I need to know if it is allowed for a Muslim woman to marry a non Muslim man. I ask because there is certain Malian girl (muslim) that has been seeking marriage to a guy that is clearly not a Muslim. She knows this guy is not Muslim, her parents know, but that does not seem to matter. So I have asked this same question of other African Muslims, and it seems in countries like Ivory Coast, Senegal, Mali, etc, inter-marriage between faiths is not such a big deal, as such relationships are common.
Why is this different however with Nigerian Muslims especially the ones from the north? Is it a taboo, and if it is, what is the problem with other African Muslims that are not following this injuction?
Since I have been accused of not understanding anything in Islam, I am hoping someone better understanding in this area can shed some light. I ask very humbly and with respect. There are no motives behind my asking. Maybe the response will help me understand why the young lady interested in marrying the unbeliever is so determined and unrelenting.
Thanks.
Ete, issues about religion are very fragile, i want to appeal to you to please forget about this topic, because this topic is purely based on BELIEF. You can not change the belief of other people, and if you try to, they might see you as an enemy to them.
We might see a Hindu worshipper in a different eye glasses, and he will also be looking at us in a different eye-glasses, we wont understand each other.
Ete talk about something social, political.
Mine is only an advice: Be guided please.
Yes Islam does not permit muslim ladies to marry non muslims, and I distinctly remember discussing this issue in some thread somewhere and I was directing the response to you when u were Ete, instead of the newEte. So i suggest, u hunt the thread down and reread it. You even commented afterwards I think.
As for the young lady, if she is so determined and unrelenting, then I am sure she will go ahead and marry him. Who is to stop her except herself?
Husnaa you forgot to add "love can move mountains".
On d other hand Ete, men r allowed 2 marry women with dissimilar religious credence from them. And there are ethical reasons under Islamic culture surrounding the issue of why a muslim woman cannot wed any man who practices another faith.
Like Eve said: "Love is Blind" I guess it justifies the Malian girls actions
Quote from: NewEte on January 18, 2007, 08:34:12 PMShe knows this guy is not Muslim, her parents know, but that does not seem to matter. So I have asked this same question of other African Muslims, and it seems in countries like Ivory Coast, Senegal, Mali, etc, inter-marriage between faiths is not such a big deal, as such relationships are common.
Why is this different however with Nigerian Muslims especially the ones from the north? Is it a taboo, and if it is, what is the problem with other African Muslims that are not following this injuction? Thanks.
Faith aint deep!!!! Culture alters religion sometimes!!!! Limited religious awareness!!! Selfish interest!!! Comtemporary ideas!!! I dont care/cant be bothered attitudes!!!..........and many more are causative factors that changes some people's religious convictions.
And amid some of these reasons, Bryan Adams also said: Everything I do, I do it 4 love........that alone
singles out her act. I dont think we should sink deep for reasons 2 justify her lack of commitment to religion or as to why some Africans couldnt care less in the midst of those who stick to rules. Obvious reason: she did it our of sheer love! What people could do 4 love!!.....Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww cute!!!
Ete don't you know some muslims are just muslims by name not by heart?
they do nothing islamic....... Such people can do anything answering muslim name.
Just like the none practicing christian...............
You can find such muslims in nigeria too especially in the south.
Islam is a religion not individuality mr ete.
Oh! did I mention.........how it sickens me when Geography is used to demarcate religious strengths & weaknesses amongst people.
Am back!!!!!
Thank you to ummita and others that responded candidly to these question. To those that cannnot answer a simple question but want to take it to another dimension, I say shame on you. Anyway, thanks again to Ummita, myself, Dan Borno, and alkanawi. Now, I have better understanding. I see that Mali girl is actually a good woman with true love in her heart. The kind of love that conquers all. I wonder what kind of love exist in this room sef! shikena! >:(
I dont think love in itself is necessarily a positive value.to use a worn out cliche(itself a worn out cliche) "love is blind" meaning it doesnt let you make an objective assessment of the object/subject.For example an alcoholics' love for his drink,a junkie's love for his drug,a racist's love for his race,etc.On the flipside,you might not like something or even hate it but that is what is better for you,for example most sick people dislike taking their medicine and food,and generally kids dont like going to school or reading their books but that is better for them.
Quote from: NewEte on January 19, 2007, 03:49:12 PM
Thank you to ummita and others that responded candidly to these question. To those that cannnot answer a simple question but want to take it to another dimension, I say shame on you. Anyway, thanks again to Ummita, myself, Dan Borno, and alkanawi. Now, I have better understanding. I see that Mali girl is actually a good woman with true love in her heart. The kind of love that conquers all. I wonder what kind of love exist in this room sef! shikena! >:(
Lol Ete, you feel too deeply. Me thinks the Malian girl issue is closer to yr heart than u'd like to own up ;D.. What say you? eh?? Fess up!!! :D
No Husnaa, I was just trying to understand some stuff. I think I do now.
Quote from: alkanawi on January 18, 2007, 10:38:13 PM
Husnaa you forgot to add "love can move mountains".
I havent seen a single mountain it has moved... so far ;D..... so I am skeptical.
Quote from: Ummita on January 18, 2007, 10:38:13 PM
Love is blind
Sometimes, but other times, love nurtures itself on what it cant have, so it grows like a cancerous tumor.
Quote from: Ummita on January 18, 2007, 10:38:13 PMAnd amid some of these reasons, Bryan Adams also said: Everything I do, I do it 4 love........that alone singles out her act.
For a little while only. When those rose colored lenses that filter out reality, get scratched, she'll see his warts farts and human frailty. If she can still want him despite all, then... that would be the test of true love. ;)
Quote from: NewEte on January 18, 2007, 10:38:13 PMNo Husnaa, I was just trying to understand some stuff. I think I do now.
So exactly what stuff did u understand? if I may ask,... apart from love conquers all?
Left to me, we have come to the end of this topic, both for and against have fully taken stand and understood each other.
OK Brothers and Sisters post another topic.
I believe that our teachings are clear on this point. It is not allowed for a muslimeena to marry a non muslim. However - if he sees fit to convert then it's fine. On the other hand Muslim males may marry from the 'ahl kitabeen' the people of the book, namely Christians and Jews.
Mai China, I am just curious about something here. You said that Muslim women cannot marry non Muslim men, but that Muslim men however are free to marry non Muslim women. Why is that? This does not seem like a fair deal. Is this like Allah's commandment or is this man's law?
Quote from: Dan-Borno on January 18, 2007, 08:48:50 PM
Ete, issues about religion are very fragile, i want to appeal to you to please forget about this topic, because this topic is purely based on BELIEF. You can not change the belief of other people, and if you try to, they might see you as an enemy to them.
We might see a Hindu worshipper in a different eye glasses, and he will also be looking at us in a different eye-glasses, we wont understand each other.
Ete talk about something social, political.
Mine is only an advice: Be guided please.
Ete, reference above please.
This is purely a religious commandment, and you dont ask why is it so? or it is unjust or whatever. If you are a Muslim, you must pray 5 times obligatory prayer and you dont say why 5?
As a Christian, you are to believe that Jesus Christ (May the Blessings of Allah be upon him) died for our sins. You dont ask question as to why must he die for our sins.
That is what is called religious belief - and nothing more.
If you dont understand this, please lets forget this topic, you are good in politics.
Well said Dan-Barno. You are doing great with this man Ete. Continue on guiding his way.
And to you Ete, why are you so voracious asking such questions? This is not what is suppose to be done, and more especially you are not Muslim. Your feeling towards this religion is not good, just bad and negative. Please, desist such uncanny habits. Respect others belief.
If you again feel the content you were expressing in the preceded post (all in this thread) you have not come to a haven. There are nowadays thousands of Sites all about Islamic fundementals. Go there and learn a lot, but not here!
I was two days away. Had it been I'm around I'll have said lots to you Ete 'cuz ....
Dan Borno, I really do not appreciate your attitude on this issue. I asked a question out of curiosity, but your response is an attempt to shut me up and kill the discourse. Why is that? Sorry, maybe you do not question anything, but I do. I suppose that's that makes us different, but there isn't anything to be mad about. I've been told that I wouldn't understand. Well, I am simply trying to understand, but you seem so eager to end this discussion as if this something so detestable about it. How is someone expected to learn anything if simple question is a no go area?
Then out of the blue Mushin shows up and begins blabbing as usual, and talking about being away for two day. Only two days mushin? Why not go for 2 months. You say respect others belief, where is the disrespect here? Asking a normal question is now considered disrespect? You need to check yourself mushin. If you do not know the answer to someting, simply say you do not know, and there is no shame in that. But don't you ever, EVER, come here and falsely accuse me falsely!
QuoteThis is purely a religious commandment, and you dont ask why is it so? or it is unjust or whatever. If you are a Muslim, you must pray 5 times obligatory prayer and you dont say why 5?
As a Christian, you are to believe that Jesus Christ (May the Blessings of Allah be upon him) died for our sins. You dont ask question as to why must he die for our sins.
That is what is called religious belief - and nothing more.
I humbly beg to differ with you. It is very, VERY important to ask the question 'why'; to seek to understand the purpose behind God's commands. Religion cannot be mere robotic, brainless subservience. Does God give commands just for the sake of it? Does He want us running around like slaves doing his bidding thoughtlessly? If He loves us, then he must have a purpose for instructing us. And if so, we ought to try to discover that purpose, shouldn't we? When we do that through prayer and studying the Scriptures, we naturally grow to know and love Him more IMHO. And as we know and love Him more, obedience follows more readily. It is always easier to obey someone when you know his intents and objectives.
Let me ask you a simple question Dan Borno. Suppose one day you found out that some guy you've never even heard of before - a total stranger - died for your sake. Wouldn't you ask yourself why that happened? Wouldn't you be filled with wonder? If you aren't, what does that say about you? So then, I categorically state to you that every Christian ought to know why Jesus had to die on the cross for our sins. If he doesn't, then frankly he is yet to fully understand and value the message of Christ, he is yet to even scratch the surface of God's love for him, and I daresay he is yet to know and love God like he should, in return - like all Christians are commanded to do.
Now as humans we cannot always understand God's plans. But if we will not even try, then perhaps we do not yet really know God.
Now this question Ete has asked is rather interesting and I think you guys (Dan Borno and Muhsin) will do well to address rather than trying to shut him up. I have followed this thread from the beginnning and Ete has been very respectful in his posts, so I see no reason why the discussion cannot continue in such fashion. Dan Borno I find your attitude curious. Is there something about this discussion that makes you uncomfortable?
As for you Muhsin, you have barged into this thread without reading its contents. Obviously Ete's reputation goes ahead of him but for goodness sake read the thread before throwing wild accusations around. As it is, you stand the risk of being disrespectful yourself. Why must Ete go to other sites to find knowledge? Why can't he come to you? Or is this another way of saying you don't know?
I myself would like to know the answer to Ete's question, so I will repeat it:
QuoteYou said that Muslim women cannot marry non Muslim men, but that Muslim men however are free to marry non Muslim women. Why is that?
Quote from: lionger on January 24, 2007, 04:17:08 PM
I myself would like to know the answer to Ete's question, so I will repeat it:
QuoteYou said that Muslim women cannot marry non Muslim men, but that Muslim men however are free to marry non Muslim women. Why is that?
Lionger, I tried to answer that question in another thread "my parents are kafr". Of course this is my understanding of the reason behind why muslim women shouldnt marry non muslim men. Others more learned can shed more light.
Quote from: Husnaa on January 24, 2007, 04:17:08 PM
Let me clarify for you why muslims should marry muslims. It is permissible for a muslim man to marry a christian woman or a jewish woman, however it is not permissible for a muslim woman to marry a christian or a jewish man. (Muslims men or women cannot marry mushriks that is those who worship idols. Idol worshippers include Buddhists Hindus Shintoists Zoroastrians and the like). Now the reason why women cannot marry non muslims is that for the most part, women are under the influence of their husbands rather than the other way round, especially if he is the sole breadwinner in the family. How he carries on his private and public affairs will form a pattern from which his offspring will derive their lessons of life. Islam strictly speaking does not recognize a secular lifestyle. Everything you do in your life is in effect an act of worship, (that includes sleeping eating and other mundane everyday things and you get a reward for doing them in so far as you are within the legal boundaries).
Every child born to its parents is a trust given by God and of which He will question you about the way you handled that trust on the day of ressurection. Obviously, the offspring of a muslim man with a non muslim woman have a 100% chance of turning out as muslims if the man is a true and consciensious muslim and not a cultural muslim like salman rushdie. If the man is not a muslim while the woman is a muslim, the man will be ignorant of the duties incumbent upon a muslim man with regards to his offspring, and his wife cannot effectively carryout those parts of the duties that are exclusively the husband's, like taking the kids to the mosque, and praying congregational prayers. Also a non muslim man's perception of a lot of things will run contrary to what is acceptable in Islam. For example, he will likely drink alcohol, he will see no harm in eating pork or gambling. He wont enforce the learning of the Qur'an on the kids, and because he is not a believer in Islam, the children will experience a lot of contradictions with regards to parental authority. The mother may want the kids to be islamic while the father may not care whether they are or not. He may not object to their being muslims, but he certainly wont encourage them. The likelihood of the children tilting more towards their father's style of life is higher than the much more ascetic lifestyle that Islam advocates for.
If a muslim knows that he/she is accountable to God for the way his/her children are brought up, then I think there is no doubt that muslim women at least will try and make sure that they marry someone who can help them bring up their children in the way Islam approves of and not contrary to it
Quote from: lionger on January 24, 2007, 04:17:08 PM
I myself would like to know the answer to Ete's question, so I will repeat it:
Lionger, how far? did Husna answer your question or !
Thanks Lionger for pointing out the importance of asking questions. Also thanks Husnna for your detailed explanation above. At least I have an idea behind what may have prompted this commandment. I wonder why Dan Borno and Mushin couldn't explain it this way and I would have understood.
In a way I suppose, it is similar to some Jewish commandments where the Jews were not encouraged to take wives from some sorrounding tribes. If one asks why that order was given, one would realize that it was because the Israelites were very fickle and the minute they associated with other idol worshipping tribes, they too followed suit, and God knew this.
Anyway, thanks for your explanation.
Ah yes, Husnaa, I remember reading this post of yours a while back. However it does bring up an issue: I noticed here that you said
QuoteIslam strictly speaking does not recognize a secular lifestyle. Everything you do in your life is in effect an act of worship, (that includes sleeping eating and other mundane everyday things ...)
However, on the Saddam thread in the Islamic forum you said
QuoteYou must remember that the purpose of man on this earth is to know and worship Allah. That is his primary purpose of beign created. Everything else he does is secondary to that.
If everything we do to the tiniest detail is an act of worship, then how there be things we do that are 'secondary' to that? Seems like a contradiction to me.
:-\
I will explain later... too sleepy now.
Quote from: NewEte on January 24, 2007, 02:26:49 PM
Dan Borno, I really do not appreciate your attitude on this issue.
I am sorry Malam Sabo Ete, i dont mean to upset u, lets appreciate each other please.