Author Topic: Sudan Disaster  (Read 32803 times)

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Offline mallamt

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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2004, 11:54:29 PM »
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Mallamt, I am not sure if you really intend friendship with us around here. You appear to insist we should discuss Dafur. You are trying to read meaning into our freedom of choice not to disscuss it. You are even threading the oblong path of insinuating that the topic makes us uncomfortable.


_Waziri_

I initially wasn't going to respond but then again I thought I should make some things clear to you.  Firstly the topic of this thread is SUDAN DISASTER so what business do you have here if you do not want to discuss that?  Why not just read the threads and leave it alone surely if you have to make a contribution you should make one or two but not tell us not to discuss it or suggest we are being made to discuss it, we came into this thread and out of choice contributed to the subject matter.  No one is forced to contribute but when topics are threaded we expect contributions and when they are not forth coming any one in the forum has the right to question why and encourage contributions and that in no way infringes on the right to choice.  Do you understand the difference my friend?  There is a difference between the freedom of choice not to discuss an issue and the ducking an issue, those that are ducking an issue will always tell you about freedoms or rights or they divert and try to derail the subject matter.  Those who want to exercise their freedom of choice not to contribute may read the threads or may not even visit the topic, but they will not contribute in any way to the topic.
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Now mallamt did anybody question the motive behind why you did not condole and appear sympathetic to us when we lost our father Alhaji Salisu Usman Danyaro? From what kind of planet are you that you do not think it an obligation to identify with others when they are mourning the lost of their loved ones?

Now for a person who is chanting freedom to contribute etc this one blows me! What are you trying to suggest here exactly? If I may ask you how many people or nigerians have you mourned with today and sent them sympathy notes or whatever?  Have you been to your local hospitals etc to mourn with bereaved families?  Or is it that those ones are not important or you do not care?  Does your not mourning or sending sympathy notes/greetings to the hundreds and thousands that are bereaved daily mean you do not care for them?  I am just trying to get the drift of your suggestion.
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OK mallamt we attach alot of maybe's to why you are not identifying with us in that respect and we intend to allow you be. But don't ever deem it necessary to complain again when anybody chose not to respond to anything, right?

You can attach as many maybes as you wish I sure do hope you have enough paper to do so. Who are the "us" you are talking about? As far as I know with respect to my sending/not sending condolence messages you are the only one to comment are you representing anyone or a group of people when you commented?  With regard to my "complaining" it is arrogant of you and an infringement of my own rights to tell me or warn me not to complain when people do not contribute to a topic especially if I want to discuss it where is my own freedom which you seem to eschew in your statement.  Please note that I am not saying people MUST contribute, but if they want to contribute they should do so on the topic of discussion.  You do not go into a mathematics lecture wanting to have a sociology lecture and try to stop the lecture or stop mathmatics questions and or answers because what you wan is sociology.  You go into the mathmatics lecture and contribute on mathematics or keep quite and observe.

Coming back to the question of dafur either you contribute or you keep silent and let those who are discussing it continue

Offline mallamt

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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2004, 12:14:57 AM »
al_hamza

I am not writing this in order to support daves motives or intentions, the reason I think the Dafur issue is here is because it is closer to "home".  That is the way we must see it and discuss it, we should stop being defensive and say what about here there everywhere? Are we saying because attrocites occur in all these other places then it is okay if it occurs in dafur? more than 99% of the matters we discuss here we can not do anything about but our discussion opens up our minds, gives us information or insights we never had on an issue and thus enriches us some of us here in this forum are either in a position to influence policies or would one day be in that position.  we learn things about what and how some of these wars and strife happen so that we know what to do to ensure they do not happen in our own environments.  some of us from these may even end up taking humanitarian duties or jobs in affected areas.  Do not be little the power of information and knowledge.  On the other areas you have mentioned have you considered starting threads on their own issues? Maybe you should I am very sure that you will get contributions from this forum

Offline Barde

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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2004, 01:04:40 AM »
Quote from: "mallamt"
Quote
Mallamt, I am not sure if you really intend friendship with us around here. You appear to insist we should discuss Dafur. You are trying to read meaning into our freedom of choice not to disscuss it. You are even threading the oblong path of insinuating that the topic makes us uncomfortable.


_Waziri_

I initially wasn't going to respond but then again I thought I should make some things clear to you.  Firstly the topic of this thread is SUDAN DISASTER so what business do you have here if you do not want to discuss that?  Why not just read the threads and leave it alone surely if you have to make a contribution you should make one or two but not tell us not to discuss it or suggest we are being made to discuss it, we came into this thread and out of choice contributed to the subject matter.  No one is forced to contribute but when topics are threaded we expect contributions and when they are not forth coming any one in the forum has the right to question why and encourage contributions and that in no way infringes on the right to choice.  Do you understand the difference my friend?  There is a difference between the freedom of choice not to discuss an issue and the ducking an issue, those that are ducking an issue will always tell you about freedoms or rights or they divert and try to derail the subject matter.  Those who want to exercise their freedom of choice not to contribute may read the threads or may not even visit the topic, but they will not contribute in any way to the topic.
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Now mallamt did anybody question the motive behind why you did not condole and appear sympathetic to us when we lost our father Alhaji Salisu Usman Danyaro? From what kind of planet are you that you do not think it an obligation to identify with others when they are mourning the lost of their loved ones?

Now for a person who is chanting freedom to contribute etc this one blows me! What are you trying to suggest here exactly? If I may ask you how many people or nigerians have you mourned with today and sent them sympathy notes or whatever?  Have you been to your local hospitals etc to mourn with bereaved families?  Or is it that those ones are not important or you do not care?  Does your not mourning or sending sympathy notes/greetings to the hundreds and thousands that are bereaved daily mean you do not care for them?  I am just trying to get the drift of your suggestion.
Quote
OK mallamt we attach alot of maybe's to why you are not identifying with us in that respect and we intend to allow you be. But don't ever deem it necessary to complain again when anybody chose not to respond to anything, right?

You can attach as many maybes as you wish I sure do hope you have enough paper to do so. Who are the "us" you are talking about? As far as I know with respect to my sending/not sending condolence messages you are the only one to comment are you representing anyone or a group of people when you commented?  With regard to my "complaining" it is arrogant of you and an infringement of my own rights to tell me or warn me not to complain when people do not contribute to a topic especially if I want to discuss it where is my own freedom which you seem to eschew in your statement.  Please note that I am not saying people MUST contribute, but if they want to contribute they should do so on the topic of discussion.  You do not go into a mathematics lecture wanting to have a sociology lecture and try to stop the lecture or stop mathmatics questions and or answers because what you wan is sociology.  You go into the mathmatics lecture and contribute on mathematics or keep quite and observe.

Coming back to the question of dafur either you contribute or you keep silent and let those who are discussing it continue


Mallamt,

I think what Waziri was trying to tell you is that, as nobody questioned you when you decided not to condole Salisu,
so also you don't have the right to question anybody on why the issue of Dafur has not been discussed.

By the way, what do you think are the wrong signals that would be generated as a result of shying away from the Dafur issue?
im

Offline mallamt

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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2004, 03:37:02 PM »
barde

I do not think that you had to qoute my posting the way you did just to say what you wanted to say.  You are making the thread too long and cumbersom please try to just state your point next time and qoute only if necessary.

I am glad that you seem to be able to read _waziri's_ mind and have given an explanation to his posting.  When I read the second qoute of _waziri's_ posting either as an individual paragraph or in the whole context of the posting, it says a completely different thing from what you are trying to say in your explanetion. Yes nobody questioned me or those of us that did not send condolences yet nobody was stopped from questioning me (us) right?  Everyone in this forum has the right to question why didn't those that did not send messages of condolence send messages, it is not my place to make anybody ask his/her questions I ask mine, why should I or anybody for that matter be responsible for someone else not asking a question that bothers them? So you logic that because no one asked me why I did not send a condolence message so I should not ask why are people not commenting on the Dafur issue is rubbish and childish!  Furthermore, death in especially in natural circumstance in a family is a very personal thing there is no way you can ever try to compare it with a massacer.  It is very rude, an insult for you or anybody to want to compare a personal loss to the massacre of multitudes.  How could you even compare the two events?  what kind of a person are you?  I am very dissapointed in you, you are an embarrasement to all human beings with morals and the fear of God if this is the veiw you hold! So my friend I have every right to question why people are not commenting on the dafur matter, it is a right given to me and every other human being on the face of the planet by God to ask this or any other question, not you or anyone can give or take that right from me.

On what I think the wrong signals are, I will answer you this way do you think  wrong  signals are or may be sent when silence is kept on a topical issue? if not why?

Offline Barde

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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2004, 10:51:27 PM »
Quote from: "mallamt"
barde

I do not think that you had to qoute my posting the way you did just to say what you wanted to say.  You are making the thread too long and cumbersom please try to just state your point next time and qoute only if necessary.

I am glad that you seem to be able to read _waziri's_ mind and have given an explanation to his posting.  When I read the second qoute of _waziri's_ posting either as an individual paragraph or in the whole context of the posting, it says a completely different thing from what you are trying to say in your explanetion. Yes nobody questioned me or those of us that did not send condolences yet nobody was stopped from questioning me (us) right?  Everyone in this forum has the right to question why didn't those that did not send messages of condolence send messages, it is not my place to make anybody ask his/her questions I ask mine, why should I or anybody for that matter be responsible for someone else not asking a question that bothers them? So you logic that because no one asked me why I did not send a condolence message so I should not ask why are people not commenting on the Dafur issue is rubbish and childish!  Furthermore, death in especially in natural circumstance in a family is a very personal thing there is no way you can ever try to compare it with a massacer.  It is very rude, an insult for you or anybody to want to compare a personal loss to the massacre of multitudes.  How could you even compare the two events?  what kind of a person are you?  I am very dissapointed in you, you are an embarrasement to all human beings with morals and the fear of God if this is the veiw you hold! So my friend I have every right to question why people are not commenting on the dafur matter, it is a right given to me and every other human being on the face of the planet by God to ask this or any other question, not you or anyone can give or take that right from me.

On what I think the wrong signals are, I will answer you this way do you think  wrong  signals are or may be sent when silence is kept on a topical issue? if not why?



Haba Mallamt,

Meyayi zafi haka? calm down. It seems you wrongly interpreted what i wrote, i wasnt comparing the death of an individual with those that were masacred in dafur, i was just trying to make you understand that there are so many issues that you did not comment on and no body questioned you.

let me remind you that you were also silent on the issue, Dave posted the topic on 16th june, all you had to say after 15 days was to questioned people on why they didn't contribute, is that not shameful? you were accusing us of keeping silent when you did not say anything.  I expected you to make your contribution before accusing any body of keeping silent.
im

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2004, 11:51:24 PM »
:cry:
The killing in Darfur is continuing. There is no doubt that the Arab-based government of Sudan is attempting Genocide against Sudan's black people. I am glad that Nigeria has offerd to send troops to defend the refugees. I am surprised we are having arguments on Kano Online about trivial things while this goes on. So many Onliners are rightly angered by what Israel is doing to the Palestinians or about America's wicked behaviour in Iraq and Afghanistan and I don't understand why they are silent about the worse things going on very close to Nigeria in Sudan. Has the fact that the evil killers in Sudan (killing both Moslems and Christians) are Moslem confused and embarrassed many members?
maigemu

Offline _Waziri_

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« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2004, 12:02:40 PM »
Salaam,

Barde and all discerning readers. I am glad that you all can see and understand how this "Mallamt" is struggling tooth and nail in order to distort the meaning of my posting. One advice I have for him is whenever he is discussing anything of public relevance then he must consider the truth that his odience are capable of comprehending meanings. They can also see malignant intentions clearly when they are grossly mismanaged. Our successes in debates largely owe to the fact that we try doing justice not to ourselves only but to the topic and to the people who find us worthy of their response.

Again I will recommend that mallamt should go for a little more training in linguistics for him to undertand why a single person can use a WE for an I. Every learned person in this regard will tell you that there are  two kinds of plural: Of respect and of number. Anyway, after that training I guess Mallamt will never ridicule himself again in this manner.

Sorry mallamt if I have been too harsh. You called for it. Next time you respond to everything on this board before you secure the right to read meaning into others' refusal to respond to anything. This is only the message and it is the same to anybody who thinks responding to some specific topics makes some feel uncomfortable. We are objective enough.

Sai anjima

Offline Barde

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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2004, 07:21:48 PM »
Quote from: "Dave_McEwan_Hill"
:cry:
The killing in Darfur is continuing. There is no doubt that the Arab-based government of Sudan is attempting Genocide against Sudan's black people. I am glad that Nigeria has offerd to send troops to defend the refugees. I am surprised we are having arguments on Kano Online about trivial things while this goes on. So many Onliners are rightly angered by what Israel is doing to the Palestinians or about America's wicked behaviour in Iraq and Afghanistan and I don't understand why they are silent about the worse things going on very close to Nigeria in Sudan. Has the fact that the evil killers in Sudan (killing both Moslems and Christians) are Moslem confused and embarrassed many members?



Dave,

Agreed Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine etc "are not close to Nigeria" what of Banyamulanges? they are also under serious threat, infact more than a hundred were killed almost the same time you posted your thread but you decided to talked about Dafur alone, why? perhaps Banyamulanges are not been massacred by the "Crazed arab muslims". Will i be right to say you are confused and embarassed?

What you guys felt to understand is that as there are bad eggs among muslims, so also one can find bad eggs among christians and other religions, But what you are trying to portray is that all Christians are saints while the other name for muslims is devilishness. Can you, Mallamt, or any christian, tell us why the agony of Banyamulanges is not been discussed in this forum?
im

Offline mrguest

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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2004, 08:36:36 PM »
No time no see.. I have been busy on a different website, they have a nigeria radio station  that site is http://www.nigeriaplanet.tk

check them out....

It look like the hausa/fulani support the sudan govt, thinking that they are muslim, but that is a mistake.. Most black muslim in darfur are hausas origin..  I just find that out,, I saw on CNN, one of them speaking hausa. I was shock.. So I wonder why nigeria, have not be involve in the last 20 years...my answer because your leader think , it is christain  and muslim fighting... But the people in darfur are of Hausa origin.. do your research...well before you reply.
atch nigeria first online Television Naija television and 16 Nigeria radio, and 60 more Tv station around the world.
http://www.NigeriaOne.com
http://www.NigeriaOne.com

Offline mallamt

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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2004, 10:30:13 PM »
Barde

Najika, ama bari na gayama gaskiya, bana tsworon kowa sai Allah don haka gaskiya ko bataye dadi ba sai an fade ta.  Some of you are trying to ensure that you derail the subject matter of this thread.  Let me answer some of what you said
Quote
It seems you wrongly interpreted what i wrote, i wasnt comparing the death of an individual with those that were masacred in dafur, i was just trying to make you understand that there are so many issues that you did not comment on and no body questioned you.
Now I am not sure if you read my post or not but that is your business the thing is that if you did not read it please cease from making statements like the one qouted above you are embarassin yourself.  Here is a bit of what I said
Quote
Yes nobody questioned me or those of us that did not send condolences yet nobody was stopped from questioning me (us) right? Everyone in this forum has the right to question why didn't those that did not send messages of condolence send messages, it is not my place to make anybody ask his/her questions I ask mine, why should I or anybody for that matter be responsible for someone else not asking a question that bothers them?
And typical of you and your cunning ways you artisticaly tried to avoid this statement and thus you did not even answer it.  Again you said
Quote
let me remind you that you were also silent on the issue, Dave posted the topic on 16th june, all you had to say after 15 days was to questioned people on why they didn't contribute, is that not shameful? you were accusing us of keeping silent when you did not say anything.
You are truly in the art (or atleast try to be in it) of telling half truth, concealing facts and twisting them.  You have been generous and effecent enough to tell us that I only commented on the dafur issue after 15 days from its posting and you "cleverly" avoided saying how many times I visited this site or that thread from the date it was posted, nor do you even attempt to say when I visited this site or thread last before the date of my posting questioning the silence. So could it be that I only visited this site and the thread after 15 days from the date of the posting from the date of my last visit? If yes then why are you trying to give an impression that I had nothing to say or contribute until after 15 days? If no then why don't you give factual information of my visits? If you do not have the information on my visits or can not access them then why do you try to give the impression you do not even know yourself?

Offline mallamt

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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2004, 10:53:35 PM »
Quote from: "_Waziri_"
Salaam,
Again I will recommend that mallamt should go for a little more training in linguistics for him to undertand why a single person can use a WE for an I. Every learned person in this regard will tell you that there are  two kinds of plural: Of respect and of number. Anyway, after that training I guess Mallamt will never ridicule himself again in this manner.
Atleast now I understand why you can not comprehend my postings.  I also note that based on what you are saying the WE used by you is Of respect (to use your term) and WE in your english means I. Very interesting, here is the definition and usage of we, kindly note that we is recognised in the english langauge as the plural of ME.  WE  1   the persons speaking or writing: used to refer to the speaker or writer and another or others, sometimes including those addressed: personal pronoun in the first person plural: we is the nominative form, us the objective, ours the possessive, and ourselves (or, by a king, etc., ourself ) the reflexive and intensive; our is the possessive pronominal adjective
2   I: used by a monarch, editor, judge, etc. to indicate that the authority of his or her position or profession is represented
3   you: used in direct address as in encouraging or admonishing an invalid, a child, etc. [shall we take our medicine now?]

Quote
Sorry mallamt if I have been too harsh. You called for it. Next time you respond to everything on this board before you secure the right to read meaning into others' refusal to respond to anything. This is only the message and it is the same to anybody who thinks responding to some specific topics makes some feel uncomfortable. We are objective enough
 What! don't flatter yourself are you new to this forum?  You are a big lair if there is one thing I can see and say for sure about you is that you completely lack objectivity, so don't even go there!!

Offline mallamt

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« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2004, 11:18:41 PM »
Quote from: "Barde"

Dave,

Agreed Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine etc "are not close to Nigeria" what of Banyamulanges? they are also under serious threat, infact more than a hundred were killed almost the same time you posted your thread but you decided to talked about Dafur alone, why? perhaps Banyamulanges are not been massacred by the "Crazed arab muslims". Will i be right to say you are confused and embarassed?

What you guys felt to understand is that as there are bad eggs among muslims, so also one can find bad eggs among christians and other religions, But what you are trying to portray is that all Christians are saints while the other name for muslims is devilishness. Can you, Mallamt, or any christian, tell us why the agony of Banyamulanges is not been discussed in this forum?

Barde
You see it is you and your type who give muslims and islam a bad name!! You are incapable of objectivity and fairness, you are incapable of calling wrong, wrong and right, right or white, white and black, black.  Everything you do or say has a baise but your bias is not for truth or an ettempt for the truth. Who is here talking about bad eggs in islam? did we not write and condem the killings of muslims in plateau state (christains and muslims) in an unqualified term in this forum? did people (christains and muslims) in this forum not condem the invasion of iraq by the US? So what are you talking about? Why are you so petit with peoples lives? How can you narrow the value of peoples life to their beliefs?  You are really an embarassment to any true muslim that much I know and can tell you from your utterances!

On the banyamulanges please I have said it before and I am saying it now if it is an issue why don't you start a thread on it?  what is this thread about?  The whole idea behind having this site designed the way it is is so that you can bring in as many topical issue as you want, did anyone in this forum stop you from starting a banyamulange thread? so why are you accusing others for not discussing it under the sudan disaster thread? why not start a banyamulange thread (probably no one even has as musch information on this matter as you do in this forum) and then complain if people do not contribute.  Please grow up and stop being childish seek the truth and the truth shall set you free!!

Offline mallamt

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« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2004, 11:32:11 PM »
Quote from: "Dave_McEwan_Hill"
:cry:
The killing in Darfur is continuing. There is no doubt that the Arab-based government of Sudan is attempting Genocide against Sudan's black people. I am glad that Nigeria has offerd to send troops to defend the refugees. I am surprised we are having arguments on Kano Online about trivial things while this goes on. So many Onliners are rightly angered by what Israel is doing to the Palestinians or about America's wicked behaviour in Iraq and Afghanistan and I don't understand why they are silent about the worse things going on very close to Nigeria in Sudan. Has the fact that the evil killers in Sudan (killing both Moslems and Christians) are Moslem confused and embarrassed many members?


Dave

You are right it is pity that we are here arguing why we should make or not make others discuss dafur in a thread for discussion the same issue.  Yes I am quite glad and proud of my country for once again taking the leading role in trying to protect lives and property in another nation despite our own problems.  I was fortunate enough to watch a bbc tv documentry on dafur where some nigerian military officers where interviewed, i just wished that people like barde would have watched it to see how both hausa muslim and christain nigerian military officers were describing the situation.  The international community (UN) has again folded its arms while people are dying in that region and they are just talking of resolutions, it is the ruwanda thing coming again.  The sudaness govt must be held responsible they have alot of questions to answer, their threats must be rebuffed and action taken if lives and property are to be saved if left to them the sudaness govt will allow the massacre continue under another guise

Offline Barde

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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2004, 12:09:37 AM »
Quote from: "mallamt"
Furthermore, death in especially in natural circumstance in a family is a very personal thing there is no way you can ever try to compare it with a massacer.  It is very rude, an insult for you or anybody to want to compare a personal loss to the massacre of multitudes.  How could you even compare the two events?


Mallamt,

I want you to sincerely confirm to me if the above quote is yours or not. If it is yours then am right to say you misinterpreted me.

Let's assume that 15 days after the dafur post was your first visit after it was posted. It is funny enough for you to gave the excuse of not visiting the forum regularly as to why you did not comment on the issue, it baffles me that it did not cross your mind that there are people who are not regulars as well.It is also disgracing that you just concluded after your first visit that Kanoonliners are shying away from the dafur issue.

Let me state categorically that if you are a FOOL, members of this forum are not. and i want you to please always read and understand before you comment on anything ok? otherwise you will only be making fool of yourself. I want you to go and ponder on the advice Waziri gave you, i strongly believe that it will help you in no small measure.
im

Offline EMTL

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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2004, 11:10:40 AM »
Quote from: "mallamt"
al_hamza

I am not writing this in order to support daves motives or intentions, the reason I think the Dafur issue is here is because it is closer to "home".  That is the way we must see it and discuss it.......


Mr. T, is Dafur closer to us than Yelwan Shendam? Uptill today the Torah militia are killing innocent Muslims.
In the Affairs of People Fear Allah (SWT). In the Matters Relating to Allah (SWT) Do not be Afraid of Anybody. Ibn Katthab (RA).

 


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