HABA JANAR - LET IT GO MANA

[Muhsin]

Kuma as for Buhari's inability to bring in votes except from Kano Bauchi and one or two other states, well let me ask you a question that a lawyer may likely ask seeing that lawyers only work with tangible evidence not heresay: How do you know that Buhari will not win or may not have won seeing that the election results were not tallied but only announced from the figment of Iwu's imagination or extrapolation?

Lets be sincere, as that DB called BKG to be and answer his question, to answer this one also. Hajiya Husnaa, the reason is ovbiously with the party mainly that Buhari contested plus other ones. Its almost only in the north that people support ANPP. I learn that when my brother and his friend came back from serving there NYSC in Anambra, Enugu, Imo, and some other southern states. They were very surprised to found people yelling support for Buhari in medias, posters on walls, and other campain machinaries. They said, not even "they" only but its said and believe that ANPP is only a northern party. But her formidable rival has effect on all Nigerian states ground.

Thus, following that aforesaid, there is nothing surprising if Buhari didn't win or may not have won election in Nigeria.

I remeber one thing again; I heard when Atiku was saying, before he decamped from PDP, that he knew if he would be allowed to contest under PDP flag, even if OBJ would be the INEC chairman who was incharge to announce the election winner, could not put him wedge from becoming Nigerian president. That will help you understand the power of PDP above other parties.

If I were Buhari, as advised by many Nigerian political comentators, I would say bye bye to politics. He himself once said; politics is a murky water. So he should neither appeal nor ever re-contest.

Wata shari'ar sai a lahira. Patience is the best medication when you are victimized.

[kitkat]

I was speaking to a close ally of the General almost a month ago in Bauchi and asked him whether in his honest opinion the General could win if the election was cancelled and a new one organised within 60 days. Not only was his anwer an emphatic No, he actually told me he believed that yaradua actually won the election but not with the margin announced. In effect he was saying that PDP went overboard and carried objs do or die mantra to a ridiculous level, amma dai anpp ba su ci zabe ba.

Muhsin is right, elections in nigeria can never be free or fair by western standards becauseof the poverty level and the influence of money on the electorate and the logistical requirements post election, and on election day itself. A sitting president with 30 odd governors from his party (and some from other parties solidly behind him) already has a running start on his opponents. During the last elections even the traditional buhari states like kano and kaduna could not be said to have shown the same enthusiasm for the general that he enjoyed in 2003, in fact in kano the lines were drawn.
I was coming out of the french cafe in kaduna at the height of the primaries/selection process last year when a bus adorned with buhari posters pulled to a stop with all the windows smashed and everybody ran out. On enquiry we were told that the bus was passing thru tudun wada and was attacked by irate supporters of senator aruwa who the General did not favour as a a candidate and was dropped at the last minute.

I witnessd aother spectacle in kura on my way to kano during an anpp rally. A house of assembly candidate had printed posters with himself shekarau and the general and some supporters from the same party held up his motorcade and demanded that he tear off the generals picture "tunda ba ya tare da mu"  tempers flared the driver of the bus took matters in his hands and said he was willing to refund their fare and go back to avoid wahala. In short the posters were amended before ther rally continued.

Same story in katsina where a candiadte contested for primaries twice, won twice but ws dropped because he was rude to buhari.

These were the "home" states.

I know for a fact that in the whole of the south south i dont think there was a single poster of the general balle billboard.   I can tell you authoritatively that in more than half of the states there were no anpp agents for the presidential election at the polling booths except where there was a serious senatorial candidate who had arranged for same and whose agents doubled for the presidential candidate as well. The PDP would probably have about 10 agents, with allowances for canvassing (read buying) votes and in most places for buying over the anpp agent who was there for his sanatorial candidate and really didnt give a hoot about anything else. Elections and preparing for them cost money( even in the USA). The much touted buhari/atiku alliance b4 the elections broke down from day one when the atiku negotiators that included tinubu wanted to know what the general had in his election kitty for logistics etc. The buhari camp insisted that th atiku people declare 1st and a rough estimate of about 7 billion was declared with some more in pledges. The BOT response was that they dont play money politics, and they had "goodwill" of the masses kuma their candidate yana da gaskiya.

The division in the ANPP did not help matters as the Buhari Organisation against all odds insisted on pairing up the general with the octogeneric uzoke despite protests from even the eastern caucus of the party who believed if the position was zoned to he east they should have a say in the choice. The general prevailed and in a move far removed from gskiya insisted that uzoke remain chairman despite thar fact that the party constitution stipulated that an officer seeking a local, state or national electoral office resign his party position 2 weeks prior.

The organisation then used uzoke to weed out perceived anti buhari elements with active connivance of Nuhu Ribadu ad the rest as thy say is history.  Pere Ajunwa who bankrolled the party in the east, and who many thought would be compensated with vp jumped ship. Yerima who had a national electoral machinery in all 37 states was drafted as campaign coordinator, he donated his vehicles, offices etc to the buhari campaign team, but barely 2 weeks later resigned from the position citing health reasons, but more accurately dissatisfied with the fact that the Buhari Organisation was running a paralell arangement and was calling the shots (circa 2003)

The list can go on but suffice to say there is mre to winng an election in Nigeria than bus drivers adorning their windscreens with your stickers.

[bakangizo]

Bakan Gizo kenan, okay lets assume you are in the
position to answer these questions sincerely,
what are your answers (In brief please)

1.  Do you sincerely think Umaru Musa Yar'adua, was at the time of the
     election not qualified to contest the election?

2.  Will you suggest that the presidential election conducted in
     2007 be totally annuled because of allegations of non
     compliance with the electoral law?

3.  Did you agree that the 2007 election was marred completely
     by corrupt practices in the whole states of the federation?

Firstly, I believe Yaradua is qualified to contest. Secondly, you know, I know, everyone knows that the election was a farce. It was a charade. It was corruption personified. It was broad day light robbery. That was not a secret. Even Yaradua, the beneficiary of the fraudulent election, acknowledged that it was flawed. So why are we even talking about whether it should be annulled or not?

Kitkat:
This debate is not about whether Buhari won, or Yaradua won. It is about the fact that no one can say who actually won, and with number of votes. Bcos votes were just allocated, not counted. A friend of mine was a Returning Officer in Yobe state during the election, and funny enough when Maurice Iwu was announcing the election results, he called us from Yobe to tell us that they were at that very moment actually collating the results of the local governments, preparatory to tallying them,  only for them to hear the result for the state announced. That's just a sample. As for Buhari's campaign bus attacked in tudun wada Kaduna, does that indicate anything? Anyone can hire thugs and set them off against opponents. What would you say when I tell you that when Buhari came to kt for his campaign, PDP's HQ was set ablaze, while Yaradua's posters were torn? Of course Buhari was not allowed to campaign IN HIS OWN STATE. He was turned back by the police. Suc was the desperation of the PDP to win at all costs. He didn't spend more than 30mins in kt. I'm a living witness to this. So we should stop talking about whether Buhari can win, has won, or not. Fact is, none of us conducted any Opinion Poll. And we all have our reasons to back our views.

By the way, welcome back to the forum. Kwana biyu.

[kitkat]

Bakan Gizo kenan, okay lets assume you are in the
position to answer these questions sincerely,
what are your answers (In brief please)

1.  Do you sincerely think Umaru Musa Yar'adua, was at the time of the
     election not qualified to contest the election?

2.  Will you suggest that the presidential election conducted in
     2007 be totally annuled because of allegations of non
     compliance with the electoral law?

3.  Did you agree that the 2007 election was marred completely
     by corrupt practices in the whole states of the federation?

Firstly, I believe Yaradua is qualified to contest. Secondly, you know, I know, everyone knows that the election was a farce. It was a charade. It was corruption personified. It was broad day light robbery. That was not a secret. Even Yaradua, the beneficiary of the fraudulent election, acknowledged that it was flawed. So why are we even talking about whether it should be annulled or not?

Kitkat:
This debate is not about whether Buhari won, or Yaradua won. It is about the fact that no one can say who actually won, and with number of votes. Bcos votes were just allocated, not counted. A friend of mine was a Returning Officer in Yobe state during the election, and funny enough when Maurice Iwu was announcing the election results, he called us from Yobe to tell us that they were at that very moment actually collating the results of the local governments, preparatory to tallying them,  only for them to hear the result for the state announced. That's just a sample. As for Buhari's campaign bus attacked in tudun wada Kaduna, does that indicate anything? Anyone can hire thugs and set them off against opponents. What would you say when I tell you that when Buhari came to kt for his campaign, PDP's HQ was set ablaze, while Yaradua's posters were torn? Of course Buhari was not allowed to campaign IN HIS OWN STATE. He was turned back by the police. Suc was the desperation of the PDP to win at all costs. He didn't spend more than 30mins in kt. I'm a living witness to this. So we should stop talking about whether Buhari can win, has won, or not. Fact is, none of us conducted any Opinion Poll. And we all have our reasons to back our views.

By the way, welcome back to the forum. Kwana biyu.

Thanks BG/
I was driving home the issue of disunity and rancor within the generals chosen platform when i referred to the two incidents. The kaduna attack was by anpp members because tudun wada is almost a no go area for pdp. I can tell you that the generals visit to gombe lasted less than even the 30 mins he got in kt with one bus in his entouraged burned and the house of jamilu gwamna where he was supposed to have lunch almost razed to the ground, thanks to Goje and his kalare group.

Also somebody has to be declared a winner no matter how flawed an election is, as long as one took place in whatever guise. There cant be vaccum and the electoral act does not envisage one, which is why it provides for nullification or overturning of such a declaration on 4 grounds after an exhaustive election tribunal process with provision for appeal at a higher level.

There were cases of vote allocation country wide just as the case in 2003, and from a legal perspective this is not difficult to prove in an election tribunal since the petitioner thru a comparative analysis of the collation process from ballot box to ward to local government to State and the final results can expose the fact that votes were allocated and in fact the buhari camp did prove such allocation in some local govts, even in this recent election.

The problem is establishing enough of such evidence to wipe out the deficit bw the 23 million or so votes announced in favor of the pdp and the generals 6 million. If allocation was country wide and sufficent to wipe out yaraduas lead, I  can assure you that the crux of the petitioners case would have been to prove so in court and by process of elimination erode the pdp margin till a clear case of an anpp victory emerges, but typically the petitioners made random references to some states to prove that the process was flawed. There was no attempt to establish a buhari victory based on the fact that they believed he will win based on the NO OF LAWFULL VOTES CAST as required by the electoral act. The crux of their case was for a cancellation of the polls based on SUBSTANTIAL non compliance with the provisions of the electoral act or corrupt practices etc on election day. Atiku butressed his action on the fact that he was unlawfully excluded amongst other grounds, which when rebuffed by the PDP team based on evidence of participation through the signatures of their agents at various levels of collation, later changed to an argument that he was only allowed particpation 4 days to the polls while his colleagues were candidtes months b4 him.  Non of the two petitioners chanelled their energy towards proving that they would have won the election if the allocated votes in question were eliminated and the legal votes tallied in their favour, and sometimes the law can be an Ass especially since it doesnt cater to sentiments.

The fact that the election was flawed does not render it void, i dont believe there is any election that can be described as flawless hence the tribunals allusion to the US supreme court's reference to the inadequacies inherent in bushs 2nd term election especially in florida, but which were not enough to invalidate it. This is an election where the margins were razor thin,  not our case where the differential was in millions.

I agree with you there was no opinion poll, but sentiments aside I still insist that popularity or public appeal within a particular region is not enough to carry a candidate to victory in the nigeria of today.

[Dan-Borno]

After all that transpired at the Electrion Tribunal, the old
Janar has now appealed against this decision after so many
calls from notable Nigerians (including the 19 State Governors
of the Northern Nigeria where he comes from) and dear friends
to the Old Janar.  His Counsel "Ahamba" is the one misleading the old
Janar, imagine the counsel challenging the entire decision of
the tribunal!!!!

Kitkat, barka da isowa from sabbatical

[mlbash]

i don't know why people are so naive about who the janar is? i never and won't for once misjudge the personality of janar Buhari. what people of little understanding about the man should know, is that Buhari remain and is still the only Nigerian elder that believed in honesty and is worthy of such. so the issue of droping his case is not in his interest and people like me, who really believe in an honest system in whatsoever situation.
for me, Buhari is only asking the court to justify the act of inhumanity and barbarism of the so call april election. that's all and nothing else! :-X

[bakangizo]

You see it just the way I do, bash. ;) You know it beats me the type of hypocrisy that is prevelant in our society now. This case is not about Buhari has won or not. In fact his legal team did not siad he won, neither did they ask the Tribunal to declare him the winner of the election. It is about doing the right thing. It is about cancelling the fraud that took place. The robbery. Sata na kirikiri da rashin mutunci. For the first time in our history, we have been adjuged to have conducted the worst election in the continent. Everyone is in agreement, both here and internationally. And this is what ppl are defending? Don wasu sakarkarun banza wai su dattijan arewa sun ce ya hakura? Who are they? Are they not even our problem in the North?

[Dan-Borno]

Bash, i see where you reason, i dont want to engage in
tight fist debates, however, the records that seems to
portray Buhari as one saint is only an imagination and
amplified by so many innocent nigerians, thinking that
the Janar is our only messiah.

the inhumanity and barbarism has been trailing nigerian
politics since independence and buhari has been a beneficiary
and actor since that time.

we are talking about winning an election not what happened
during the election.  if buhari is not fighting to be declared as
the winner of the election i also doubt if he is fighting the
barbaric system that sponsored him.

all we are asking the Janar to do is retire and allow those
whose time is ripe to participate during the 2011 election.
let him continue be the ghost messiah nigerians never got.

[mlbash]

well...............dan borno there's really no point in engaging you to a directionless argurment, cos as it seems we'll never reason in an objective perspective, all the same may Allah guide our nation right. :-X

[lionger]

Last year's election was probably the worst charade yet; even worse than what I expected. One only needs to look back into Nigeria's history - or better yet, look eastwards to Kenya - to realize the potentially grim consequences of such actions. For a while a Kenyan friend of mine kept bugging me about Nigeria's failure to pip up about Kenya's crisis. As I said to him, why should we? We should be thankful that we are not also counting our dead.

I'm no fan of Buhari, and can't quite ignore the irony of a man fighting for ideals he brushed aside with impunity two decades ago. It may be that the status quo is in Nigeria's best interests for peaceful coexistence. That said, I cannot in my right say that Yar'adua's fraudulent mandate deserves protection from legal challenge. At least, lets keep some semblance of democratic ideals...

P.S. Dan Borno, this was probably your worst argument.

[HUSNAA]

P.S. Dan Borno, this was probably your worst argument.

That was his worst...trying to justify the unjustifiable.
I thought Lionger, that when ETE was banned from this forum, you also went into voluntary exile in support of yr southern brother. I was a little disappointed as a result cos I'd always thought of you as intellectually far superior than ETE and by far more reasonable. Well be as it may, I'm glad that u are back and I hope my assumption is unfounded.
Welcome back.

[alkanawi]

somebody is taking potshots here!!!

[Dan-Borno]

Lionger, sorry you came very late, at a time when
we have all closed down our arguments if not, u
would have suffered some missile attacks.

By the way, where have you been all this while?

That was his worst...trying to justify the unjustifiable.

the supreme court has justified the unjustifiable, so
no need for DB to justify any further.  Case closed
down, no appeal.

Did you hear that Buhari has been suspended by his
Party Ward Chairman in Katsina?  we will soon throw
him out of job.  ;D   ;D   ;D  (its a joke)

[Dan-Borno]

The past 6 months did not go well between the old General
and his party ANPP.  The party has decided to bring an end
to this long time unfriendly relationship especially putting into
consideration 2011 is almost around the corner.

It is on this basis that the TOFA COMMITTEE is initiated and
among its terms of reference is reconciling all warring parties
within the circle of the second great party in NIgeria ANPP.

Though the committee has succeeded in so many States of
the Federation, its seems the old General is proving to resist
any form of reconciliation.

It could be remembered that the born of contention between
the parties stalwarts and Buhari is the participation of the
former in the Government of National Unit (GNU) which Buhari
vehemently opposed.  The decision by the party is for the
best interest of the nation and there is light that Buhari is
suppose to see.

If this negotiation and reconciliation is not positive on the side
of Buhari, there is strong indication that Buhari will be opting
for another party for his dream ambition.  THough TOFA's
committee has been trying, we call on the Old General to accept
faith as it is and even after the reconciliation, be adviced to
act as the party's board of trustee chairman and let the party
endorse a worthy candidate, some one like SHEKARAU or
Gombe's powerful GOJE and in the absense of the above
DAN-BORNO is interested seriously  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
while NURA JIBO Deputised for me.

[bakangizo]

THough TOFA's
committee has been trying, we call on the Old General to accept
faith as it is and even after the reconciliation, be adviced to
act as the party's board of trustee chairman and let the party
endorse a worthy candidate, some one like SHEKARAU or
Gombe's powerful GOJE and in the absense of the above
DAN-BORNO is interested seriously  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
while NURA JIBO Deputised for me.

Ha. A lot of people would have issues with his candidacy. I'm his staunch supporter, but I tell you I'm losing some of my confidence in him. I get a feeling he's deviating from his ideals, while his biggest problem is that he is a "softy", and that won't just work in a country like Nigeria. But all in all, a good person.