Fahd is dead

[alhaji_aminu]

Salam

Many people in Nigeria felt bad about the death of King Fahd of Saudi Arabia. I am not one of them. Fahd was a perverted king. A heavy drinker and a terrible womanizer.

I read a eulogy in the Economist (US edition)  which gave a very accurate account of his known life. I will recommend it to anyone who wishes to know, independently, who this King was

He did a wonderful job of buying popularity across the world as attested by the many who are now celebrating his life in death. I am glad that this man, who denied women in the Kingdom the right to vote, has been done away with by the almighty.

[_Waziri_]

Actually, we miss and mourn Fahd just as we miss any world figure that did a good deed even if it were of an atom weight.

In Islam we do not wake up to call people womanisers except when we have indelible proofs to that effect. In Islam, the fact that a paper named Economist published that story it wouldn't mean anything. We respect people's privacy, we do not say they commit adultery and fornication or are heavy drinkers until we have strong evidences to that effect.

Also Muslims do not celebrate the death of persons on the surface of the earth. They do not think a single person could prevent the doing of good in the space. Especially when the only crime of such person was that he denied women the right to vote in a manner that only the quantity of votes that counts not the quality of humanbeings ( their deep sense of reasoning) voting, that matters. Afterall what good things did voting got women in USA and Europe that not-voting did not give Saudi women? Did you watch that interview with the Kuwaiti lady with Oprah Winfrey? Didn't the lady express in solid terms the amount of goodwill they enjoy from the government in Kuwait inspite of the truth that they don't vote?

No. Aminuddeen. You  are not like this and I will not be happy to see you transforming. Do not be a bad product of our cultural heritage in the diaspora.

I remain most grateful,

Waziri

[alhaji_aminu]

salam

Waziri barka da dawowa daga balaguron da kayiwa wannan shafin. Welcome.. You are right, I should not  have celebrated the death of Fahd for that is unIslamic.

But what really ticked me off was the kind words used to eulogise him. I have read in the trust newspapers many who only wanted to highlight his achivements without the numerous shortcomings. Fahd was indeed a heavy drinker, a gambler and a womanizer. Economist isn't the only source for this info, Sa'ad Al-Fagih, the foremost Islamist opposition figure of the Sau'd dynasty, has confirmed as much.

Regardless of what priviledges women have in the Gulf, I think, and you too should, that women should be given the right to choose who should govern their affairs. How can we say Islam recognises the equality of the sexes and then deny women a right given to men?

May Allah guide us all.....

[neozizo]

In Islam we do not wake up to call people womanisers except when we have indelible proofs to that effect. In Islam, the fact that a paper named Economist published that story it wouldn't mean anything. We respect people's privacy, we do not say they commit adultery and fornication or are heavy drinkers until we have strong evidences to that effect.

i agree wit waz.
what the late mornach may(or may have not done),i my opinion,now that he is gone is solely btwn him n his Creator.
he was a muslim,so we shld only pray for him .....and ourselves as well.
pop hausa proverb says:"laifi tudu ne......."
but i guess alhj aminu has a right not to like the man for his shortcomings
but id point out that his good deeds twrds his ppl n religion outweigh his faults.
[/quote]

[neozizo]

In Islam we do not wake up to call people womanisers except when we have indelible proofs to that effect. In Islam, the fact that a paper named Economist published that story it wouldn't mean anything. We respect people's privacy, we do not say they commit adultery and fornication or are heavy drinkers until we have strong evidences to that effect.

i agree wit waz.
what the late monarch may(or may have not done),in my opinion,now that he is gone is solely btwn him n his Creator.
he was a muslim,so we shld only pray for him .....and ourselves as well.
popular hausa proverb says:"laifi tudu ne......."
but i guess alhj aminu has a right not to like the man for his shortcomings
but id point out that his good deeds twrds his ppl n religion outweigh his faults.

[Hafsy_Lady]

Salam
Many people in Nigeria felt bad about the death of King Fahd of Saudi Arabia. I am not one of them. Fahd was a perverted king. A heavy drinker and a terrible womanizer.

What ever his way he was a being and a muslim. How many of us fall in unrigtheous ways? We have all sinned before. Dan Adam tara yake bai cika goma ba. Ko kai Malam Aminu how many times have you cursed at ppl, maybe uncountable, tlaked of ppl behind dey backs mabe many. Those little sins can all add up to something you know! Anything he does, GOD BEST TO JUDGE HIM. So he drinks, so he was like an alley cat crawlin around woman, yes that is unislamic and truthfully Allah has said his words in his holy books that those who commits an act of wrongdoing, knowing its wrong will surely perish for their sins. Yet I havent read where HE stated that when a muslim soul dies and his days of living was bad, one should jubilate, one should not pray. Malam Aminu you reason like a child here, yet I believe you are a man that could reason VERY VERY WELL. Ai kamata yayi kayi mishi addua, ka roki Allah ya gafartamishi. So what makes you think you are perfect? Dont forget Almighty takes us away without notice in whatever situation we are in. Some may be saints and die sinners, some may be sinners and die saints. Ina karuwan data shayar da Kare for that matter ta kuma shiga Jannah! A drinker could be your relative lost in satanic pathways, a pervert could be your freind. So are you saying that if one of your close relations commits such an act, bazakayimusu addua Allah ya shirye su ba? Allah is the all forgiving. He can forgive the gretest sins and all he says is "seek my forgiveness and I will forgive you" What make you think that during his days of Fahads ill-health he hasnt been seeking that? What ever he does, or he had done......he is gone and gone forever. Good or bad dont matter, you should be thinking how to perfect your our life zance ko! Like the hadith says : You either say good or keep quite. You dont wanna pray for him thats fine. That doesnt means you should strip him and tell the world any dirty deeds be it true or false, labelling him as another dirty statistic. Or dont you know that Allah yace duk wanda yake tona asirin wani to nashi bazaiyi kyau ba.

Infact Malam Aminu, let me ask you this;
1.YOU LABEL HIM AS A PERVERT, WHAT IS PERVERTISM IN YOUR OWN THINKING?

2.HAVE YOU EVER SEEN FAHAD WITH YOUR TWO EYES TAKING ANY KIND OF LIQUIOR EVEN IF IT IS WINE?

3.HAVE YOU EVER SEEN FAHAD IN A LEWD OR OBSCENE ACT WITH YOUR TWO EYES?

4. OR IS IT JUST HEARSAY THAT HAVE BEEN SPOKEN OF HIM AND YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER TRANSMITOR PASSING NEWS.

And you act like it is not a muslim brother that passed away, just read what you said. I dont know, but I would have said that is so heartless to say. Har kana fada wai daily trust said good and not mention what you so claimed he does. So yanzu kai bakama kishin wanda basu bin Addinin Allah su karanta suce infact even mu kanmu musulmai are not pious, muna tone tonen asirin kanmu da kanmu. How could you even say that. Man! what is up in your head? With all respect, I think you woke up in the wrong side of the bed or something! Fahad is nothing to me just another muslim soul. Dont care what rank or title he holds. Ahmad Deedat passed away, yet I do not sit and think who is better than who. So you either pray for him or keep quite. I dont even speak of what good people do or not when they passed away, it dont matter. Simply pray for them.

Nnaaayi........pesin don go 6 feet unda, wuna still wan chop ehn meat. Only God knows what you pipu will say here, when my time comes :cry:

[bakangizo]

Haba, Hafsy! Wannan irin 'defence' da kika shirya wa fahad haka :lol:  Anyway, I agree it isn't in our character as muslims to 'talk bad of the dead'. Especially if you have no proof of the misdeeds. However, I understand alh. amin's feelings. I too don't particularly like the man. He did enough to set people thinking he's pro-america. Hoewever, Allah ya jikan shi, amin.

[alhaji_aminu]

Salam

My sister in Islam Hafsy_Lady is seriously mistaken in her response to my article.  Ina son tasani cewa my disagreement bashi da ahlaki da person dinta but only that her points were logically incoherent.

Ok, she said, So he drinks, so he was like an alley cat crawlin around woman, yes that is unislamic and does truthfully Allah has said his words in his holy books that those who commits an act of wrongdoing, knowing its wrong will surely perish for his sins. WRONG.
When people do such things they get caned (80 times for consuming alcohol) and killed (for fornicating).

I might be mistaken but can someone really point out to me exactly where the almighty or his messenger prohibited (not cautioned!!) us against speaking ill (what I said were fact- albeit unpleasant ones) of the dead?
Can anyone Islamically justify, why dwelling on facts- as they relate to  a certain dead ex head of state accused of stealing over a $2bn-  is wrong? I can't imagine!

I will like for people to understand my intentions. I never intended to deliberately speak ill of Fahd. No.  I just wanted people to know him in ways they never knew him before. If by so doing I stumble upon a FACT, however unpleasant, I will share it with people because that is what makes us learn, that is what steers us away, that is what makes us better Muslims.

If there is a thing a regret in all that I have said, it is that I said, "Thank God it happened". It was wrong for me to say so.

I will love for people to explain this. If it is bad to speak ill of the dead, why then are we encouraged to speak good of them? Afterall, good and bad could be relative.....

Allah ya shiryardamu gaba daya........ amin

[neozizo]

I might be mistaken but can someone really point out to me exactly where the almighty or his messenger prohibited (not cautioned!!) us against speaking ill  

Gheebah (backbiting, gossip=speacking ill) means that you mention something about your Muslim brother which he does not like, such as his faults. This is haraam, no matter by what means it happens or whatever form it takes. It is haraam according to the consensus of the Muslim scholars. Criticizing people, if the aim is to expose their faults, is gheebah and is among the ?evil uttered in public? that Allaah does not like:

?Allaah does not like that the evil should be uttered in public except by him who has been wronged?
[al-Nisa? 4:148]

the exceptions to this (according to authentic sunnah) IF the intention is  to make a person to STOP commiting evil  and i'm afraid,alhj amin, you have not brought this issue up to stop the late king from commiting evil(for obvious reasos).

ALLah (SWT)Ya sa mu Gane.Amin

[_Waziri_]

I will like for people to understand my intentions. I never intended to deliberately speak ill of Fahd. No. I just wanted people to know him in ways they never knew him before. If by so doing I stumble upon a FACT, however unpleasant, I will share it with people because that is what makes us learn, that is what steers us away, that is what makes us better Muslims.

Amin seems to be missing the points. Where are the facts in respect of the allegations labelled on King Fahd? Or does Amin have four witnesses to prove that Fahd was a womaniser?

Yes, those who commit adutery or fornicate are either stoned or caned respectively, in Islam. But we do not stone people or cane them thru' our knowledge of their misdeeds from the grapevines.

Finally, it is important to understand that according to Islam, if one cannot prove his charge of adultery or fornication against fellow Muslims according to the demands of the Shari'a, he will inturn be caned 80 lashes for the crime of Kadhf he perpetrated against God and the victim of his vilous claims.

Going by this, in a court of law, Amin now is to be caned 80 lashes for not beeing able to produce tangible proofs to support his claims against Fahd. If this punishment is not carried out here, lets be certain it will be carried out in the hereafter. Amin must ask for God's forgiveness.

Islam is simple it respects people's privacy.

[Maqari]

Patrons?????

I personally do not care about the late king?s alleged misbehaviours where women and liquor is concerned, for such trivialities do nothing to affect me or any other person I know of. so it don?t bother me none??? What I would really like to know is where did the Monarch get those $ 6M he once ?allegedly? lost at Monte Carlo Casino? or the estimated personal fortune of ? 30 Billion ????.........  In fact, I honestly think that Fahd was not the worst of them. After all, he did play a key role in advancing the education of women in the kingdom which more or less is better than any of the Ahl-Sauds has ever done. Besides let?s not overlook that decisive financial aid he gave to Bosnians in the recent Balkan wars, when the whole world gave a rat?s ass. In short I think the late king led a carrier/life just as controversial as the next man?s. So my thoughts are; may his soul rest in peace. This however not to be mistaken with the notion that; speaking ill of the dead is forbidden and what not. For if I have something I believe is valid, good or bad about any person dead or alive I will certainly get it off my chest with uncompromising fervour and without the slightest sense of guilt, unless doing otherwise proves wiser and more productive.

My main concern though, is some of the arguments presented above in response to brother Alhj. Amin. Our respected colleague Waziri (welcome back) indicated that the lack of Islamic witnesses renders the article of the Economist meaningless. I would like to call our attentions to the fact that; in a government as un-transparent as that of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia the chances of getting anything solid are close to none. We are talking about a country where investigative journalism is unheard of, about a person whose exact number of wives is known only to a selective few, much less proving a case of adultery against him. How practical then is the task of gathering ?indelible proofs?? Also let?s bear in mind that the assumed information is being kept extremely on the hush by ?law? enforcement agencies that solely exist to serve and protect the kingdom?s elites. An establishment that above all prioritizes keeping the general public?s interests away from the ruling family?s internal affairs. Thus many of us are often left with no choice but to take the likes of The Economist on their words. plus to be fair, the paper is known for it's modest neutralality in a myriad of topics.

Also denying women the right to vote is indeed a very serious crime! Deadly so! TRAUMA! ROOM ONE!!!!! especially when the argument against it criticizes the quantitative nature of the votes in favour of the qualitative. As if to say that only those of us in possession of ?deep sense of reasoning? should be allowed opinions.......... As of the question ?what good things did voting got women in USA and Europe that not-voting did not give Saudi women?? I?ll leave that alone?????? :wink:

And Zizo???????
First and foremost, what Alhj. Aminu did above in no way qualifies or translate as a ?Gheebah? and to deem it so will be excessively far fetched. The word ?Gheebah? rooted from the Arabic word Ghaib verb= Ghaba Adj. Gha?ib/Ghiyaab, literary translates as = hidden, absent, or obscure. Due to its irregular character it?s often conventionally used to imply one of the two senses 1- Speaking ?unfounded? facts about one in his/her absence 2-confecting of rumours. I don?t see either????

I also find it somewhat mind boggling that you should use the ayah from Nisa?a to substantiate your assertion. the verse reads;

?La yuhibbu-l-laahu al jahra bi-s-sou?i minal qauli illa man dhulima, wa kana-l-laahu samee?an aleemaa?

The above ayah is absolutely out of context here. It cautions people about the usage of bad language in public i.e. curses. Except when they feel that injustice is done unto them (for obvious reasons)  and this has nothing whatsoever to do with Gheebah and all to do with the practice of patience and good conduct. The next ayah clearly indicates that ;

?In tubdoo khairan  aw tukhfoohu aw ta?afoo an sou?in fa inna-l-laaha kaana afouwan qadeeraa?

?If you work righteousness - either declared or concealed - or pardon a transgression, GOD is Pardoner, Omnipotent?

Point is; if one is to randomly take verses from the Koran and apply them to any situation one finds suitable he/she will be embattled by more contrasts than any soluble reason, because often those verses belong in a certain context that are specific and non-generic. But hey ! I guess if the shoe fits huh????.

Al-Maqri III

ps. again in my humble opinion, I think when a person is no longer living all valuable information concerning them should be declassified. 'good and bad alike'. this is in no way a breach of their privacy rather a documentation of history 'as it happened. not as some of us would like to remember it'.  Peace One

[Maqari]

How can we say Islam recognises the equality of the sexes and then deny women a right given to men?

.....

an excellent question I would really love to get an answer for.

[_Waziri_]

How can we say Islam recognises the equality of the sexes and then deny women a right given to men?

.....

an excellent question I would really love to get an answer for.

How then can we say the Western culture recognises equality of sexes when they adress a married woman, say like, Mrs. Maqari and refuse to adress the man as Mr. Evelyn?

You see, it is not only through voting oer not voting we can justify the claim of Islam to the equality of sexes. There are other indices.

Will be back.

[mallamt]

How then can we say the Western culture recognises equality of sexes when they adress a married woman, say like, Mrs. Maqari and refuse to adress the man as Mr. Evelyn?

You see, it is not only through voting oer not voting we can justify the claim of Islam to the equality of sexes. There are other indices.

Where does fundamental human rights feature in this?  what about the right to chose?  The use of Mr Evelyn is not prohibited in most western cultures, it is a matter of chioce between the couple.  In some cultures even in africa children take maternal names as surnames, in some wives use a double barrel name (their own surname and that of their husban), still in some women keep their name as is and just use the pefix Mrs, etc.  So I believe the issue here just comes down to fundamental human rights one of which is the right to chose.

[alhaji_aminu]

salam

Waziri cannot be seriously saying that a woman using her husband's name and denying women the right to vote are of equal magnitude on the women-discrimination-index. They simply aren't and I am convinced Waziri knows this pretty well.

I dont think anyone would argue that the equality of the sexes must be absolute. It cannot. For reasons created by nature (Ie anatomy or the physiology of the sexes) and culture, we cannot expect everything that men do women must do or vice versa.

My contention is that for substantive issues like education, franchise, inheritance, and freedom of choice (especially in marriage), women must be given equal opportunity or access.

Western society is by no means one that offers women equal rights as men. The fact that there are organizations that claim to fight for women rights confirms this. Here in the USA, women-rights groups are fighting the US military to allow women fight in combat operations, and to have equal opportunity of advancing their careers etc (glass-ceiline).

This is the way I see it....