Yusuf Islam's deportation

[Ummulhuda]

Yusuf Islam's deportation from the US about 2 weeks ago underscores the United states Paranoia over Muslims. This is a bonafide Englishman Muslim whose 'links' to alqueda is that he is a prolific Islamic Evangelist of the most peaceful kind. Yet he is considered a security threat. (  :? ). Does this mean then that prominent Islamic clerics are (or will be) barred from the US in future?

[alhaji_aminu]

salam

many other muslims are denied entry into america. some have merit some do not. whether or not Yusuf Islam is entitled to enter america is a prerogative of the american government. that is, they have everyright to stop him from coming here.
i think he should channel his anger somewhere!

[Ummulhuda]

Hmm shows my ignorance on the subject matter. I expect you are right and because he is not only an Englishman, but a famous one at that  his deportation made the news while other lesser known mortals were bypassed.
However methinks  the guy rubs u up the wrong way. I wonder? and I think he is right to try and sue the American Govt.  That should pioneer the way for other victims of America's paranoia to seek compensation for rough handling.

[kitkat]

Somehow I dont agree with myadudus justification that the americans have a right to deport someone based on the simple fact that he happens to be a muslim, which is all this is about. Since 911 a no. of obnoxious laws and amendments have cropped up in the US, the most dangerous of which is the patriot act which gives the govt the power to do almost anything. A number of these laws are currently doing the rounds in the American justice system and sometime ago a legal victory of sorts was acfhieved over some aspects of indefinite detention.

Its not so much the laws themselves as the way they are being applied. While the US can decide who to let into the country there are laid down rules under their immigration laws as to grounds for refusal of entry or deportation. Dont forget that usuf Islam as a british citizen doesnt even require a visa to enter the states. These have all been thrown out since 911 and a system of "profiling" which is just a polite alternative to "discrimination" is now in use.

In case youre not aware apart from thousands of names on a watch list every moslem name on earth forms part of the profile database, and at the very least some level of special attention is given to every person bearing a muslim name, ranging from additional checks b4 boarding to outright refusal to baord a plane.

I was a victim of this on a local flight from DC to Los Angeles sometime ago. 4 of us 3 moslems and a briton travelling as a group were checking in and one of our party was singled out for a thorough check of his luggage and a red X marked on his boarding pass which we later discovered was a sign for intense body search at 6, yes SIX! different check points b4 boarding. All of us went thru the same routine and not a single other person on that flight was given this treatment in the queue. When I asked  the young black lady at the counter why ,she said it was random and I looked her in the eye and said random my a**! She then smiled and said listen its this profiling thing and the computer picked out our names. Not only that it autocompleted the names of one of us to Yusef, the spelling in the database, and no amount of explanation would make her change it to Yusuf, his real name. The briton also went thru the same treatment cos we booked as a group.
I would also advise against showing up at the airport with a long beard or wearing a turban or hijab unless you turn up 2 hours early and have time to burn.

This is the kind of religious discrimination driving the policy responsible for yusuf islams deportation. I guess since Tom Ridge and his goons in the Department of Home Security have yet to catch a single terrorist, they have to justify their existence by chasing shadows and creating bogey men out of every moslem soul.

How is yusuf Islam more dangerous or radical than sheikh Hamza Yusuf, an american convert who was appointed a bush advisor to placate american moslems in the aftermath of the hatred and disdain they suffered post 911?

[Ummulhuda]

Kitkat that was very interesting. Its interesting that u mentioned the wearing of Hijab. How do you think then a woman will be treated if she wears a pair of jeans with a T shirt and then just covers her head with a veil? Does she get the all out treatment also?
Then in view of the current Talibanism that is resurging in some parts of Nigeria I am wondering about the selection process that happens when Nigerian Muslims on Nigerian soil apply for a visa to the US. How are they treated?
 How many are given and how many are denied?

[_Waziri_]

I think we will start being unfair to ourselves if we say we don't know about the ideological battle hence cultural war that is currently going on between Western culture and Islamic culture.

America being the touch bearer of Western civilisation leads the frontier of the battle and the aim is to crush Islam and all elements of its culture( culture here means organised way of life) from the surface of the earth just as it tried communism.

I do not think I have to deal with details and maximum references before I can make everybody see reason in my claims. I also do not require more proof apart from what Kitkat said to make all see that this thing is being effected to the end of the stretched string.

Just some few weeks back, a brother adressed some of our sisters in FOMWAN here in Nigeria celebrating the fact that America has succeeded in forcing saudi government to change the curriculum of Islamic Studies taught in Saudi Kingdom. He was ridiculing our local scholars who once read in Saudi Universities. He thinks he is doing a service to "true" Islam by crushing those he believed to be the promoters of militant Islam.

This claim of his is far from the truth. The West in its bid doesnt distinguish between any militant and non militant elements in Islam and Muslims. The West aims at Islamic culture anywhere across the globe. It doesnt care whether it is Shi'a, Wahabi, Sufi or whatever. Evidence of this is their fight against Iran and Saudi curriculum at the same time. Before then also was Ottaman Empire of Turkey which harboured an Islamic worldview different from Saudi of today and Iran. So anybody who allowed himself used to crush any Islamic group in the name of liberalisation or democratising Islam should know the West will only finish up those groups only to turn its aggressive tone to HIM.

Our position is for a worldview that insists the world be seen through a divine script and preferably the Qur'an, not just reason and materialistic philosophies that are never new and novel in anyway which the West wish to make the in thing.

For the West with America in its forefront our claim is one: Let them allow us live our own way. We do not desire to crush them. We do not want impose our ways on anybody. Muslims have ruled India for over 700 years but they did not force the Indians to convert. That was why many of them later could chase the Muslims out of their lands.

Also we have ruled Spain for almost 800 years but yet we have left enough people to practice their faith that they coukd chase us out of the land later.

The West in the name of America should learn to understand that nature itself is dual in attribute. They do not have to quence Islam and its culture or its representative elements like Yusuf Islam and Kitkat by denying them some of  their rights. And also by branding us terrorists upon a slightest action of protest or inclination to seek for our freedom. The West should understand that they need not to fabricate 9-11 and hinge it on the Muslims just for the simple reason that they have to declare some foolish war on "terror" that till today kill nobody but civilians and refused to find the much taunted WMD.

We are ready to have a dialogue with the West that a win win situation may be achieved.

[mallamt]

Do we remember that some years ago a Christian evangelist tried to have a revival or something in kano and he was refused, that is after crowds had gathered for the revival and his plane was turned back and not allowed to land in kano? (it actually led to a religious riot in kano) The same rev was refused entry into nigeria recently for a revival for "security" reasons.  What I am saying is we in Nigeria have also been banning people from entering the country for "security reasons".  So if the americans feel threatened in any way, that is their cup of tea what is our business with how they want to run their own internal affairs?  we will also like to be allowed to run our own internal affairs I am sure, my question will be were any of Yusufs rights infringed upon? if yes then he does have a right to challenge the US if no then what are we here talking about?  Do we have to go to a country we are not wanted?  I have a problem with the process and requirements for visitors entering the US and for that reason I am not interested in going there, I do not have to be there, it is as simple as that. We must stop this double standard of accussing the US for everything wrong on the face of the earth and then struggle to want to go to the US because it is either we are trying to get in there to harm them or we are lying and do not ourselves believe in what we say about them.

[alhaji_aminu]

salam

KitKat I do sincerely sympathize with you on account of the nasty treatment you received from American officials. Allah shi kiyaye gaba.
Now, you are right: the Patriot act is flawwed and funny enough, un patriotic. That is why some sections of it were struct down by a district Judge in Los Angeles. A great thing this is I say. A testament to the greatness of America.

Going back to the issue of Yusuf Islam, I think if he had filed a motion in court, preferably the federal courts in the West, he is likely to be allowed to enter this country. He did not and instead chose to publicize the matter in a way that does tremendous damage to all who went through similar circumstances.

Another thing is, he was quoted as supporting 'suicide bombers' in palestine. It is illegal to do this in the States. And I believe,  the US is wary of letting someone like that enter its territory and incite others to become 'suicide bombers' etc.

In a nutshell, I think while America has every right to stop him from entering, it should have instead, allowed him in and then restrict what it is he can stay while here in the States. More like what the UK did when Jean Marie Le-pen went there.

Of course that is just my opinion!

[kitkat]

Myadudu I think Yusuf Islam must have either been deliberately misquoted or quoted out of context on the suicide bomber thing. I have never come across an instance where he expressed support for suicide bombing.

I do know that he has appealed to the west to find out what will propel a teenager to kill himself in the prime of his life, and why thousands enlist to offer themselves for sacrifice. I believe he was trying to highlight the kind of pain and hopelessness that acts as a backdrop to the middle east situtation.
As you can see from the statement by yusuf islam below he actually initiated a legal process as soon as his ordeal was over. Dont forget he was DETAINED and then deported.The press latched on to the story and blew it up, you cant blame the guy for that!

STATEMENT BY YUSUF ISLAM ON HIS DETENTION AND DEPORTATION.
"
First, I thank God for relieving me of my ordeal and delivering me home safe; also, thanks to all those who prayed for me and supported me through this whole dark episode, from eminent politicians, the press and religious leaders, to plain, everyday people. Never would I believe that such a thing could happen in the 'land of the free' - unfortunately, it did. But it's warming to have such a wave of sympathy from my friends and my worldwide well-wishers.

After the experience of my dramatic deportation from the U.S.A. it feels like I am on a different planet from the one I was on a couple of days ago; certainly the world has changed, not for the best. Two days beforehand, I had started a journey with my daughter to Nashville, intending to initiate work on a new recording project. Suddenly, our aeroplane was diverted 600 miles to Bangor International Airport and I found myself surrounded by six uniformed officers and handed over to the FBI for questioning.

The most upsetting thing at this point was being separated from my daughter, Maymanah, not knowing how she was or when and where we might be united. And since my phone was confiscated I couldn't contact my family (nor could they ring me) and they were relegated to watching the whole frightening episode on TV and surviving on scraps of information shown by the media.

My interrogators repeatedly wanted to know how my name was spelt; it sounded to me as though they had it mixed up with someone else's. Security officers finally told me that my name was on a 'No Fly List', I was classified as 'Inadmissible', and sent back to London.

The amazing thing is that I was not given (and have still not been given) any explanation whatsoever as to what it is I am accused of, or why I am now deemed an apparent security threat - let alone given an opportunity to respond to these allegations. I was simply told that the order had come from 'on high'.
We have now initiated a legal process to try to find out exactly what is going on, and to take all necessary steps to undo the very serious, and wholly unfounded, injustice which I have suffered.

I am a man of peace and denounce all forms of terrorism and injustice; it is simply outrageous for the U.S. authorities to suggest otherwise. I have dedicated my life to promoting peace and understanding throughout the world. It would be devastating were the charity work I do through my humanitarian relief organisation, Small Kindness, which helps countless children and families, and which is accredited by the United Nations, to be undermined by what has happened.

What makes the situation even more distressing is the fact that I have now been prevented from entering the United States - a part of God's earth that I love and whose people have always been great friends to me.

Yet, after all this, I can think of no better response than by continuing what I believe to be the tremendously important work of caring for the needy and campaigning for peace and stability in this volatile and increasingly violent world, and at the same time try to seek to clear my name of this appalling and baseless slur. In the meantime I am confident that, in the end, good sense and, above all, justice, will prevail.

------------------------

Note to Editors: Yusuf Islam's legal advisers are currently seeking clarification on the detention from the US Consulate. Cat Stevens was one of the biggest solo artists of the 1960s and 1970s, penning such songs as Matthew & Son, Moonshadow, Wild World, Peace Train and Father and Son and selling millions of LPs. Following a bout of TB early in his career he undertook an ongoing search for peace and ultimate spiritual truth. He embraced Islam in 1977 and changed his name to Yusuf Islam. Last year he was awarded the World Social Award by former president Mikhail Gorbachev for his humanitarian relief work helping children. He also performed at Nelson Mandela's AIDS benefit concert in South Africa.

Enquiries to: press@yusufislam.org.uk

________________________________


 

[_Waziri_]

I have said several times here and everywhere that NO ACTION no matter how heinous is wrong. But what makes it so or other wise depends on the circumstance and condition it is "executed".

For example,

We can say it is wrong to kill;  but if done in the name of self defence it becomes right.

there fore  whenever anything happen we do not look at just the happening to justify it but rather we look at the reason why it is done.

Nigeria denied Ahmed Deedat entry into it's territory... before we say the Authorities have the rights to do that even when allowing other foreigners to come in we have to look at the reason they give first.

Rein Hard Bonke a European Christian evangelist was "admitted" into the Nigerian territory but denied the chance to go to Kano... before we say the Authourities were right or wrong we have to look at the reasons they gave first.

Yusuf Islam was denied entry into American territory inspite of the claim of America of being liberal to all in this respect with no regard to ones faith... After examining the situation and the reasons America gave we say here America is wrong. And I think it only at the level of those reasons we can say something is right or wrong not to just say America has the right to or not. It doesn't work that way.

Lastly, only those among men and women who look at the reason  for actions not just the actions can have a greater ease in being good managers and leaders wherever they find themselves. They will always find the activity in problem solving in their Homes or Offices  very easy like the journey  of plastic  cup over the atlantic ocean.

[_Waziri_]

Oh Sorry pls, just noticed it was UmmulHuda that started up this thread. I will want say I welcome her back greatly and graciously. That many among us really missed her.

[mallamt]

Yusuf Islam was denied entry into American territory inspite of the claim of America of being liberal to all in this respect with no regard to ones faith... After examining the situation and the reasons America gave we say here America is wrong. And I think it only at the level of those reasons we can say something is right or wrong not to just say America has the right to or not. It doesn't work that way

 It is good to see that US claims to be liberal and not that they have been adjugded by the world and have been given a certificate to that effect.  They have a choice to portray an imagine of being a liberal country and allow Yusuf Islam in or not portray the liberal image damn the consequence and not allow Yusuf into their country.  The choice is theirs and it affects their country and they have made their choice, how does it affect us?  The reasons they gave we know are inconsequential, even with those reasons if they had wanted to allow Yusuf in they would have.  The analogy with the plastic cup best suits the non exisitence of clear goals and objective, it is like being a ruderless boat that just turns because the wind blows in from a direction

Lastly, only those among men and women who look at the reason for actions not just the actions can have a greater ease in being good managers and leaders wherever they find themselves.

Reasons for actions is the worst starting point for any manager.  Every action good or bad has a reason.  Setting clear goals and objectives on the other hand is the more critical.  In all that we do we must have a clear  base line, from which it can be determined when a reason goes beyond the threshold or the base line.  Stealing is stealing in whatever circumstance, however there could be mitigating circumsatnce on a case by case situation.  The fact in a case a theif has a very good reason for stealing, does not diminish the fact he has stolen, however the reason for stealing could be mitigating factors that affect the final punishment.

[_Waziri_]

Reasons for actions is the worst starting point for any manager.  Every action good or bad has a reason.  Setting clear goals and objectives on the other hand is the more critical.  In all that we do we must have a clear  base line, from which it can be determined when a reason goes beyond the threshold or the base line.  Stealing is stealing in whatever circumstance, however there could be mitigating circumsatnce on a case by case situation.  The fact in a case a theif has a very good reason for stealing, does not diminish the fact he has stolen, however the reason for stealing could be mitigating factors that affect the final punishment.

I fail to see how this will mean a valid counter to what you have quoted of me above, just as I cannot make sense out of the other reply  you made to another  quote of mine in precedence. Perharps you've only wanted to make a personal statement of your own. Or atleast forcefully counter my position.

But the next time you shout on your wife for "stealing" your properties when you did not feed her properly we certainly will begin  to question your sound management and ledership sense. Both the two come with obligations first which demand that you act well first before you expect others to act well at you. For if not and if you fail to see that the way others react to you is a direct implication of the way you react to them then the score sheet of your instructor in magement theory will always read a capital F in return, then probation, then withdrawal.

[Humrah]

Many of my cousins living in USA from Malaysia suffered the same treatment inspite of them being Americans. I guese tis because of their Islam. It is not fair.

[Ihsan]

Yusuf Islam was awarded the Man of Peace award on Wednesday (I can't remember where it was...but it's on the tip of my tongue)

He was here in Dubai 2 weeks ago and gave a lecture and then the next day signed his new cd ...it was really great. And his company (Mountain of Light Prod.) has moved to dubai also.

Shiekh Hamza Yusuf too was here and he gave a lecture at our Uni on Islamic contribution to Civilization. It was also a great lecture.

It was pleasurable meeting both of them at the same time