Wow! What a time to come back here!

[Dave_McEwan_Hill]

Mlbash

I think you should read my post again.
With 15 years living in an Islamic society and Islamic relatives I have every respect for Islam. But I have no respect for idiots who rampage about foreign cities giving Islam a bad name.
The publishing of these cartoon had nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity but there are some Moslems who spend their whole lives looking for any excuse to attack Christians.
Fortunately there are many Moslems and many Christians who try to have good relations and this is very true where I come from where we have Moslems elected to our town councils and to Parliament.

The new photos from Abu Gharaib and the disgusting behaviour just exposed of British troops in Basra are of much more concern.

[mallamt]

mlbash wrote

WOW WOW WOW! WHAT I'M I MISSING HERE? MALLAMT, MR. ADMIN HAS EVERY RIGHT TO REGULATE AND SUPERVISE WHAT GOES ON IN THIS FORUM

You obviously have not read much on what I have had to say about the actions of admin so you speak out of ignorance. The prerogative of a thread being closed lies with the admin and this has been alluded to in other posts by myself and you would have seen that if you had gone through them.  The issue was with the manner and or process that this is done, so you saying that the admin has every right to regultate and supervise what goes on in this forum is a mute point and does not even warrant raising.
mlbash further said

PLEASE FORGIVE MY INTRUSION HERE BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT ISLAM UNLIKE CHRISTIANITY HAS IT'S NORMS AND VALUES, PLEASE YOU SHOLD LEARN TO RESPECT THIS VALUES BEFORE YOU UNDERSTAND ISLAM,

Now I am not sure whether this statement was made out of ignorance or arrogance.  In the first instance mlbash is definately an illitrate of christianity for him to suggest that it has no norms and values, he should withdraw the statement and appologise to the members of the faith because that is an offending statement to make.  Secondly how can mlbash expect to have the values of his faith respected when he is not willing to respect the values of other faiths like christianity?

I hope mlbash does develop respect for other faiths for that is the only way a matured and peaceful discussion can take place

[Jack Fulcher]

I understand that at least 15 people were killed in riots about these cartoons in Nigeria today or yesterday.  Where is Maiduguri?  Is it near Kano?  I hope none of our friends on this board was involved.  What a sad event.  Jack

[lionger]

:cry: Jack, Maiduguri is in the far north-eastern part of Nigeria, and along with the rest of the North has a majority muslim populace. I guess it was only a matter of time before we followed suit in the general madness  :cry:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4728616.stm

Nigeria cartoon protests kill 16

Sixteen people have been killed in northern Nigeria during protests by Muslims over the cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad.
Most of the deaths occurred in rioting in Maiduguri, capital of north-eastern Borno state. One person died in similar riots in north-central Katsina state.

Witnesses said most of the dead were from Maiduguri's minority Christians.

The cartoonist whose cartoons sparked off the worldwide riots told a Scottish newspaper he had "no regrets".

The riots in Nigeria are the first violent protests in the country over the cartoons.

Eleven churches were torched during the protests and Christian businesses targeted.

The country is nearly equally split between Muslims in the north and Christians.

Violent protests

The BBC's Alex Last in northern Nigeria says the protest had begun peacefully in Maiduguri, and it was not clear what started the violence.

The city's residents described demonstrators running wild after police tried to disperse the protest with teargas.

Crowds of protesters carried machetes, sticks and iron rods through the city centre, the Associated Press news agency reported.

One group threw a tyre around one man, poured gas on him and set him ablaze, it said.

Christian leader Joseph Hayab told Reuters agency that most of those who died had been Christians.

"The Muslim group came out to protest and the security forces tried to ensure it was peaceful, but there were some hoodlums in the crowd and somehow the security forces shot one or two of them," said Mr Hayab.

"They went on the rampage, burning shops and churches of the Christians. The protesters killed the others. Some were even killed in the churches."

Soldiers have been deployed and a curfew imposed. Around 115 people were arrested in Maiduguri and 105 in Katsina.

Borno state governor Modu Sheriff said the state "was shocked and disgusted" by "the civil disturbance" in Maiduguri.

Nigeria has witnessed sectarian violence in the past, and the concern now is that the violence does not spread to other cities, our correspondent says.

"No regrets"

Meanwhile the Danish cartoonist whose cartoons provoked the outcry said he did not regret drawing them or having them published.

Kurt Westergaard told the Scottish newspaper, the Glasgow Herald, the cartoons were inspired by "terrorism - which gets its spiritual ammunition from Islam".

Mr Westergaard has gone into hiding since a Pakistani cleric offered a bounty for his death.

The cartoons, first published by Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September and later reprinted by several other European publications, have angered Muslims across the world and sparked sometimes violent protests.

In Libya, at least 10 people died in clashes with police outside an Italian mission on Friday, during a rally over an Italian minister's decision to put the cartoons on T-shirts.

The minister, Roberto Calderoli has resigned, and Libya's interior minister has been suspended as the country investigates the violence.

Again, misdirected rage at the Christian community and very needless loss of life. With the lessons learned from the Miss World fiasco this nonsense should have been nipped in the bud at the preliminary stages by the govt :evil: !

Meanwhile look at what the Jyllands-Posten cartoonist is saying. People all over the world have died over his insensitive and ill-advised protrayal of their religion and he still has no regrets?? And what on earth was the Italian minister Calderoni thinking?? Honestly ppl on both sides need to learn propriety and sensitivity in criticism; all this "free speech" and "you insulted my religion" posturing isn't going to cut it.  :(

[Dave_McEwan_Hill]

Can anyone explain to me why Christians in Nigeria who had nothing whatever to do with cartoons published in a Danish magazine were attacked and killed. This has happened in several Moslem parts of the world- Christians attacked by mobs for something that had nothing to do with them or with Christianity.

[mlbash]

AS I ALWAYS SAID; THIS IS A FREE WORLD EVERYBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY HIS MIND, BUT IF YOU REASON WITH ME CRITICALLY I WAS SOUNDING HARSH, REALLY AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE WAY THE CHRISTIANS TALK ON THE ISSUE CONCERNING ISLAM.
MY POINT; ISLAM UNLIKE CHRISTIANITY I BELIEVED SHOULD HAVE BEEN; IN ISLAM UNLIKE IN CHRISTIANITY. NOW MY POINT IS REFERING TO THE ULTERATIONS IN CHRISTIANITY THUS; OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW TESTAMENT. AS AGAINST ISLAM, HOLY QURAN IS ONE AND ONLY RIGHT FROM THE TIME OF THE RASUL(PBUH) TO DATE.
AND SORRY TO SAY THIS TO ALL THE CHRISTIANS IN THIS FORUM; AS AGAINST MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS DO ALOT OF THINGS AGAINST THEIR RELIGION AND YET REMAIN FOREFRONTERS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CHURCHES.
NOW WHEN I SAID NORMS AND VALUES IN ISLAM, I BELIEVED THE TRUE BELIEVERS IN ISLAM KNEW WHAT I MEANT; NO HUMAN ON EARTH CAN GIVE JUDGEMENT OR CONDUCT AN ACT AGAINST THE TEACHING OF ISLAM, WITHOUT TEMPERING WITH HIS FAITH(IMAN)
THEREFORE FOR ALL THAT SEEM UPSET WITH MY POST ABOVE, REASON NOW AND UNDERSTAND MY POINT OF VIEW. AS I SAID; NO CHRISTIAN IS IN THE POSITION TO DISCUSS ISLAM WITHOUT RESPECTING THE STATED ISLAMIC CONCEPTS.
MR.DAVE, JACK AND SAMMY, I HOPE YOU'LL REASON WITH ME NOW, IT WASN'T MY INTENTION TO HURT YOUR FEELINGS ONLY TRIED TO SAY THE RIGHT THING SO THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER INTELLECTUALLY AND MATURELY.

[mlbash]

Admin

why are you threatening us like this? you probably will want to consider closing this site!!! please read what people are saying about the subject matter and if in your own opinion the matter should not be discussed put it to forumnites to vote or if the tone and or structure is not acceptable lay out specific guidelines to discuss the issue, I can assure most forumnites will comply and if one does not he will be reprimanded and if it continues it will be understood when you close the thread and I am sure it no one will be interested in revisiting the issue

MALLAMT, YOU MAY BE A FREE THINKER, BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT SOMETIME DIALOGUE IS WASTE OF TIME HENCE, IF WE CAN NOT DISCUSS ISSUES RELATING TO RELIGION INTELECTUALLY THEN, I THINK WHAT MR. ADMIN DID WAS THE BEST![/color]

[mallamt]

MALLAMT, YOU MAY BE A FREE THINKER, BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT SOMETIME DIALOGUE IS WASTE OF TIME HENCE, IF WE CAN NOT DISCUSS ISSUES RELATING TO RELIGION INTELECTUALLY THEN, I THINK WHAT MR. ADMIN DID WAS THE BEST

What (excuse my language) rubbish!!!!! What does my being a christian/muslim or free thinker have to do with anything here?  why don't you try and be relevant?  So you say that dialogue is a waste of time two questions for you 1) why provide a platform for it? 2) who decides when a dialogue is a waste of time in a public forum?

now mlbash what is this contradiction (mlbash wrote)

AS I ALWAYS SAID; THIS IS A FREE WORLD EVERYBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY HIS MIND,

hmm I will say this is from a confused mind saying one thing one moment and saying another the very next minute - please be consistent.

Mlbash wrote

BUT IF YOU REASON WITH ME CRITICALLY I WAS SOUNDING HARSH, REALLY AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE WAY THE CHRISTIANS TALK ON THE ISSUE CONCERNING ISLAM.

MY POINT; ISLAM UNLIKE CHRISTIANITY I BELIEVED SHOULD HAVE BEEN; IN ISLAM UNLIKE IN CHRISTIANITY. NOW MY POINT IS REFERING TO THE ULTERATIONS IN CHRISTIANITY THUS; OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW TESTAMENT. AS AGAINST ISLAM, HOLY QURAN IS ONE AND ONLY RIGHT FROM THE TIME OF THE RASUL(PBUH) TO DATE.

Now when were you (mlbash) a christian to know all what you are putting forward here about christianity? what do you know about christianity apart from what you jave been feed by some anti christian books, thinkers or speakers?  Are you not doing to christians exactly what you are accussing christians of doing to islam? or are you justified in doing it to christians?

AND SORRY TO SAY THIS TO ALL THE CHRISTIANS IN THIS FORUM; AS AGAINST MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS DO ALOT OF THINGS AGAINST THEIR RELIGION AND YET REMAIN FOREFRONTERS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CHURCHES.

hmm I do not know what world you come from, where do you put Osama, Al Zaqwari, those that brain wash and send sucide bombers in the name of islam around the world killing innocent women and children? or are you saying they are doing nothing wrong or are they not muslims and front runners of islam? (T-shirts are even made honouring and glorifing some of these people, what would you say if americans start making T-shirts and memorabilia glorifying Bush or western leaders for the killing of muslims - anyway different subject matter).  Be very carful saying things you have no clue about obviously you are very ignorant about the christian faith yet you want to say something about it

HOLY QURAN IS ONE AND ONLY RIGHT FROM THE TIME OF THE RASUL(PBUH) TO DATE.

I suggest you do not bring this up for discussion, we can not take the subject matter in this thread.

[lionger]

mlbash,
I'm disappointed in your response. I was hoping you would douse the ensueing fire by simply saying your Christianity remark was a result of a typo. Instead you have further corroborated it, thereby making matters worse. As such I believe you are more than obligated to proving your statements, if not they qualify as slander. To be honest your second post makes for difficult reading and doesn't make a lot of sense:

MY POINT; ISLAM UNLIKE CHRISTIANITY I BELIEVED SHOULD HAVE BEEN; IN ISLAM UNLIKE IN CHRISTIANITY

Allright, let's make the requisite changes to the original post and spot the difference:

PLEASE FORGIVE MY INTRUSION HERE BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT IN ISLAM UNLIKE IN CHRISTIANITY HAS IT'S NORMS AND VALUES, PLEASE YOU SHOLD LEARN TO RESPECT THIS VALUES BEFORE YOU UNDERSTAND ISLAM,

Spot the difference, Mlbash. Apart from the fact that the latter statement is now grammatically incorrect, what else is there?

Now I would like for you mlbash to answer these questions expressly:

1) What does the insulting cartoons in the European press have to do with Christianity, for which you and others have slandered the faith on this thread? Are Denmark and all the other offending European countries 'Christian' countries? I have asked Husnaa and Ummita the same question but am yet to receive a reply.
In case you didn't notice, you never responded to the precise issue at hand. You said that us 'christians' shouldn't discuss Islamic issues without according proper respect, yet you fail to do just that. Rather, you then began to criticise Christianity. Please show us on this thread where Christians were discussing the issue without understanding Islam or according proper respect (note I said 'christians"). Which leads me to my second point:

2) Since you refuse to back down from your stance on Christianity, I would like to see you prove your position on a separate thread. Not posting of lengthy articles written by others, just simply you posting passages from the Old and New Testaments to corroborate your claim, (much like Barde and Waziri did in my discussions with them), and I will do likewise. I assume this should be no problem for you, since you are obviously very well acquainted with the Bible and have read it from cover to cover. If you choose not to accept the challenge, then you are showing yourself to be a hypocrite as well as ignorant of the subject you then proceed to lambast, and therefore shoud simply tender an apology.


3) Please read this link and tell us in your informed islamic opinion, whether this is right.
http://odili.net/news/source/2006/feb/20/802.html

[admin]

For the reason(s) I have enumerated earlier, this thread is now closed!
and yes Wow! What a time to come back here

Welcome Back Jack Fulcher!.