THE FGN - KNSG STANDOFF ON HISBAH

[bakangizo]

The Hisbah Board was banned by the Federal Govt, stating that it creation was contrary to the provision of the constitution of the federal republic of Nigeria. Events took a disturbing turn when the Information Minister, childishly and recklessly according to reports, publicly declared that the Hisbah is a Terrorist Organization sponsored from abroad, with its roots traced to the Hezbollah of Lebanon. :cry:  :shock: The KNSG has since taken the FG to court.  Now...,

1. What was the Fed. Govt doing when states first muted the idea of
   creating Hisbah since 1999, by not stoping them if it really believed
   in the unconstitutionality of the whole thing.

2. Why must 'terrorism' be associated with any muslim/islamic activity
  the   moment it becomes unpalatable to the western world?

3. If Hisbah is really unconstitutional, how come the states, replete with  
   State Attorney General, Comm. for Justice etc etc are not aware of it?

4. With the apparent inability of the Fed. Govt. to protect lives/properties
    and adequately maintain law and order, isn't it time outfits like Hisbah
   are given a trial, provided they will be utilised justly for the overall
   good of the societies that opt for it?

5.  What is the connection between the Hisbah ban and the open
     hostility shown on the Hisbah by Kwankwaso/PDP?

6.  Isn't it irresponsible of the Information Minister to make such wild
    and highly sensitive accusation that may likely offend muslims?[/b]

[kitkat]

This is just another cheap shot at another anti third term governor, and a an attempt to play to American anti terror hysteria. Dont forget the US has of late openly spoken against a term extension, constitutional or not, and this kind of gransdtanding seems to find favor with washington.

The latest vibes from abuja seem to suggest that if for any reason the 3rd term ship fails to leave the port, then a situation will be created that will lead to a degeneration of the security situation, which will then justify   a state of emergenvy of sorts, and baba will have to see the crisis through. Where the PDP machinery in a State cannot be used to cow the "enemies", then they resort to efcc or if they dont have a dossier on you, than the state of emergency card comes into play

What is of particular significance in this case is that there was no effort to confront the KNSG with these allegations, they found out from Nweke just like the rest of us, who of late seems to be trying his best to wrestle abusing rights from his co-ranter, Femi F. Kayode.

I dont know about Nweke, but I have always excused Fani Kayodes vituperations against our elders since I know that he may be still be on the rocky road to recovery from his hard drug addiction, which saw him undergoing rehabilitation in Ghana with now pastor Wale Adefarasin.

I saw him on TV writing off this period in his life as recovering from a "nervous breakdown" he suffered in the course of his pro democracy days.(pleeeeezzz!!) Those of us who saw him walking around ikoyi begging for money for a fix within that same period  know better, or ask his ex wife who he nearly killed, b4 she packed her bags and left.

With people like this handling public affairs for baba, anything goes, so dont waste time trying to find reason in the nonsense they spew out.

[mallamt]

1. What was the Fed. Govt doing when states first muted the idea of
creating Hisbah since 1999, by not stoping them if it really believed
in the unconstitutionality of the whole thing

I am going to kill someone is not the same as killing someone do you get the idea?  The states made a statement it is not the same as doing it, I am sure you will agree with me it would have been stupid or silly of the FG to take the states to court based on a statement, I will agree with you if you had suggested going to court when the machinery of the hisbah were being put in place the FG should have then challenged the states

2. Why must 'terrorism' be associated with any muslim/islamic activity
the moment it becomes unpalatable to the western world?

somehow I agree with the question you posed, but then I believe it can be answered by looking at how a tiny number of muslims give islam a bad name with the kind of atrocities they commit.  The second part suggests that the west labels anything muslims do not in the interest of the west as terrorism.  Well I am not sure where your data comes from, but I guess you are streching it a bit you would agree with me that prior to 911 issues such as islamic style of dressing never attracted much or any attention like they do now in western states (you know like the banning of hijab in schools in france).  I believe your statemate is not factual or hones but a generalisation void of any type of facts

3. If Hisbah is really unconstitutional, how come the states, replete with
State Attorney General, Comm. for Justice etc etc are not aware of it?

This is a misunderstanding of the legislative process or laws.  State Attorney generals or commisioners of justice, not being aware of the unconstitutionality of an action or activity does not make them or their opinion right, they are not the interpreters of the laws, the courts are the interpreters of the law. In this case the provisions in the constitution that is relied upon can only be tested in a fed supreme court and not by some state attorney general or commissioner of justice.

4. With the apparent inability of the Fed. Govt. to protect lives/properties
and adequately maintain law and order, isn't it time outfits like Hisbah
are given a trial, provided they will be utilised justly for the overall
good of the societies that opt for it?

Should we go like the wild wild west or should we demand and enforce the state to execute its responsibilities to its citizens? I think it (your suggestion) is dangerous with the potential of unleashing anarchy, a better way would be a unanimuos agreement for the setting up of such units, and this can best be done fron the national assembly and the senate.

5. What is the connection between the Hisbah ban and the open
hostility shown on the Hisbah by Kwankwaso/PDP?

Are you making this comment based on a perception or facts?  Remember kano state is not just made up of kano city and its immediate environs.  By the way are you a supporter of ANPP or Gov Shekaru?

6. Isn't it irresponsible of the Information Minister to make such wild
and highly sensitive accusation that may likely offend muslims?

I fully agree with you 101%, but I think not just muslims but nigerians.  In other words all nigerians deserve equal respect

[bakangizo]

I am going to kill someone is not the same as killing someone do you get the idea...I will agree with you if you had suggested going to court when the machinery of the hisbah were being put in place the FG should have then challenged the states

You are right, but Zamfara state was the first to establish and still has Hisbah. Ironically the FG chose to focus on the more 'juicy ' case of Kano :wink:

...I believe your statemate is not factual or hones but a generalisation void of any type of facts

Hnmm. The victimization of muslims in the guise of terrorism is there for all to see. It is a daily occurrence. I believe I don't need any "factual" presentation as such.

This is a misunderstanding of the legislative process or laws.  State Attorney generals or commisioners of justice, not being aware of the unconstitutionality of an action or activity does not make them or their opinion right, they are not the interpreters of the laws, the courts are the interpreters of the law. In this case the provisions in the constitution that is relied upon can only be tested in a fed supreme court and not by some state attorney general or commissioner of justice.

Correct. However, I personally feel that if state attorney general, commessioner for justice et al cannot reasonably interprete provisions of the constitutions and advise state govts then it is a pity and something is wrong. Either the contentious provision is too ambigous or the FG (as usual) wants to use legal gymnastics to satisfy its interest(s).

Should we go like the wild wild west or should we demand and enforce the state to execute its responsibilities to its citizens? I think it (your suggestion) is dangerous with the potential of unleashing anarchy, a better way would be a unanimuos agreement for the setting up of such units, and this can best be done fron the national assembly and the senate.

My suggestion is not at all dangerous, thank you very much. Which was why in the original post I added a proviso when I said "If the Hisbah (or whatever) would be utilised JUSTLY".  It wasn't the first time the idea was entertained. Do you live in Nigeria? If you do, you may understand our desperation security-wise. When ppl are killed and/or robbed on a daily basis, when you only sleep with your eyes opened. And the breakdown of law and order from the simple matter of traffic control to public behaviours etc. And the seeming and apparent inability or refusal of the FG to live up to its responsibility on the issue. But if you live abroad, you may not understand.

Are you making this comment based on a perception or facts?  Remember kano state is not just made up of kano city and its immediate environs.  By the way are you a supporter of ANPP or Gov Shekaru?

I don't know why you are asking me if I support ANPP or Shekarau. Does it matter? In any case, what I personally know is that ANPP/Shekarau had so far ran a more decent and meaningful govt than that of the previuos PDP/Kwankwaso administration. Back  to the point. You asked whether my assertion was based on facts or not. Consider this:

(a) Kwankwaso has stated (yes, it is a fact), on numerous occasions that the establishment of Hisbah goes contrary to the laws of the country, and that the ANPP was planning to use the Hisbah to rig (funny, isn't it, this coming from a PDP stalwart :D ) the 2007 elections. Never mind that he also wanted to, or rather had started the motion to, establish Hisbah during his tenure. Never mind also the fact that he was ejected by the good ppl of Kano in 2003 when Hisbah was not in existence.

(b) Zamfara (and or two others) still operate Hisbah and was the first to start even before Kano. The FG has closed its eyes, turning its attention to Kano instead. But we all know how desperately PDP want Kano and Lagos come 2007, don't we? :wink:

(c) The Bakassi and Agbesu Boys are still running freely in the southern states. Some of the governos even use them as personal security, with one them publicly declaring that they help in maintaining security in teh state, thereby receiving official recognition. The FG has not done anything about it.

 
kitkat

Your post has put almost everything in the right perspective. :wink:

[mlbash]

IT WAS INDEED SO UNFORTUNATE. BUT THE MOST DISHEARTENING SITUATION IS THE WAY THOSE FREE THINKERS AND ISLAMIC ILLETERATES FROM WITHIN ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT; SIMPLY BECAUSE "AN HANASU FASADI A GARI"

[mallamt]

IT WAS INDEED SO UNFORTUNATE. BUT THE MOST DISHEARTENING SITUATION IS THE WAY THOSE FREE THINKERS AND ISLAMIC ILLETERATES FROM WITHIN ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT; SIMPLY BECAUSE "AN HANASU FASADI A GARI"

hm You must be either God or very close to God's heart and he has told you that your own understanding of islam is the right one and other muslims are illitrate to the faith because they do not concur with you!!!

[alhaji_aminu]

Salam

I had this feeling for along time that Hisba will one day be proscribed. I can't say that I am entirely dismissive of the federal govt's argument ( against Hisba as an entity not its conduct) . Let me quickly make it clear, though, that I think it is preposterous to think that the Hisba people will callously seek Jihadi training from Iranians or Libyans from their embassies in Abuja like the MOI insunuated. Who are they going to fight, if I  may ask?

Truth be told, I have always felt that hisba was NOT a good idea. Not because Rabiu plumber said so or because the MOI said so but because there is absolutely no way for a federal arrangement like Nigeria to have 'parallel' police forces. There have been many attempts, some through nuku nuku, trying to define Hisba's role as not being a police force but the issue still remains that, if they have the right to make arrests or enforce laws made by the state govt, what then differentiates them from the regular police force?

The solution to this impasse is one which the Northern establishment loathes- the establishment of state police. When lagos and some other southern states tried to do it, the so called Northern elders cried foul and campaigned vigorously against it because they, in their jaundiced view, think it will undermine the authority of the central govt ( that was when they were in the good books of OBJ). Now, here we are facing this issue again which is now in fron of the supreme court.
I can bet (and I am not a betting man) that Kano will lose this case simply because it has no merit.
The task of enforcing laws, state or federal, rests with the corrupt Nigeria Police force. Until we change that in the impending consititutional review exercise, we will continue to live with the situation whereby states are making laws with no one to enforce them.

If I may ask, and I need people to answer this objectively, do we really need the hisba? Has their existence stamped out the endemic problems of rape  
and drug abuse plaguing Kano? They are, I acknowledge, rather good in impounding achabas.

Allah ya taimake mu gaba daya.....

[mallamt]

alhaji_aminu

excellent contribution on the subject matter, I believe you have laid the basis for a good and more focused discussion on the matter rather than us brandishing religious sentiments etc over a matter that the land has a law for.

I do agree with you on the terrorism claim by the FG, again this is a situation senior govt officials make wild claims, why are they not giving us proof of their allegations instead somebody just reads a statement?  I also have great doubts about the claim and will not believe it until really substantiated by the FG.

Important point raised is what do the countrys laws or constitution say about the way or manner hisba is being conducted?  In terms of the constitution only the NPF has the powers to provide policing in the country that includes making arrests.  This was tested some years ago on an issue between the NPF and yellow fever, and the courts established that yellow fever had no powers to arrest motorists in nigeria.

So why the noise? All we have is the corrupt police to work with and if the kano administration was strategic and not sentimental, they would have known the place to start is with the constitution.  The state will not win this case it is just clutching on straws, I hope they also educate their citizenry into knowing that a failure in the courts is not an attack on islam or hisba but allowing the laws of the country take its course, or else we may yet see another mayhem of looting, burning and killings for which there is no grounds.

I think alhaji_aminu raised very important questions with regards to the performance of the hisba as well which forumnites especially those in kano should educate some of us about

[bakangizo]

alhaji_aminu

I believe what you said about state police was correct. At the time the southern states were agitating for state police, we in the north smelled rat and stoically opposed it. Arguments could be in favor of those who say the country is not ripe morally, intellectually etc for it. But don't blame those states who opt for the establishment of Hisbah for sincere reasons.. There are loopholes in the constitution to explore. And the chaos in the country definitely calls for that. Why the KNSG/FG issue looks fishy is because other states do operate Hisbah, and they are very much active there.

If I may ask, and I need people to answer this objectively, do we really need the hisba? Has their existence stamped out the endemic problems of rape
and drug abuse plaguing Kano? They are, I acknowledge, rather good in impounding achabas.

I will assume you are not being sarcastic here. :wink:  Yes  , we really need Hisbah or outfits like them. Isn't it unfair to expect them to stamp out rape and drug abuse, problems that have defied all the federal and states security apparatus for decades, in their six months or so of existence? Add that to their limited powers. But, thank you very much, it is not only in impounding achabas that they are good. They have really helped in traffic control, crowd control, petty thefts and patrol the major roads/streets for traffic offences.This is in addition to other civic duties. For instance, the state govt. was about enact laws relating to Bus and Taxi drivers as well. Yes, I believe we need them.

hm You must be either God or very close to God's heart and he has told you that your own understanding of islam is the right one and other muslims are illitrate to the faith because they do not concur with you!!!

Why do you like dismissing people as sentimental whenever they strongly express their views relating to Islam? Why equate someone to God simply cos he expressed his views? :roll:  Well, IAM sentimental when it comes to my religion. Deal with it.

[mlbash]

IT WAS INDEED SO UNFORTUNATE. BUT THE MOST DISHEARTENING SITUATION IS THE WAY THOSE FREE THINKERS AND ISLAMIC ILLETERATES FROM WITHIN ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT; SIMPLY BECAUSE "AN HANASU FASADI A GARI"

hm You must be either God or very close to God's heart and he has told you that your own understanding of islam is the right one and other muslims are illitrate to the faith because they do not concur with you!!!

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OF EXPRESSING YOUR OWN THOUGHT WHICH INVARIABLY DETERMINES YOUR WAY OF REASONING AND CONSQUENTLY YOUR INNER SELF! BUT ALWAYS MIND YOUR TONGUE; YOU CAN EASILY SAY SOMETHING THAT WILL TAKE YOU OUT OF ISLAM!

[mallamt]

mlbash

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OF EXPRESSING YOUR OWN THOUGHT WHICH INVARIABLY DETERMINES YOUR WAY OF REASONING AND CONSQUENTLY YOUR INNER SELF! BUT ALWAYS MIND YOUR TONGUE; YOU CAN EASILY SAY SOMETHING THAT WILL TAKE YOU OUT OF ISLAM!

You must NOT and I repeat NOT try and misqoute or misrepresent the comment I made in response to your posting. Here is what you wrote

IT WAS INDEED SO UNFORTUNATE. BUT THE MOST DISHEARTENING SITUATION IS THE WAY THOSE FREE THINKERS ANDISLAMIC ILLETERATES FROM WITHIN ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT; SIMPLY BECAUSE "AN HANASU FASADI A GARI"

You have just categorised some muslims as being illitrates to islam here in your statement, because they do not concur with you.  It is not like you disagree with their veiw point on an issue, you are classifying them as ILLITRATES of islam for having a differing veiw with you on an issue.

Bakan~Gizo
you wrote

Why do you like dismissing people as sentimental whenever they strongly express their views relating to Islam? Why equate someone to God simply cos he expressed his views?  Well, IAM sentimental when it comes to my religion. Deal with it.

In response to my comment to mlbash.  You claim I dismiss people for being sentimental while expressing veiws relating to islam.  well I do not know you are entitled to your opinion but i think I have done more challenging of veiws than dismissing them.  I have responded to mlbash above and take a look again at his comment where he is suggesting other muslims are illitrates to islam just for having a differing veiw from his.  As for your being sentimental about your faith it is really, in the final analysis, your problem not mine so I have nothing to deal with there so I suppose you know who and where the dealing with it lies.

[bakangizo]

mlbash
I have responded to mlbash above and take a look again at his comment where he is suggesting other muslims are illitrates to islam just for having a differing veiw from his.

What's so strange about suggesting there are 'illiterate' muslims that justify your responding to him the way you did? Are you saying there are no such muslims? They are there in their multitudes, which is one of the reasons Islam found itself in this present situation.

As for your being sentimental about your faith it is really, in the final analysis, your problem not mine so I have nothing to deal with there so I suppose you know who and where the dealing with it lies.

Being sentimental about one's religion might be a problem in your eyes. I tell you, it is not to me. It is virtue as far as I am concerned. May be you might want to come to terms with that.

Anyway, the Hisbah Commander, Alh. Faruk Chedi and his Assistant had been arrainged before a Federal Court to be tried for Treason. :wink:

[mallamt]

Bakan~Gizo

Being sentimental about one's religion might be a problem in your eyes. I tell you, it is not to me. It is virtue as far as I am concerned. May be you might want to come to terms with that.

Where did you get this from did you read my post! I don't care for your religious sentiments!! it does not pay my rent!! nor does it do anything for ME

Anyway, the Hisbah Commander, Alh. Faruk Chedi and his Assistant had been arrainged before a Federal Court to be tried for Treason.

Well on this then I must confess that I must be an illitrate and do not know what treason is, what exactly in their condut constitutes treason?

[bakangizo]

Bakan~Gizo

Anyway, the Hisbah Commander, Alh. Faruk Chedi and his Assistant had been arrainged before a Federal Court to be tried for Treason.

Well on this then I must confess that I must be an illitrate and do not know what treason is, what exactly in their condut constitutes treason?

Which is why I wrote "Treason" in italics. It baffles me also. Well, that 's the story in the dailies. Remember this is Naija where anything goes. :wink:  Expect the unexpected.  In any case, they are still being held.

[gogannaka]

It should be noted that the Federal govt of Nigeria just hates competiton.
No matter how good a policy is,if the federal government senses that it will one day outshine its own 'failed or failing' policy the feds will do anything to make sure the policy does'nt work.
This is just why the federal government decided to brand the KNSG hisba board a terrorist organisation.
How can a state produce something better than the police?Inaa...Just scrap it. 8)