Author Topic: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II  (Read 25857 times)

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Offline lionger

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Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« on: February 16, 2003, 03:30:39 AM »
I originally posted this on the previous thread but I decided it would redirect the discussion a little too much, and thus deleted it. thus i've decided to make a new thread and post it here..

i stumbled on this article while surfing gamgi.com. i think it raises certain valid points which concern the North and thus Hausa Fulani. What do you think?
 
http://www.gamji.com/amnews7.htm

Offline Muhammad

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2003, 12:23:37 AM »
Assalamu Alaikum

Thanks Lionger for directing us towards this article. I believe the most important aspect of this article should be the healthcare deficiency in the N-west. I am not a poltician so I cannot say, with any degree of certainty, what cause(s) these problems.
Another good thing that comes out of this article is that  the criticism comes from  "One of us". What in your own opinion , Lionger, needs to be done to bridge the educational gap between North and south.
I must say the health aspect of the write up is inconclusive. This is because, the North, as most of us know, is very large and not every village can get easy access to health care facilities in the urban areas as it is in the South.
Educationally, Northerners- aka muslims, tend to concentrate on islamic education which both Abba Gana and Shettima, think is obsolete. If one were to count Islamic literacy as general literacy, then all the al majiris we see on the streets are educated, albeit not the way Unicef of FOS wants them to be.
Lionger, can you offer any solutions and do you agree with my analysis?
Bissalam

Offline lionger

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2003, 06:35:47 PM »
hello amin,

Regarding educational problems in the North, i believe a regional body created specifically for this purpose (and under the auspices of the Ministry of Education), should be given extraordinary  powers to effectively tackle the issue at hand. Of course, sincere and dedicated professionals must constitute such a body; if not, it would jjust become another grand stage for bribery and corruption. In a period of about ten years, this body should undertake the following steps:

Step I: Rehabilitation: Restructuring and rehabilitation of all educational infrastructures, facilities and management. This task should be carried out exclusively within a period of 5 years.


Step II: Maintenance:  One of the biggest problems that separate us from the first world is our inability to maintain our infrastructure and facilities. Thus this phase undertakes the maintenance of the standards established during the rehabilitation phase, in a period of 3 years.  Of course, this requires money, which again places importance on the integrity of the body members.

StepIII:  Enhancement:  With the improved standards, facilities and infrastructures in place and well maintained, we can now bring in new projects and services, within the last two years, that will improve and ensure the longevity of the system:  educational technology, new courses that may deal with current realities of the world, guidance and counseling services.  Others will include teachers in services, media specialist training, etc.

The committee should be dissolved at the end of the ten-year period. These steps i have mentioned are a paraphrased model of certain publications made by the Zumunta Association USA Inc, among others.

Its up to the emirates to pressure the Northern politicians at the local, state and federal level to ensure that the following steps are taken. Shettima's article rightfully points the finger at the emirates and Northern politicians for the sorry state the Norht is in today.

Offline nura

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2003, 10:22:12 AM »
Lionger

I totally agree with Shettima on the Emirates/traditional rulers in the north. But I think th idea of the Emirs forcing the politicians to do anything is very limited considering the immense power the politicians have over them. By the stroke of his pen any Governor can remove a first class emir/traditional ruler in his state so how do you expect them to force the politicians to do anything. The Emirs cannot be the cause of the lack of eduactional development in the north as their roles are limited to attending the primary school registration ceremonies and advisory roles in respect of calling the citizenry to take their children to school. In my opinion educational underdevelopment especially in the core north has to do with tradition, poverty and the lack of interest of the politicians in developing the sector. You dont expect an emir to come out and ask his people to take their children to "Boko" school and ignore the islamiyya or makarantar allo. Furthermore you can say that islamic education is primitive or backward, it is also a form of education, if you dont know it encompasses science, mathematics and language except if writing and reading arabic does not mean literacy.

Almost all good English books are translated to Arabic, even computerwise there is Windows arabic with word processing, excell etc.

I seriously believe that this has very little to do with the Emirs and Traditional Rulers but a lot with the politicians.
The sooner they come to their senses the better for us furthermore the people can change it too by voting the leaders with articulated educational programmes and lagislators thatare not "yan support" who have been settled to only rubber stamp the executives bills.
agari Nakowa Mugu Sai Maishi

Offline lionger

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2003, 04:37:55 PM »
I agree with your observations on the emirates 'helplessness' over their politicians. But if the emirate system can't stand up to the politicians, who will? Majority of the masses are too poor, illiterate and deceived. We can all choose to wait until an honest politician comes thru but when/how is that going to happen, esp. as corruption becomes more and more the  norm in Nigerian politics?

btw don't get me wrong, i do not mean to say that islamic education is a primitive form of education in any way. But in fact, the article says that the historical prevalence of islamic education in northern nigeria is not even an excuse, as this also has been allowed to decay (do you agree?). The article also asserts that,

"Beginning with literacy (the ability to read and write, with understanding in ANY language) ... many states of the North are left crawling behind the rest of Nigeria"

This somewhat leads us to the Miss World riots and Sani yerima's outrageous fatwa declaration. The north has to start taking both 'western' and islamic education very seriously and fast! if they did, corrupt northern politicians woul not have the kind of support they have. Most of the time, all they have to do is to declare their islamic faith or to do things that would 'enhance islam in Nigeria'. Buhari and IBB knew this and that is largely the reason why Nigeria is now a member of the OIC. Even Sharia, sorry to say, is just another tool for deceiving the people of Northern Nigeria! Now northern states are spending money on separate facilities for men and women, whereas, 'real' development goes unckecked.

True, the northern political elite have failed the populace, and need to be removed. But how? The ppl are confused, illiteracy levels are high, etc. To change that, money needs to be put into developing the North, money which can onl come from it greedy politicians! This is beginning to look like a vicious cycle of manipulation to me. Any ideas, anyone?? ???

Offline Waziri

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2003, 12:20:28 PM »
Lionger,

Tis quite an intersting shift you provided, the other topic really disscussed the tragedy of the elite, the learned Hausa-Fulani in the modern world. But your concern here as well that of Shettima is the body of the "Talakawa" among Hausa-Fulani. And on this I produced an angle of thought some time 2001 as a contribution to a debate ignited by my mentor Dr. Aliyu Tilde. Here at the risk of being too cumbersome I reproduce the whole of the article for further critism. Happy reading.

AS THE SUN RISES: On The Dr. Tilde?s Mallam B.

By

Ibraheem A. Waziri
Iya Abubakar Computer Centre,
A. B. U., Zaria.

From a glittering gold cleansed you emerged
Near to pure nigh not to dross ? ? ?
Amid myriad chosen like saint
Blowing savours frequent as scent
Blessed in twain beauty and intellect?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
My Noble Mentor

The above is an opening stanza of a eulogy I composed in praise of my mentor Dr. Aliyu Tilde. It suffices to say that I swallow, hook, line, and sinker everything Dr. Tilde would pen down concerning social issues, Shari?a debate and of course the seemingly controversial status of women in Islam as viewed from different cone-angles and its sister topic: moon sighting. I am also in constant admiration of his perceived inconsistency as he admitted in his popular Lets chat. I am also in love with his policy of accommodating goals to condition, his belief in subordinating ideals with reality; as it appeared in his controversial presentation concerning IBB?s candidature come 2003. His sincerity in being right; his sincerity in being wrong, needless to say that the beauty of life all lies in those shortcomings that are inherent in us.

The (Un) Fortunate Coincidence

Yet it is unfortunate, as it is obtained in history, which has the uncanny habit of repeating itself, the noble Doctor has found a presumptuous student in me when it comes to the problem of Northern Nigeria and its solutions. This may have something to do with our differences in background and temperament. While the Doctor was educated under the remnants of the white man?s legacies before they faded out, I am being educated at the trough of the degeneration of our socio-economo-political strata. While the Doctor from what eyes can see hands can touch, is away from the pangs and pains that our present condition registers; I on my part I am standing amid the pit from which those panging fumes radiate. And of course my status in the present societal composition privileged me to be closer to the people than Mallam who only sees at coincidence as it appeared in his emotional Undesirable Divide. ?
 
As is naturally obtained, though students of biology are in a better position to explain; those in trouble see more sharply the escape routes out of problems than those who are not afflicted by circumstances. The ability of their cerebral cortex is always elongated at the time of action. I am saying this while holding in view the content of Mallam?s presentation entitled Mallam B. where the problem of Mallam Bahaushe was highlighted. I cherish the presentation and the argument advanced in it is superb, for since time I hoped to see when we will re-direct our criticism to our selves in order to see how much we have contributed in the domination of the Federal Civil Service by the Yoruba and the monopoly of modern trade by the (non graduate) Igbo. But I will want to believe that the problem requires deeper analysis. The truth is, if we want evolve a very cogent therapy, our problem must be fully outlined. If not, our methods of solving those problems will not in any way bring forth meaningful results. Remember we?ve been roaming the wilderness for over forty years now, and the glitters of the streams we see, have always turned out to be a mirage.




Our Real Problems

Mallam sought to prove that it is only ?the average western educated breed of the Hausa? that is lazy, that he (the Hausa) ?invented? this attitude of laziness some three decades back. He quoted the acclaimed journalist E. D Morel to establish a defence of the Hausa of the ?pre-three decades? back. And it is in this permutation I have difficulty, for it differs from the basic principles of human psychological growth. With a simple familiarity with the concepts of Intimacy, Spontaneity and Awareness as adequately dwelt upon by Eric Berne M. D. in his Games People Play: the psychology of human relationships; we will see that, if empirical evidence is anything to go by. Then it is not possible for Mallam Bahaushe to acquire such dramatic change of attitude over the scanty period of three decades.

To benefit from its preserved veracity, even the accounts of E. D. Morel can be viewed from a different angle. For the fruit of development that is ripe in history can only be amply reaped, when we look at history with the view of improving on it, not when we look at it with the view of emulating it. Progress in life is not when one goes back to his past, but rather, when one pulls away from it.

E. D. Morel in Nigeria and its people indeed painted a beaming picture of our people. He even went further to substantiate that ?That is the condition in which Leo Africanus found them in the sixteen century, when he revealed their existence to an incredulous and largely unlettered Western world?? True, but if we are to widen our gaze, we will see that Leo Africanus carried his exploration of Africa when Great Songhai Empire was at the peak of its splendour. At the time of his expedition the then Emperor Muhammad Askia the Great had extended his conquest to the Hausa states. Here we can rightly argue that what Leo Africanus witnessed was nothing more than an ?'imposition' ? of the Great Songhai Empire on us.

 I am Sorry please the honourable reader I don?t mean to hurt your pride, but it is true, that after the decline and fall of the Songhai Empire. Our people as if they were lions stripped off chains: changed course. Hate infiltrated them, civil wars ensued, hero-worship prevailed in the mind of the populace, they assumed reverse motion and mounted gear in the direction of the past: the status quo before the conquest. ?It was on their way to the old ?Lovely? idols that they met with the Fulani Jihad and its reformist worldview. The indefatigable Shehu Usman Danfodio assiduously worked to restore the lost glory, economic prosperity proceeded and intellectual exposition won through in every quarter.

After the demise of the Shehu and his immediate successors, things drastically changed, our people saw no reason why they must keep the tempo. After all, Shehu, his son and brother Abdullahi were all awliya?a (saints), which are very rare to obtain. They started immortalising them, only a little accident will occur before they shout ?Shehu da Bello?, in quest of their intercession. The past became the precious jewel. Little or even no effort was made to preserve the Jihadists peculiarities, communal wars ?restored?, and journeys to the past launched. ?So they kept moving on in the direction of perpetual decadence, until the arrival of the white man. When the white man came, as Dr. Tilde himself in the conclusive part of He is guilty believed, they turned to ?dark merchants? selling the interests and sometimes the body and soul of their own cousins to the white man. This was the condition of our people when E. D. Morel visited the Northern part of Nigeria. What he couldn?t help but to admire, was nothing more than the residue of the past legacy as it was gradually fading away. And this is exactly what I tried summing up in my earlier presentation featured in our darling Friday Discourse November 17-23rd, 2000 edition Anonymous Enemy saying:

History has recorded, that the Hausa states of pre- jihad period where never organised under one sovereignty, bearing same Identity, sharing love and respect, under a prosperous civilisation. But they engaged in cutthroat competitions, warring each other. Today it is Kano against Zaria; tomorrow Katsina against Kano. After the jihad, not long after the demise of the Shehu Usman Danfodio, the art continued. The actual representation of our attitude towards life is enshrined in the acme of poetry the work of late Sa?adu Zungur: Arewa jamhuriya ko mulukiya (North: Republic or Monarchy). ? ? ? ?

I would want believe, it was in a quest of a reawakening that will resuscitate our frail, nearly dead intellectual heritage and launch a different or rather new perception of the world averse to the policy of republicanism of the blood sucking colonialist guided by his philosophy of nationalism, which puts the then northerner at a gross disadvantage that the genius-minded Mallam Sa?adu composed with a unique vision and deeper insight into the problem of our people his poem. That was mostly centred on self-criticism. Though very polite in approach but the flame of his anger can be tanged as he bluntly spelled out in brutal frankness what he perceived to be the crux of our problems. He lamented believing that the successors of Adullahi Fodio betrayed his course:

Shaihu Abdallahi hakikatan
Yabar mana gadon gaskiya.
 Ilmi, hikima, addini duka
 da dabarar sarrafa duniya.

Muka lalata muka wargaza
 Gashi yau sai anai mana dariya.
Babu tsuntsu, ba tarko duka
Wallah munyi asarar duniya?

Mallam Sa?adu also believed our people have been lazy for a very long time, for in the same work he cried:

A arewa zumunta ta mutu
Sai nishadi sai sharholiya
Sai alfahari da yawan kwafa
Girman kai, sai kwambon tsiya?
? Camfe-Camfe da tsibbace-tsibbacen
Mallaman karya, ?yan duniya

When he couldn?t contain the remains in his stomach he busted:

Babu mai aiki bisa hankali
Da basira don ya ga gaskiya?
?Wagga al?umma me zata wo
A cikin zarafofin duniya

If we are to stand on the cries of Mallam Sa?adu only, we will see that the Hausa man has been lazy even before perhaps the birth of Mallam Sa?adu himself. What the today?s Hausa youth is doing, I am sorry to say; is nothing more than rhyming with his ancestral traits. The fact that the pre-three-decades Hausa can provide himself with food or in the present day feeds his country or farms what contributes 40% of his country?s GDP as Dr. Tilde adjudges does not mean he is not lazy. Food is not the alpha and omega of man?s need. An example of non-lazy populace is the people of the Island in Europe called Malta. With a population of less than a million, yet they can adequately provide for the political stability, economic security and mental nourishment of their people. In such a manner that matches the methodology of any contemporary civilised nation.

Our Real Solutions

At this juncture I find it easy to subscribe to the truth that the solution comes up when we overhaul our perception of the past, which we always refer to with excessive glorification. We regard everything of old as best, the kind that we cannot achieve no matter how hard we strive. Conceivably because of a popular but Maudu? Hadith that quotes prophet of Islam as saying: ?the best of epochs is the epoch I live in, then the one that succeeds it and the one that will succeed that, on and on, until the end of time?. This view needs to be revisited from its very source, considering the proclamation of God in Suratul Waqi?ah that guarantees the existence of good and able people till the end of time. Instead of idolising Usman Danfodio and other ulama?a we can conveniently start looking for their type in the persons of our present set of scholarly giants. Also our concept of elder and his role in the society must be revisited. His position of constantly greeting every venture from the youth with reproof, denying him the use of his creative intelligence to respond to problems that may arise; beckoning his attention, choosing wife for him at the age of thirty under the pretext that he is not old enough to decide for himself. Presuming that wisdom is always a prerogative of the elder ta yaro ai kyau take bata karko. Don?t be surprised if you hear that our young ministers that served in the first republic were only holding the portfolio ne kawai but were not empowered to use their initiatives in solving problems. Maybe that was why after the demise of Sardauna the North went stranded in terms of able leaders because the young men were not trained to lead but to receive orders.
 
How do we achieve that?

My pain begins and knows no bounds whenever I stand to ruminate on this aspect given our present social milieu. My feeble mind's eye, finds the opinion of many political and social critics very frail and cagey, sometimes too academic and impracticable, which it quickly dismisses as intellectual hullabaloo. It is high time for us to carve out something real and practical. Instead of boisterous clamour that bridging the educational gap between South and North as exists today will completely solve our problem, we have to come to terms with the reality that education as in the way it is labelled today as degree and diploma does not, neither has it ever been the only panacea to national progress any where in the world. Today if you find an educated Hausa man any where be him a professor, sheik, average man or a common shoe shiner at Mile-twelve or Ketu you will find that their appetites, priorities, preferences are the same. It is then you will start wondering as to where do the Bachelor Degree and the proficiency in jurisprudence lie? How does it help the person who bags it? Is it not the educated that is always the leach that qualifies as the object of Mallam?s everyday venom?

Yes! Education alone isn?t the solution, remember in spite of the much south-westerners have in their repose, yet they had to come thirty and eight years before they could take away leadership from the underdog North. They are still not the most productive in the country and of course not the most morally upright. Corruption is laudable everywhere in their land as their elites are busy riding on the feelings and emotions of their gullible laypeople.

Education in its various degrees and diplomas? No! If the reader will kindly revise his books on history he will find that even the economic giants of the almighty USA at the early twentieth century ranging from Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, Charlie Schwab and Rockefeller were not people of huge academic qualification. It is also a stark reality that even those who stood out in the field of intellectual karate from the nineteenth century British novelist Charles Dickens, all time historian H.G. Wells to the much celebrated writer Leo Tolstoy and G. B. Shaw where not repose of much academic qualification.

Back home, I believe we will not be accused of pulling the wool over the reader?s eyes if we say that the intellectual prowess of people like Dr. Tilde which makes him capable of rendering the weekends of thousands of readers dull and dumb whenever he chooses not write cannot be credited to the fact that he is a PhD. Neither can we say that the economic wizardry of Aliko Dangote or political deftness of Yariman Bakura has one to one relation with their academic excellence in classroom. Is it not true that non-graduate Mallam BatureTanimu Gagare that was interviewed by Ibraheem Sheme ( Weekly Trust; August 23-27, 2000) spoke with such a meticulous diction, superb argument that can match the dexterity or even outweigh the density of any professorial argument?

The fact is the above mentioned personalities discovered their ability somehow, somewhere in their intercourse with other members of their society which was not necessarily in relation to their academic excellence in class rooms. The average northerner needs nothing more than that thing that will help him discover his vast creative potentials.

Where to start is our human production canal. It is the duty of our intelligentsia to reschedule our disposition, reactivate our consciousness and redirect our conscience. It is true that man gets the inspiration of his action through what happens around him, what he sees, listens and thinks everyday. By implication if we can get to control these things we will be capable of influencing the thought, vision and temperament of the members our society. My concern most, are the noble men and women of the lower cadre of Northern youth those between the ages of eighteen to thirty years now. They are the ones that will be left with the task of running the activities of the North some fifteen years to come and it is for them I speak.

It is a well known fact that movie houses and music industries today in USA and other countries play an understated role in shaping the psychological bearing of a good number of their populace. Their influence has extended beyond the borders of USA it voyages crossing rivers to meet us in our houses and encroach into our thought processes; producing millions of subnormal youths in campuses or on streets that enjoy walking like snakes, making nuisance of themselves calling themselves NIGGERS.

This threatens the bedrock of our existence with disaster if it is not saved by the wisdom of those among us desirous of a just and comprehensive progress. I think added to the massive developments projects our individual state governments are carrying out. It will also serve us well if their attention will tilt a while towards our local music industries and movie houses. The recent influx of Hausa movies and music has lured the attention of a good number of our youths away from foreign movies. Especially now that Shari?a is home, this I believe will serve as a convenient means of addressing our minds, shielding us away from foreign incursions and of course seeing to borders the long and perseverant bug that has been bugging us for centuries. What we need is nothing more than to increase the aesthetic appeal of such movies investing in them a touch of expertise and meaning congruent with loftier ideals. ?

Conclusion

Although the reader may find cause to dismiss our argument as trivial and unserious, but if we are to reflect on our daily activities we will find our weaknesses and failures mostly are traceable through those things we regard as unserious. Besides. If the evil deems it necessary to attack the good at the rising of the sun, using every means at its disposal both serious and unserious. That will automatically demand of the good to do the same to protect itself talk less of launching offensive, and this: before the sun reaches its crest.

Offline Ummulhuda

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2003, 03:07:06 PM »
Quote

True, the northern political elite have failed the populace, and need to be removed. But how? The ppl are confused, illiteracy levels are high, etc. To change that, money needs to be put into developing the North, money which can onl come from it greedy politicians! This is beginning to look like a vicious cycle of manipulation to me. Any ideas, anyone?? ???

How about reverting back to military rule with a strong arm rule like the one we had under Buhari and Idiagbon?
Nigerians were beginning to behave themselves under  B/I  and the discipline was really working because no one wanted to be publicly humiliated.

Only a military govt can impose itself on its ppl and they have to obey it whether they like it or not. With a civilian govt, one can cry foul and blackmail it with the threat of not voting for it the next time, which of course the govt is very much aware of so the officials steal everything they can, since there may not be a second tenure.

With a military Govt like the B/I, we had a set of men who sincerely wanted to rid Nig. of corruption and set it on a footing towards development. Murtala wanted to do the same, but both govts were truncated just as they were beginning to bud. I suspect that on both occasions, the West (America, specifically) had a hand in cutting short the life span of these govts.

We may blame ourselves all we wish on the lack of our progress economically socially educationally e.t.c. But if we don't face up to the root or genesis of it, we will never get out of the vicious cycle we are in. The root of it is the western world, that constantly lives in fear of Nigeria's rise to greatness and therefore covertly does everything to keep it down.  

The problem  with us is that we like to listen to the West and kowtow to what the west thinks is 'best' for us. What is best for us in accordance with the Western philosophy is to serve the West's interests and its interests definitely do not include our economic development. The West always harangues us about militarism equating it with dictatorship simply because you have to do as you are told.
So  we tag along and try to blow the roofs of  the heavens with cries of abuses of human rights, when ever we have a military govt in place, when we know very well that some of those very stringent measures that the military govt adopts is the only way to curb the unethical practices of some unruly Nigerians.

 When we do as we are told, and elect democracy, we are bedevilled with atrociously bad leadership. But have you ever heard the West put economic sanctions or the like over a democratic government that does not go according to the wishes of the masses that put it there? Of course not. That is because in principle every democratic govt is really an ineffectual tool, at the mercy of its ppl. Most civilian govts only succeed because the wheels and cogs of their country's economy are already in place and functioning before they assumed the reins of control. So the govt takes over and claims economic glories from an economy that was basically influenced by global events. In our case, we are further bedevilled by ppl who are not willing to distribute at least equitably amongst the masses any gains accruing from a good economy so there is no investment in the human resources, in infrastructure, and all the basic amenities that are required indexes for development to occur.  And the West is very aware of our penchant for corruption, and it likes it that way. because a corrupt country can never move forward.

so what I say is let's just shut our ears to the threats of sanctions and the like from the west,, go back to  military rule under the likes of Buhari and Idiagbon (Allah Ya Jikan shi), really twist a lot of arms and shove a lot of 'keyas' and get Nigerians out of this cancer called corruption, and when we have learned to behave in public office as trustworthy officers, then the civilians can come back.

Offline Ummulhuda

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2003, 12:59:33 PM »
'Check out Buharism as Fascism:Engaging Balarabe Musa' by Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, another man who ought to be listed in the Northern Stars category,or has some one listed him already? The article is presently on a priority corner at the Gamji website.

 A few answers are provided by SLS with respect to Lionger's plea for some ideas and solutions to our dilemma of corupt politicians, which should not really be limited to the North but be viewed nationally.

These answers lie in what is expected Buhari will do if he becomes prez insha Allah. Hopefully, he will carry on where he was summarily cut short by the I.B.B. admin but not as a slowly evolving full metal jacketed soldier as O.B.J. finally became, but with more adroitness and political finnesse.

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2003, 11:40:02 PM »
Quote

How about reverting back to military rule with a strong arm rule like the one we had under Buhari and Idiagbon?
Nigerians were beginning to behave themselves under ?B/I ?and the discipline was really working because no one wanted to be publicly humiliated.

Only a military govt can impose itself on its ppl and they have to obey it whether they like it or not. With a civilian govt, one can cry foul and blackmail it with the threat of not voting for it the next time, which of course the govt is very much aware of so the officials steal everything they can, since there may not be a second tenure.

With a military Govt like the B/I, we had a set of men who sincerely wanted to rid Nig. of corruption and set it on a footing towards development. Murtala wanted to do the same, but both govts were truncated just as they were beginning to bud. I suspect that on both occasions, the West (America, specifically) had a hand in cutting short the life span of these govts.

We may blame ourselves all we wish on the lack of our progress economically socially educationally e.t.c. But if we don't face up to the root or genesis of it, we will never get out of the vicious cycle we are in. The root of it is the western world, that constantly lives in fear of Nigeria's rise to greatness and therefore covertly does everything to keep it down. ?

The problem ?with us is that we like to listen to the West and kowtow to what the west thinks is 'best' for us. What is best for us in accordance with the Western philosophy is to serve the West's interests and its interests definitely do not include our economic development. The West always harangues us about militarism equating it with dictatorship simply because you have to do as you are told.
So ?we tag along and try to blow the roofs of ?the heavens with cries of abuses of human rights, when ever we have a military govt in place, when we know very well that some of those very stringent measures that the military govt adopts is the only way to curb the unethical practices of some unruly Nigerians.

 When we do as we are told, and elect democracy, we are bedevilled with atrociously bad leadership. But have you ever heard the West put economic sanctions or the like over a democratic government that does not go according to the wishes of the masses that put it there? Of course not. That is because in principle every democratic govt is really an ineffectual tool, at the mercy of its ppl. Most civilian govts only succeed because the wheels and cogs of their country's economy are already in place and functioning before they assumed the reins of control. So the govt takes over and claims economic glories from an economy that was basically influenced by global events. In our case, we are further bedevilled by ppl who are not willing to distribute at least equitably amongst the masses any gains accruing from a good economy so there is no investment in the human resources, in infrastructure, and all the basic amenities that are required indexes for development to occur. ?And the West is very aware of our penchant for corruption, and it likes it that way. because a corrupt country can never move forward.

so what I say is let's just shut our ears to the threats of sanctions and the like from the west,, go back to ?military rule under the likes of Buhari and Idiagbon (Allah Ya Jikan shi), really twist a lot of arms and shove a lot of 'keyas' and get Nigerians out of this cancer called corruption, and when we have learned to behave in public office as trustworthy officers, then the civilians can come back.


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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2003, 01:00:36 AM »
Buhari and Idiagbon bought in discipline and totalitarian rule to Nigeria, but they also started the decline of the country.

In 1983 the skills flight from the shores of Nigeria started, professionals Nigerian trained in Nigerian University emigrated to Europe and Americas.

 Their repression and incompetent economic management destroyed investor confidence and growing Nigerian middle class, the engine of any developing or developed economy.

It was the return of the military in the guise of Buhari/Idiagbon that started the cycle of incompetent military rule. Ironsi, Gowon, Mutrala Mohammed, and OBJ (1976- 1979 ) where all military leaders but not as corrupt and incompetent as the new breed of Buhari, IBB, Abacha and Abubakar.

Corruption is not the sole problem in Nigeria, but diversity of the economic production what does Nigeria as a whole produce to sustain a population of 150 million people….. Nothing, I repeat nothing.

White men produce the oil, we black African produce nothing.

The problems are not Yoruba, Hausa, Igbo or even the army but black African in general are mentally lazy.

For example 70% of all diamond is mined in African countries like Sierra Leone, Liberia, Congo DR, Bostwana, South Africa and even Nigeria. the middle men are usually Lebanese or Indian and the market is the Middle-East, Americas and Europe but guest where most of the wealth is made in diamond and gems in Belgian (Antwerp), Israel (Tel Aviv) India (Mumbai) and New York.      

India Generated profits of $8.2 billion last years in cutting and polishing diamond per year, India has no diamond mines they have all dried up 100 years ago, but they have  2500 companies involved in cutting, polishing and trading diamonds  for further reading the latest edition of  businessweek or visit their website on www.businessweek.com.

India has the same tribal, ethnic, religious and economic problems as Nigeria and they also have 5 times our population and generate export of only $55.2 billion a years  as against Nigeria’s $14-20 billion per years.

The difference is that more than 400 million India are involved in generate their export wealth in generic pharmaceutical drugs, software, diamond cutting, agro-industry and many more. While less than 2000 Nigerian are involved in producing all the oil in Nigeria.

How can any government be successful in Nigeria when the people are not productive, don't create jobs and don't pay tax.

Islam is not the answer please look at the failed Islamic state all over the world Sudan, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are a good example also note that the most successful Muslim countries Malaysia and Turkey have rejected the Arabic script, Sharia and islamic education for western  technology not at the expense of their valued Islamic religion but they have successfully separated religion from government.

The GDP of Saudi Arabia the largest oil producer is $100 billion while that of Singapore is $250 billion. Singapore has no mineral resources and I have not even mention Korea and Japan

My point is that Education and industry is the only salvation for the north and Nigeria at large. I agree there must be moral discipline and security for the people but this must not be at the expense of freedom of expression and industrial development.

Some of you have rightly suggested that the north have successfully ruled Nigeria for 38 out of the 42 years of independence, but have most of you failed to reliase that the South-West and South-East are in competition with each other and don’t see the North as a competition and why should they 38 years of Northern leaders and the north has fallen way behind south. The south-west has an education systems only second to South Africa and the south-east are surely catching up.

Even if Buhari become the new president of Nigeria and successfully stabilise Nigeria the real beneficiary would be the south go to any city in US or UK and you would see Nigerian working as doctor, engineers, lawyers, IT Consultant and businessmen this has given them a 40 years edge over the north. And they would be more favoured for jobs by foreign firms that have to select the best candidate for the jobs.

Solution

Invest in education and enforce education with women, stop teenage marriage immediately because the best teacher of a child is an educated mother.

Developed the agriculture and start agro-industry, don’t only grow millet and groundnut but industrialise its production and process, this would create jobs in the north and a new middle class.

Start mining the vast amount of mineral resources in the north such as gypsum, precious gems and Iron Ore let the south depend on our resources and expertise

Stop blaming the south for problem in the north; the root of all our problems is with the northern leaders that have successfully destroyed education and agriculture in the north. The north before colonisation were self-sufficient in food and traditional industry so what has happened.

Control the population explosion, we need quality children not quantity, there are only 6 million Jews in US yet they control more than 50% of US wealth.

Offline Ummulhuda

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2003, 08:10:14 AM »
Quote

Buhari and Idiagbon bought in discipline and totalitarian rule to Nigeria, but they also started the decline of the country.

In 1983 the skills flight from the shores of Nigeria started, professionals Nigerian trained in Nigerian University emigrated to Europe and Americas.

 Their repression and incompetent economic management destroyed investor confidence and growing Nigerian middle class, the engine of any developing or developed economy.

It was the return of the military in the guise of Buhari/Idiagbon that started the cycle of incompetent military rule. Ironsi, Gowon, Mutrala Mohammed, and OBJ (1976- 1979 ) where all military leaders but not as corrupt and incompetent as the new breed of Buhari, IBB, Abacha and Abubakar.

Corruption is not the sole problem in Nigeria, but diversity of the economic production what does Nigeria as a whole produce to sustain a population of 150 million people….. Nothing, I repeat nothing.

White men produce the oil, we black African produce nothing.

The problems are not Yoruba, Hausa, Igbo or even the army but black African in general are mentally lazy.

For example 70% of all diamond is mined in African countries like Sierra Leone, Liberia, Congo DR, Bostwana, South Africa and even Nigeria. the middle men are usually Lebanese or Indian and the market is the Middle-East, Americas and Europe but guest where most of the wealth is made in diamond and gems in Belgian (Antwerp), Israel (Tel Aviv) India (Mumbai) and New York. ? ? ?

India Generated profits of $8.2 billion last years in cutting and polishing diamond per year, India has no diamond mines they have all dried up 100 years ago, but they have ?2500 companies involved in cutting, polishing and trading diamonds ?for further reading the latest edition of ?businessweek or visit their website on www.businessweek.com.

India has the same tribal, ethnic, religious and economic problems as Nigeria and they also have 5 times our population and generate export of only $55.2 billion a years ?as against Nigeria’s $14-20 billion per years.

The difference is that more than 400 million India are involved in generate their export wealth in generic pharmaceutical drugs, software, diamond cutting, agro-industry and many more. While less than 2000 Nigerian are involved in producing all the oil in Nigeria.

How can any government be successful in Nigeria when the people are not productive, don't create jobs and don't pay tax.

Islam is not the answer please look at the failed Islamic state all over the world Sudan, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are a good example also note that the most successful Muslim countries Malaysia and Turkey have rejected the Arabic script, Sharia and islamic education for western ?technology not at the expense of their valued Islamic religion but they have successfully separated religion from government.

The GDP of Saudi Arabia the largest oil producer is $100 billion while that of Singapore is $250 billion. Singapore has no mineral resources and I have not even mention Korea and Japan

My point is that Education and industry is the only salvation for the north and Nigeria at large. I agree there must be moral discipline and security for the people but this must not be at the expense of freedom of expression and industrial development.

Some of you have rightly suggested that the north have successfully ruled Nigeria for 38 out of the 42 years of independence, but have most of you failed to reliase that the South-West and South-East are in competition with each other and don’t see the North as a competition and why should they 38 years of Northern leaders and the north has fallen way behind south. The south-west has an education systems only second to South Africa and the south-east are surely catching up.

Even if Buhari become the new president of Nigeria and successfully stabilise Nigeria the real beneficiary would be the south go to any city in US or UK and you would see Nigerian working as doctor, engineers, lawyers, IT Consultant and businessmen this has given them a 40 years edge over the north. And they would be more favoured for jobs by foreign firms that have to select the best candidate for the jobs.

Solution

Invest in education and enforce education with women, stop teenage marriage immediately because the best teacher of a child is an educated mother.

Developed the agriculture and start agro-industry, don’t only grow millet and groundnut but industrialise its production and process, this would create jobs in the north and a new middle class.

Start mining the vast amount of mineral resources in the north such as gypsum, precious gems and Iron Ore let the south depend on our resources and expertise

Stop blaming the south for problem in the north; the root of all our problems is with the northern leaders that have successfully destroyed education and agriculture in the north. The north before colonisation were self-sufficient in food and traditional industry so what has happened.

Control the population explosion, we need quality children not quantity, there are only 6 million Jews in US yet they control more than 50% of US wealth.



If my memory serves me right, Shagari's second tenure in office started 1st Oct 1983. Three months later, around Dec. It was terminated by the Buhari/Idiagbon coup. So B/I could not possibly be responsible for initiating the braindrain as you wrote, Newmember2, if 1983 was the year of the start of the brain drain, because they (B/I) assumed power at the end of the year.
I am not an economist and I don't know much about fiscal policies and their operations beyond the fact that if you increase interest rates in an economy, you hurt it. ?So I won't delve deep into your assertion of ?"Their repression and incompetent economic management destroyed investor confidence and growing Nigerian middle class, the engine of any developing or developed economy."

What I know was that by the time I.B.B overthrew the B/I regime, the rate of exchange of sterling pound to naira was around 40 pence to one naira, i.e. N2.50 to 1 sterling pound(and I'm quoting a 1986 figure because that was what I got when I was getting BTA at the bank that year). By June 1987, however, the rate of exchange at the black market was N10 to 1 sterling pound.
The point I am trying to get at is that Buhari, had nothing to do with the economic downfall of Nig. Also the probable reason for the professional braindrain has something to do with the world wide economic recession and the oil glut of the 80s.
Nigerians have never had it so good as in the 1970s decade when the Nigerian cash cow was being milked a seemingly ceaseless supply of oil revenue and the naira was stronger than the dollar.
So in the wake of the early 80s when the world headed into 'the winter of our discontent,' to quote Margaret Thatcher, and some Nigns. starting to feel the relative economic pinch, must have decided to emigrate. And let's be quite honest about emigration; it has always been a cherished dream of southern Nigerians to leave Nigerian soils for ever and they have been doing so since the 1950s without a bad economy as an excuse. ?
The fact that Ironsi, Murtala, Gowon and OBJ first time round were not as incompetent was because crude petroleum was generating such vast amounts of money for Nig. The naira was almost invincible in terms of fiscal strength. It was around N1.20 to 1 sterling pound in the mid seventies. You could get all the foreign products you wanted from supermartkets at affordable prices. The import substituted things that were manufactured in Nigeria were affordable to every one rich and poor.
The beginning of the demise of Nig. startedwith IBB who willingly played into the hands of the west (world bank) when he deliberately took a loan that we didn't need and agreed to the devaluation of the naira and the needless structural adjustment programs. Look at it this way, when we embarked on SAP, Nigeria was a million times better than it was today.
For your info, corruption is the bane of any economy. The diversity of a country's economy does not matter. If a nation is corrupt, the corruption eventually catches up with the economy. Haven't we seen a few examples of reputable American companies like enron who on the surface looked healthy but whose eventual bad debts and corupt practices caught up with them. How about Robert Maxwell, who played fast and loose with his employee's retirement benefits? He commited suicide in the end, and left his family to bear the shame of his actions and the ridicule of the world, not to mention a scrutiny from the IRS and the indictments that trailed his sons. STAMP OUT CORRUPTION then you can begin to talk of everlasting development.
For your info, Nigerians where ever they happen to be are some of the most intelligent ppl on this planet. Just check out the sort of things that Nigerians do when they are OUTSIDE Nigeria. We have world class doctors, engineers, Lawyers nobel Laureates. We even have a Nigerian who is ?now a naturalized Pole in Poland and he happens to politically represent his Polish community in ?his part of the province. I read this somewhere some time back and I was amazed. (It was in a special edition of Time Magazine on Europe in 1999). So pls stop thinking of the black man as incompetent. He is not. He just needs some one to breathe down his neck to make him perform or he needs an incentive in a land where hard work results in the ripe fruits of labour.
I think I just hit the nail on the head. In Nig. you can kill your self being honest and working diligently and at the end of it all kaine matsiya ci because you have nothing to show for it. ? ? ?

All you have said about other countries' achievements is within the grasp of the Nigerian to achieve, but his mind set must first be addressed and changed. We need law and order and accountability first and foremost and I still don't see how unless we vote back a military style leadership like the one under B/I. In the alternative, let'svote Buhari back into power. If there is a man capable of doing the job, it is he, what ever any one may say to the contrary.

Offline lionger

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2003, 03:50:02 PM »
umulhuda

There's a difference b/w a disciplinarian and a tyrant, and from all accounts Buhari was ?a tyrant. His 'war against indiscipline' though largely the brain child of Idiagbon very quickly became a war against journalists and political opponents. He said his govt. was an offshoot of Murtala/Obasanjo; it was not such thing. he used decrees 2 and 4 to jail Nigerians indefinitely, including two Guardian reporters. He also jailed many southern politicians including a 70-yr-old Ajasin who had already been exonerated by several inquiries. He even said the UPN governors in jail had confessed to corruption, yet they had not been interviewed!
Buhari has to accept part of the blame for the start of the brain-drain, as the NSO was jailinng university teachers. Many Nigerians were relieved when Abacha announced his ouster on radio. If indeed you and other northerners liked his regime, it is probably because southerners suffered the most under his govt.

Furthermore, Buhari started the process of Nigeria's entry into the OIC (which, after completed bY IBB, led to the bloody Kafanchan riots and exacerbated religious tensions). Don't forget his alleged statement to enforce Sharia throughout Nigeria! Why should anyone vote for him?

Someone once told me that the hallmark by which northerners measure their politicians is their tyrannical qualities. I'm not sure if that theory holds any water, but tyranny is no solution to the present trouble. Military dictators did not help northerners when Nigeria was rich in the 70s, can they help now? Of all the dictators we had, we only got one Murtala Mohammed. Buhari was/is no reincarnated Murtala. Like I said b4, Ojukwu and Fawehinmi are the best of all 5 candidates running for the presidency rt. now.

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2003, 01:29:45 PM »
ya'll really type a lot.... :-/ ;D

personally.. from my perspective and experience.. and the people i interacted with from all parts of Africa... Africa has a bright future INCLUDING THE FULFULDE AND HAUSA... i strongly believe that... and insha Allah... we'll keep rockin' on till we're satisfied... ;D :D

i cant help it....i guess i'm juss an optimist... 8)
da Hunniez Gettin Money Playin Niggaz Like Dummy

Offline lionger

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2003, 03:17:48 PM »
Quote
ya'll really type a lot.... :-/ ;D

personally.. from my perspective and experience.. and the people i interacted with from all parts of Africa... Africa has a bright future INCLUDING THE FULFULDE AND HAUSA... i strongly believe that... and insha Allah... we'll keep rockin' on till we're satisfied... ;D :D

i cant help it....i guess i'm juss an optimist... 8)

hehe that's great FDQ  :). But optimism alone will not help Northern Nigeria or the country as a whole. God won't majically solve all our problems in a night, as I have painfully learned after the hugely dissappointing second coming of Obasanjo and democracy. We need to start getting our act together and fast! Do you agree with Shettima's view that the emirates have lost their relevance, and that the northern political elite are responsible for the relative 'backwardness' of the North? How do you think the problems of educational underdevelopment and poor health care can be solved? Do you agree with my proposed solution to the education problem?

Offline Ummulhuda

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Re: Hausa Fulani and Future..part II
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2003, 05:39:01 PM »
Oh Lionger your hatred of northern leaders is really warping your judgement! How on earth can you bring up Ojukwu and say he is one of the best ppl to rule Nig? If you just mentioned Gani, I might agree with you? But Ojukwu to rule Nigeria? When he was the instigator of the religious riots that led to the deaths of thousands in Kaduna state in the Feb 2000. Although of course i don't expect you will agree with me. But I'll tell you something in sha Allah, we will vote Buhari back to power and for your info, he was no tyrant.

 


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