Author Topic: Obama: 'I'm not a Muslim, I'm against Hamas and Arabs, and I'll protect Jews'  (Read 32675 times)

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Offline GoodFella

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I once read Gogannaka saying he's afraid of this place big big grammar usage by its frequent visitors like... He talked true, exactly! Though, all the talks are very educative, historic and ...superb. Lets just read and leave.

Keep such coming!
Beginning today, treat everyone you meet as if he or she were going to be dead by midnight. Extend to them all the care, kindness, and understanding you can muster, and do so with no thought of any reward. Your life will never be the same again.
Og Mandino (Motivational Author & Speaker)

Offline King

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Because my sources are neither Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or of any religion. Wikipidia is a neutral source of information that reports history and events based on facts not bias. They allow the readership to draw their own conclusions based on the materials presented. This is how I found the pictures of the Grand Mufti actively colluding with the Grand Mufti to kill Jews. There are more pictures and materials, and many of these materials are present in German historical archives. I am also glad you did not attempt to spin this information. I have taken a look at your website, and no it didn't hurt me. What it contains is a lot of spin and propaganda which characterizes most Arab or Islamic website where Israel is concerned.
I just appreciate facts and truths about history, not fallacies, not distortions, and certainly not lies told repeatedly.

In the history of America, the part that relates to African Americans, you'll notice that some White people have hidden and distorted the true history of black people. They did this to promote a message of black inferiority and white superiority by telling falsehoods over and over again until those lies were not only accepted by white people, but by blacks as well. It took years to begin re-writing history and re-educating black people about the true knowledge of self and about their important African heritage. The damage from all those years of mental deprivation, racism, segregation, and negative propaganda has done its damage. Now, the Arabs are just as skilled as the so called imperialist. They twist everything and everything and present it to their people as truth, and by so doing the real truth is lost. My problem is, if everything is twisted and lies replace truth, then even in history we'll be lost as human beings.

Most Muslims go about with a mindset that Israel is an evil nation because they are occupying Palestinian  lands. Then that idea took a different turn after the state of Israel was established. Most Muslims never care to make objective and independent research into most issues. They simply swallow whatever the inciting leaders tell them.

A closer look at Husnna's claims that Ben Gourin was plotting with Hitler revealed FACTUALLY that it was in fact the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (a Muslim) that was meeting with Nazis and Fascists, and even recruiting other Muslims to fight alongside Hitlers Army. This same man met with Hitler, and Mussolini to plot the massacre of Jews. These are open book facts, and interestingly, this was all pre 1948 before there was any such thing as the Nation of Israel. So where does that leave the anti Israeli rhetorics and all the hate mongering because the excuse was always that the conflict was because Israel established a state on Palestinians land. Hogwash!!! Let the truth be told. Jesus said, "The truth shall set you free". Don't you want to be free?

Offline gogannaka

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Why doesn't anyone want Israel as a neighbor?
Surely after suffering comes enjoyment

Offline GoodFella

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The Jewish are the most terrible sort of people ever created, they know how to perpetuate every kind of trouble, killing of palastenians innocent souls, for example.
Beginning today, treat everyone you meet as if he or she were going to be dead by midnight. Extend to them all the care, kindness, and understanding you can muster, and do so with no thought of any reward. Your life will never be the same again.
Og Mandino (Motivational Author & Speaker)

Offline Jack Fulcher

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Thanks for the kind word, Dave.  Hope everything's going well for you.

I've decided to be modern and embellish my profile with stuff.  I need to find an appropriate picture - I'm not the easiest to look at, so maybe I'll upload a picture of my dog if I can find one on my hard drive.  It's a Westie, Dave!  I did put up my gender (duh!) and my flag (yea for the USA and all that, you know).  I'll have to get creative and come up with a saying for my signature (something from Voltaire or Jefferson or my mother...).

I do have a reaction to the rather intemperate statement of GoodFella, that the Jewish are terrible and perpetuate every kind of trouble, and of Gogannaka who asks why no one wants Israel as a neighbor.  It seems to me that Israel is not the country who has the destruction of a neighbor in her constitution.  Most of the surrounding countries do specify in their constitutions and laws that the destruction of Israel is a priority of the government.  Why should Israel take such countries seriously and engage in talks with them (e.g., the Hamas government) when one of their stated goals is her elimination?

As an aside, I'd like to commend this board and their web folks for the strides they have taken in making this much more user-friendly.  When I started writing here (2002?) it was impossible to use an apostrophe without getting some extraneous symbols inserted.

As for why doesn't anyone want to be their neighbors, I don't see that at all.  I might as well ask "why do the Arabs and others in the middle east have such an irrational reaction to the presence of Jews in their neighborhood?"  In the US, we have Jewish neighbors in most towns and have little problem.  In fact, one of the things I like about this place is that I really don't know what religion my neighbors have.  There's nothing in their front yard or in their mode of dress that would tell me.  In New York, the orthodox Jews wear clothing that will tell me, but outside of New York, that sort of thing is rare.

I think that in this country we just want our neighbors to be hard workers and neat - if they don't have a job or don't keep their house looking nice or don't clean their yard, we generally don't want them in our neighborhood.  Some Americans don't like all of the immigrants (both legal and illegal) who have moved there from Mexico or Central or South America, but many of us (including me) are happy to see them come because they really work hard.  The US is a capital exporting and labor importing country (some are the opposite - what is Nigeria?), so we need labor to come here and help build and maintain our buildings and machines.

The Israelis are also hard workers and industrious folks.  I know that some of the software companies with which we do business are in Israel.  In fact, they are also a capital exporting and labor importing country.  I would think that its neighbors would benefit from making peace with Israel and setting up a trading bloc similar to NAFTA or to the EU arrangements.  This way the country could invest in its neighbors' economies, build factories and use the local labor in the same way the US does with Mexico, benefitting both countries.  But this can't happen if there's no guarantee that the factories won't be attacked and the Israelis won't be killed.  I suspect that the Arab and other middle east leaders keep the pot stirred because it keeps them in power, which keeps money coming to their families.  Look at how much Arafat made while he was running the PLO!  He died a billionaire!  And what good did he do?  Thousands of Palestinians and Israelis died and there has been little or no progress on the peace talks or getting a separate Palestinian state.  J

Offline HUSNAA

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Because my sources are neither Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or of any religion. Wikipidia is a neutral source of information that reports history and events based on facts not bias. They allow the readership to draw their own conclusions based on the materials presented. This is how I found the pictures of the Grand Mufti actively colluding with the Grand Mufti to kill Jews. There are more pictures and materials, and many of these materials are present in German historical archives. I am also glad you did not attempt to spin this information. I have taken a look at your website, and no it didn't hurt me. What it contains is a lot of spin and propaganda which characterizes most Arab or Islamic website where Israel is concerned.
I just appreciate facts and truths about history, not fallacies, not distortions, and certainly not lies told repeatedly.

Wiki what???????????????????????
Wiki pedia? yr source of  NEUTRAL information... LMAO!!!!!
Come on King, you are in danger of sounding like a simpleton.. come on!! Have you never read their disclaimer notice??? Hahahaha well let me just paste a bit for yr public consumption:



Wikipedia is an online open-content collaborative encyclopedia, that is, a voluntary association of individuals and groups working to develop a common resource of human knowledge. The structure of the project allows anyone with an Internet connection to alter its content. Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

That is not to say that you will not find valuable and accurate information in Wikipedia; much of the time you will. However, [size=15pt]Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here. The content of any given article may recently have been changed, vandalized or altered by someone whose opinion does not correspond with the state of knowledge in the relevant fields[/size].

If you want to read more on their disclaimer notice, just scroll down a wikipedia page and you will find out just how reliable yr source of information is
At least I can vouch 100% on the reliability of my source, and what is more just incase u dont know, the most conscientious  ppl are God fearing ppl of what ever denomination or religious creed, which is something you cannot say about a public forum where any one is free to write up what he wishes, which is EXACTLY what Wikipedia is all about.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 04:54:59 PM by HUSNAA »
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline Muhsin

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At least I can vouch 100% on the reliability of my source, and what is more just incase u dont know, the most conscientious  ppl are God fearing ppl of what ever denomination or religious creed, which is something you cannot say about a public forum where any one is free to write up what he wishes, which is EXACTLY what Wikipedia is all about.

Sincerely speaking, I've been, for quite long time, wanting to say my words here. But afraid to be... :o :o :o just like what happened above. Think now its high time to have my words read because I, from every angles, have such right and chance. Sorry if my words anger anyone. Thats unintentional, wallahi.

Aunty Husnaa, am not correcting you 'cos I cannot, in any way. Just wanna say what I learned or rather heard from my GSP lecturer when talking about the authenticity and reliability of Internet brand information. He almost extensively made a great emphasy on Wikipedia, saying any info. found there is not considered genuine, atleast academically. Why? Ordinary visitor could add on (or edit, as they put it) anything he sees there. But thats was then but now, such access is denied. But though, this hasn't yet reclaimed the authenticity whcih the site claims to have. And could not.

You could, therefore, see where I bold the tenses you used above. The context/pragmatic meaning is there. Only the... ;D ;D ;D

Many thanks. Am always learning lots from what you and other intellectuals of this forum discuss. Keep the ball rolling.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline HUSNAA

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Read this Muhsin:


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This is Wikipedia.
All you need to do is register. Tell them  any bulls**t on the talk page, request unprotection, log in and s**t to ur heart's content.
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline Muhsin

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Oh...I didn't know. Semi-protected? That reveals everything, everything! Thanks Husnaa for your information.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline Jack Fulcher

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Since this is a thread about Barak Obama, here's an interesting NY Times editorial talking about him and Islam.  The basic premise is that he's still a Muslim under Shari'ah law, that he is thus an apostate (he's become a Christian), and his life is in danger because apostasy is a capital offense under the Shari'ah.  Can the smart people on this board comment on this article for me?  This even suggests that, if he were to visit an Islamic state, the security guards there would be under pressure because protecting him would be a sin.  Not sure this makes me feel safe with him in the White House (although, in truth, no one makes me feel especially safe anymore).  Here's the link: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

Offline King

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Jack, better authenticate your source. This link might be biased.  ;D  ;D

Offline HUSNAA

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Jack, better authenticate your source. This link might be biased.  ;D  ;D
Hmm.......... I am beginning to think that I might have to eat the words I wrote in another thread after all. This sarcasm is very reminiscent of Ete, New Ete, Sammy, Gaius and lord knows how many other pseudonyms 
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline bakangizo

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Jack, better authenticate your source. This link might be biased.  ;D  ;D
Hmm.......... I am beginning to think that I might have to eat the words I wrote in another thread after all. This sarcasm is very reminiscent of Ete, New Ete, Sammy, Gaius and lord knows how many other pseudonyms 

You know hajiya, I was about to reply to his posts then I say to myself 'why waste time'. For someone who would come and attempt to launder Jewish/Israeli atrocities, it would be foolish to even try and have meaningful debate with him/her.

Jack: The right wing American press would do anything to ensure Obama did not occupy the white house.

Offline HUSNAA

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Since this is a thread about Barak Obama, here's an interesting NY Times editorial talking about him and Islam.  The basic premise is that he's still a Muslim under Shari'ah law, that he is thus an apostate (he's become a Christian), and his life is in danger because apostasy is a capital offense under the Shari'ah.  Can the smart people on this board comment on this article for me?  This even suggests that, if he were to visit an Islamic state, the security guards there would be under pressure because protecting him would be a sin.  Not sure this makes me feel safe with him in the White House (although, in truth, no one makes me feel especially safe anymore).  Here's the link: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
Jack, I'm not sure if after you read the article you also read the hundreds of comments that the article generated and in which both Muslims and Christians alike condemned it as to put it mildly nonsensical. At any rate, I found two comments which might serve to answer yr query in case u just superficially went over the Obama issue for the sake of disseminating it to guage ppl's reaction on this board. Here goes:

How shameful of the editors to have printed this nonsense.

Under Islamic law a child cannot "apostate", nor is he held responsible for the religion in which he is raised. To suggest that any Muslims, let alone the ruling classes of Muslim states, would view Senator Obama's family history a "criminal" is baseless.

Some conservatives might shake their heads that a Muslim man would leave his 2 year old to be raised outside of the faith, but none of that judgement would fall on Senator Obama.

All this "editorial" accomplishes (with your help, grey lady) is to once again raise the Obama is a Muslim/ex-Muslim canard.

He never practiced Islam, was not Muslim upon entering adulthood and is therefore not considered a former Muslim by anyone (except islamophobes and the mainstream newspapers that publish them).

Ilyas L., NJ




#96 is exactly correct. A child follows the religion he/she is taught in the household (or not taught if the parents don't believe in religion) until they are mature enough to make their own choices. From what I have read of Obama's life story, his father essentially abandoned them while Obama was a small child and had no influence in his life (he wasn't a practicing muslim anyway). His mother didn't have strong beliefs in religion and was more of a spiritual seeker and humanist. So unless he made a conscious choice as an adult or near-adult to become a Muslim and later changed his mind, he cannot be classified as an apostate.

It is very strange that the supposedly learned writer does not understand (or want to understand) that obvious point and that the NY Times would print such a factually wrong piece that is designed to spread unwarranted doubt and confusion about Obama's religious background. It seems like this is from the neoconservative playbook: spread false rumors disguised as facts in leading publications and then refer to those articles as proof that there is something to be concerned with and should be investigated further.

Ahmed, Atlanta


And here is what some non muslims had to say about the article:

Mr. Luttwak has found a less repulsive and more fascinating way to keep the "he's some kind of Muslim" smear alive in the public mind.

After gladly wasting the nation of Iraq on the basis of what we, even back in 2003, suspected were lies, what do we care or know of what the Muslim countries think? They don't vote here. They barely have meaningful votes in their own countries. Lets see if we can figure out the serious policy changes from the "what you say to get elected" promises of these candidates so WE can vote. Enough with rumors, however cleverly packaged.

george, massachusetts

This is an odd article in many respects. It assumes a static and unified interpretation of Islamic law. This would be akin to assuming that Jews still employ capital punishment in connection to adultery and homosexuality as prescribed by the Old Testament. Or thinking that all Christians are Calvinists or embrace the mentality of the Catholic Church during he period of the Crusades. No doubt Mr. Luttwak's rather naive approach to the interpretation of Islamic law would be as offensive to many of the Islamic faith as Obama's "non-conversion" conversion experience as described by Mr. Luttwak.

Robert, NYC
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 04:52:20 PM by HUSNAA »
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline Jack Fulcher

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Husnaa, thank you for your response.  I read the article but didn't look at the comments.  It appears that these commenters think that if Obama had not become a Muslim as an adult, the apostasy punishment doesn't apply.  My wife points out that she's read stuff written by Luttwak and he's very biased and single minded, so she's not surprised he got it wrong.  This is interesting, as the NY Times is very pro-Obama (since Hillary isn't going to make it).  One of the comments (from Robert) says the article "assumes a static and unified interpretation of Islamic law."  Does this mean that in some areas he might be considered apostate?  It really doesn't make any sense, if so.  There must be one age where you must decide to be a Muslim, or reject it.  I think that's the idea behind the bar or bat mitzva in the Jewish faith.  I think that's about 12 or so.

Anyway, thank you for clearing this up for me.  I think I'll submit a letter to the Grey Lady.  There's enough to think about this election - we don't need this sort of thing making the decision harder.  Jack

 


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