Author Topic: What will you change about Nigeria?  (Read 30617 times)

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Offline HUSNAA

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2010, 06:13:50 PM »
Good posts everyone, but I go with what lionger and Dave said. No matter how much we may want to blame the West for our misfortunes, bottomline is, 99% of the fault lies at our feet. Granted the Western ways may have corrupted our morals, but fact is the difference btw doing what is right and what is wrong is very clear. If really we do copy everything from there, how come we fail/refuse to copy their type of good governance? Why do we only copy bad things? Was is it the West that forced your LG Chairman, State Governor and President to steal the treasury clean? Are we saying up till this moment we, as a nation, do not what's good for us, and what's bad?

Our failure as a nation is our responsibility, no one else's. Both leadership and followership of this country has failed in thier responsibility. The leaders for failing to provide the purposeful and selfless leadership needed for to steer the country towards economic development. The followership failed in resisting bad governance. We either collude with them, excuse them or are too passive to resist and insist for better. Worse, we compete with them in corrupt behaviours, forgetting that the most important contribution the common man can give to his/her nation is to abhor, shun and resist bad behaviours as may be exhibited by the leaders. Not follow suit, as is the case here.

Well I am surprised that u do actually believe that there is bad leadership in this country going by the way you see red when ever Shekarau's lack of leadership is alluded to.
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline HUSNAA

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #76 on: July 21, 2010, 06:19:14 PM »
But the question still is ......are you grown-up enough to run your own country and look after yourselves - or do other people still control you.
If that is so, fifty years after independence, that is shameful.

Nigeria will remain in a mess until Nigeria takes full responsibility for Nigeria's problems and Nigeria's failures.

Well arm chair critic, I am taking umbrage at yr tone. Behave urself  Mai Gemu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2010, 09:19:27 PM »
I always behave myself nowadays. Too old sadly to do otherwise.
And the beard is now white. Is that "farin gemu"?
maigemu

Offline Muhsin

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2010, 12:33:22 PM »
Hey,

It has been quite sometimes I wanted to make a reply to this, or particularly Husnaa’s lengthy reply and the replies it calls forth in this thread. Let me jam the gun, as they say, by, from the onset, stating (that) I am 50/50% with both sides—those who view the cause(s) of our persisting and festering problem is we Nigerians, and no one else’; and those (or Husnaa alone) who sees the West or Western countries as the root cause of our problem. Each argument is but based, reasonable and justifiable; though the latter is veiled with unstated reality while the former is explicit.

Let us examine both cases carefully:

I feel it’s rather pertinent by preamble to state how 20th century Africa is categorized by Horace Campbell (2010). He divides that into 5 sequential categories, according to the occurrences of the events:

●Traditions of enslavement, colonization and partition
● 1900-1925 Unfinished partitioning and war
●1925-1945 Depression and war
●1950-1975 Decolonization and independence
●1975-2000 Anti-apartheid victories

(The scope of the issue being discussed is expanded because Nigeria accounts for over half of West Africa's population).

I beseech you to look at the aforementioned, reflect back and ponder the present. I know one shall understand that whatever Western nations are accused of doing or masterminding concerning Africa’s affair is nothing surprising or unbelievable. They had us for virtually a whole century, so to speak. They still have us to some extent, as outlined Husnaa.

More-over, look at the interlocking crisis that bedeviled Africa ranging from religious, democracy, capitalist (recession and depression), energy, name the rest. That reminds me of the famous words of Desmond Tutu that West “condemns Africa to incineration”.

For a typical example: Niger Delta militants are apparently sponsored by “interested foreign parties”; our crude oil is still refined in foreign shores; our leaders do solely rely on what their mentors tell them to do from outside, for e.g. number of barrel to produce per day; even the country in spite of all the monies it has in treasury still go to foreign banks for loan, etc. West remain a puppeteer of our many internal matters.

Yet (a big yet!), all these notwithstanding, we can (and ought to) fight against that foreign force. Resist the pressure, push back as practically done by many countries. For a typical example: the South Africa of today. No-one would dare trying comparing that wonderful country with Nigeria. Why? That’s where the reasonableness of the other contention lies. We are, from this perspective, if not the constructors, the re-constructors of those problems.

Nigeria is an exceptional country in Africa, and its problem matchless. The country is endowed with virtually everything any country would hope for for it to strive and develop; yet it is confounded with problems that no country would hope for for it could lead to its death. Undeniably all that we lack is good leadership. Our leaders are only after enriching themselves, their kith and kin and nobody else. Their interest first, everything not even next but last.

Unless and until we have good leaders who are able to resist western influence and can render selfless, honest and dedicated service for their fatherland we will remain where we are, if not worsen.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2010, 03:53:15 PM »
Good post. Leadership is the key.

The most enduring legacy of colonialism is the disadvantages most African nations suffer as a result of being artificial constructs put together as "countries" for the convenience of the colonising power.
Thus Nigeria, which is a huge area of West Africa with many different nations inhabiting their own space in it, was arbitrarily knocked toether to facilitate British trade.
Only a very strong determination to understand and respect each others differences, whether they be tribal or religious, can make such a construct work. There has been a sad lack of such determination on many occasions and Islam and Chistianity, two religions, both honouring the same God, both drawn from the same testament and both apparently based on peace, charity and mutual respect, have been regularly used as the fuel in brutal and murderous behaviour in many parts of the Federation.

The setting up of multi-faith, multi-tribal Nigeria as a secular state was the only sensible way to set it on its way to Independence.
But even today there are those who are so blinded by religious intolerance that they cannot see this.
maigemu

Offline bakangizo

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #80 on: July 26, 2010, 04:44:55 PM »
Well I am surprised that u do actually believe that there is bad leadership in this country going by the way you see red when ever Shekarau's lack of leadership is alluded to.

How many times do you dream of Shekarau per day? You are intoxicated by and abnormally sensitive to him, finding ways to always relate issues to him. This is a topic about the general leadership situation in the country, not any particular leader, yet you must mention him. Talk about cyber-stalking. ::) Careful, they say it's a thin line between hate and love!

You would want everyone here to believe that the sun rises from out of Buhari's a@*e, yet no one cares to pick up your posts on issues and link to him. Get off it. Ba girman ki bane.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 05:16:30 PM by bakangizo »

Offline gogannaka

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2010, 11:24:37 AM »
Nice post Muhsin.

I fail to understand who is more corrupt in Nigeria.
The leaders or the masses.
When you take your tire to the vulcanizer,he will steal your valve cover.
When you buy fuel the attendants will cheat you( in some countries there are no attendants,you buy and take the money inside)
When you go to the market the trader will swindle you.
When you enter public transport the conductor will not give you your change until you insist.
Surely after suffering comes enjoyment

Offline Suleman

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2010, 01:30:34 PM »
Nice post Muhsin.

I fail to understand who is more corrupt in Nigeria.
The leaders or the masses.
When you take your tire to the vulcanizer,he will steal your valve cover.
When you buy fuel the attendants will cheat you( in some countries there are no attendants,you buy and take the money inside)
When you go to the market the trader will swindle you.
When you enter public transport the conductor will not give you your change until you insist.


This is a no brainer. The leadership rot must have fuelled the decay in society. I mentioned earlier at the begining of this thread that 10/20 years ago, the rot that we see in our society today was not evident; not in its current magnitude. My theory goes that corrupt leadership resulted in poorly funded institutions (e.g the police) which then meant that they were ill equiped to fight crime. That just meant that the vulcanizer that you claim steals his clients property knows fully well that the police are incapable of dispensing justice and therefore he is very free to do what he wants with very little repercursions. The other law abiding citizens will see no benefit in following law and order which results in more people towing the line of 'do what you want with no consequences'. In the end people get used to doing the wrong thing that it seems odd for anyone to be seen to be doing the right thing.
Ba banza ba fa Allah ya saukar da hukunci ga wasu ire iren laifuffuka such as sata, kisan kai, etc. It may not reverse the action but it will deter others who might consider it at some point.
Allah ya kyauta.

Offline bakangizo

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2010, 04:09:04 PM »
Somehow a bit like the chicken-egg mystery here  ;D  Who started it first? Was it the leadership that messed up the nigerian people or the people got corrupted and then gave birth to the present crop of leaders? Who's responsible for the mess, or put differently, who should be responsible for correcting the wrong? The masses or the leadership? Can we trust the leadership in Nigeria to just change itself for the better?

Offline lionger

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2010, 06:28:37 PM »
Quote
Somehow a bit like the chicken-egg mystery here Who started it first? Was it the leadership that messed up the nigerian people or the people got corrupted and then gave birth to the present crop of leaders? Who's responsible for the mess, or put differently, who should be responsible for correcting the wrong? The masses or the leadership? Can we trust the leadership in Nigeria to just change itself for the better?

Well unless we really think our leaders fell from heaven, I think its pretty clear where the 'source' is.  I don't know how old Suleman is, but the claim that societal corruption was 'not as evident' 10/20 years ago is very shaly indeed. I already pointed out that Nigeria had already distinguished itself as one of the most corrupt nations in the world by the mid-90s. Now here is some documented evidence from an article written by Anthony Ebeh in 1994, which has been quoted by other scholars writing about corruption in Nigeria:

"In Nigeria corruption has grown alarmingly over the past two decades. During late colonial rule and the period of the first republic, corruption ran rampant first at the local and then at the regional and federal levels. It was perhaps most serious in the cocoa-rich Western region, where investigators found that the activities of a small clique of ruling-party politicians and businessmen had drained the Region's Marketing Board of more than 10 million naira, essentially bankrupting it in seven years. (One naira at that time was equivalent to approximately $1.35.) Throughout that period, government contracts, purchases, and loan programs were systematically manipulated to enrich political officials and the politically well connected."

I have have it in mind to post the entire artice if I can find it, just so that Suleman can be without a doubt that the problem of corruption did not suddenly creep up on us recently, but has been an every present concern as long as Nigeria has existed. This snippet that I have posted describes the explosion of corruption in Nigeria in its nascent stage. If we go back far enough into precolonial days, we will also find corrupt practices to be the norm of life - except that those complaining were of course not the Africans themselves, but European traders and explorers who were trying to set up trading relationships with them. It is wrong to claim that today's leaders are the primary cause of a problem that goes back long before their time.

As I said before, corrupt practises have existed within all cultures in the world from time immemorial, and in previous ages they were probably necessary for survival. But in this present age of post-industrial capitalism, such practises are deleterious to effective socio-economic growth. The solution as shown by countries like Singapore is strong, visioned leadership which will take the tough steps necessary in curbing corruption to manageable levels, as exists in the advanced nations.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2010, 09:58:07 PM »
Indeed, Lionger.

I came to Nigeria in 1972 and worked mainly in Government Service in Education until the mid eighties.
I remember my shock at finding I had to pay a bribe to even get my NEPA bill. If I didn't pay a bribe I didnt get the bill and therefore I couldn't pay it. When I didn't pay it my meter was taken away and sold to someone else and I had to pay a bribe to get another meter back. Instead I went to the Police Commissioner and I soon had a meter again. But most ordinary Nigerians wouldn't have been able to do that.
I remember an Asian man who appeared to have murdered his wife in Fagge. It cost him a couple of hundred Naira to avoid investigation.
There were many Nigerian leaders with so much sterling and dollar money in UK banks in the 1970s and 1980s that they were in a position to seriously destablise the value of the pound sterling.
I am very proud to say I never paid a bribe in fifteen years in Nigeria though I ended up several times in Police stations and having guns waved in front of me
maigemu

Offline Suleman

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2010, 04:29:50 PM »
Lionger

Corruption is an attribute of mankind and all it needs is a conducive environment for it to rear its ugly head. I have never heard of a 'corrupt free' nation; as a matter of fact it does not exist. The parameters that fuel corruption include (but not limited to) lack of repercursions/consequences as I have noted earlier. Who manages these instiutions that mete out justice? Your guess is as good as mine. The fact that Nigerians and indeed every human being on earth is prone to corruption is not the issue; the issue is containing corruption and dealing with it, which you will agree with me needs organisation and hence the important role that the leadership plays. That is what has failed because you cannot take out the corruption in human beings in my view. Corruption is only but a survival instinct carried too far.
Secondly, in your previous postings, you have mentioned the successes achieved by countries such as Singapore and the rest but I want to point out something about historical facts of movements that have changed people and Nations. I have not come across any successfull movement that was not led by an able, resolute, selfless and focused leader. 'Ka tuna fa in Allah ya so ya ceci al umma sai ya aiko musu da manzo'. Not that God in his infinite ability cannot change their hearts overnight.
Lastly I want to believe from your comments, that corruption has been as bad today as it was 10/20 years ago. Well I do not remember, in the 90's, buying fuel at a petrol station and the attendant stealing my change, as being the norm rather than the exception. Neither was it so rampant, the case of 'pass for favours', in our educational institutions. The argument is about the scale of corruption in the society and I maintain that in the last 10/20 years 'the exception then, has become the norm now', indicating a deterioration of our situation.

Offline Dave_McEwan_Hill

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2010, 05:02:43 PM »
Again it comes round to a basic, central fact. You cannot have an incorrupt society (  or a society in which corruption is kept to managebale levels -correct, Suleman) without incorrupt leadership. All leaders should be "squeaky clean" as they describe it in the developed nations.
maigemu

Offline lionger

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #88 on: July 28, 2010, 10:39:15 PM »
Quote
Corruption is an attribute of mankind and all it needs is a conducive environment for it to rear its ugly head. I have never heard of a 'corrupt free' nation; as a matter of fact it does not exist. The parameters that fuel corruption include (but not limited to) lack of repercursions/consequences as I have noted earlier. Who manages these instiutions that mete out justice? Your guess is as good as mine. The fact that Nigerians and indeed every human being on earth is prone to corruption is not the issue; the issue is containing corruption and dealing with it, which you will agree with me needs organisation and hence the important role that the leadership plays. That is what has failed because you cannot take out the corruption in human beings in my view. Corruption is only but a survival instinct carried too far.
Can accept this, ok. I said as much in my own posts.

Quote
Secondly, in your previous postings, you have mentioned the successes achieved by countries such as Singapore and the rest but I want to point out something about historical facts of movements that have changed people and Nations. I have not come across any successfull movement that was not led by an able, resolute, selfless and focused leader. 'Ka tuna fa in Allah ya so ya ceci al umma sai ya aiko musu da manzo'. Not that God in his infinite ability cannot change their hearts overnight.

Very true! My concern about Nigeria is that as presently constituted, such people will hardly ever smell the corridors of power.

Quote
Lastly I want to believe from your comments, that corruption has been as bad today as it was 10/20 years ago. Well I do not remember, in the 90's, buying fuel at a petrol station and the attendant stealing my change, as being the norm rather than the exception. Neither was it so rampant, the case of 'pass for favours', in our educational institutions. The argument is about the scale of corruption in the society and I maintain that in the last 10/20 years 'the exception then, has become the norm now', indicating a deterioration of our situation.

Your personal experience notwwithstanding, it is ridiculous to assert that, as far as corruption in Nigeria goes, the norm now was the exception 20 years ago, at a time when observers had already noted that corruption had 'penetrated virtually every agency in the [Nigerian] public sector" (Ebeh, 1994). Since this was demonstrably the case 20 years ago, arguments about the 'scale' of corruption then as opposed to now is at best a moot academic exercise, and at worst, indicates that one has not quite come to terms with the true extent of the problem. Corruption has been a big problem since independence days and until now no-noe has done anything about it.

Offline Suleman

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Re: What will you change about Nigeria?
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2010, 01:22:34 PM »
I have always advocated for single tenure for our elected executives, although the timing of the constitutional change in 2006 was mischieveous, I think now is a perfect time to resurrect that change. Going forward, all governors and the president should serve a 1 year single tenure of 5 years. That will go a long way in curbing this zoning agitation in addition to encouraging greater competition all timeround as contestants could plan for a post at anytime without having to wait for the incumbent to declare.   

 


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