Religious Crisis: The Role of Ethic Minorities

[Bajoga]

I find this discourse painful.

So do I

Siyasar Kare-Kare, Aunty!!!   :D.

[Muhsin]

Usman11,

I felt I was reading a different thread. Any way, I will, inshaAllah, respond to your (initial) question to me when I get back.

Carry-on big fellows. Enjoyed my reading of your commendable posts--Waduz and Usman11.

[HUSNAA]

I find this discourse painful.

So do I

Siyasar Kare-Kare, Aunty!!!   :D.

BJG, mecece siyarsar kare-kare kuma?

[Muhsin]

So my question then (if we are to be fair as Muhsin demanded) who has been responsible for the many outbreak of religious violence in Nigeria? Is it the animists? Is it the Christians? Is it the Krishna's?

Usman11,

I perused your well-written response as well as the question you posed. Very constructive. I had to say so, although it's hard to praise a 'foe' especially on battle field.  ;D

Following that, I went over my Peace and Conflict Resolution textbook and read it, though very quickly, for I feel it 'neccessary' to come up here and reply, after a short absent of two days. There I read about major conflicts since the 1980s, which is barely a span of three decades. I quite know some of these violents were under-reported or unreported at all.

What I so far understand (I'm trying to be as unbiasedly as possible) is;

1st;
Nigerian medias have lots to sholder. Media, as a double-edge tool, can help in either cooling off the conflict or escalating it. To sudai Nigerian ones, due to their unprofessionalism, help always in doing the latter--instigating and escalating it. Too bad.

2nd;
Muslims are not guiltier in kicking-off disputes than non-Muslims. They are, in fact, not even that guilty except on a very few cases, contrary to your aimless and baseless accusation against us.

Exapmle include; Muslims backlash following Kaffanchan genocide of Muslims, another one in Kano after ethno-religious massacre of Hausa/Muslims at Yelwa-Sheldam, Shagamu upheaval, clash between Muslims and Christians over "Miss World" beauty pageant slated to be held in Abuja, which was ignited by This Day newspaper, to mention but few. You too talked about Gedion, you called him? Who descreted on the sacred Quranic papers.

What I just believe is that; we might be aptly only be charged for "religious intolerence". And that, simply put, means our "retaliatory action" or "responsive" one towards provocative and thoughtless action always perpetuated by non-Muslims, e.g aforesaid cited examples, etc, etc, etc.

We always say; leave our prophet alone. He's unjokable, untouchable, leaveable and everything. We never toy niether we do tolerate anyone making fun of him. And so is our Qur'an and so on. But you never listen. Why? This is whats mostly degenerating conflicts between us.

Am afraid my time is draining away. Have to stop here. Sorry for my "laconic" reply. Think it says something.

Ciao!

Muhsin

[usman11]

Thank you Muhsin for your observation, and for your compliments. Thanks also for rejoining this dialogue even though you and EMTL had issued a joint statement of boycott previously. You can see through my exchange with Waduz that open and honest dialogue can lead to better relations bordering on understanding and mutual respect. I said before that such dialogue is lacking in Nigeria because people are so opposed to confronting difficult issues with sincerity. Others are too unwilling to leave their comfort zones to step out to unfamiliar frontiers.
I am not sure what to make of some individuals that expressed their pain over this dialogue. I would however advice those people suffering from pain that they do have a choice, and that it might be in their best interest not to read or participate in this discourse if doing so compromises their mental, phsysical, emotional, or spiritual health. They are not compelled to read anything here, and there is no law that mandates their participation in this discussion. If after this disclaimer is issued, they continue to read and their pain condition worsens and leads to death, neither Waduz nor myself can be held responsible for their demise. I think I've said enough about that, and therefore I shall move on.

According to your research, the one that goes back 30 years, you only found two incidents of religious disturbances? And those two were in the 80s? Right there, your claim lack credibility because the figures you've produced are grossly inaccurate.  A fairer estimation of religious conflict is in the neighborhood of at least 1 per year. And no, I did not bring up the example to Gideon Akuluka. Waduz raised raised that issue but could not even recall the facts of the story, and we are still not sure. I do recall however several the claims made by the participant Muslims as to what ignited the conflict. One account claims that Mr. Akuluka drove over the Koran. Another claims he simply crapped on the Koran. Now, Mr. Akuluka should know better than to disrespect something that Muslims hold in such high regard. But like I said earlier, and you should pay attention to what I say, we are supposed to be a nation of laws arent we?
Our constitution is what we are governed by not the laws of the Koran, or of the Bible, or laws of any other religion. If someone breaks the law, then our laws should apply. What the Muslims did on that occassion was commit genocide, because their rage went beyond punishing Mr. Akuluka for his transgressions. They went on a killing spree which claimed no less that 300 lives. So you tell me, what exactly did mass murder of innocent people achieve? To think that you can even justify such horror is troubling. Why did 300-500 innocent people have to die for the 'sin' of one individual? Does that make any sense? 

One of the things I have a problem coming to grips with is your casual justification of violence for any
unflaterring remarks about your prophet. You practicall equate your Prophet to God in terms of what is acceptable reference to him and what is not. The young reporter whose article over the Miss Universe beauty peagent sparked yet again, a religious incident, had written a piece in the magazine she worked for in which she opined that Prophet Mohammed would have approved of the beauty contest. What followed was fanatical chaos that resulted in hundreds of dead bodies. Again, the comments of one person, yet hundreds of non involved individuals lost their lives, and the responsible elements face no consequence. So, my question is this, what purpose do these killings and destruction accomplish? Is this all to appease the Prophet. Are you telling me that if the Prophet could witness what is being done in his name, he would approve of these events?

Let me give you another recent example. Last year or so, Danish cartoonists decided to create a cartoon of the Prophet. As usual, the cartoon caught the attention of some very angry Muslims, and it went downhill from there. Somehow, some Nigerian Muslims from the north overzealously ignited a religious riot that again claimed the lives of hundreds of innocent people that had nothing with Denmark or Muslims, or even the cartoons. What was the excuse this time? If their action as you say is retaliatory, why didn't the aggrieved muslims charter a plane and travel to Denmark? I am hoping you can explain this.
   

[Lawwali]

Assalam

I want Believe EMTL, the initiator of this thread hoped that an avenue will be provided by this forum to dwell on this social problem with the aim of putting heads together for a lasting solution. But it appears that some members were just given an opportunity to air their grievances and apportion blame. Their submissions looks much like that of an aggrieved party giving an account before constituted panel to investigate the crisis.
It appears more to me as if some wants use this medium to say what they want to say against ones religion. It is pathetic, and i condemned in strong terms the mis use of this forum by the partisan contributors to the debate.
If and end will not be put to this character assasination, then, one will insult the other's religion. And the whole essence of this forum has been grossly undermined.

I However commends the logic of Good fellows: like the initiator-EMTL, Dave_Mc ewan_Hill.

[Muhsin]

Thank you Muhsin for your observation, and for your compliments. Thanks also for rejoining this dialogue even though you and EMTL had issued a joint statement of boycott previously. You can see through my exchange with Waduz that open and honest dialogue can lead to better relations bordering on understanding and mutual respect. I said before that such dialogue is lacking in Nigeria because people are so opposed to confronting difficult issues with sincerity. Others are too unwilling to leave their comfort zones to step out to unfamiliar frontiers.

Thank you too.

I am not sure what to make of some individuals that expressed their pain over this dialogue. I would however advice those people suffering from pain that they do have a choice, and that it might be in their best interest not to read or participate in this discourse if doing so compromises their mental, phsysical, emotional, or spiritual health. They are not compelled to read anything here, and there is no law that mandates their participation in this discussion. If after this disclaimer is issued, they continue to read and their pain condition worsens and leads to death, neither Waduz nor myself can be held responsible for their demise. I think I've said enough about that, and therefore I shall move on.

Your trickery and sophistry fascinate me. You infact had me laughing, thinking at how these fellows you kid might have reacted to your 'lamblast'.  ;D

According to your research, the one that goes back 30 years, you only found two incidents of religious disturbances? And those two were in the 80s? Right there, your claim lack credibility because the figures you've produced are grossly inaccurate.  A fairer estimation of religious conflict is in the neighborhood of at least 1 per year. And no, I did not bring up the example to Gideon Akuluka. Waduz raised raised that issue but could not even recall the facts of the story, and we are still not sure. I do recall however several the claims made by the participant Muslims as to what ignited the conflict. One account claims that Mr. Akuluka drove over the Koran. Another claims he simply crapped on the Koran. Now, Mr. Akuluka should know better than to disrespect something that Muslims hold in such high regard. But like I said earlier, and you should pay attention to what I say, we are supposed to be a nation of laws arent we?
Our constitution is what we are governed by not the laws of the Koran, or of the Bible, or laws of any other religion. If someone breaks the law, then our laws should apply. What the Muslims did on that occassion was commit genocide, because their rage went beyond punishing Mr. Akuluka for his transgressions. They went on a killing spree which claimed no less that 300 lives. So you tell me, what exactly did mass murder of innocent people achieve? To think that you can even justify such horror is troubling. Why did 300-500 innocent people have to die for the 'sin' of one individual? Does that make any sense? 

I found many, actually. I just lack enough time at my disposal to talk at that length--expatiating on the cause, the consequences, the culprit, etc of each violence I read about. Didn't I write et cetera? Think I do, right.

And regarding that Mr Akuluka stuff, I don't give a damned what he did. You too, I very much think and even understand, believe that what he did was unwarranted and uncalled for. He in one way or the other carelessly defamed and marginalised Qur'an. to put it in lesser degree. Then, what these Muslims did was right.

You talked of Nigerian system of law, i.e constitution. I don't think we should wait for that. LOL ;D He would only be put behind bars for few days. The other days you would see him walking, even with pride, on the streets. Tell me pls, whats the use of that?

One of the things I have a problem coming to grips with is your casual justification of violence for any
unflaterring remarks about your prophet. You practicall equate your Prophet to God in terms of what is acceptable reference to him and what is not. The young reporter whose article over the Miss Universe beauty peagent sparked yet again, a religious incident, had written a piece in the magazine she worked for in which she opined that Prophet Mohammed would have approved of the beauty contest. What followed was fanatical chaos that resulted in hundreds of dead bodies. Again, the comments of one person, yet hundreds of non involved individuals lost their lives, and the responsible elements face no consequence. So, my question is this, what purpose do these killings and destruction accomplish? Is this all to appease the Prophet. Are you telling me that if the Prophet could witness what is being done in his name, he would approve of these events?

What Muslims tried doing was burning down the building of the newspaper, which their action did aptly call for. And in the course of doing so the violence erupted.

Let me tell you, no religion will ever condone such marginalisation and defamation. None on this earth. Thus, even the prophet would approve of our retaliatory action.

Let me give you another recent example. Last year or so, Danish cartoonists decided to create a cartoon of the Prophet. As usual, the cartoon caught the attention of some very angry Muslims, and it went downhill from there. Somehow, some Nigerian Muslims from the north overzealously ignited a religious riot that again claimed the lives of hundreds of innocent people that had nothing with Denmark or Muslims, or even the cartoons. What was the excuse this time? If their action as you say is retaliatory, why didn't the aggrieved muslims charter a plane and travel to Denmark? I am hoping you can explain this.

This very issue had had been intensively discussed on many discussion fora. There are great number of non-Muslims who denounced that bastard cartoonist and the newspaper that published it. Thats one.

Secondly, we had no means to have our voice heard except via riot. So does the law also aprove, I am sure. And so we did. And you don't have to point an accusation finger at us for the outbreak of the violence here. Thats the true habit of Nigerians--we don't know how to carry-out peacefull demonstartion. It always lead to something else.

Think have to stop here. Sorry if my replies occasioned pain to anyone. Unnintentional.

And to you, Usman11, its been interesting talking with you. Have learnt a lot as I'm sure you too have learned something from me. Thank you very much. And I darned well know; whatsoever I'll have to say (more) will not as it cannot 'change' your view of the Muslims. That reminds me of one saying; nobody can be free of enmity. So we cannot be free, also.

Wish you all the best.

Muhsin

[Dave_McEwan_Hill]

Very disappointing reaction, Muhsin

Where does it say that it is okay to riot and kill innocent people? It certainly doesn't say it in the Bible and I'm sure it doesn't say it in the Koran. Religion of peace?

[Nuruddeen]

Now, the idea that the presence of multiple Churches in Kano point to the people's tolerant characteristic is not an accurate assessment of tolerance. If there is religious freedom as you say, then religious centers are likely to exist because they law allows them to operate. So this has nothing to do with tolerance. The churches are simply exercising their right to function. You measure religious intolerance by the number of religious incidents in an area, and by identifying the culprits of those incidents. In reference to Gideaon Akulaka, the Muslims acted irresponsibly and should be held to account. As you say, this individual maligned the Koran. Maybe he even insulted the Prophet, but what happend thereafter? 100 people or more lost their lives for something they had no part in. Do you not see the problem with that? Why not sue Akaluka for defamation? Why not just run him out of town and ordered never to return? Why commit genocide? why not just settle grievance in our court system, and if we feel we need to amend the constitution to safeguard religious icons, why not do it through the legislature? Is that not the proper an sensible way to handle things?

My dear  Usman 11, ur writeup is quite appealing and straight to the point, but it's as well incisive. You raised questions as to why Muslims should engage in killing almost 100 ppl in the case of Gideon. You also suggested some measures on what they should have done or taken. " Why not sue Akaluka for defamation? Why not just run him out of town and ordered never to return? Why commit genocide? why not just settle grievance in our court system, and if we feel we need to amend the constitution to safeguard religious icons, why not do it through the legislature? Is that not the proper an sensible way to handle things? (Sic).

However, my question to you is: Have yu ever heard any muslim brother insulting prophet Jesus? Have you ever seen an instance where Muslims oblige anybody to accept or follow their religion? I have never seen any Muslim yet;knocking at ones doostep to give him pamphlet and force him/her to spare time for words of God so-called.

I think your misconception about the religion is what I believe the reason behind your lengthy but empty assertions.

On the issue of education and leadership in Nigeria to which you blamed the north, this I agree somehow. But the fact of the matter remains: You need to really get informed about the peaceful bases of Islam as a religion.

Nura.

[Sani Danbaffa]

 May God save Nigeria from itself! Northern Nigeria has a long hatred planted by the lowly and asumed downtroden It is ashame how a people who abandon themselves, who are not proud of their past becouse it is nothing to be proud of, who can not live within their roots because they still practice adashi with worthy "highly achieved" own natives lives and they look elsewhere for their problems. Tell me any well to do merchant among the Afezeres Katafs, Kutebs what have you! They may be well educated but not in any way knowlegeable for wisdom flows from a knowledgeable but not an educated mind!

The problem is neither religious nor political, it is simple hatred pure and simple. See nothing will make a person in diaspora to see good reason at all, afterall he abandoned his roots! If he has achieved anything, I challenge Usman11 angulu da kan zabo to show clearly what he has done in or for his people! Qaryar banza, he can not live anywhere near his village that is if his parents or sibling even benefit from him at all. He has mentioned about his so called Prof brother, thank God he is in America! Why can't a Hausa man get the same treatment yet get elected as OBAMA was in smal JOS!

I monitored a BBC programme where Robert Walker interviewed a high government official who said "the Hausas must know there are no go areas in Plateau, otherwise the violence will continue"! it is only in Kano that anybody could rise to become anybody!

Go and check the Federal Character and see the statistics are there, those guys benefit so much from the government such that they can not do anything once they leave government service. Even the religion they claim to follow or fight for is all flowery look at them, get close to them you soon know what they really are! Htred..... pure and simple and a h mind full of hatred understands nothing. Allah kiyaye.

Americans have shown the way for the world to follow!

[usman11]

Nurudeen, I am honestly not misinformed about Islam. I am interested in seeing more of that peaceful side of Islam, and wish that peaceful side of Islam would always prevail before people take matters into their hands and commit very atrocious and inhuman acts. If you pay close attention to my write ups here, you'll notice that I have not layed any blame on Islam for the actions of some very depraved and sadistic individuals. I have focused my attention on those guilty northern Muslim radicals that constantly engage in genocidal activities each time they feel their religion has been ridiculed. My views in no way indicts Islam. My views are critical of those Muslims in the north that instigate this repeat aggression against their neighbors. I think my commentary shows a clear distinction between Islam and fanatical Muslims.
There is a significant Muslim population in Lagos, Ogun, Oshun, and other Western and Southern Nigerian states, yet they hardly lose sleep over the very things that sets off a religious confrontation in the north. If this is not a problem, then you guys are living in denial. You cannot solve a problem by ignoring, denying, or even rationalizing it. This is why this problem persists, and this is why we are having this debate.

Nurudeen, the question of whether or not I have heard a Muslim brother insult Prophet Jesus is really not the issue. The issue is about violent confrontations inspired by religious zealotry. Regardless of who or what insults what, the fact is, we are human beings not ANIMALS. We live in a nation of laws, and people should never take laws into their hands or else the atmosphere will becomes chaotic. But going back to the reference about Jesus, as a religious icon, Jesus is perhaps the most ridiculed, most violated, most studied, and perhaps most despised figure. Not too long ago, a broadway director produced a play where Jesus was portrayed as homosexual. This play drew very strong criticism from Christian organizations natiowide. When the show premiered on broadway, both aetheists and christians stood at opposing sides with placards denouncing or supporting the play. For many Christians, this show was very hurtful, yet they chose to pray for those blasphamous people. Thereafter, everyone went home. That to me was a very civilized way to handle discord from both sides. The aetheists did infact conduct themselves accordingly as well even though I disagreed with what they did.

So my point is, violence is not the only method by which we can express our displeasure when aggrieved. Take for example the riots that followed the Danish Cartoon, there were demonstrations in many parts of World against what Muslims viewed as an insult to their Prophet. The point was made, but it was only in northern Nigeria that demonstrations became deadly. Maybe human life has little value to you, but to me, the life of an innocent person is of the greatest value, and it is not for any psychopath to carelessly put an end to out of blind hate.

Sani Danbaffa, I am not sure what you are blabbing about. I am not sure what you think you can contribute to this dialogue, but just in case you do not properly comprehend things, let it be known to you, that this discourse is not about me, or about personality. This discussion is about religious violence in Nigeria, and it will do you a lot of good if you keep your flippant commentaries within the context of the dialogue. I am not here to advertise myself. I have not claimed to have superior intelligence or any intelligence at all. If it makes you happy, you are smarter than I am, and your education surpasses mine a hundred times. So there you have it. Are you satisfied? You'll notice how Nurudeen, Muhsin, Waduz, and myself have advanced this dialogue carefully and progressively. I think there are potentials for some breakthrough here, and I would rather engage these fine gentlemen in more constructive dialogue going forward. Thanks anyway for your input.

[Sani Danbaffa]

Thank you very much gentlemen for the prolonged dialogue on such a hot but fetish issue? May I ask a sincere question?  What is the real reason for the Etnic Minorities hatred for the so called Ethnic majority? To my mind, the reason is simple, in their iddleness, the so called majority have florished and become so "wealthy" and you know too well "zuciyar mai tsumma.... a kusa ta ke! So they adopt the a fasa kowa ya rasa attitude. Please recall the not so few riots in Kaduna for instance, the Jarman Kano, a philantrophist known to all, who developed a certain area, employed several natives and improved their lives, was paid by the same "worthy citizens" in bad coin! They burnt his assets (estate and Hotel) in their town.

In the Jukun riots, late Dan Adalen Kano Alh Tsoho Tofa's rice farm almost due for harvest, was burnt to ashes! Haba jama'a! I still insist, may I know any ethnic minority that has done anything worty of mention to the benefit of anybody even among his own people? Travel in their land and find out. I tell you I traversed the length and bredth of most of their areas! They are spotted with uncompleted projects started either by the government or top bras that end up eaten by their own relatives, or by petty communal misunderstanding.

May Allah guide us to greater heights. I promise not talk on this issue any further.

[Bakauye]

SALAM. the discussion is painful and the answers are in Late Yohanna madakis interview of late 80`s or ealier 90`s i should say. there has to be a truce and reconciliation. the roots of the crises were deep inside history, the minorities were maltreated if i should use that word and now they feel liberated so they are taking revenge. peep through history and see the days horses were raiding langtan and other villages, all matured girls are taken away to serve as concubines and healthy young men were taken in chains and sold as slaves. today their great grand childrens are the ones holding guns in various uniforms as police or army officers, and nomatter their ranking, they are been looked down upon and without any economic power. they are taking revenge in the wrong way cos it will not solve the problem. i can still remember what yohanna madaki said in his interview.