu

gogannaka

Now i am confused.
Who are the middle-class if i may ask?
Surely after suffering comes enjoyment

Nuruddeen

Quote from: HUSNAA on August 25, 2008, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: Dave_McEwan_Hill on August 25, 2008, 11:36:32 AM
I find myself broadly in agreement with Waziri on the deliberate destruction of the middle class. The social structure of the North leads the upper class to empowerer a very small proportion of the people to be their tame management agents and keeps the rest of the population down.

You see Dave, that is the crux of my contention. That is the fly in the ointment for me. Somehow I cant believe that the destruction was deliberate. I think it was the result of incredible bad and selfish leadership but not necessarily with the intent of destroying the middle class so to speak. Besides, we cant say this about the first northern leaders; ppl like Sardauna and Tafawa Balewa who were the epitome of northern aristocracy and yet were true northern patriots and selfless to boot. It was after the death of these stalwarts that we began to get leaders without vision. Honestly, what ever anyone will tell me about the leadership of Yakubu Gowon, I'd say that he was weak and had no direction. Infact it was a tragedy that he was chosen to lead. Imagine he was the one who was saying at the time of his tenure that Nigeria had so much money and didnt know what to do with it. Can you beat that? Meanwhile, there are the poor to educate (even though education was free then), roads to be built, transport infrastructures to sustain, maintain and improve. What he did was dish out money to neighboring countries gratis because we didnt know what to do with it. . I even heard that some head of state (presumably Gowon), once made a monetary donation to Hong Kong during the heydeys of the Nigerian economy. Oh God! I want to weep. Any one who's been to HK now, knows that even some of the so called western countries cannot hold a candle to it  in terms of development, and it amazes me when I see western tourists gawking at some of the architectural wonders of Hong Kong, or browsing the shops for hi tech gadgets that are overflowing from shops and stalls that you'd think they were there for free, to be picked up like pamphlets by passersby.

The only bright spot on the horizon was the Kano State governor of the time, Audu Bako, who initiated development projects that made Kano State what it is today. As far back as the tenure of Rimi, some of those projects were still being implemented from the original blue print. Elsewhere all over Nigeria with the exception of one or two states, there was virtually no  infrastructural developments to speak of. When Murtala came to power, he wanted to restructure Nigeria and get rid of corruption, unfortunately he was at loggerheads with the west and according to a conspiracy theory he was assassinated at the behest of the CIA. I have actually read a document which was part of some declassified information from the CIA archives, running riot on the internet. They were sent to me by my brother who made a conscientious effort to print the whole and mail them to me back in  the mid 1990s. (I didnt have carte blanche access to the internet back then).

OBJ as a military was also ineffectual. Back in those days, it was thought that OBJ was a man who accepted the reigns of power unwillingly, albeit maybe bcos he probably thought that the sword of Damocles was now hanging over his head, and he wasnt all that keen to part with that bodily appendage! So he quickly handed the reigns to Shagari, another weak and ineffectual leader. However what I must stress is that although both Gowon and Shagari were ineffectual, they were not corrupt personally. Ppl around them were, but they were not and consequently didnt amass the sort of wealth associated yrs later with the Abacha and IBB clans.

After Shagari, Nigeria had another chance to make good with the arrival of Buhari and Idiagbon on the scene, but unfortunately, their reign was cut short by the most villainous of Nigeria's leaders  IBB. If the charge of deliberately destroying  a segment of society - the middle class and not only the northern middle class but all of Nigeria's middle class - can be attributed to anyone, it is to IBB. The tragedy of IBB is that he is indeed an incredibly intelligent, and charismatic man. One whom if his priorities had been inclined towards the common man in Nigeria rather than his own personal gains, he would have made an incredible leader. No less so, Abacha who might not be as intelligent and charismatic as IBB, but nevertheless was dogged, tenacious and fearless. He was also surprisingly, concerned with the problems bothering Nigeria. It is on record that Abacha was the leader who stabilized the yoyoing forex and inflation rate. The exchange rate stayed at N80 to the dollar for much of his tenure and the cost of food items and other necessities also stabilized during his time, although lecturers had a hard time with him trying to improve their lot at the time. Abacha  tried to resuscitate the comatose rail transport sector and also initiated the now much remembered with nostalgia PTF program. I was listening to the BBC Hausa program 'tubali' or 'gane mani hanya'  the other day and some one was saying that in some hospital somewhere, they were still using PTF funded bedsheets on the hospital beds and he was on the verge of tears due to frustration about the worsening situation of Nigerian hospitals despite massive injections of trillions of Naira by the PDP governments into the health sector. 

Abacha's tenure was dogged with corruption, but I refuse to believe that the man was personally involved himself even if his family was. I always think of it as a twist of fate that he whose priorities were  more selfish was able to separate his family from public affairs while he who was more altuistic could not say boo to relatives meddling in politics simply becos they happened to be temporarily close to the seat of power by accident of birth. Any one remember that the then IG of police  Ibrahim Kumasi was once slapped by Mohammed Abacha? How arrogant can one get?  I had a relative who was indefinitely incarcerated on the direct orders of Mohammed Abacha, from the yr his brother died in an air crash to the year that Abacha died, and the family was stripped of its power and therefore my relative regained his freedom.

I have rambled on too much, and anyone reading this piece would wonder what on earth I am getting at. Well maybe what I am trying to say is that one cant categorically accuse the northern leadership of destroying the middle class. If it was the leadership also, then for most of the time it was the peripheral leadership not the direct leadership, because many of the northern leaders that I mentioned were blameless in terms of amassing a personal fortune especially the earliest set of leaders who are supposed to be the root cause of the demise of the northern middle class. The peripheral leaders of course are the auxilliary members of the government, who are supposed to keep the machinery of government well oiled... the ministers governors perm secs etc. Those are the ones who due to ineffectual governance by the numero unos in office, were able to destabilize the economy through bad decisions  or plain self aggrandizement, and even they were probably not aware how their sins of yesteryears would be visited upon the future generations, up until now at any rate.


Oh Jack you posed a question Islamic banking for me saying that u didnt really understand what I was trying to say.

Quoting Jack:
I'm not really sure what all this means, but are you trying to say that the prohibition against charging interest is designed to remove the risk of a financial transaction?  And that the Qur'an prohibits the assumption of financial risk by the Muslim?  I really don't think that this is what the Qur'an says, mainly because it's impossible to get rid of the risk.  No matter what financing method is used, risk is always there and someone pays for the consequences of bearing the risk.
Unquoting Jack

I am not trying to say that the prohibition against charging interest is designed to remove the risk of a financial transaction. I am trying to point out that there must be some risk attached to all business transactions in order for the element of ribah (interest) to be removed from the transaction. I hope that makes sense to you. Its actually the opposite of how you understood statement.




My dear Husnaa,

I think I stand by what I said i.e. some of us do not understand what Ibrahim Waziri wrote. People like you have even derailed from the issue under discussion. Instead of you to concentrate on the issue of poverty and the way forward, you have succeeded in bamboozling us with grammar about leadership problem of Nigeria, which every Tom, Dick and Harry knows. You took lengthy time writing on an issue that has no direct bearing with the matter at issue. I have said it inter lia that there are certain factors,indices and indicators that cause and aggravate poverty in Northern Nigeria. The leadership that you have been talking about is just one out of many factors that cause poverty in our society.

If for instance, Ibrahim's piece was on "Leadership and Governance in Nigeria", then you have every right to delve into it with magnanimity. Or had it been the topic read " Democracy and Governance in the North: The Pros and Cons", you can also write amply on the matter. But what I realised here at Kanoonline some people are good at discussing  issues that they think can write and derive pleasure. Some write for the sake of writing i.e without substance. Instead of us to see Husnaa telling us about the social angles of poverty problems that hav to do with unemployment, poor parental care and upbringing, bad orientation, and matrimonial  negligence in our homes that made the North a centre of national discussion, you were busy making unnecessary taciturnity about leadership. Mind you, we are not aying the leadership is not part of the problem, but what do you think is the solution now? When I say our people must by all means device a means of curtailing unprecedented marriages that usually do not last, I mean it Husnaa. And I still reiterate that there is supposed to be a complete change in our social policy, principle and procedure that shoudl guide our marital life. We need to have at least minimum level of respect and civility to the Sunnah of our beloved prophet. What good of a marriage if one cannot sustain it for Allah's sake my dear? I am not one of those people that are opposed to the institution of marriage.

Let me come down to your level a bit my dear Husnaa. For example, what is happening in Northern Nigeria to day is, you will see a Northerner who doesnt have three square meals in a day, but once he gets a small opprtunity, instead of improving his life by changing it for the better, he adds  wife. And this is common amongst the low income groups of Northern Nigeria. The middle class that you were busy making noise about are no exception i.e ven if they still exist. I quite agree with you that there is no middle class in Nigeria today. To me, what we have are the "HAVES" and the "HAVE-NOTS". But this is a subject of another day. I remain loyal my dear Husnaa.
o try and fail is atleast to learn. That will save one the inestimable loss of what might have been (positive or negative).

Dave_McEwan_Hill

This is a very interesting and productive debate developing.
I have conceded that the destruction of the "middle class is probably accidental rather than deliberate but is the inevitable product of a system which confers too much unquestioned power onto those at the top.

The big question is how to turn the North around and an attitudinal as well as practical shift is probably required.
maigemu

Nuruddeen

Quote from: Dave_McEwan_Hill on August 28, 2008, 06:26:09 PM
This is a very interesting and productive debate developing.
I have conceded that the destruction of the "middle class is probably accidental rather than deliberate but is the inevitable product of a system which confers too much unquestioned power onto those at the top.

The big question is how to turn the North around and an attitudinal as well as practical shift is probably required.

Yes! Dave. The question is what do we do now since damage has been done. We just can't afford to continue delving into the political angle of the problem as Husnaa did. We know the leadership has problem and contributed negatively to the masses of the North. But the issue here is: LET US TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMIC AS WELL AS THE SOCIAL ANGLES OF THE PROBLEM, WHICH IS WHAT IN MY VIEW THE INITIATOR OF THE THREAD(WAZIRI) MEANS.
o try and fail is atleast to learn. That will save one the inestimable loss of what might have been (positive or negative).

HUSNAA

#38
Quote from: Nuruddeen on August 28, 2008, 06:11:36 PM


My dear Husnaa,

I think I stand by what I said i.e. some of us do not understand what Ibrahim Waziri wrote. People like you have even derailed from the issue under discussion. Instead of you to concentrate on the issue of poverty and the way forward, you have succeeded in bamboozling us with grammar about leadership problem of Nigeria, which every Tom, Dick and Harry knows. You took lengthy time writing on an issue that has no direct bearing with the matter at issue. I have said it inter lia that there are certain factors,indices and indicators that cause and aggravate poverty in Northern Nigeria. The leadership that you have been talking about is just one out of many factors that cause poverty in our society.

If for instance, Ibrahim's piece was on "Leadership and Governance in Nigeria", then you have every right to delve into it with magnanimity. Or had it been the topic read " Democracy and Governance in the North: The Pros and Cons", you can also write amply on the matter. But what I realised here at Kanoonline some people are good at discussing  issues that they think can write and derive pleasure. Some write for the sake of writing i.e without substance. Instead of us to see Husnaa telling us about the social angles of poverty problems that hav to do with unemployment, poor parental care and upbringing, bad orientation, and matrimonial  negligence in our homes that made the North a centre of national discussion, you were busy making unnecessary taciturnity about leadership. Mind you, we are not aying the leadership is not part of the problem, but what do you think is the solution now? When I say our people must by all means device a means of curtailing unprecedented marriages that usually do not last, I mean it Husnaa. And I still reiterate that there is supposed to be a complete change in our social policy, principle and procedure that shoudl guide our marital life. We need to have at least minimum level of respect and civility to the Sunnah of our beloved prophet. What good of a marriage if one cannot sustain it for Allah's sake my dear? I am not one of those people that are opposed to the institution of marriage.

Let me come down to your level a bit my dear Husnaa. For example, what is happening in Northern Nigeria to day is, you will see a Northerner who doesnt have three square meals in a day, but once he gets a small opprtunity, instead of improving his life by changing it for the better, he adds  wife. And this is common amongst the low income groups of Northern Nigeria. The middle class that you were busy making noise about are no exception i.e ven if they still exist. I quite agree with you that there is no middle class in Nigeria today. To me, what we have are the "HAVES" and the "HAVE-NOTS". But this is a subject of another day. I remain loyal my dear Husnaa.


Lol I seem to have ruffled someone's feathers...
I doubt that I have bamboozled anyone except you, seeing that the one person whom you deemed to have understood what Waziri's post was all about seemed to have found  my post not only interesting, but was inclined to agree with my line of argument.

if u dont like my style of writing, you either get used to it or ignore my posts. Up to you. I was taught to make writing an article or topic interesting instead of making the reader feel as if he/she is trying to digest sawdust.  As a journalist, I'm sure u must be aware of that.

PS. The ramifications of Waziri's topic are many. There are many facets to it, not just from what u consider we should look at it. I am a firm believer in analyzing the larger picture instead of the immediate and obvious. What is more, the obvious solutions are good governance education and resuscitating agricultural production in the north as Dave keeps reminding us.  The act of men diverting funds to get married can be thought of as a social malaise, and as far as I am concerned has little to do with the cause of, but a great deal to do with social effects of poverty. Obviously an educated man wont behave in that fashion as we all know. So educate the masses and see if u dont bring about a revolution.

PPS. I remain loyal also (whatever that is for)
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

gogannaka

Can someone please answer my question as to the definition or example of the Northern middle class?
To me i see alot of the middle class.
Surely after suffering comes enjoyment

Dave_McEwan_Hill

It's hard to give precise definition of the middle class in any society. It tends to be a well educated and property owning class holding responsible positions in middle and upper management in public or private enterprises and including the professional classes of doctors, teachers amd lawyers etc but also local and national government workers, business people and company owners.
It is probably easier to say what it is not. It does not include royalty, nobility and traditional rulers and clergymen and religious leaders at one end or at the other end  the uneducated, the unemployed, manual workers, agricultural labourers, market traders or labourers, many people living in rural areas in the developing nations, beggars etc.
In UK for instance probably 40 - 50% of the population would consider themselves middle class. In Nigeria would 10% be a more accurate assessment? 
maigemu

Nuruddeen

Lol I seem to have ruffled someone's feathers...
I doubt that I have bamboozled anyone except you, seeing that the one person whom you deemed to have understood what Waziri's post was all about seemed to have found  my post not only interesting, but was inclined to agree with my line of argument.

if u dont like my style of writing, you either get used to it or ignore my posts. Up to you. I was taught to make writing an article or topic interesting instead of making the reader feel as if he/she is trying to digest sawdust.  As a journalist, I'm sure u must be aware of that.

PS. The ramifications of Waziri's topic are many. There are many facets to it, not just from what u consider we should look at it. I am a firm believer in analyzing the larger picture instead of the immediate and obvious. What is more, the obvious solutions are good governance education and resuscitating agricultural production in the north as Dave keeps reminding us.  The act of men diverting funds to get married can be thought of as a social malaise, and as far as I am concerned has little to do with the cause of, but a great deal to do with social effects of poverty. Obviously an educated man wont behave in that fashion as we all know. So educate the masses and see if u dont bring about a revolution.

PPS. I remain loyal also (whatever that is for)
[/quote]

Not really my dear Husnaa. I, of course can't say that I do not like your writing(s), but it's just that most of the time you waste precious moments digressing on issues that are unnecessary. So generally I get tired of your stuff, especially when you derail from  issues that are nonetheless important to the subject(s) under discussion.

However, I am deeply elated for saying that
[/b] "...seemed to have found  my post not only interesting, but was inclined to agree with my line of argument".

Yeah my dear. We sometimes agree to disagree. That's the beauty in debate. If you don't know: arguments, criticisms, comments and observations are never a threat to anyone i.e if done on constructive bases. One thing that I enjoy throughout your lengthy but empty assertions are mostly the political than your apolitical school of thought. I therefore implore you to kindly stick to the subject matter whenever discussing matters of regional importance. To me, making elaborate and cheap statements usually  make someone lose interest. I remain your humble friend Nura.
o try and fail is atleast to learn. That will save one the inestimable loss of what might have been (positive or negative).

gogannaka

Thank you Dave for the definition.
From it i can say that the middle class are not eliminated in the north.
Surely after suffering comes enjoyment

HUSNAA

Quote from: gogannaka on September 03, 2008, 08:40:48 AM
Thank you Dave for the definition.
From it i can say that the middle class are not eliminated in the north.

The key to a middle class existence  is economic, GGNK. The professions that make up a middle class society: doctors lawyers teachers for example, go hand in hand with excellent remunerations and a good earning power, that enables u to live in the middle class societal zone. If you dont have that economic power, you can call yrself middle class but you wont be living the middle class life even if u are employed as a doctor, or lecturer or teacher or whatever other profession that should put you in that category.
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Nuruddeen

The key to a middle class existence  is economic, GGNK. The professions that make up a middle class society: doctors lawyers teachers for example, go hand in hand with excellent remunerations and a good earning power, that enables u to live in the middle class societal zone. If you dont have that economic power, you can call yrself middle class but you wont be living the middle class life even if u are employed as a doctor, or lecturer or teacher or whatever other profession that should put you in that category.
[/quote]


What of those that are not professionally working? Going by your own defintion, are they not amongst the middle class? Do you mean one has to get "excellent remuneration" for him/her to be a middle class citizen? What of those that live in the village but have legal tender and are by no means poor? This definition of middle class I think has to be revisited my dear. But I don't know what parameter or measure you used in arriving at your own definition of a middle class.

Now back to the subject under discussion: POVERTY in the north.

Husnaa, what I had wanted you to understand since is this

1. When Waziri brought up his topic, I had expected cogent explanation that will adress the matter in its entirety.

For instance, when Soludo earnestly remarked on the poverty stricken north, ppl were vehemently accusing him, but I think its uncalled for.

When I see you accusing leadership, I was not happy with your own analysis based on the following reasons:

1. The poverty in the north that we are talking about, and apportioning blames to leaders, who are the longest serving presidents in Nigeria? Are they not northerners? What stopped them from salvaging the region from its current status?

2. In the whole country, education in the north is the cheapest compared to other parts of the country, but why is it that the North has the lowest enrollments?

3. If you compare northern states with their southern counterparts, we are opprtuned to get scholarships that are virtually not obtainable in the southern states. But even at that, we don't want to go to school.


4. We have extended families that we don't care about their welfare. We marry many wives and keep producing children that we can't even afford for their upbringing.

5. We always blame government and leadership, but do we expect government to do everything for us? Can't we engage ourselves in entrepreneurial ventures, apprenticeship and vocational training(s) that we can rely on?

Please Husnaa, tell me how many well-to-do northerners built homes for the poor and elderly as an assistance? How many rich northerners engage, assist and/or finance youth empowerment projects? I  am talking of the Dangotes, Dantatas, Rabius and co. Look, ppl like Dangote, instaed of basing his companies in the north, most of them are in the south, and the sole beneficiaries are southerners.

So the north should really find its predicament in its own pple. The people of the north i.e Husnaa, Jibo Nura, Waziri-the poverty analytical guru(laughs), Gagannaka, Dan Barno and co are the real problems of the north. Why because they don't have what a Hausa man say: Kishi da zuciyar su taimaka wa mutanensu su. Sai dai su taimakawa kan su da 'ya 'yan su da jikokin su.

May God help us. Ma'assalam
o try and fail is atleast to learn. That will save one the inestimable loss of what might have been (positive or negative).