Author Topic: what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?  (Read 5495 times)

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Offline SAAHIB 92

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« on: September 17, 2004, 01:39:07 PM »
Terrorism doesn't serve Islam

I was just horrified when I saw on the news that another terror  and murderous act was taking place at children school in russia.i quickly said Oh, not again, and not in the so-called name of Islam. alas!!

 
I want to say for myself, and the majority of the Muslims around the world that we condemn this act of senseless violence and repudiate all those who believe such murderous behavior benefits the faith of Islam or the Muslim people.

Those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam.

We repudiate and disassociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and unIslamic acts.in the name of (muslim brigade) We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

"wala taziru waziratun ukhra"





[/i][/b]
Radina billahi Rabban,
 Wa bil Islami Dinan,
 Wa bi Muhammadin Nabiyya!"

  ABBAS A YAKASAI

Offline alhaji_aminu

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2004, 04:37:08 PM »
salam

SAAHIB I couldn't agree more....

The guilt of the Russian Children was that they are non Muslim Kids. Period.

Offline lionger

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2004, 02:56:10 PM »
I,

I'm not a muslim, but did u read this part of saahib's post b4 you responded?

Quote
No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam.


I do see your point, that the Chechen crisis and the miserable plight of Chechnya under the Russians has gone largely ignored by the West until this dastardly act of inhumanity. I guess that is the only slightly positive thing that can come out of this. Unfortunately Chechnya has never helped its cause in the international arena with such actions (least of all among the Russian ppl); however, its about time we stopped turning a blind eye to Russia's handling of the Chechen crisis.

Offline SAAHIB 92

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2004, 09:06:04 AM »
salam, MYDUDU, I

I was impressed but not suprissed,cos' am  glad to respond your statement with quetion this way.OF COURSE U CAN DISAGREE THAT'S VERY NICE,but does islam guarranty killing a soul without legal cause ?  i knew quetly you are aware with heavy reprimand awaiting those who killed,maimed,or cause terror unto fellow brother be it muslim or non.

our religion which was rooted from prophets (ibrahim,musa,above all muhammad saw) will not agree with the notion  of marciless killing of women,children,old ppl. but those self acclaimed islamic brigade committ all those baldadash in the name of islam. absolutely this is contrary to islam and prophet teachings.

ma'assalam
Radina billahi Rabban,
 Wa bil Islami Dinan,
 Wa bi Muhammadin Nabiyya!"

  ABBAS A YAKASAI

Offline _Waziri_

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2004, 04:56:59 PM »
Now lets look at what happened up there more closely for Allah says in the Qur'an n Suratul Hujurat verse 6 saying:

O you who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth (verify the claims) that you may not harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what you have done.

I will rely here on BBC Hausa service to be analytic.

BBC said that these Muslims terrorists mounted a siege on a school and held women and children as hostages.

Immediate Response: Why on God’s earth would these Muslims do that? I asked my self!

BBC said it was because they wanted some of their leaders, caught and detained by the (unjust) Russian Government to be released.

Immediate Response: I know Chechens want their independence they certainly have a good bargaining point in that action. Russia will then release them and they too will release the women and children. It is really a good strategy they really stand to win.

BBC said they (The so-called terrorists) held the hostages for three days no food, nothing; the people are even drinking their urine. And the government ordered for bunch of armies to circle the whole area and make sure nobody escaped.

Immeadiate Response: Ayya! These Russian leaders are not good. Since you know these subjects are dear to you, you live and die for them and now they are in danger why not just attend to the demands of the “terrorists” in order to free your ppl?

BBC submitted that after 3 days the Russian soldiers heard something cracking with a very loud noise from the inner side of the area and therefore bulldozed their ways into the building before an exchange of ammunition would begin between them and the “terrorists”, the Russian soldiers killed some people of their own. Some of the terrorists were caught some died and some escaped. But still BBC said people in the town were optimistic that there was no any loud voice from the area. It was only Russian soldiers who felt it better to make their ways in.

The Analysis:

From the account of what happened from the BBC and other Western Media Outfits who also maintained that the Muslims were terrorists. If we look carefully we will see that those Muslims were not terrorists, they did not wish to harm the women and the children. We will also be able to see the Muslims were only FREEDOM FIGHTERS who only wanted to get a bargain that would guarantee the release of their leaders and liberate their people from the bondage of slavery. Because if really the Russian government cannot see a reason of attending to the wishes of a “merciless terrorists” who keep a good number of their children and women hostages how can the Russian government be good and fair to the Chechens? Can’t you see that these Muslim “terrorists” were only heroes trying to salvage their people?

The mistake on the part of the Muslim “terrorists” was only their overestimation of the good sense of responsibility of the Russian government. They thought the Russians were as human as they were that they could forfeit everything of their belonging in order to save the lives of their people. No, the terrorists were wrong to have assumed the Russians see value in life as they see.

Now Saahib 92, before you proceed, you should please give me a good analysis of what you believe happened there before you proceed with dissociating your self from those Muslims believing they really were terrorists. You should have in mind the above verse when coming up with a point please.

Offline SAAHIB 92

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2004, 11:21:39 AM »
I,WAZIRI, ASSALAM

.....what is  the big deal....very funny ai'nt you? anyway the big deal here was the act of transgression while the main concern was the killing of innocent soul.imaging they are harmful enough, does islam certify attack without warning if yes shed light and if not why had they be punished with fire :?:  can you vividly recall the prophet (saw)' if you want kill put mercy on your killing' this refering to animal. and then what of a young harmless,defenceless,innocent kids :?:
do they deserve to die or be killed in that way :?:
......am sorry my dear ....mutuwa na da cin rai bare kuma kisa na kuma kankanin yaro musulmi ko kafiri, wallahi allah ba zai bari ba.

because the prophet muhammad (saw) at the front of war command that' kills no children,spare women and age people'
you see that was the prophet saying, or command but why do they act contrary?? what was the reprimand of those disobey allah's apostle?( fasikun,zhalimun au kafirun)' irhamu man fil ardhi, yarmu man fi ssama'i'.


in my own view, and may be the view of the rest was all soul are of the same,the recent killing in iraq,afganis,bosnia and the rest of the world by american's or their allies like isr'el was barbaric,terrorism  and absolutely anti-islam.   that's why i asked my self tenth of million quetion on why does the US call the Israeli suppression of the Palestinians a war? It is rather a mighty army attacking unarmed people. The Palestinians have no army but a group of boys and youths armed mostly with stones. What a travesty of words ? the hapless freedom fighters are called terrorists while the powerful Israeli Army is called peacemakers. The US support for this repressive country is portrayed as helping a weak country in its efforts to defend itself. On the contrary, the supporters of a people resisting a mighty occupation army and fighting for their freedom are called terrorist gangs!

The support by Muslim charitable organizations for the hungry, sick and destitute Palestinians is viewed as supporting international terrorism! The US also wants the countries supporting these dispossessed refugees to be penalized mercilessly by economic sanctions, destabilizing or dismembering their territories and the installation of puppet governments who take orders from Washington. The US will declare war on these countries if they do not obey its dictates. Is there any worse terrorism than this US behavior? babu sam!!!

this new shape cannot and never deter the religion of islam.....waziri.......

what i expect from you is to say MUSLIM SHOULD GO BACK TO DRAWING BOARD because allah  says' ma farraddna fil kitabi min shai'in' so all resolution to muslim dilemma was there solved . amma mun zauna muna rara gefe.......
finally I,WAZIRI, ' can we allows the wrongdoing of small tarnish all 'me kuka ce :?:
Radina billahi Rabban,
 Wa bil Islami Dinan,
 Wa bi Muhammadin Nabiyya!"

  ABBAS A YAKASAI

Offline _Waziri_

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2004, 01:21:19 PM »
Let me make some few comments  here on what you said

Quote from: "SAAHIB 92"

... while the main concern was the killing of innocent soul.imaging they are harmful enough, does islam certify attack without warning if yes shed light and if not why had they be punished with fire :?:  can you vividly recall the prophet (saw)' if you want kill put mercy on your killing' this refering to animal. and then what of a young harmless,defenceless,innocent kids :?:
do they deserve to die or be killed in that way :?:


Going by the details of what happend as I related above from the BBC Hausa service who killed or caused the killing of the women, children and other defenceless people there?

Quote
because the prophet muhammad (saw) at the front of war command that' kills no children,spare women and age people'
you see that was the prophet saying, or command but why do they act contrary?? what was the reprimand of those disobey allah's apostle?( fasikun,zhalimun au kafirun)' irhamu man fil ardhi, yarmu man fi ssama'i'.


Who acted contrary to these commands? where and when? If you can come up with practical reference on when and where this thing ever happened, we will then apply the same creteria as suggested in the above verse so that we can verify your claims adequately.


Quote
what i expect from you is to say MUSLIM SHOULD GO BACK TO DRAWING BOARD because allah  says' ma farraddna fil kitabi min shai'in' so all resolution to muslim dilemma was there solved . amma mun zauna muna rara gefe.......
finally I,WAZIRI, ' can we allows the wrongdoing of small tarnish all 'me kuka ce :?:


We cannot say what you expect us to say. We will only say what the truth is and the truth is those MUSLIMS did not commit the act of terrorism you ascribed to them. If you think they commited then come up with something tangible to support yourself.

Offline SAAHIB 92

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2004, 02:58:03 PM »
waziri,


smthn tengible?? nothing but the truth, am not such an idiot you might ve' think. what i have posted from the begining of this topic to date contain mostly ayat, or prophet saying, do you think that i will opt to go on ........logic, or so call philosophy and deep thinking as u claimed, never!

i remained loyal to the aforementioned be it ayat or hadith cos' on them till my last. i believe no amount of logic can solve the world's problems except if we go back to where we belong.
Radina billahi Rabban,
 Wa bil Islami Dinan,
 Wa bi Muhammadin Nabiyya!"

  ABBAS A YAKASAI

Offline _Waziri_

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2004, 07:09:50 PM »
Quote from: "SAAHIB 92"
waziri,


smthn tengible?? nothing but the truth, am not such an idiot you might ve' think. what i have posted from the begining of this topic to date contain mostly ayat, or prophet saying, do you think that i will opt to go on ........logic, or so call philosophy and deep thinking as u claimed, never!



Yes SAAHIB 92, you must provide something tangible to prove that those Muslims commited the terrorism contrary to what we elucidated abave. Or you are saying you have done that with Ayat or Prophet saying?

You have quoted ayats in a very rough manner to prove that terrorism is Haram which nobody contested but you are yetn to quote Ayats to prove that the Chechens Muslims commited terrorism. And if you cannot do that you just stay away from the claims that Muslims commit terrorism in the name of Islam. This claim is far from the truth.

Offline Nuruddeen

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Re: what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2004, 01:46:17 PM »
Quote from: "SAAHIB 92"
Terrorism doesn't serve Islam

I was just horrified when I saw on the news that another terror  and murderous act was taking place at children school in russia.i quickly said Oh, not again, and not in the so-called name of Islam. alas!!

 
I want to say for myself, and the majority of the Muslims around the world that we condemn this act of senseless violence and repudiate all those who believe such murderous behavior benefits the faith of Islam or the Muslim people.

Those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam.

We repudiate and disassociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and unIslamic acts.in the name of (muslim brigade) We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

"wala taziru waziratun ukhra"
[/i][/b]


Mr. Saahib 92, I don"t know your own definition of terrorism but I have some cardinal questions for you.

1.  How sure are you that all the terrorists acts being commited in the world, and attributed to the Muslims,  are justified?

2.  Have you read a book "Second Front" by John MacArthur on war and propaganda in the gulf? There, you would see how the Western media designed, manipulated  and fabricated the war for the entire world to see. If you don't know, the whole idea behind war in the gulf was manufactured in BBC, NBC, CNN and other western media outfits for you to see.

If you did not lay hands on this book I would not mind sparing you a copy so that you can see clearly how propagandists are very good in twisting the basic truth. In the book the issue of Iraqi soldiers removing premature babies from incubators was proved to be a palatable lie.

3. It will be difficult for people like me to get convinced on western version of terrorism. Every well learned person knows about the MacArthur's ingenuity in trying to unfold the stark reality in the gulf. In fact, you may not get the book anywhere because of its scarsity since its publication has been "forbiddeen"    by the US government.

SAAHIB 92, I do not know whether you can humbly look at these questions with sincerity and give me your own prejudice?
o try and fail is atleast to learn. That will save one the inestimable loss of what might have been (positive or negative).

Offline Nuruddeen

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Re: what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2004, 11:08:31 AM »
[Haba Dan Allah!
Don't be so deceived by the propaganda of the weastern media please.
What about the unreported attrocities that are everyday occurring in the dependless, homeless and hungry Islamic world?
Do you only see thier action and you don't see thier unbearable suffering?
What do you think about carpet borming then?........killing of innocent women and childrend?
the ophan, the rape widows and those that are made disable for life?....Hhmm all life is equal.
[/quote]


Thank u very much "I" ,this is what people fail to understand. ISlam and every other religion in d world prohibits violence and unnessary killings. But God says the best of Umma are those that refrain from killing one another unless  it's the last resort." Fa in katalu kum fak tulu hum kazalika jaza'ul kafirun".

May Allah guide us aright.
o try and fail is atleast to learn. That will save one the inestimable loss of what might have been (positive or negative).

Offline SAAHIB 92

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2004, 01:40:27 PM »
nuraddeen, xank u very much.... will reply ur quetions inshaallah
Radina billahi Rabban,
 Wa bil Islami Dinan,
 Wa bi Muhammadin Nabiyya!"

  ABBAS A YAKASAI

Offline mallamt

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what is the guilt of those ' russian' children ?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2004, 03:01:05 PM »
It is true that there is some propaganda with what western media says about most of these terrorism thing, but is it not also true that there is as much propaganda in the media by supporters of terrorism? One lesson we are taught is never taken anything on face value, in other words whether it is the west, north, south, east all media let out to achieve certain predetermined position.  So our part is to be able to condem everything that is wrong irrespective of who commits them.  People are killed in the niger delta, hundreds are killed in the US or through actions of the US and britain or any other country, so what? Are we then justified in killing other people? There is a saying an eye for an eye then no one will be left with eyes, so what purpose does it serve? Do we then go for the limbs? when does it stop?  There is no doubt that the US and even some other countries are engaged in unspeakable atrocities against other peoples, that is even the reason why we should come together and standup against the US. Let us take that the terrorists capture an american muslim and execute him or an american mosque full of american muslims is blown up by the terrorists is it okay?  If we try and allow all sides to justify their acts they will all have "just" reasons for wanting to cancel each other out and their reasons depending on which side of the fence you sit will be logical and acceptable.  But if we agree as people on what is wrong and what is right and stand up for wrong irrespective of the reasons why the wrong was committed or who was involved then we will start heading somewhere

 


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