AMIDST THE CONFUSION,( diversity of thought )

[Hafsy_Lady]

SO WAZIRI WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY YOU BELIEVE IN GOD AND MAQARI BELIEVES NOT!!, OR RATHER HE BELIEVES IN A NON EXISTANCE GOD? ?WELL AM NOT JUMPING INTO CONCLUSION BEFORE YOU SAY THAT BUT THATS WHAT YOUR STATEMENT CLEARLY PORTRAYS:-/

THE TWO OF YOU, NA WUNA SABI!!!!! ?::)

[Anonymous]

Uhm, this gel not lady, you can say what you want to say, but Waziri did not say that. It was MaQari who said that  himself. If you had followed the thread carefully you would have seen it clearly. That is even clearer than anything in this debate.....Though you said yourself that Waziri is your playmate. I hope I am not coming in between you two by this comment. But I hope Waziri is not getting this treatment cos of his refusal to comply with your playing proposals ;D ;D ;D NA YOU TWO SABI

[Muhammad]

Salam
maQari you seem to be second guessing Islam. I mean to say you are born a Muslim but now ah......................... is somewhat dismisssive. And we know one can never be dismissive of Islam.
I hope i did not misrepresent your views.
take care.

[Maqari]

Amin
 How is ATL treating you bro ? i hope all is as desired, i finish my course in Paris friday , and will be ( Insha'Allah) back in New York, on tuesday the 30th let me know if you guys are still down to have a reunion soon, and let me know the logisticS.

( i repeatedly announced that i do not favor the discussion of religion )
but as of your question: "dismissive" is not what i will particularly term my stand point ,  being dismissive only causes one to process data poorly,thus construct poor theories and analogies something i detest with a passion and make enermous efforts to avoid , "second guessing" does not quite describe it either, for to second guess one has to first guess , and guesses IN GENERAL are only affective in betting on horse races and the likes, most definately not when discussing  methods , principals, or religious beliefs, instead all i do is compose analogies( as precise as my knowledge of the matter at hand allows) examine intellectual evidence sharpen my prespectives and dicuss, if you can find a collective description for the above you'll then have your answear.but the subject of this thread reads "amidst the confusion"
___________________________________________________
Waziri  
   How are duties and obligations ? i hope you are accomplishing much in these hazy days, i had to make a lot of travel plans and arrangements for my return to the states, this resulted in the late response , hence allow me now to dive directly into the streams of the conversation,

"You, by now, must have noticed, from the forgoing, how we have succesfully proved that all the ideas you are harbouring can not claim any originality to yourself alone. They are as old as history itself."

the only thing we have "successfully proved "so far is the fact that ( 1 ) we either traverse on radically different routes  in this conversation or ( 2 ) we differ greatly in the pace of thought,

"all the ideas you are harbouring can not claim any originality to yourself alone. They are as old as history itself."

im the only entity responsible for the final shape of my ideas, yet its true that many past thoughts and theories supplied a profound material aid to the composition of these ideas , but such is the nature of evolution ,no one living organism ever evolves mentally in total solitary, nor will there EVER be one ,
i regard what you said above as a " category error" something as common in our society as the flu, and almost as deadly ,come to think of it they even unite in certain symptoms and caracteristis such as the ability to easily spread,  your statement shares similarities with the case of an 8 year old who is on a class trip to Washington to visit the seat of the government, after visiting the parliament, the senetors assembly the white house and the supreme court, he will be puzzled and ask his teacher " but where is the government" unless the teacher explains to the pupil  that the collective activities and presence of those branches is what ( ideally )creates the final shape of a government, the pupil will be subjected to a ( category error )its a simple principal.

"You see, MaQari, there has not been anything new on philosophy that got shattered in the last century or even before. If you say there were theories and advances in practical sciences and technology I agree with you. But in philosophy of social relation between man and the cosmos, nothing new ever came up. They were as documented right from time. You have those who believe in God as I do, those who do not, like Marx and Darwin and with their "very ancient" understanding of god as in the very old Sumerian religion and those who use their reason alone hoping to find god thru knowledge but ended up having faith in something klike you do. "

In subjects as diversed as philosophy, religion, psycology, or human behaviorral studies, accurancy is often un-provable,because the possibily of computing every view is close to that of taking an inventory of every sea-life, yet there are many fundamentals of beliefs that got shattered by scientific evidance , such as the idea that man has been a habitant of the earth from the get go,or the possibility of mosses physically splitting the red sea, however what i spoke of is the practical science and tech.and from my stand point psycho-biology provides the most accurate descriptions of behaviorral caracteristics,

"They were as documented right from time."

do meen "documented" in the respective commentary of human litriture ? and "right from time" is this time in the traditional Hawkings sence of time ? or just the clich? version of time as so commongly used daily ? just curious


"You my brother, how you all concluded your arguments by saying you too have belief not knowledge"

i will love for you to please pint point the location where i stated that i only have belief "NOT" knowledge,as a fair enough thinker this will stand directly in violation of my logic, what you failed to comprehend is : the order in which i arranged the two ( perhaps from poor communication skills on my part ) to have belief without knowledge or vise versa will be like to strive without morale,the two go together infinitum style, in my case often knowledge before beliefs,but the two trancend amalgamated in all forms and fashions

"You are not different from us. We believe in God which you think is traditional and you believe in what you said above which of course is traditional too. I will here conclude that it is in human nature to believe. I believe in God and you believe in something else. We all have faith and act by faith not knowledge alone. "

the tradition of logical thinking is an attire that i will proudly agree to wear, so yes you are right
yet i find it too simple of a task for one to just have faith in something without thoroughly inspecting it especially when one is conditioned to do so from the craddle, to have faith in God without questioning the provided description of his nature or ways to worship him is similar to one's saying " i know the number 2" but when asked to describe it he says its: "1 plus 1" , or "1 less than 3", this is accurate enough , but what i attempt to do is : study the nature of "PLUS" and "LESS" not just merely accept the results they help reach.

In conclusion i would like to state that from our few brief encounters in these forums u might've noticed that making vaig statements in arguments without providing counter-proposals is not something i cherish, i'd much prefer you to either introduce your ideas and logically explain them to the best of your abilities, or dissect mine so that we can reach a result through trial and error, not just continiously try to prove how old my ideas are while making references to books i've read before puberty, i reamain respectfull of your enthusiasm, ONE






 

[Waziri]

I am responding to this thread for two reasons only. One, you asked me to pin point where you confessed having faith not knowledge and here I quote:

plus its my belief that in this painfull process of human evolution great thinkers can never provide the definite answears to the "whys" and "hows" they can only leave patterns and threads for future thinkers to nourish opon, and further the human knowledge, im vibrantly aware that my stance is a highly hazardous one , even argurably unhealthy, but then my frieand , this is the crooked disfigured rock that GREATNESS is often carved from

Emphasis added

Your usage of the word belief above is what informed my conclusions. For belief is nothing more than a dogma like we ppl of faith in traditional "GOD" have.

Secondly, you accused me of being vaig in my presentations which is not substantiated in anyway. I was wondering how could one respond to such a charge?

You also found fun in describing me as eight year old. I don't know exactly what point that scores or what it has succeeded in proving so far? Why do I have to tread the path of lowliness from some one whose "intellectual curiosity" amazes you to fall into the description of an 8 yr old? I believe you can delve into the issue without belittling me.

I think this discourse has come too far. All I have tried doing ,within my shortcomings, is to prove to you and the discerning reader that your opinions are nothing new and they were haboured by ppl of the ancient times and as such the quality in them do not supersede those of ppl of faith in traditional "God". And their kind always lead ppl to to the traditional "God", as such it is better for one to
engage in something more fruitful than to waste his time trying to "question how others describe God", espicially when one CANNOT come up with more satisfactory explanations.

My above assertion will only be confirmed by the discerning reader who reads both what you say and what I say.

I think to resort to condenming what I do as vaig is not your solution. My position is clearer in this discourse.

I will continue to respond only when you make more sense.

Concerning Obligations and Duties, I for long suggested to you how you should appraoch the issue. Introducing it subtly and craftly will not pay off in any way.

[Maqari]

Waziri
Once again you have allowed your ego to gain total access and controll of your concious, which causes you to succumb to anger, your agressive approach clearly manifested it.
this lessens your chances of grasping your opponent's concepts let alone digest them , something i do not tolarate in a conversation, try approaching my sentences with reason rather than just emotional chaos, you will then discover that nothing of what i said above attacks your person,its unfortunate that my anology on ( category error ) stirs the feeling of discomfort within you, yet i still stand by it confidently,i find it purely pathetic that you ellude yourself by believing that my intentions  ware to degrade and humiliate you,i simply am much too occupied for cyber mind games, you should channel all that aggressive energy towards suppressing my views rather than letting it encapsulate your mind,"IN AN INTELLECTUAL COMBAT ONLY THE WOUNDED CAN FIGHT".
 its too easy to deem one's ideas old, didnt the Arabs call the Qur'an " ASADIYR-UL-AWWALIYN" ( olden folklore) thus your saying of this alone is as old as what you are trying to counter.
i do not want to go any further in this discussion, for one can not grow any plant with corrupted roots . Peace  
read......... read.............. read............. read........... read
                    and ..................think  

[Maqari]

Comrades !
 whats the verdict looks like we the forums are evolving faster than i thought possible , keep it up guys, Amin ( if you are still present ) im back in New York now if you are still intrested in putting together a gathering i'll be down , Lionger i see u are still active, big props, Waziri, still struggling with religious issues huh ? well whatever rocks your craddle bro, well i think thats about it , take it easy guys ONE

[Maqari]

just an afterthought,  whoever does the coding of kanoonline web site  could use an advice or two in programming , it really is very elementary ( no pun intended ) Waziri arent you a CS major or something of that nature ? why dont you lend them a helping hand ? they seem to terribly need it , peace ONE

[admin]

Assalamu alaikum;
Maqari,

As regards to the coding of kanoonline web site, can you please give me advice as to what you need changed, modified, corrected or deleted. Then I will go ahead and solicite advice on the programing issue. Also, being an artist that you are, I will like you to help us with some AfroCentric avatars for the site. Please make them .GIF, .JPG or .PNG, thanks in advance. BTW, I will also be in the US (North East) somtime next week lets see about the get together with Amin and others.

[Maqari]

Admin i sincerly render my apologies for not getting back to you earliar, i've been dealing with health problems since my return to the US,i dont know if you are still in the states or not, but if you are let me know where and for how long you are going to be present, i would try my best to link up at the very least via phone, i have a big loft in williamsburg brooklyn and you are welcome to stop by for a few days if you want, i dont know about the rest of the Nigerian cats in the forum, Amin didnt get back to me as of yet, Amin if you are reading this and are still intrested in the gathering hit me up on my PM box, i'll be going to  Miami Florida,  this month for a graffiti contest, i would be driving so if anybody wants to extend an invitation i really woldnt mind stopping by for a few hours, about the coding of Kanoonline , i really dont have the time to get involved with any of it now Admin , but i would be honored to help with the graphic design and imagery, drop me a PM and we can further discuss it , you can see my work at
www.mac-graffiti.net    its the website of my international crew of graphic renegades , i also have some works at :  www.daim.org/murals1.html  enjoy , PEACE

[admin]

Hello Maqari,

Right now I am in Jacksonville Florida and I too traveled by road not from Kano, Nigeria but form Newark, Delaware - just too route 95 South all the way. InShaAllah I plan to be somewhere between Central to North Jersey early next week and may come up the turnpike to NYC... maybe then will be a good time to see if we could get together... OK all KanoOnliners along the eastern seaboard of US let see if we could get together before out annual get together in Kano...

Also I checked the two websites showing some of work. Let me just simply say that I really think that your work is very impressive and look forward to you giving us (Kanoonline) a hand with some graphics...

[_Waziri_]

Oh interesting! I did not come this way for long. Yes, I am a measure in CS but if you really do not mean pun you can advice the admin without making refrence to me, not to even ask me as to how's religion.

Maqari your methodology is cagey, if not, how would you do something  and still accuse your opponent of being that thing? How in God's name do you want to me to respond to a charge of me being an eight year old? You will agree with me that this is not an issue you are raising but an exibition of an intention to ridicule.

No, your kind of personality attack is nothing new to me. I have been  an activist all my life. Nothing you would say can have the potential of geting me provoked.

When I reprimand and rebuke you it is because the kind of your deviation is unequalled in the history of our family. In fact the only part of this discourse which I find difficult to show your father and mother is the part which you confessed eating pork and no longer practicing Islam, I know they will not sleep and may continue to cry to eternity.

Usman Maqari, I wonder how you can gather the courage to tell people you want to engage in a sincere intellectual discourse. Usman how could you be bold enough to tell me to read, read, read and read again? Usman when did you read enough to have a new thought that you can compare to the reveletions sent down to Muhammad?

Perharps you do not perceive the person you are speaking to all along. Usman you are tall and fair in complexion. You were born 1978 and spent all your life within the confines of Zaria city before you left to Egypt in 1996 to read Arabic. You are the third son of Mallam Ahmad Maqari. Your father was brought to my family since when he was about ten to read. He grew up and saw our house as his school. Your briothers and sisters are hear always reminiscing and thinking for the day they will set you in their eyes again.

Usman I have never seen a person who responds more to his emotions than his reason as you do. How could you leave all of us here and carve for yourself a new identity and belief separate from the pride of our great ancestors? Remember you are not the first among us to have been to USA enough to discard all relations. Usman my heart bleeds and as an uncle to you I pray one day you would find meaning in looking towards our direction. If for nothing, that your mother may smile again and be glad that her beloved son is back again. Ibraheem, Saeed and other well wishers send their greetings and we all say we miss you. I pray you would have a rethink.

Affectionately yours

[Maqari]

LOL @ Waziri did you mean " Major" by measure,i'll show your post to Usman he will love it !,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Admin im sending you a PM with my number and Adress in it, are you on the east coast yet ? , if so give me a call i will arrange a meeting , i can bring along a CD with cdompies of my work for you to che3ck and pick images you would like me to donate to the site aight yo peace ONE .

[_Waziri_]

Yup, Usman I mean measure and I believe if you would start reflecting you will begin to believe am right. Remember words are tools and I am a poet (at the risk of sounding immodest).

But please could you tell me who made the following comments under our discourse on The Jews the other day?

i know many of us are aware of the infamous hausa termKUNAR BAKIN WAKEand the folklore behind it,i know in my heart that if some forces are to invade Zaria and start raping and murdering my sisters and mother i will voluntarily strap myself with explosives enter their territory and decombust, in understanding of a primitive human nature u will realise that any living organism will do whatever i stress

Is it Usman Maqari or the anonymous you? Remember Maqari is a very unique name in Zaria that is preserved only for that family. You must tell the truth and only that, for you know as well that prophets never tell lies unless if what you write above as your new religion contains lies and liers in it. Usman I have your dossier right before me including how you got into the states. Your story is a very good example that will feed the intellect of k-onliners and nourish their souls. But next time when you are making comments remember not to compare yourself with the prophet of Islam.

[gogannaka]

Is it Usman Maqari or the anonymous you? Remember Maqari is a very unique name in Zaria that is preserved only for that family. You must tell the truth and only that, for you know as well that prophets never tell lies unless if what you write above as your new religion contains lies and liers in it. Usman I have your dossier right before me including how you got into the states. Your story is a very good example that will feed the intellect of k-onliners and nourish their souls. But next time when you are making comments remember not to compare yourself with the prophet of Islam.

Tell us the strory Waz. The gossip section in the chit chat section can accomodate it i s'ppose :wink: