Author Topic: Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple  (Read 15342 times)

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Offline DanBanza

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2003, 03:16:29 PM »
waziri, well said.

As you advocate for the separation of Nigeria, I believe a united Nigeria is necessary to be a successful nation - we die together or we die separately. The resources we have; natural and human, provide us with a synergic advantage.

Today, millions of southerners live and work in the north. Same with northerners living and working in the south.  You'd prefer to think that the ethnic groups in nigeria generally dont have any chemistry but that is just the pessimistic outlook, resigned to acknowledging that Nigerians are different from each other as oil and water.

we all went to schools that contained people from the different tribes of nigeria and for the most part jelled well with them. So what stops the new generation of Nigerians from working toward achieving unity and equality among tribes? Simple, we keep on preaching the principles of superiority.
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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2003, 11:31:22 AM »
I never thought I'd be agreeing wid Danbanzan mutum, but I'll say nice work.I'm kinda late here, Nigeria...a sad story so far. At times I feel its insulting to be Nigerian, coz there is no Nigeria, Nigeria is a failure.Okay enough of my heart, here is my brain.
 What we need is a rebirth, not splitting, Ideal principles not
sentiments, a powerful patriot on the number one seat, not
splitting the seats. what we need is a miracle.
  Alhamzah,I feel u, I'm with u like, 110%. Lionger Nice points.
    The legendary waziri, what makes you think of all miracles the divorce will be peaceful? We have seen cyprus,though much on religios beliefs yet if it weren't the power of Turkey and Greece...there is no saying what will be happening there. Slovakia and Czech republic may have succeeded because they eventually integrated into European states. The so called deleoped countries still want to develope. God knows the strength of the U.S is in their Largeness, despite the multiple types of people down there.
The China and Russian Federation aren't any different. That is
what Europe sees, and that gave us the birth of the E.U.
     Nigeria is relatively a much smaller place, and the issue of the divorce needs adeqaute scanning. If We ever split up, do u think our problems are solved? or maybe we might not be lazy coz we might put this thing about "rivals" in our heads? Just like my latest friend danbanza said: We do not preach a gospel of unity among ourselves, its the Nigerian thing. Even among our friends, we are looking for the best of us in doing nothing. Our reluctance is a historical fact and it is our failure. It brought about lack of security not to mention ethnicity, it brought our curruption and it brought our failures.
     What we should be looking at is towards one Nigeria, not OPC, or pro Northern Nation, If we split, by God  our reluctance and a more integrated ethincity (e.g Hausa against the tivs or the sayys, igbo against the benins etc), National unawareness and insecurity, I dont care attitude of the Hausa and the Nigerian man in general is what will make us crash down into engulpment by another nation. Another colonialism.
     We should try and work hard, drop some mentality that is still being built to concrete in our minds about the ethnic individuality.
We should understand our differences, likes and dislikes and work towards towards minimising and appreciating those differences. We need a new constitution. Besides, I dont think democracy really is the right government for us. I mean Democracy...the decoration of independence, the constitution, there are all a piece of paper with signatures on them. A peice of paper with signatures are called contracts. Contracts can be renogotiated at any time. This renegotiation results to presidents making laws of thier own sentiment or regional interests.
    I think we should have a government with state gvernments then, sole administration and some one at th top of it all.
Something like what the u.s is having now. not exactly though.
    What Nigeria lacks is unity, true. But you cant give present
Nigerians that unity by dividing them. We lack that in our hearts yes, but we cant even unite ourselves localy in communities and even schools which may have nothing to do with ethnicity. What do you say about that? If at all we will split, believe me it will get to a point that sides will lack recognised representatives, or at least that which they have faith in, evident division, Havok and Mayhem.
    Waziri, I like ur theory and it just might work, but thats in a perfect world. I'm afraid the real world is far from being perfect my friend. I shall leave this here...
   
Safety and Peace

Offline Waziri

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2003, 07:02:49 PM »
DanBanza, true to God it projects ill feelings to suggest a decision of the kind I have. This even to myself.

I have grown in a very liberal place like Kaduna. Lived in a mixed place, school in a mixed school and now I am earning my living in a mixed environment. Infact the Professor who signed my appointment and insisted on the procedure that led to my choice as the most succesful candidate was a Yoruba man.

Danbanza, my politics, vision and hope for a better nigeria based on principles trancending tribal and religious sentiments trace their History to no-when in my life. This we have proven in many papers we have presented in conferences. It also reflect through all the past articles I have written on the subject as I qouted in my first post initiating this thread. Please check this link you will see one:

http://www.gamji.com/NEWS2686.htm

Please go thrugh it, study me, and understand the way I was first before acquiring this newfound opinion.

But Yet their is a truth of life, leadership and the ways of garnering the support of crowds.

Theorists have for long elaborated on these aspects:

Leadership should always learn to appeal to the emotions of its subjects more than their reason. Because naturally a crowd contains more of  a people that are suscetible to what they can see not what they  can think out for themselves.

This is the reason why Ahmed Sani can gain support of the when he advocates for Shari'a even though the shari'a he practices doesn't reflect justice.

This is the way with leadership.


For those who are inclined towards misinterpreting our notion:

 
Quote
My argument right from the outset was not tribal or religious but the fact that under this arrangement the leaders do not find it easy to consolidate themselves in the power corners so as to work for our development. And the emotions of the masses which is purely religious or tribal makes it easy for the elite to manipulate them for their own cynical ends.

I then concluded that a separation that will produce a large population that have a similar worldview is desired so that when the elite are up to a cheat a Georgia can be implemented. And on the part of the elite power tussle will be reduced that they may have reason to consolidate much in the power corner providing us with the best they can.

I am for long looking for an argument that will debunk this reality and give us some hope. We have dealt in our earlier posts with the questions of America and European Union and I think there is no need for me here to repeat ma self.

Thanks to you once more.
I remain loyal to our friendship, your fine wordings.

Offline Muhammad

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2003, 10:54:13 PM »
Salam All
I must confess iam replying to this topic even without reading the original post. What really caught my attention was the idea of "separating" of Nigera. in my own thinking such schism will bring nothing but more squalor for the lot of Nigerians.
If we are to look at the world today, we see globalization, the Euro Zone, ECOWAS, OAS, SADC, GCC and multitudes of other organizations trying to bridge that very divisive divide.
In short division is bad.
Waziri (zayyanu ???), what does one say about his relatives who fought and died (in the civil war) for the continued existence of Nigeria. I am sure you are aware there is virtually no Biafran city "liberated" where Northern blood was not shed. I am sure neither Murtala Muhammad nor Shehu Yar'adua ( both people you admire) would be pleased with your idea. For they are both wounded in civil war.
Having said that, one must also consider what benefit, if any, a separation of Nigeria would bring to the nation. Perhaps Sharia will be practiced more robustly without the fear of that monster leading the FG now. and also, the Niger deltans might have access to the resources, if the igbos would let them do that.
My conclusion is that while separation might be a great idea theoretically, its practocal implementaion is remotely achievable. What is needed in Nigeria is good governace, justice and accountablity.
Allah ya zaba mana abin da yafi alheri..................... amin
Bissalam

PS: Lionger, your selective synopsis of the pakistani situation is most hypocritical.

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2003, 11:08:40 PM »
Quote
Salam All
I must confess iam replying to this topic even without reading the original post. What really caught my attention was the idea of "separating"  Nigera. in my own thinking such schism will bring nothing but more squalor for the lot of Nigerians.

so you  responded out of pure prejudice, without reading the arguments to digestion?

Offline Muhammad

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2003, 11:23:14 PM »
hajiya fati thanks for the prompt reply.
I wrote to register my protest against such a thought. and i am sure one is entitled to his prejudices or not?
Kapish. .
Bissalam
Allah ya sawwake

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2003, 11:30:44 PM »
Quote
I wrote to register my protest against such a thought. and i am sure one is entitled to his prejudices or not?

That is right!! especially when you make sense and out of fair hearing from both sides.

Offline admin

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2003, 11:43:23 PM »
Assalamu alaikum;
fati,

This is a little off topic, but I will like to take this opportunity to invite you and other guest to become a registered users of this forum please. This will help in our pursuit of creating a great forum full of useful discussions.

Haza wasalam,
Kaini Kano ko a buhun barkono!!!

Offline lionger

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2003, 12:20:27 AM »
Amin,

Lol what on earth are you talking about my friend? What do u mean? Did u even read al hamza's post, which I responded to? In the U.S. there are serious arguments over all the money being poured into the military at the expense of health care and education. Isn't that what I'm saying here? Isn't it a shame that a country has nucelar capabilities and yet 50% of the people can't read, and the majority are poor? Of course it can be explained (nuclear neighbor India), but is this the right situation for a muslim nation Amin?

If you're saying i'm selective cuz i chose only the bad aspects of pakistan and left the good (i guess that would be its 'growing' economy') then lets hear it; if not ur post leaves me hanging. I doubt u even know where i was coming from when i said that.

Offline Humrah

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2003, 11:01:54 AM »
Waziri, Sir, I am with the crowd here. Though Nigeria is not my country but I think it should stay the way it is.

Offline Waziri

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2003, 06:18:44 PM »
The laconic Humrah and Amin,

I believe this  should be a sort of intellectual discourse where one is supposed to read an argument, digest it and appreciate by way of agreeing or disagreeing.

I am not imposing my opinions on anybody but yet I insist that the arguments I raised must be proven to be without any substance first before I should be expected to agree.

The ultimate question is according to your knowledge K-onliners, do u think that EU will form just one country, with one single president , with all the powers like it is now in Nigeria? Tell me no please, and I will tell you that EU is not an example that suits the details of this discourse.

 Especially when we consider the fact that Scotland is today trying to gain its independence from Britain and Germany is enacting new laws that says: if one can prove genetically his/her Germanity from anywhere across the globe, that person will be awarded German citizenship.

Let you guys tell me that the problems with the structure as I have highlighted is not tenable and that with some debunking points.

Let you tell me that the present structure does not give much room for the manipulations of the emotions of the masses.

Let you tell me it DOES give the elite chance to work, contrary to my postulations.

Tell me that if we continue to stay together their is chance that we can transcend those bariers. And that of course with some valid postulations.

Then and only then I will find reason to pursue this discourse.

But here we have Amin saying EU, ECOWAS etc. Afterall he knows very well that, in life one is not suppose to just proceed and be doing things just for the simple reason that others are doing it like  a fashion.

No, life, in its sociology, economy and politics is not like fashion which can be worn only to beautify one self. But life means, to live on, to survive.

Offline EMTL

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2004, 06:29:26 PM »
Assalamu alaikum,
By and large, Nigeria is a complex and blessed country. We are lucky our fore-fathers/mothers were very prayerful otherwise we would have become another Rwanda sort-up.

Do you agree with me that:

1. Nigeria is cursed by having two resources, viz: Oil and O......?
2. The wild-wild West will remain wild forever, it seems,
3. The united-in-intent-but-divided-in-focus-East will continue to allow itself to be used and be detroyed by a join-venture between itself and the West,
4. The North will continue to pay the price of being complecent and having selfish leaders, but by Allah's willing things will change.


Let us all continue to pray to Allah (SWT) to guide and protect our Nigeria from some of us within.
I dont expect to be believed.

Wassalamu alaikum
In the Affairs of People Fear Allah (SWT). In the Matters Relating to Allah (SWT) Do not be Afraid of Anybody. Ibn Katthab (RA).

Offline DanBanza

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2004, 07:28:46 PM »
My lengthy reply was killed by clicking on the RESET button!! Grrrrrhhh!
 :( :-/

I will invest some time again when I have summoned enough will.  ;D
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Offline EMTL

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2004, 01:19:18 PM »
Assalamu alaikum,
DBZ, I think we have enough of this. But DBZ you close or re-open the discussion.

EMTL
In the Affairs of People Fear Allah (SWT). In the Matters Relating to Allah (SWT) Do not be Afraid of Anybody. Ibn Katthab (RA).

Offline Waziri

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Re: Nigeria: The Unhappy Marriage of The Quadruple
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2004, 12:32:46 PM »
DanBanza,

I really am waiting for your reply pls, you surely  know what it means to discuss.

 


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