Concerning The Claim of a Promised Land for the Jews

[_Waziri_]

Having driven my points in the other thread started by my sister Husna, I will discuss, here, the falsity of the oft repeated claim, that there was an accord between God and the Jews which gave them Palestine permanently and for life, as promised. I will draw from the Biblical sources  through to Qur'an and side by side the insurmountable evidence of history which will portray in grim light that the activities of the Jews in the Middle East is a breach of human dignity, an exercise in avarice and an eccentricity of the highest magnitude in the sight of God. In doing that we will certainly find the following verse giving the true test of what prophesy is, most instrumental. It reads:


And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the the Prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Holy Bible (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)

Building in the submission of lionger in defense of the fraudulent accord we read in the same Bible how Abraham, the so-called, receiver of the promise, died in a land he bought for himself.

And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave....
The field which Abraham purchased of the sons of Heth: there was Abraham buried, and Sarah his wife.
Holy Bible (Genesis 25:9-10)

How possible is it then that he was given a land when he had buy one for his own grave? This is especially true when we see how another verse from the scripture confirmed it this way:

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off..

Holy Bible (Hebrews 11:13)

Nothing is most explicit than the account given by Luke in the Acts of the apostles as follows:

And God said unto him (Abraham), Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall show thee. Then came he out of the land of the Chaldeans, and dwelt in Haran; and from there, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land (Palestine) in which ye now dwell. And he (God) gave him (Abraham) no inheritance in it, NO, NOT SO MUCH AS TO SET HIS FOOT UPON; yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him.....
Holy Bible (Acts 7:3-5)

No wonder Jesus Christ (AS), the Messiah, liberator of the Jews has never mentioned anything, with emphasis, like the promised land given to the Jews anywhere. But rather he found comfort in telling them the stark truth that the spiritual leadership of Mankind has been taken away from them permanently with his coming, only to be given to another... in his own word:

Therefore I say unto you (Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you (Jews), and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 21: 45

Earlier on Moses(AS) foretold them in this manner as seen in the following verses from our dear Deuteronomy:

Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day I knew you.

(HOLY BIBLE) Deutronomy 9: 24

For I knew thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the lord; and how much more after my death?

(HOLY BIBLE) Deutronomy 51:27

They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they (the Jews) have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are Not A People; I will provoke them to anger with a Foolish Nation.

(HOLY BIBLE) Deutronomy 32:21

THE QUR'AN

Having found no any substantial answer as to where the issue for the Promised Land came from in the Bible, only some good references that suggested the whole idea to mean a lie against God, we will turn to the Qur'an, perchance our Jewish brethren can have some legitimate claim in the LAST TESTAMENT of God. Here we find the verses as referred to here, aptly, by my sister Husna. Let's re-read them together:


20 And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Remember Allah's favour unto you, how He placed among you prophets, and He made you kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures.

21 O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers:

22 They said: O Moses! Lo! a giant people (dwell) therein and lo! we go not in till they go forth from thence. When they go forth from thence, then we will enter (not till then).

23 Then out spake two of those who feared (their Lord, men) unto whom Allah had been gracious: Enter in upon them by the gate, for if ye enter by it, lo! ye will be victorious. So put your trust (in Allah) if ye are indeed believers.

24 They said: O Moses! We will never enter (the land) while they are in it. So go thou and thy Lord and fight! We will sit here.

25 He said: My Lord! I have control of none but myself and my brother, so distinguish between us and the wrong-doing folk.

26 (Their Lord) said: For this the land will surely be forbidden them for forty years that they will wander in the earth, bewildered. So grieve not over the wrongdoing folk. (Suratul Ma'ida verses 20 to 26).

Actually, there is no any point in the Qur'an where a contradictory claim, as is above is made, in relation to the story of the Jews and how they lost in the sight of God. As such we can easily conclude that the issue of the Promised Land found much substance only in the Qur'an. But then the truth of the matter as is consistent with every standard Qur'anic exegete, the Jews where given that land in their position then as the chosen people to lead Mankind in all their spiritual journeys in the universe. But as the time went, they proved arrogant and stiff-necked as seen in the accounts given above from the pages of Deuteronomy, by Moses, and Matthews by Jesus. So Allah said in the Qur'an:

O! CHILDREN OF ISRAEL! CALL TO MIND THE SPECIAL FAVOUR WHICH I BESTOWED UPON YOU, AND FULFIL YOUR COVENANT WITH ME AS I FULLFILL MY COVENANT WITH YOU AND FEAR NONE BUT ME.

Holy Qur'an (2:40)

That is to say they have not lived upto the expectations of God in their covenant with Him as such cannot continue to claim their status in His sight as the chosen people.

HISTORICAL REALITIES

From the point of view of history, Jews have never been known to have evolved as Jews, anytime prior to the time they stayed in the ancient Egypt, beginning at the time Joseph (AS) brought all the members of the family there to stay after he ascended a level, in the leadership of the ancient Egypt. Later the whole family was enslaved under the tyrannical administrations of the native Egyptians. Moses came to rescue them with the instructions that they should go and settle newly, in a Promised Land, from which they will give the desired spiritual leadership to mankind. They proved stiff-necked and rebellious until God changed them with the Arabs as the carriers of his message and the spiritual leaders of mankind in Islam under the leadership of Muhammad. But one truth remains like a hanging myth over the reality of human existence. The Jews under Talmudic prompting have never adjusted to the truth that they are no longer the favorites in the sight of God, as such; they attempted to kill Jesus and spent so many resources in bringing down the Prophet of Islam and his message. Palestine as a land that is chosen by God to be the heart of the earth with a great amount of spiritual goodwill was claimed and continued to be claimed by them.

It is a reality of history that since time immemorial, the ideology or nation that controlled the region has always been the nation that led the world in all other spheres of life. Think of Ottaman Empire, France and Britain. They were all world powers only when they were in control of the region, the moment they lost it, the moment their leadership slipped to the new occupiers of the place and Jews since they wanted to continue to lead mankind under a very false claim they kept the grudge touting the idea that its theirs hook or crook. But the truth of the matter lies in the words of Leopold Weiss another Jew, who converted to Islam around 1922 and having seen the evil machinations of the Talmudist in their plans to assume control of the region concluded about the ownership of the place, thus:

"It belongs to all those who mentally approach it with a humility born of faith in the one God, and particularly to those who, in the words of the Qur'an: "Believe in all His messengers making no distinction between any of them."

I remain most grateful, until I come with my analysis of Jewish worldview in the light of those laws of hate enumerated in the Deuteronomy. Thanks once again.

[Muhsin]

What a good post? Enogh reasons were given, so it's left to people to either believe or do otherwise.
Keep it up Waziri.

[Yoruba Land]

Waziri, I don't have much time as often, I would have helped you as much as I can. This is undoubtedly one of the greatest exposition of the fallacy of the Promised Land for the Jews, I have ever read. Waz, your perspective is always fresh and well informed. Keep up the good work. We cannot survive without your type.

[_Waziri_]

Kola,

I've always wished you could have time to make your views known in this forum not forgetting the many issues you and myself often disagree on.

Muhsin,

The points are always very clear. Once we are able to destroy the religio-intellectual claim of the Promised Land, we can easily move forward and and explore firmer points, thereby stopping the bulk of Jewish statesmen from further frofaning their own spritual heritage in the process of which they endanger the fragile peace, that is giving mankind hope of a blissful future.

[_Waziri_]

^

[lionger]

Well Waziri you've drawn me out. Fine. I guess I didn't respond as you would have expected yet; this is partly because I haven't been around like I used to be, and overtime I forgot about this topic. Also, due to the spats that I got entangled in over these issues, I stepped back to consider the merits of this discussion, and what my Lord Jesus thinks of it. I'm not always keen on these topics, because the common perceptions brought in makes it a petty squabble, void of any spiritual value. What I mean is this: Of what real spiritual value is the land of Israel/Palestine to anyone today in this life and in the after-life, after death? Ultimately we're arguing about ownership of a tiny piece of land. Both sides, the Muslims and the Jews, are engaged in a bitter struggle over this, but are missing the real point IMHO. That point is this; that as I showed in my Genesis post, and as the rest of the Christian Bible (Tanakh/Hebrew Bible and New Testament) says, the promises of the patriachs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was not only about land, or for that matter, about Israel. These things are only physical in nature. But the ultimate fulfillment of the promises is the spiritual blessing of all peoples of the world through the 'Seed' of the patriachs, Jesus the Messiah.

Now to your post. Firstly, I guess I should be glad that you have found a new reason to challenge the integrity of the Biblical premise of a promised land for Israel. If you remember, my Genesis post was targeted at your quip in the Ahmadinejad thread that if the 'shady' promise in Genesis had any substance, then your Fulani brethren could also claim the land through Esau. You are not pursuing that line here, but you still fall short of presenting the Bible accurately for one familiar reason: context, context, context, context, context! Always take the time to read the surrounding verses and chapter to ensure that you are reading the correct meaning into it. Often the answer to your questions are right in the same chapter or a few chapters away, or in the case of the Acts verse, right in the verse itself. Hhis habit of out-of-context quotations has made your argument inbalanced, but more importantly shows an acute misunderstanding of certain fundamental Christian concepts. There is great value in discussing the promises of Abraham in light of these- at least from the Christian perspective.  It is therefore for these ends that I re-enter this discussion. All my Bible quotations will be from the NIV.

This is the full picture the Christian Bible presents about Israel:

1. God brought Israel out of slavery in Egypt and blessed them spiritually (Torah) and physically (land, prosperity, etc) not because of anything good they deserved, but because of God's promise to their patriachs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
2. Israel was unfaithful to God's covenant of law, the Torah, for several centuries after entering the promised land. Because of this, they suffered repeated tragedies beginning in the desert journey and ending with their near-destruction and expulsion by the Assyrian empire (723BC) and the Babylonian empire (573 BC).
3. Israel's captivity in Babylon lasted about seventy years. After this a remnant ( i.e. small number) returned to the land and rebuilt the temple in accordance with God's promise through the prophets, though they never gained complete independence.
4. After over 4 centuries Israel was in the hands of the Romans, and God sent the promised Messiah, Jesus. Israel for the most part rejected him, and he predicted that it would once again be encircled by enemies, destroyed and scattered. This happened in 70 AD and in 135 AD.
5. However, in the future a remnant of Israel will repent, accept their Messiah and be restored spiritually; and at this point the promises will be completely fulfilled.

Just as the Bible predicts Israel's disobedience and punishment, the Bible also predicts Israel's future obedience and blessing. It is that simple.

Now let's tackle your verses in Deuteronomy. First, Deuteronomy 9:24 is obviously not a prophecy:

Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day I knew you.

Moses is reminding Israel of their history of disobedience, not about the future. The other verses (and btw, the verse you cite as Deut. 51:27 is actually in 31:27, there is no chapter 51) are prophecies, but they only cover the aspect of punishment for rejection of God's covenant, and do not negate the fact that God will restore Israel's fortunes at a later time. This is especially true of Deuteronomy 32, much of which is a prophetic song delivered by Moses. Waziri you quoted from this chapter, but again I have to wonder if you read the whole thing. Note the second-half of the song and how it ends:

26 I said I would scatter them [Israel]
and blot out their memory from mankind,
27 but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy,
lest the adversary misunderstand
and say, 'Our hand has triumphed;
the LORD has not done all this.' "
...
Rejoice, O nations, with his people,
for he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take vengeance on his enemies
and make atonement for his land and his people.

In essence, God would not completely reject or destroy Israel despite its disobedience. Even your Quran verses do not say this. I said it to Husnaa and I say it again: That forty-year period of wandering in the desert ended a long, long time ago! The book of Numbers in the Torah also records this aspect of Israel's history in much more detail; read Chapters 13 and 14 of Numbers; also read Deuteronomy 1 and 2. Infact the prophecies in Deuteronomy were made at the end of that 40-year period when Israel was about to step into the land. So I'm afraid your Quran verses say absolutely nothing besides the fact that God extended Israel's wanderings in the desert forty years because of disobedience.

Now lets move on to your quotations from the New Testament. All three verses are quoted out of context; and every single one is misread and misunderstood. You have missed certain key Christian concepts that will help us better in our understanding of the promises of Abraham. These concepts are: living by faith, the Messiah, and the kingdom of God.

1. Living by faith.
Waziri you began your argument this way:

Building in the submission of lionger in defense of the fraudulent accord we read in the same Bible how Abraham, the so-called, receiver of the promise, died in a land he bought for himself.

And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave....
The field which Abraham purchased of the sons of Heth: there was Abraham buried, and Sarah his wife.
Holy Bible (Genesis 25:9-10)

How possible is it then that he was given a land when he had buy one for his own grave? This is especially true when we see how another verse from the scripture confirmed it this way:

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off..

Holy Bible (Hebrews 11:13)

Nothing is most explicit than the account given by Luke in the Acts of the apostles as follows:

And God said unto him (Abraham), Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall show thee. Then came he out of the land of the Chaldeans, and dwelt in Haran; and from there, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land (Palestine) in which ye now dwell. And he (God) gave him (Abraham) no inheritance in it, NO, NOT SO MUCH AS TO SET HIS FOOT UPON; yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him.....
Holy Bible (Acts 7:3-5)

You did not read these verses carefully, and you quoted them out of context. In doing this you bypassed the fundamental teaching of the Bible about living by faith. These verses do not cast doubt on the promises; on the contrary, they confirm and explain them. Lets look at Hebrews first. What is the context of Hebrews 11? This chapter is dedicated solely to the subject of living by faith. Lets read the first verse:

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for.

The rest of the chapter presents examples of these 'ancients' who lived by faith. In verses 2-12, we're told of Abel, Enoch, Noah, and finally Abraham. Now, keeping all these things in mind, lets read verse 8-16, remembering verse 13 which you quoted.

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
11By faith Abraham, even though he was past age-and Sarah herself was barren-was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country-a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.


Obviously the point being made here is that Abraham received the promises 'by faith'! Faith is belief in Someone and/or something that is not immediately obvious, that cannot be seen with our eyes, heard with our ears or touched with our hands. And faith is not just belief, it is action based on that belief, even if illogical by our natural standards. For instance, though we have not seen God, we believe that He exists, and that He has stepped out of His domain to reveal Himself to mankind; and because we believe this, we act accordingly - that is faith. Hebrews 11 and Genesis 12 tell us that at the ripe age of seventy-five, Abraham abandoned his home country and embarked on an apparent journey to nowhere (since he did not know where he was going). And when a 'promised land' was revealed to him, he never came to own any of it, but lived there 'like a stranger in a foreign country' his whole life. Now at first glance these are rather foolish actions. But Abraham lived this way because he was 'sure of what he hoped for, and certain of what he did not see' - God's word that the land would be his inheritance and that of his descendants. Therefore he received the promise 'by faith', and since he did not see it fulfilled in his lifetime, he lived by faith his whole life.  Now this doesn't only apply to the land. God also promised Abraham that all peoples on earth would be blessed through him, but this did not happen in his lifetime either. That is why verse 13 which you quoted says that Abraham, (and Isaac and Jacob) lived by faith their whole lives, because the promises they received were not completely fulfilled in their lifetimes. Even their descendants did not come to possess the land for another 4-5 centuries.

In Acts 7:3-5, Stephen makes the same point. First he says that God gave Abraham 'no inheritance in it, not even a foot of ground'. But Stephen didn't stop there! He immediately adds that 'God promised him (Abraham) that he and his descendants after him would possess the land[i/]'.   Later in Acts 7 Stephen says that 'as the time drew for God to fulfill his promise to Abraham' (verse 17), his descendants in Egypt increased in number and God sent Moses to deliver them. At no point in this speech does Stephen cast doubt on the promises. Abraham did not own the land in his lifetime, but God promised that he and his descendants would possess it one day.

Now since the patriachs died without receiving the things promised, can one argue that God failed them? Are God's promises recorded in the Bible erroneous prophecies, as you seem to be arguing Waziri? Not at all! If you had bothered read the entire chapter of Hebrew 11 you would know that this is certainly not the idea. In verse 16 the writer says that 'God is not ashamed to be called their God'. Normally if you fail to keep a promise to a friend, you'll be a bit ashamed especially when they are around. But God isn't ashamed to be known as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - and he is identified this way several times in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. This is because He hasn't failed them after all, but has 'prepared a city for them' as verse 16 says. Lets think about this for a minute. What point is there building a city for a dead person? Or, what kind of 'city' or country can be of any value to a dead person? What kind of city would a dead person even want? Can such a city be of this world, or from heaven? If you thought 'heaven', then you're not far off the mark! Yes, it is 'heaven on earth' that God is preparing for these people, the 'heavenly country' they hoped for (as verse 16 puts it), or to put it in yet another way, the kingdom of God.

Lets talk about the time Abraham bought land for his own grave. After reading Genesis 25:9-10, you asked: how come he had to buy land for his grave if God had given him the entire land? Good question, but did you search for an answer in Genesis? There is an answer there! Let's go back a few chapters and investigate the circumstances under which Abraham bought his own burial ground.

Genesis 23
Sarah lived to be a hundred and twenty-seven years old. 2 She died at Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham went to mourn for Sarah and to weep over her.
3 Then Abraham rose from beside his dead wife and spoke to the Hittites. He said, 4 "I am an alien and a stranger among you. Sell me some property for a burial site here so I can bury my dead."
5 The Hittites replied to Abraham, 6 "Sir, listen to us. You are a mighty prince among us. Bury your dead in the choicest of our tombs. None of us will refuse you his tomb for burying your dead."
7 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. 8 He said to them, "If you are willing to let me bury my dead, then listen to me and intercede with Ephron son of Zohar on my behalf 9 so he will sell me the cave of Machpelah, which belongs to him and is at the end of his field. Ask him to sell it to me for the full price as a burial site among you."
10 Ephron the Hittite was sitting among his people and he replied to Abraham in the hearing of all the Hittites who had come to the gate of his city. 11 "No, my lord," he said. "Listen to me; I give you the field, and I give you the cave that is in it. I give it to you in the presence of my people. Bury your dead."
12 Again Abraham bowed down before the people of the land 13 and he said to Ephron in their hearing, "Listen to me, if you will. I will pay the price of the field. Accept it from me so I can bury my dead there."
14 Ephron answered Abraham, 15 "Listen to me, my lord; the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver, but what is that between me and you? Bury your dead."
16 Abraham agreed to Ephron's terms and weighed out for him the price he had named in the hearing of the Hittites: four hundred shekels of silver, according to the weight current among the merchants.
17 So Ephron's field in Machpelah near Mamre-both the field and the cave in it, and all the trees within the borders of the field-was deeded 18 to Abraham as his property in the presence of all the Hittites who had come to the gate of the city. 19 Afterward Abraham buried his wife Sarah in the cave in the field of Machpelah near Mamre (which is at Hebron) in the land of Canaan. 20 So the field and the cave in it were deeded to Abraham by the Hittites as a burial site.


Did you notice that Abraham didn't have to buy the land? The Hittites actually offered him their best piece of land for free, and were reluctant to sell! How come? Because they recognised that Abraham was a 'mighty prince'. It seems they were treating him like a king! Abraham didn't have to pay a price for the land; he insisted on doing so. Here's a question for you Waziri: How did these people come to rever an alien and wanderer among them as a mighty prince?God had already started to fulfill his promises to Abraham, to bless him and 'make his name great' (Genesis 12:2). God blessed Abraham and everything he had, such that he became a very rich and powerful man, recognised and well known by surrounding peoples - all this without owning the tiniest piece of land!  You see, this incident is not a sign of God's failure; it is a sign of God's faithfuness. Abraham's name was great then and it is still great today, because he believed God would do what he said, and obeyed despite how stupid and impossible it seemed - he lived by faith.

Even in death, Abraham acted in faith, as did Isaac and Jacob. Why did they insist on being buried in the promised land, rather than going back to their home country? Was there any point to that? They had reasoned that even their death would not stop God from fulfilling his promise to grant this land to them. Remember God's rather crazy command that Abraham sacrifice his son Isaac?

Hebrews 11:17-19.
17By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.

The solution to this dilemma should not be too difficult esp. since you are a muslim (and believe that Abraham was): ressurection! Just as Abraham concluded that God could raise Isaac from the dead if need be, he also concluded that God could raise him up as well. It is no wonder, then that this entire passage of Hebrews on Abraham starts this way: 'by faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went...for he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. By choosing to be buried in the promised land, Abraham showed that he was still counting on God to keep his promise, and God will keep his promise. Now if the promise is such that even the righteous dead will be raised to inherit it, what does that tell you about the nature of this promise? Isn't it much greater than what you first imagined? Do you think Abraham will be raised from the dead to inherit just another territory, empire or nation like those of his time or of ours, or could God have something greater in store for him?

Before we leave this subject, lets compare Abraham's behavior with that of Israel later. According to your Quran verses, Moses told the people to go on and take possession of the land promised to them (through Abraham), but they refused to go because they were afraid of the giant peoples living there. Now this is not faith, this is fear. The book of Numbers and Deuteronomy agrees for the most part with the Quran here, and in Numbers 14 God delivers his judgement:

"How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?...In this desert your bodies will fall-every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. As for your children that you said would be taken as plunder, I will bring them in to enjoy the land you have rejected. But you-your bodies will fall in this desert. Your children will be shepherds here for forty years, suffering for your unfaithfulness, until the last of your bodies lies in the desert. For forty years-one year for each of the forty days you explored the land-you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.' I, the LORD, have spoken, and I will surely do these things to this whole wicked community, which has banded together against me. They will meet their end in this desert; here they will die."

God was unhappy with Israel because they were not like Abraham. Abraham believed God despite the odds and was blessed. Israel did not believe and an entire generation of them died in the desert. Again, Abraham inherited the promises by faith, because as Hebrews says, he believed that God would be faithful to his word; but his descendants Israel, who received the same promises, did not always respond with faith but with unbelief and suffered repeatedly in its ancient history, never attaining the fullest potential available to them through the promises. And finally when Jesus the promised Messiah appeared, Israel once again responded with unbelief, and once again fell out of God's favor.

2. The Messiah and the Kingdom of God
You said this:

No wonder Jesus Christ (AS), the Messiah, liberator of the Jews has never mentioned anything, with emphasis, like the promised land given to the Jews anywhere. But rather he found comfort in telling them the stark truth that the spiritual leadership of Mankind has been taken away from them permanently with his coming, only to be given to another? in his own word:

Therefore I say unto you (Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken away from you (Jews), and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 21: 45

No, Jesus did not talk much about the promised land given to the Jews. For one thing, it would have been a bit of a moot point since the Jews were living in the land already. Secondly, there were things of greater spiritual significance to talk about - such as Jesus himself - and the kingdom of God. The Gospel accounts are littered with Jesus' teachings about the kingdom of God, and you have quoted from one of them. While you might not find Jesus talking about the promised land, you find him talking a whole lot about the kingdom of God, which is in a sense the true promised land! For it is vastly superior in every way to the present land of Palestine. Moreover, it is the complete fulfillment of the promises. Jesus' apparent silence over the physical promised land and obsession with the kingdom of God ought to be your hint that the promises weren't just about land of Palestine, but about the kingdom of God!

Now there is a vast body of prophecies about the Messiah and his kingdom in the Neviim of the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible. According to them, the Messiah would be a descendant of David and servant of God who would rescue Israel from her enemies, purify her and remove sin, and extends a worldwide kingdom of eternal bliss and paradise, with God reigning supreme. Essentially this kingdom would be heaven on earth, and it would never end. But the kingdom of God is not just a future physical reality, it is a present spiritually. It is salvation from sin and its penalty, and release from spiritual bondage into the freedom of eternal righteousness, peace and joy; it is the newness of an intimate relationship with God. Now as I have been saying all along, God also promised Abraham that through him and his 'seed' all peoples on earth would be blessed. When one considers the global nature of the Messiah's kingdom, it becomes plain that it is only through him directly that this aspect of the promise is fulfilled. Therefore, he is the true and definitive 'seed' of Abraham. It is no surprise then that the Jews of Jesus' time were eagerly awaiting the coming of the Messiah and the kingdom of God, and it is no surprise that Jesus spoke a lot about these things.

Actually Waziri I'm not surprised to see you use Matthew 21:45 to argue that Israel was permanently rejected by God, and I'm also not surprised to see that you misinterpreted it by not paying attention to context. You said that Jesus was speaking to the Jews - no! You've made the same mistake again. He was speaking to the Pharisees, chief priests and elders specifically, not the Jews as a whole! Read that entire chapter again and you will find that this discussion started in verse 23:

23Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him. "By what authority are you doing these things?" they asked. "And who gave you this authority?"
24Jesus replied, "I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 25John's baptism?where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?"
They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask, 'Then why didn't you believe him?' 26But if we say, 'From men'?we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet."
27So they answered Jesus, "We don't know."
Then he said, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.
28"What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.'
29" 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go.
31"Which of the two did what his father wanted?"
"The first," they answered.
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
33"Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35"The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37Last of all, he sent his son to them. 'They will respect my son,' he said.
38"But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40"Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
41"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, "and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time."
42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."
45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them. 46They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.

While Jesus was teaching in the temple the chief priests and elders in Jerusalem came to challenge his authority. After rebutting them, Jesus told them two parables. At the end of the first parable Jesus said that the tax collectors and prostitutes were entering God's kingdom ahead of them.  After the second parable, Jesus said that the kingdom of God will be taken away from them and given to another people. Now the tax collectors and prostitutes who find salvation - aren't they Jewish? So it should be clear that Jesus was addressing the elders and Pharisees specifically, and that the 'people' or 'nation' refered to in your verse, does not refer to another specific ethnicity, but to a diverse group of people including those Jews who believe.

Most of the Jews did reject Jesus as the Messiah and he said that as result the nation would suffer calamity. (Btw Jesus did not 'find comfort' in telling them the result of their unbelief. If indeed Jesus was their Messiah and liberator, how could he find any comfort in telling them that they wouldn't be liberated?) But nowhere in the Bible, is it ever said that God has completely rejected Israel and has 'exchanged them' for another ethnic group such as the Arabs. Let's read this passage on one of Jesus' last words with his disciples in Acts 1:6-8.

So when they [the apostles] met together, they asked him [Jesus], "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Notice first the question the disciples asked. They wanted to know the timing of the blessing and restoration of Israel that they thought the Messiah would bring. Now look at Jesus' answer. Notice what he did not say: 'no, you're wrong, there will be no restoration of Israel, they have been rejected permanently'. He said 'God has set a time for that, but its not for you to know.' Like I said before, just as Israel's disobedience and punishment is predicted, so is Israel's obedience and blessing. You can't pick one and reject the other.


............................................................................................................................................................................................
In conclusion I'd like to go back to the Hebrews 11. The funny thing about your post is that this chapter is a good place for grasping the Christian perspective on the promises of Abraham, yet you missed all that because you didn't read it. Verse 13 which you quoted states that the patriachs all died in faith without getting what was promised. Question: why?

Hebrews 11: 39-40
39These [the patriachs, prophets and others]were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Why did the patriachs die without receiving the promises? Well Waziri, it was for you! For you, for me, for all of us in this world; that we might share in the blessings that these people will inherit if we persist in living the life of faith that they did. Today Abraham is greatly revered by Jews, Muslims and Christians all over the world, and his tomb in Hebron is considered a holy site. But this is not what counts - after all the Pharisees also revered Abraham! . As far as the Bible is concerned, what matters is whether Jesus lives in you by faith, for Jesus is the fulfillment of the promises. Just as Abraham inherited the promises by faith, all who want to share in his blessing must also live by faith. It is not those fighting bitterly and shedding blood over the land of Palestine that stand to gain. According to you Waziri, possession of the land of Palestine and subsequent world domination has passed on from one country to the other for centuries - but obviously no dominion lasted and none was without flaws. But those who have Jesus will one day, along with Abraham and the patriachs, inherit a regenerated, perfect world, for ever. The real question, then, is not who should own the land of Palestine today - it is this: does Jesus Christ live in you?

Peace!

[_Waziri_]

Will respond to this approprietly but you seemed to have eaten back your words you claim not seeing the merit of the discourse when in reality you started the strong worded opposition to my position. Your analysis is quite wrong even according to the avowed Bible scholars. I intend to prove it at the next posting I'll make on this topic.

You see, you  only go to the Bible and copy the whole passage which contains my quotes with the claim that you have provided a contextual meaning to the verses I quoted. This is not scholarship. Context means looking at history, time and places of the quotes or passages in the Bible. Lionger, in this you have woefully failed.

[lionger]

Will respond to this approprietly but you seemed to have eaten back your words you claim not seeing the merit of the discourse when in reality you started the strong worded opposition to my position. Your analysis is quite wrong even according to the avowed Bible scholars. I intend to prove it at the next posting I'll make on this topic.

Read what I said carefully. The point that I've been trying to make all along is that the promises of Abraham are not just about the land of Palestine, but about the reconciliation of the whole world to God. Sidelining that fact and arguing about whether God gave the land to Palestinians or the Jews is an activity that most Christians find pointless. This is what I meant when I spoke of this discussion's merits, and that is why all through my post I tried to show through your New Testament quotations specifically that the promises are actually about much more than Palestine. So go ahead and show me how I was wrong. But I doubt that any 'avowed Bible scholar' would say that God's promise to Abraham was a false prophecy; to do that is to plainly deny Christianity!

You see, you only go to the Bible and copy the whole passage which contains my quotes with the claim that you have provided a contextual meaning to the verses I quoted. This is not scholarship. Context means looking at history, time and places of the quotes or passages in the Bible. Lionger, in this you have woefully failed.

:!: Haba Waziri, this is unbelievable! The context of a word, phrase or passage always primarily refers to the surrounding text, always! I keep posting the surrounding text because that provides the immediate context. And no, I don't stop there - please read my post properly! After reading the whole text, I follow through and re-analyse the verse of interest in light of the surrounding passage. Not scholarship? You can't be serious! When one seeks to find the true meaning of a phrase or verse, is there a more basic step than looking at the passage that verse came from? Must we go to Webster's dictionary to define context? Fine, we will!

'1. the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning;
2. the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs '

To be sure, the wider context can also include historical settings if applicable, but first things first. No-one learns algebra before learning addition/subtraction. Why bother about the historical settings of the verse if you're not interested in what the surrounding text can tell you? Often the surrounding text gives a clue to these historical factors. Moreover, now you want to claim that historical settings is the main thing- did you ever provide that? Not in your article above, and certainly not in that phantom passage of Deuteronomy. If you had actually considered historical settings then you would have realised that the 'passage' did not do the Torah justice.

In this case I doubt that the historical context will shed much new light; rather we'll probably end up with a lot of hearsay and fiction akin to what has happened before. Let's stick to the actual words in the Bible and to proper contextual analysis. Honestly I don begin dey tire for this debate.