Author Topic: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.  (Read 142133 times)

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Offline _Waziri_

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #90 on: March 10, 2009, 09:50:34 AM »
Lol dont take it too personally. Someone has to disagree with you some of the time. Furthermore disagreeing with you doesnt mean that one has a ready made solution or can come up with one immediately. You have never been divorced becos u have never been married and I have never been divorced either, so maybe both of us cant come up with a solution to a problem we have yet to experience.


No body is taking anything too personal except if you do. But the point is we are supposed to be making an informed disagreement not just a submission about religion that may come across as grossly rudimentary. There is an option of keeping quite if one cannot contribute to the progress of the idea or discourse.

Any serious thinking person knows that a way to solving problem can be found either by experience or research. This is known to all those who passed through a class in research methodology, and this I think any graduate can remember passing through such a class.

And it means that I or you do not have to necessarily experience divorce before we are able to give a prescriptive and informed solution to it according to our differing social places and societal index.

My first post on this thread indicated that I have done some research  about this subject as I said clearly how I once took a leave and attended to court proceedings relating to divorce cases where, as I said, I noticed 57 cases of marriage nullification in one week.

Even then you could have suggested that the committee or whatever that will be formed after this deliberation should seek out the opinion of divorced lots before coming up with a final blue print.

But this you didn't you are only around condemning what others say on half informed religious thought! You are simply contaminating the waters not for a purpose of drinking it!

If you don't have concern for the divorced lots out their some of us do. We also have sisters that are divorced.


 I pay the yearly house rent of one of my elder sisters, out of my meagre resources,  that runs into a over a N100,000 in order to keep her married, since she needs something to her standard. Also, I have alot of cousins whom I am looking for husbands for now and I want feel a little safe that they will be safe in the hands of their husbands.


This is what we are passing through everyday to a point of desperation. This is the significance in the story I told about my friend being told by a stranger about his unmarried daughter.

Yes people are this desperate that they can offer their daughters to strangers! Yes, they will be much frustrated when the strangers send the daughters packing after few months. Yes, we don't feel safe in this environment, this system and we need a little more guarantee.

If you are with us come, if you are not you are not compelled to comment. We can find allies elsewhere. But it is that we desire to be good to ourselves and those around us.

Waziri 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 10:08:22 AM by _Waziri_ »

Offline waduz

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2009, 08:29:15 AM »
Lol dont take it too personally. Someone has to disagree with you some of the time. Furthermore disagreeing with you doesnt mean that one has a ready made solution or can come up with one immediately. You have never been divorced becos u have never been married and I have never been divorced either, so maybe both of us cant come up with a solution to a problem we have yet to experience.


No body is taking anything too personal except if you do. But the point is we are supposed to be making an informed disagreement not just a submission about religion that may come across as grossly rudimentary. There is an option of keeping quite if one cannot contribute to the progress of the idea or discourse.

Any serious thinking person knows that a way to solving problem can be found either by experience or research. This is known to all those who passed through a class in research methodology, and this I think any graduate can remember passing through such a class.

And it means that I or you do not have to necessarily experience divorce before we are able to give a prescriptive and informed solution to it according to our differing social places and societal index.
My first post on this thread indicated that I have done some research  about this subject as I said clearly how I once took a leave and attended to court proceedings relating to divorce cases where, as I said, I noticed 57 cases of marriage nullification in one week.

Even then you could have suggested that the committee or whatever that will be formed after this deliberation should seek out the opinion of divorced lots before coming up with a final blue print.

But this you didn't you are only around condemning what others say on half informed religious thought! You are simply contaminating the waters not for a purpose of drinking it!

If you don't have concern for the divorced lots out their some of us do. We also have sisters that are divorced.


 I pay the yearly house rent of one of my elder sisters, out of my meagre resources,  that runs into a over a N100,000 in order to keep her married, since she needs something to her standard. Also, I have alot of cousins whom I am looking for husbands for now and I want feel a little safe that they will be safe in the hands of their husbands.


This is what we are passing through everyday to a point of desperation. This is the significance in the story I told about my friend being told by a stranger about his unmarried daughter.

Yes people are this desperate that they can offer their daughters to strangers! Yes, they will be much frustrated when the strangers send the daughters packing after few months. Yes, we don't feel safe in this environment, this system and we need a little more guarantee.

If you are with us come, if you are not you are not compelled to comment. We can find allies elsewhere. But it is that we desire to be good to ourselves and those around us.

Waziri 

Both of you have some points that are thought provocking. Waziri, if it is true that you have never experienced divorce because you were never married, then it is true that you are novice in that regards. The pains, tribulations that go with the breaking of marital affairs, have to be experienced by any one before he gives a good account of it, really. But generally, we are all inexperienced in the field, but have little experiences here and there concerning our close relations that are taking tolls on us. That is why we contribute what little knowledge we have about this very very important issue of whys, hows of bazawara and bazawari issues.
There so many disadvantages associated with divorce that ultimately makes a husband and wife becoming divrcees. The bitter experience, the pains of separation, the condition of the kids, traumatic and difficult life after divorce for both divorcees, make it an unwanted venture. Except, ofcourse, if it becomes very very necessary. The institution of marriage Islamically, is a big topic, infact so big, that its details are so enormous that a Hadith of the the Prophet said, "whoever gets married has fulfilled half of his religious obligations." It is therefore only fair, that an unmarried man or woman, has a lot waiting for him to achieve concerning marital affairs.
People wonder, why should I get married in the first place if it will later turn to become a divorce between us? When a man gets married to a woman they feel exceedingly happy with newly comsumated union. The activities lined up for the occassion, that is the parties, the pictures, the budan kais, the elegant dresses, the retinue well wishers and friends, the happiness of parents that their wards have been married and the high expectations that the couple will live happily and raise a good family, are sometimes dashed maliciously with one struck of the word of divorce.
The issues that lead to divorce among married couples could vary according to individual concerns. I have seen a situation where a marriage was dissolved by the husband after just two weeks. The reason given by the husband was that he thought the woman was never married before. To some this could be a flimsy excuse, since he was supposed to make the required inquiries before he even ventures into starting up a relationship. While some of critics of the woman thought that she should have been honest with him and told him the truth, right from the word go. The guy really suffered the most considering the elaborate arrangements he made. Of course, he lost everything, especially the love he earlier thought will blossom, but crashed right before him.
Naturally, humans were created differently. Some, with a lot of hindsight and tolerance. The easy going types who are always adaptive and understanding. While a great number are the selfish, ungrateful and nefarious lot. They behave myopically and display arrogance against fellows. The character and habits of a personality accounts mostly in the good or bad of a relationship. In our neighborhood there was a man who used to be very harsh to his wife. We always heard shouts and bangings coming from the house whenever they couple were fighting. One day the husbands pursued the wife outside on the street beating and kicking her until she ran into another house. What we later come to learn was the reason for the incessent quarrels will suprise you. The wife detest nothing in this world like regularly going to bed with the husband! Incredible!
Another reason why marriage relationships are randomly broken is the acute and crass lack of knowledge of the marriage by most people. These type of people just get married with the thinking of going to bed only in their minds. They do not bother to sit with the wife and adress key issues. They do not plan and set out guidelines on how to run the house. They do not read the Koran and Hadith to understand the teachings of the religion on how to forge a good matrimonial relationship.......................
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 10:30:34 AM by waduz »

Offline _Waziri_

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2009, 12:53:50 PM »

Both of you have some points that are thought provocking. Waziri, if it is true that you have never experienced divorce because you were never married, then it is true that you are novice in that regards.

Yes Waduz, you are right that I am a novice, something I have never denied. But then this discussing is not about me alone and I find it greatly hypocritical for someone to come out and insinuate that I want say all must agree with me. It is about people contributing to come up with something we can do as k-onliners. We share opinions here. There may be experienced people here. They may not. Even then why wont one ask that in our field work we should consult the experienced?

Why must somebody say I am against what God made Halal when in truth I never said such?  But still the person tries to get people against me by insinuating that I want my opinion go unquestioned when in reality the idea I talked about I said was from EMTL from the onset. Why I must I be made over???

Waziri

Offline waduz

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2009, 02:34:09 PM »
I can understand your predicament, waziri. But then you shouldn't take it harshly on yourself. Let us pray that when the time comes for your marriage we will all be gathered there by Allah SWT. After that, we can then begin to count the number of days, months and years of your married life! I will always pray that you remain married and never ever be a bazawari! ;D ;D ;D So ka gaggauta kiranmu daurin aurenka..................

Offline HUSNAA

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2009, 05:39:43 PM »

Both of you have some points that are thought provocking. Waziri, if it is true that you have never experienced divorce because you were never married, then it is true that you are novice in that regards.

Yes Waduz, you are right that I am a novice, something I have never denied. But then this discussing is not about me alone and I find it greatly hypocritical for someone to come out and insinuate that I want say all must agree with me. It is about people contributing to come up with something we can do as k-onliners. We share opinions here. There may be experienced people here. They may not. Even then why wont one ask that in our field work we should consult the experienced?

Why must somebody say I am against what God made Halal when in truth I never said such?  But still the person tries to get people against me by insinuating that I want my opinion go unquestioned when in reality the idea I talked about I said was from EMTL from the onset. Why I must I be made over???

Waziri

You know the problem with you Waziri? You are too full of yr own self importance, otherwise my comments shouldnt cause you this much angst and pain.
Ghafurallahi lana wa lakum

Offline EMTL

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2009, 10:04:41 AM »
Assalamu alaikum,
My Dear Brother (Waziri) and Sister (Husnaa) I think both of you have taken these issues beyond the limits.
Agreed we sometimes disagree- this is natural but we should remember that we are like a FAMILY here, though we rarely see and even have never seen each other. The fact is that we 'meet' almost every day and exchange good ideas- I must confess that almost on every visit I keep learning. I ADVISE EVERY ONE OF US TO OBSERVE SOME RESTRAINTS when ever some body disagree with our views, please.

Come to think of it, why do we even have divorces? it is because a couple disagree and one or both of them refuse to observe some restraints and then  before you know it.... somebody BECOMES Bazawara or Bazawari. The KNLIners should lead by example and in the course of our discourse members of this great family must never resort to name-calling, scorns, or flout an honest idea, etc.

The Issue of growing rates of divorce is a concern to every reasonable person- where we may differ is how to find plausible solution(s) to this problem.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 12:16:38 PM by EMTL »
In the Affairs of People Fear Allah (SWT). In the Matters Relating to Allah (SWT) Do not be Afraid of Anybody. Ibn Katthab (RA).

Offline _Waziri_

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2009, 03:47:17 PM »
I can understand your predicament, waziri. But then you shouldn't take it harshly on yourself. Let us pray that when the time comes for your marriage we will all be gathered there by Allah SWT. After that, we can then begin to count the number of days, months and years of your married life! I will always pray that you remain married and never ever be a bazawari! ;D ;D ;D So ka gaggauta kiranmu daurin aurenka..................

No worry not Waduz  I can simply relate to my limits in discourses. My wife is safe with me at my home and dealing with our private issues.

But public space is gender blind and as such a negative aggressive propaganda must be matched with a fully aggressive defense regardless of whether a woman or a man is doing it for the damage of public propaganda doesn't discriminate its source(male or female) when it strikes. That for the sake of posterity that is recording each event.

This goes to EMTL . Any of your sisters I come calling on be sure she  is safe with me as all in my nuclear and extended family are very safe with me as much as my friends.

But public issues are meant to be treated differently. I have to control this now for if I allowed her poisoned the mind of readers that I want to dominate the discussion we may end up getting nothing. The whole project would be crippled. Plus the fact that people will then start seeing me as one who opposes what God made Halal, dominate discussions or is full of his self importance.

Though it is possible she couldn't see the implication of what she is doing by attacking my person. But anyway we can make progress.

I'll try in my next logging to itemize what we discussed so far to see how we can make progress. Stay tuned. After all it was DB who appointed me the secretary of this Divorce Matters Commitee.  ;D ::) ;D :D

Waziri

Offline Dan-Borno

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2009, 05:20:39 PM »
aikinka yayi kyau secretary-general, you guys are not
been fair to my secretary gaskiya, you should allow him
do his work, after all many of you are running our from
this very important discussion which by the grace of
Allah will find a solution to it.

So, Mr. Secretary, do you have any idea of the strict laws
of divorce as adopted by the pakistani government? i
think we can come up with something like there on, any
material on that?
"My mama always used to tell me: 'If you can't find somethin' to live for, you best find somethin' to die for" - Tupak

Offline HUSNAA

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2009, 05:49:25 PM »
I can understand your predicament, waziri. But then you shouldn't take it harshly on yourself. Let us pray that when the time comes for your marriage we will all be gathered there by Allah SWT. After that, we can then begin to count the number of days, months and years of your married life! I will always pray that you remain married and never ever be a bazawari! ;D ;D ;D So ka gaggauta kiranmu daurin aurenka..................

But public issues are meant to be treated differently. I have to control this now for if I allowed her poisoned the mind of readers that I want to dominate the discussion we may end up getting nothing. The whole project would be crippled. Plus the fact that people will then start seeing me as one who opposes what God made Halal, dominate discussions or is full of his self importance.

Though it is possible she couldn't see the implication of what she is doing by attacking my person. But anyway we can make progress.


Waziri

Lol this is so amusing!!!! Hahahahahaha!! I havent been this entertained in a long time!!! ;D Keep it up Waz!!!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 05:50:56 PM by HUSNAA »
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Offline Muhsin

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #99 on: March 14, 2009, 12:32:04 PM »
Waziri, a novice? ???

Muhsin, a what? ::)

When I first started reading from the top of this page, I was shocked stiff. I said, undertone; what lead that very good and scholarly argument turned so sterile? LOL ;D I later found out that this is peacefully resolved at the tail end. This is K-Online. And these ppl are K-Onliners!  :D

Keep up the discussion.
Get to know [and remember] Allah in prosperity & He will know  [and remember] you in adversity.

Offline _Waziri_

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #100 on: March 15, 2009, 04:34:03 PM »
aikinka yayi kyau secretary-general, you guys are not
been fair to my secretary gaskiya, you should allow him
do his work, after all many of you are running our from
this very important discussion which by the grace of
Allah will find a solution to it.


Kyale su EMTL kawai DB we have an issue but instead they are trying to point to a man/woman who cannot make a good partner ::) ;D. Who tell them say I wan get a wife from internet? Infact I wouldn't advice anybody to judge a good wife/husband material from postings on the net. ;D ::) Let them cooperate with us and help impose on our society what will make couples  observe self restraint not just sit back from their comfortable chairs judging characters from mere internet postings.

Now on a more serious note, let us see how far this discussion has gone by itemizing its achievements this way:

1. There is a general agreement among ALL the contributors that the rampant occurrence of divorce in our society is becoming a social problem that is capable of undermining the essence of our existence as a culture, civilization and people of religion.


2
. In that light EMTL suggested elsewhere in this thread, http://kanoonline.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=ab15dc6f6122c614d96665ed9fa5244a&topic=4362.0, that:

"having identifed 'un-stable marriages' as being problem in kano, etc. can we start a massive campaign to solve this problem:

a. print some pharmplets (in hausa and ajami) highlithing the problems and solutions,
b. reaching out to religious leaders and encouraging them to dedicate say a month in Froiday sermons, etc, on the topic,
c. sponsoring adverts in, to start with, Radio stations?"

3. Having expressed my agreement with EMTL on this I suggested that the content of the pamphlets produced can also have a suggestion that a law be made that look deeper into the affairs of married couples in our society.

4. Dan-Borno added that a committee should be formed to deliberate on this law that should be made and submit to k-onliners and later to  the house of assemblies of all the 19 states governments.

This is where we are so far, but personally I feel we can achieve both getting a pamphlet published and spread across Northern Nigeria and having a functional committee that will look into the possibility of bringing out a working document to be presented for the 19 states assemblies.

What is on us, as I see it, is to decide on the content of the pamphlet and choose whether we can work with the commitee as constituted by Dan-Borno to look into the matter.

For me I am comfortable with Ummita chairing the committee if she can donate to us her precious time to the task. I also feel some two or more members be co-opted into the committee that we may be able to extend our coverage.

In this perhaps Hajiya Husnaa can work with us if she has the time and can revise her position and believe we can do something at our own level that posterity will give us credit for. Of course for the good of our people and society.


Waziri


« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 04:40:32 PM by _Waziri_ »

Offline HUSNAA

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #101 on: March 16, 2009, 04:48:16 AM »


In this perhaps Hajiya Husnaa can work with us if she has the time and can revise her position and believe we can do something at our own level that posterity will give us credit for. Of course for the good of our people and society.


Waziri




You mean agree with everything you say and write?  I prefer to work with ppl who will not hurl insults at me simply because I voice my own opinions.

Kai kuma DB, I call for a vote of NO CONFIDENCE on you bcos of yr monumental lack of judgement at appointing a TUZURU to chair a committee on divorce issues!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 04:53:32 AM by HUSNAA »
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Offline _Waziri_

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #102 on: March 16, 2009, 10:01:14 AM »

You mean agree with everything you say and write?  I prefer to work with ppl who will not hurl insults at me simply because I voice my own opinions.

Kai kuma DB, I call for a vote of NO CONFIDENCE on you bcos of yr monumental lack of judgement at appointing a TUZURU to chair a committee on divorce issues!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

To ai kaji tsiyan. I think it is evident from what I have itemized so far that I am not the only one talking, suggesting or making final conclusion. This is about people, k-onliners, NOT Waziri but why do you keep making it about myself only?

And for your opinions I am saying you should please present them in such a way they will add to the progress of the idea NOT just condemn what any of us may suggest without giving us an alternative route to follow for solving the problem. You shouldn't think you will be taken serious anywhere when you shoot ideas brought without bringing replacements. This is my issue with your opinion.

Also it is important to note that anything we are able to produce will only represent an effort to solving the problem not an actual solution. There people out there that will critique what we have, be it a pamphlet, or the document that will be debated in the house of assemblies, with the view of improving on them for better effect.

And finally, I am not a TUZURU shortened as TZ just like BZ is a short form of BAZAWARA and pluralised as BIZOZI, BIZINA or BIZAI as may required.

Majority of young men in Northern Nigeria now marry in their late 20s or early 30. I am glad I am still within the range. It is only that I have served the front of public commentary for long. Even then  I am not a qualified TZ in that regard.

Moreover Ummita is chairing the commitee not me. I am only the secretary with Muhsin as my able partner in the work. So stop scrolling and shine your eyes! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Waziri
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 10:11:19 AM by _Waziri_ »

Offline waduz

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #103 on: March 16, 2009, 10:15:55 AM »
It is looking like we are making a headway already! Now if I may advise the secreatary and his assistant, they should come up with an agenda to begin with. Or all members of the committee should be asked to volunteer one agenda each. In the meantime, I am happy to learn that oursecretary is ably married. He should not leave much of the work to his assistant who I think, is an able bachelor. ;D ;D. Before we proceed with the matter at hand, let us resolve to pursue this project harmoniously and courageously without putting any iota of sentiments in it. I believe, with the calibre of men and women here, we could achieve whatever we set out to, In Sha Allahu Rabbi.

Offline _Waziri_

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Re: BAZAWARA/BAZAWARI ISSUES.
« Reply #104 on: March 16, 2009, 10:53:06 AM »
It is looking like we are making a headway already! Now if I may advise the secreatary and his assistant, they should come up with an agenda to begin with. Or all members of the committee should be asked to volunteer one agenda each. In the meantime, I am happy to learn that oursecretary is ably married. He should not leave much of the work to his assistant who I think, is an able bachelor. ;D ;D. Before we proceed with the matter at hand, let us resolve to pursue this project harmoniously and courageously without putting any iota of sentiments in it. I believe, with the calibre of men and women here, we could achieve whatever we set out to, In Sha Allahu Rabbi.

Hey Waduz, I didn't say I am married but I say I am not a TZ that is someone who is long overdue for marriage. So the fact that I say I am not looking for an internet wife should not qualify you to kill my market at k-online ::) ::) ::). You know some miracle may happen ;) ;) :D ;D.

Anyway on the issue at hand. I think I did not get your suggestion very well that we should have an agenda for discussion. Could you elaborate please?

My thoughts earlier is we are yet to even decide whether to:

1. Pursue the publication of the pamphlets only;
2. Pursue the issue of forming a committee with the view of preparing a document for the state assemblies only;
3. Or do both.

As I said earlier that my opinion is we can do both. But I think we can have more of opinions on what should be done first before we proceed to anything.


Waziri

 


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