If I Could Say Otherwise

[_Waziri_]

Assalamu Alaikum,

It's been long indeed!  These days' exigencies could consume.

Mine is not yet another women bashing topic as is typical of some post you find in the chitchat forum of this board. But an insight into a trend that appears to be consuming even my blood cousins and sisters and which I believe if allowed unchecked could go along way into influencing the mind of many among our future daughters.

Sometime back I noticed one of our friends here reasoning that women are most shy since they cannot display their nakedness as men do. I really was wondering if that could be a measure of shyness when I realise the need for us look at modern fashion and the image it reflects of womanhood. Perhaps I see it a problem because I spend almost 14 hours of my day always in University environment like ABU with a diverse population of about 35 thousand students from all parts of the country. But even then, that trend in fashion is one which we can see coming into many of our homes and affecting the mindset of our people seriously.

I really wonder what informs the conception of our new generation of students on fashion and dressing. I everyday see women increasingly dressing half naked in the name of fashion. The latest are the series of clothes in the name of show me "your breast".  Woman will dress with almost half of her breast exposed. One would wonder as to what is it she wants? Why the desperation? What informs her feeling of self-respect and worth? What are her values? What does she want to achieve in life?

Many a times you see them not only with skimpy dresses but also very thinly knitted shirts, at times black with white brazier as an outline or white with black brazier as an outline. They stand in front of you; they start emphasizing their womanness at the expense of humanness.

I was in my early twenties few years back when I was managing the busiest place in the Campus. We had to enact rules that we would not be attending any lady that feels she is a woman not a human being. We sometimes had to boldly tell them to come close to us only when they feel they are human beings not women. I asked one lady the other time: is there no way you can feel important enough but by dressing this wise? You can get your feeling of importance by being intelligent, humorous or by even being interested in bashing men just like that.

Where does lie their pride? Most disheartening of this is when you see the increasing number of our women who join the trend everyday. More of the discontent is when you see some parents encouraging their children into it by chastising them not.  Just this morning I jokingly (not directly) told one of my elderly students that I can never ever marry her daughter who does not have any idea of achieving self worth apart from showcasing her body.

Well you too could say I was hard and harsh but people must just  learn to understand that theirs is conscience, conscience, conscience every time. Though I wish I could say other wise.

[EMTL]

Assalamu Alaikum,

Many a times you see them not only with skimpy dresses but also very thinly knitted shirts, at times black with white brazier as an outline or white with black brazier as an outline. They stand in front of you; they start emphasizing their womanness at the expense of humanness.

[/color]

Assalamu alaikum,
It is really pathetic how morality is degenerating in our campuses. Yes some of the dresses are terrible but one there abound still some decent-looking sisters and brothers.

The Muslim woman should not wear transparent or indecent clothes. Malik [RL] reports that Abu Huraira (RA) said, " Women who are naked even though (they) are wearing clothes, go astray and make others to go astray, and they will not enter the Garden (Al-Jannah) or even smell its scent, which can be perceived at a distance covered by five hundred years journey." The above hadith is referring to, for instance, transparent or tight fitting dress.

The men some times also dress terribly, not to mention the kuffar-like hair style. It is our duty to admonish our friends, class-mates and isisters/brothers.


Allah (SWT) Ya shiryar da mu, kannenmu, matanmu da 'yayanmu.

[mallamt]

I think we should find a way of having dress codes in our institutions of higher learning as well as the work place.  It may sound too prescriptive but we must ask our selves what kind of environment we want to live in and what type we want our to children grow up. We must try and respect each other and be africans

[alhaji_aminu]

Salam

Nice toipic waziri and I dare add, If you may say otherwise then do so by all means. ABU is particularly bad in this respect. The ABU students tell us, BUK students that our is an Islamiyya because of the comparative decency prevalent on campus. I guess that should make us, Kanawa and Bukites (and ex Bukites) proud.  

This issue is a serious one indeed. We all have heard of instances where Lecturers were lured into unspeakable circumstances with theses women of easy virtue. What makes this all the more worrysome is the fact that no punitive measures can be taken against them- legally atleast. It should be noted that their behavior is a morally abhorrent one not illegal- and as any student of law or philosophy would know, morality CANNOT be codified as a statute.

So, the best way to deter this behavior is by making it clear to these folks that what they are doing is wrong. Anything beyond this like banning someone from class or suspension from school will be unconstitutional.

We just hope it ends the way it started. That is, from the Girls themselves.

[mallamt]

myadudu

I believe this is an issue that does disturb a great majority of nigerians irrespective of religion or tribe.

We all have heard of instances where Lecturers were lured into unspeakable circumstances with theses women of easy virtue

I think every person is responsible for his/her action the lecturer who is lured by a student and goes ahead and indulges in disrespectful acts is as guilty as the student.  Let us be fair on the matter because such a lecturer is also of very questionable character as the student.  I get the feeling also you are assuming that the only perparators are female students and male lecturers what of the female lecturers and male students? or is it because we do not have enough data on them?

So, the best way to deter this behavior is by making it clear to these folks that what they are doing is wrong. Anything beyond this like banning someone from class or suspension from school will be unconstitutional.

So how can it be made clear that what they are doing is wrong?  Is sending a student out of class or suspension not a deterance?  What is unconstitutional with a people defining how they want to live without infringing on the rights of others?  There are several organisations around the world even in the USA that have dress codes, some establishments also require specific dress codes before they are entered and this does not infringe on constitutional rights, so why can't the NUC or universities in Nigeria develope dress codes for staff and students?  I think that it may be the way to attack this suggestive type of dressing we see in our campuses.  We must remember that on this issue the present and future generation of nigeria are at risk of not knowing themselves and losing their morality.  The future of nigeria seriously depends on us taking a stand on this matter today

[Barde]

Dress code is one of the things Shariah is introducing but
our christian freinds are not willing to cooperate?

[_Waziri_]

That is true Barde. A good number of Christians feel something is being imposed on them by that action.

[lionger]

Waziri and Barde,

What are you both dragging Christianity into this for? Stop confusing issues and make a correct judgement. You know very well that enforcement of moderate dress sense is hardly the only thing Sharia is supposed to do, and I do not need to explain to you two again why Christians (or anyone for that matter) should bluntly reject this masquerade for the continued relevance of a corrupt political elite and the continued exploitation of the helpless northern masses. Infact, Barde, your very statement itself is enough an indictment of Sharia as you would like it. I won't say any more on the subject. I honestly wonder what percentage of the students in ABU, BUK are Christian.

That said, the degeneration of our moral values is something to be taken seriously. However, I would like to hear what the women on this forum have to say on this, because frankly it is silly for a bunch of men to sit around discussing the promiscuity of women's dressing and the approriate steps to curb it w/out adequate female imput. That's why I have held my peace. It will keep us in check and stop us from going overboard and becoming overbearing. Waziri, this is what I'm talking about:

..we would not be attending any lady that feels she is a woman not a human being. We sometimes had to boldly tell them to come close to us only when they feel they are human beings not women.

Waziri, she is a woman, not just a human being. And as such should be able to express her feminity moderately. That's what you meant, right?  :D [/b]

[Barde]

Lionger,

Get me right, i did not say Sharia is only introducing dress code. Mallamt suggested that a dress code be introduced that was why i made my statement. That remainds me of an Institution in Bauchi state, the management introduced a kind of dress code for both male and female students but the Christians refused to abide by it, to the extent that the local branch of the Christian Association of Nigeria(CAN) took up the matter to Court. I wonder if they have forgotten what 1st Corianthians chapter 11 Verses 6 and 10 are saying. In view of the above fact, i want you to please tell me, how will i not drag Christianity whenever  an issue of a decent dress code is been discussed?

[mallamt]

Lionger,

Get me right, i did not say Sharia is only introducing dress code. Mallamt suggested that a dress code be introduced that was why i made my statement. That remainds me of an Institution in Bauchi state, the management introduced a kind of dress code for both male and female students but the Christians refused to abide by it, to the extent that the local branch of the Christian Association of Nigeria(CAN) took up the matter to Court. I wonder if they have forgotten what 1st Corianthians chapter 11 Verses 6 and 10 are saying. In view of the above fact, i want you to please tell me, how will i not drag Christianity whenever  an issue of a decent dress code is been discussed?

Barde

You are a very dangerous venom! Indeed I made suggestion of a dress code but as lionger commented I do not see why you start by an attack on christians what have they done to you?  Naturally you must understand that you can not develope a dress code based on only one religion if indeed you want a dress code and peace in your society.  Now that is the problem of the attempts made so far in developing dress codes.  The codes are being drawn based on islamic rules and the interpretation by muslims of what other religions (in particular christianity) say about dressing.  Now is that fair and right?  The university of lagos is probably the first university in recent times to take the matter seriously.  The senate called for the development of a dress code and parents were brought into the matter, a meeting called for between parents and university authorities.  I am not sure how far the coding of dressing has gone in unilag nor how far the implemetation has gone, but what I know a number of other southern universities followed suite on the dress code issue.  As of today I am not aware of any northern university that has visited the codifying of dressing on campus.

[Barde]

Lionger/mallamt,


Am so sorry, what i considered a decent dress code might not be same as what you considered a decent dress code. But all what i know is that during the life time of Jesus christ, women were always covering themselves in respective of where they are. But am so suprised that christians who are supposed to be christ-like are now referring to such a dress code as a 'masquerate'. No wonder we see them dancing half naked in churches.

I want you to please tell us the way a born-again christian supposed to dress. How would you see any northern university introducing a dress code when they been threatened with a court case? and Thanx for the name you gave me.

[_Waziri_]

Waziri and Barde,

What are you both dragging Christianity into this for? Stop confusing issues and make a correct judgement.

It is not myself and ofcourse not Barde who dragged Christianity into it but it is lionger doing it now.

What Barde and myself submitted is nothing more than the fact that our Christians friends see an attempt to come up with a dress code to mean an imposition with the view of Islamazing them. And you will agree with me that this does not mean Christianity, because orthodox Christiianity is not necessarily what Christians in our environment  see and practice.

If women on this board want to partake in this discourse let them come in. They are highly welcome. If they feel like not participating, fine. It is not silly of us to continue discussing. What is right doesn't have to wait for a voice of a woman or even that of  a particular section of men before it prevails. What is right does not necessarily come in votes and samples.

Finally, it is my conviction that a moderate dress code with a minimum specific area it should cover and based on what orthodox christiniaty prescribes for the Christians can be achieved for Christians. This is what our Shari'a governments among other things are seeking to establish. We only do not want see women going about half naked.

Lionger is right by observing that dresscode should not be the major occupation of Shari'a. But I submit here that dress code has never been the major occupation of Shari'a. The Shari'a governments have never made it there only occupation. They only pursue it as a part not the main.

[lionger]

Barde,

Of course I know what Sharia is about, abi u have forgotten who I am? :lol: I was simply responding to this post of yours:

Dress code is one of the things Shariah is introducing but
our christian freinds are not willing to cooperate?

Listen, and listen well: It is not a matter of our rejection of a dress code, it is a matter of our rejection of Sharia itself! Christians are not opposed to appropriate dressing; we are opposed to SHARIA! Barde, if indeed I was referring to the dress code as a 'masquerade', then what on earth was I talking about in the second paragraph? Surely you can see the difference.

I would like you and Waziri to consider the propriety of mentioning Sharia and accusing christianity, in a discussion on appropriate dressing in our university campuses. When did our tertiary insitutions become religious domains? Waziri, why would you imagine that Sharia's dress code would be appropriate or even acceptable in a place like ABU, 'with a diverse population of about 35 thousand students from all parts of the country'? This not an Islamic shool; this is a public institution. As such I submit to you that neither Sharia nor Christianity should ever dominate such a discussion. Afterall, we have dress codes in workplaces and even restaurants all over the world; thanks to religion? I repeat, we should stop confusing issues and make a correct judgement.

And btw, Barde, let me state for the record, that Christians are very much in favor of appropriate dressing. However, Christ did not leave us a dress code, but He did leave us two commandments: to love God with all our heart and strength, and to love one another. That, my friend is enough in this respect, believe it or not!

[_Waziri_]

You did not adress my points lionger, this is what I said:

Waziri and Barde,

What are you both dragging Christianity into this for? Stop confusing issues and make a correct judgement.

It is not myself and ofcourse not Barde who dragged Christianity into it but it is lionger doing it now.

What Barde and myself submitted is nothing more than the fact that our Christians friends see an attempt to come up with a dress code to mean an imposition with the view of Islamazing them. And you will agree with me that this does not mean Christianity, because orthodox Christiianity is not necessarily what Christians in our environment  see and practice.

If women on this board want to partake in this discourse let them come in. They are highly welcome. If they feel like not participating, fine. It is not silly of us to continue discussing. What is right doesn't have to wait for a voice of a woman or even that of  a particular section of men before it prevails. What is right does not necessarily come in votes and samples.

Finally, it is my conviction that a moderate dress code with a minimum specific area it should cover and based on what orthodox christiniaty prescribes for the Christians can be achieved for Christians. This is what our Shari'a governments among other things are seeking to establish. We only do not want see women going about half naked.

Lionger is right by observing that dresscode should not be the major occupation of Shari'a. But I submit here that dress code has never been the major occupation of Shari'a. The Shari'a governments have never made it there only occupation. They only pursue it as a part not the main.

[lionger]

All right, Waziri:

It is not myself and ofcourse not Barde who dragged Christianity into it but it is lionger doing it now.

What Barde and myself submitted is nothing more than the fact that our Christians friends see an attempt to come up with a dress code to mean an imposition with the view of Islamazing them. And you will agree with me that this does not mean Christianity, because orthodox Christiianity is not necessarily what Christians in our environment see and practice.

This simply aint true. Like I said to Barde, Christians are certainly concerned about approriate dressing.  Our standards may not be as 'lofty' as yours, and frankly that doesn't make your standards so right either! But when you start saying things like 'this is one one of the things Sharia brings', don't be surprised if we back off, cuz we are not fools. I hope you have not concluded that all those girls runnign around in skimpy clothing are Christians - well some of them are, but i'm sure there are a couple of muslims and plenty of 'secular' ppl among them! I'm not sure what you mean by 'othodox Christianity', but by the grace God has given me, I follow Christ.

If women on this board want to partake in this discourse let them come in. They are highly welcome. If they feel like not participating, fine. It is not silly of us to continue discussing. What is right doesn't have to wait for a voice of a woman or even that of a particular section of men before it prevails. What is right does not necessarily come in votes and samples.

You would see thigns differently had u not put your religious stamp on the  matter. Because unfortunately you do need the woman's input, even on something you feel is right. It is true that what is right does not need the approval of a woman's voice, but the right thing done the wrong way is ultimately the wrong thing. I guess this is where our faiths clash quite unreconciliably.

Finally, it is my conviction that a moderate dress code with a minimum specific area it should cover and based on what orthodox christiniaty prescribes for the Christians can be achieved for Christians. This is what our Shari'a governments among other things are seeking to establish. We only do not want see women going about half naked.

Lol what do you think 'orthodox christianity' prescribes? Read what I said to Barde on this subject. We don't want to see women going about half-naked either

Lionger is right by observing that dresscode should not be the major occupation of Shari'a. But I submit here that dress code has never been the major occupation of Shari'a. The Shari'a governments have never made it there only occupation. They only pursue it as a part not the main.

I never suggested that the Sharia should not be pre-occupied with dress codes, infact i agree with what you've said in this sense. Like I've always said, Northern Nigeria's Sharia simpy exists for division and for the continued survival of those corrupt politicians.